Experimental Update 1.10 (Changelog)

[thepoey 193]

1 hour ago, helpthedeadwalk said:

100% this. While cars are wonky they are highly dependent on the server config. An underpowered server overloaded with mods or players is only going to make it 10x worse. Unfortunately, most GSP aren't generously giving out dedicated servers, just oversubscribed VMs.

I understand what y'all are saying, but it's still not excusable, especially at this point in the game's life cycle.  

It's a core functionality and feature of the game. It should work, and it should be expected to work, especially on vanilla servers. It's not like console players or new players in general are given some kind of handbook before hopping into a car that explains "well this might work ok but if the server is overloaded, watch out, buddy!"

The time investment it takes to get a car going, coupled with the permadeath nature of this game, means getting into one shouldn't be a gamble that you might lose all of the progress you've made because of some unseen factors that are completely out of your control. Yes, posting a generic car video that's bouncing around is low effort, old, and annoying, because, yes, we get it, cars in DayZ aren't great, old news, but still, the underlying point remains. It shouldn't be a crap shoot, it should just work. Posting your own video saying "see it works sometimes!" doesn't matter; it's relative to the experience of the player. That it happens enough that you can easily find such videos is telling. 

Spending hours to get one working only to unexpectedly die because the car flies up into the air is the kind of thing that will turn someone off of this game forever. It's damaging to the long term health of this game, to the potential to expand and maintain its player base, and to long time players that have every reason to expect a stable experience when playing the base game. 

It doesn't matter why it happens, it doesn't matter what kind of work arounds we as players find to get around it, it only matters that it doesn't work as intended, and it shouldn't be that way.

Back when Eugen was on the team, I remember he used to always say something to the effect of, "We can only guarantee the base game", but even now, cars are still this x-factor that offer no such guarantee. Driving shouldn't be so wonky and risky just because "a lot of people are playing".

There's no excuse for it. There might be plenty of reasons for it. But it doesn't excuse it. And if vehicles can't work as intended nearly 100 percent of the time, frankly they shouldn't even be in the game. 

 

 

[Derleth 1357]

28 minutes ago, thepoey said:

I understand what y'all are saying, but it's still not excusable, especially at this point in the game's life cycle.  

It's a core functionality and feature of the game. It should work, and it should be expected to work, especially on vanilla servers. It's not like console players or new players in general are given some kind of handbook before hopping into a car that explains "well this might work ok but if the server is overloaded, watch out, buddy!"

The time investment it takes to get a car going, coupled with the permadeath nature of this game, means getting into one shouldn't be a gamble that you might lose all of the progress you've made because of some unseen factors that are completely out of your control. Yes, posting a generic car video that's bouncing around is low effort, old, and annoying, because, yes, we get it, cars in DayZ aren't great, old news, but still, the underlying point remains. It shouldn't be a crap shoot, it should just work. Posting your own video saying "see it works sometimes!" doesn't matter; it's relative to the experience of the player. That it happens enough that you can easily find such videos is telling. 

Spending hours to get one working only to unexpectedly die because the car flies up into the air is the kind of thing that will turn someone off of this game forever. It's damaging to the long term health of this game, to the potential to expand and maintain its player base, and to long time players that have every reason to expect a stable experience when playing the base game. 

It doesn't matter why it happens, it doesn't matter what kind of work arounds we as players find to get around it, it only matters that it doesn't work as intended, and it shouldn't be that way.

Back when Eugen was on the team, I remember he used to always say something to the effect of, "We can only guarantee the base game", but even now, cars are still this x-factor that offer no such guarantee. Driving shouldn't be so wonky and risky just because "a lot of people are playing".

There's no excuse for it. There might be plenty of reasons for it. But it doesn't excuse it. And if vehicles can't work as intended nearly 100 percent of the time, frankly they shouldn't even be in the game. 

 

We're not making excuses, just stating facts. I am of the opinion that as long as official servers are run on minimal specs (or too many instances per machine) they should simply reduce the maximum amount of players on them. That vehicles freak out at extreme server load is unavoidable when all the simulation calculations are server side, that's the corner DayZ has painted itself into. So, whatever the sweet spot is to have a minimum of lag and desync - and thereby reliable vehicles - on official servers that's the player ceiling they should set. (I know 60 is not it...). Either that or bite the bullet and put all official servers on dedicated servers - but that would probably mean the game would have to shift to paid subscription or drastically reduce the amount of servers available.

[SillyJoe 112]

Lets be real, the main problem is that the server side of DayZ is very poorly optimized!

Afaik most of the server calculations are done on a single core and that's why we see such a bad performance on most high/full pop servers (60+slots). The results are wonky/suicide cars, non-working AI, delayed player actions, desync and awful hitreg.

The devs need to put more work into the server side of DayZ or hire someone that is able to fix the problems at the server side of things! I haven't seen one server performance fix in any changelog since I've started to play DayZ on PS4 but for some reason we are still able rent community servers with up to 100 slots at Nitrado... 😮

Edited November 2, 2020 by SillyJoe

[thepoey 193]

2 hours ago, Derleth said:

We're not making excuses, just stating facts. I am of the opinion that as long as official servers are run on minimal specs (or too many instances per machine) they should simply reduce the maximum amount of players on them. That vehicles freak out at extreme server load is unavoidable when all the simulation calculations are server side, that's the corner DayZ has painted itself into. So, whatever the sweet spot is to have a minimum of lag and desync - and thereby reliable vehicles - on official servers that's the player ceiling they should set. (I know 60 is not it...). Either that or bite the bullet and put all official servers on dedicated servers - but that would probably mean the game would have to shift to paid subscription or drastically reduce the amount of servers available.

That's my point though. If that's what it takes to solve the problem, it needs to be done. Right now, it's just a patchwork half measures, and something has got to give. Keeping it as is can't just be the solution. 

[TheSzepy 34]

some videos of cars in action (no more then 5 people at once, private server on private HW, 2x Xeon E5-2640, 32 gigs of ram, SSD, nothing else running aside from DayZ, 15ms ping with no spikes)

yes, videos are from previous patches, but i already have a few shots from the 1.10 exp of cars still doing the same bullshit

 

Spoiler

(no, the first one isn’t a "serverlag"/desync, car is really doing this on serverside)

 

 

 

 

+ one of my favorites from my friend

 

 

you can find more of them in this playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8UJJHc2VaYhLGQYaM9uGcWoxzISJXSxj

so, if anyone tries to "defend" the car physics with server perfomance etc.., YOU’RE WRONG, the only true fact is that it was badly programmed/designed from the beggining

the video which joe scrub posted at the last page shows just desync, car isnt actually doing that on serverside

 

and yes, were running a "godmode" against kinetic damage for vehicles on our server(not sure if kinetic is the right word, basically you dont damage the vehicles by ramming/crashing), i’m tired of dying just beacuse studio which sold multiple millions copies of this game (5+) is not capable of programming atleast half-decent vehicle physics.

 

while i admit it’s kinda funny to witness what movement-creations cars are capable of, it is getting really annoying

Edited November 2, 2020 by TheSzepy

[FabianoMartins 6]

DESYNC absurdo... A cada evento uma coisa diferente. Não se consegue pegar objetos, colocar na mão ou remover do inventário...

 

DESYNC absurd ... At each event a different thing. You can't take objects, put them in your hand or remove them from your inventory ...

[lex__1 168]

1 hour ago, TheSzepy said:

some videos of cars in action (no more then 5 people at once, private server on private HW, 2x Xeon E5-2640, 32 gigs of ram, SSD, nothing else running aside from DayZ, 15ms ping with no spikes)

yes, videos are from previous patches, but i already have a few shots from the 1.10 exp of cars still doing the same bullshit

+1000%. But how beautiful it plays, with a high FPS))). I'll add something else. Large groups of players in the same location on the map, players 5+, will also reproduce problems, and not only with the car, inventory, kick players from the server, crash the game or any other problems.

[Derleth 1357]

26 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

+1000%. But how beautiful it plays, with a high FPS))). I'll add something else. Large groups of players in the same location on the map, players 5+, will also reproduce problems, and not only with the car, inventory, kick players from the server, crash the game or any other problems.

That is only true on weak servers though, I have taken part in events with 10-15+ players in the same area without any shenanigans whatsoever, with vehicles or anything else. Really, minimum system requirements for server files should be changed to reflect reality and official servers moved to adequate hardware, that's the only way forward at this time. If by some magic they can come up with server software that better utilises hardware potential that might change, but by all appearances that is simply never going to happen.

1 hour ago, TheSzepy said:

yes, videos are from previous patches, but i already have a few shots from the 1.10 exp of cars still doing the same bullshit

So you can show proof of what we already know - official servers are too weak. I was watching Sumrak (lead dev if anyone doesn't know) himself streaming exp the other night and while streaming the server started struggling and he lag-crashed their car. So it's not like the dev team are unaware, there's just not much that can be done about it apart from the obvious - stronger server hardware. If "2x Xeon E5-2640, 32 gigs of ram, SSD, nothing else running aside from DayZ, 15ms ping with no spikes" is what is needed for a decent server then that is what the servers need to run on, simple as that.

Now, they are working on improving car physics. Presumably what that means is they're trying to make the suspension simulation less sensitive to desync and server stutters. We'll see what happens, but for the time being the reality is if you want to drive in DayZ you need to stick to well performing servers. It sucks, but it's just the way it is.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Derleth

[lex__1 168]

13 minutes ago, Derleth said:

That is only true on weak servers though, I have taken part in events with 10-15+ players in the same area without any shenanigans whatsoever, with vehicles or anything else. Really, minimum system requirements for server files should be changed to reflect reality and official servers moved to adequate hardware, that's the only way forward at this time. If by some magic they can come up with server software that better utilises hardware potential that might change, but by all appearances that is simply never going to happen. 

There were also statements from the authors about Arma3 - "Arma3 will never be 64bit, it will never use more than 2500MB of RAM".
If you do not write about this problem, more than you want to write about this problem, then nothing will be for sure, everything will remain as it is now.

Edited November 2, 2020 by lex__1

[Derleth 1357]

22 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

There were also statements from the authors about Arma3 - "Arma3 will never be 64bit, it will never use more than 2500MB of RAM".
If you do not write about this problem, more than you want to write about this problem, then nothing will be for sure, everything will remain as it is now.

Well we are talking about it right now aren't we? I'm just getting sick of the memes about flying cars because they dodge the true issue. Yes, it happens that cars fly - and understanding the reason it happens is important so the underlying issues can be discussed in a sensible manner, instead of posting the 9511th reddit meme vid with a flying car.

Also, I know devs will not give any promises whatsoever at this point since they know what the backlash can be if they can't deliver, but progress by the Enfusion team will eventually trickle down to DayZ...

Edited November 2, 2020 by Derleth

[lex__1 168]

43 minutes ago, Derleth said:

Well we are talking about it right now aren't we? I'm just getting sick of the memes about flying cars because they dodge the true issue. Yes, it happens that cars fly - and understanding the reason it happens is important so the underlying issues can be discussed in a sensible manner, instead of posting the 9511th reddit meme vid with a flying car.

Also, I know devs will not give any promises whatsoever at this point since they know what the backlash can be if they can't deliver, but progress by the Enfusion team will eventually trickle down to DayZ... 

I have no doubt that they know about the problem. I have doubts that there is an approach to this issue. Most of the different problems caused by desynchronization on servers should at least cause the developer to respect the players in order to at least comment and explain things in this area. I'm just tired of reading some comments on the forum when making a suggestion on this problem - 'look for the best server'. But none of these writers represents how many players are looking for such servers.

Edited November 2, 2020 by lex__1

[Joe Scrub 37]

11 hours ago, Derleth said:

That video is from January so how is it relevant to 1.10 Experimental? The car starts jumping the second you get into it which means the server was running on single-digit frames, getting into a vehicle on such a server is suicide, we all know that already. That you kept driving can only mean you were out to get a memish video to make a point.

I can toss in "counter" video. It's long and boring and also from a previous patch, but by contrast shows how driving behaves on a healthy server (and with a little bit of alcohol involved).

 

It's relevant because they added a new vehicle this patch but server-side performance and the mechanics of vehicle simulation remain unchanged since then, so I expect to see more of it.
That's a nice video you have there, must have been an awfully healthy server, I'll have to find one of those to play on!

[TheSzepy 34]

2 hours ago, Derleth said:

So you can show proof of what we already know - official servers are too weak. 

Now, they are working on improving car physics. Presumably what that means is they're trying to make the suspension simulation less sensitive to desync and server stutters. We'll see what happens, but for the time being the reality is if you want to drive in DayZ you need to stick to well performing servers. It sucks, but it's just the way it is.

there might be another problem - netcode/engine/whatever is simply written so badly from the beggining that it’s just impossible to have more then 30+ players even on powerful servers without issues(atleast vehicles talking), only complete rewrite may fix this, which they wont do(atleast from my PoV as a programmer) considering the size of their team and the fact that the game is "released" for two years now

 

2 hours ago, lex__1 said:

+1000%. But how beautiful it plays, with a high FPS

yes, when it actually works, it looks/feels okay

from 0:55 to 1:15, you can see that when it works it looks really good/believable

Spoiler

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by TheSzepy

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

On 10/31/2020 at 2:25 PM, SillyJoe said:

@Dayz/Devs

We need network and server sided optimization. I can only speak for PS4 but almost any server above 60 slots does suffer from lag/rubber banding or general ultra bad performance when full pop.
Before you add new stuff you should rather look into the server performance/server side and spend your time optimizing it.

Btw are there any news about next gen consoles? Can we expect specific next gen performance patches/improvements?

game on next gen consoles is literally gonna be like running the game on a better PC ... it will obviously be better there's nothing special going on when current gen to next gen consoles... it's the same game that runs on better hardware that can actually support the game... i can tell you that DayZ on next gen consoles is gonna be AMAZING... and you will truly see how shit hardware current gen console have and what kind of horsepower you need to run DayZ properly... DayZ makes current gen consoles look like calculators

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

17 hours ago, Joe Scrub said:

 

This pretty well sums up vehicle experiences in Dayz playing on server with any pop above 10 players with base building.  It happens on 9TH and 10TH Generation i9 Intel Processors with 32 and 64 GB respectively only running DayZ.  We are at the point where after 8,000 hours into this game and running multiple servers, I am ready to give up.  The ONLY "LIFE" left of this game is NAMALSK.  If the devs can't won't fix the games lifeblood, then screw it, I'm not wasting my time, most of the hardcore DayZer's have left anyway, the few that are left are interested in seeing Namalsk become a reality.  I guarantee players will come back if cars would be a priority fix for the game including network optimisation.

Edited November 3, 2020 by THEGordonFreeman

[aaronlands 55]

So, does anyone have any thoughts on collecting bark?

Now with cold temperatures being more of a threat and fires more of a necessity I found it quite frustrating that I am not able to harvest bark from trees with a hatchet or axe.  I understand that there are reasons for keeping specializations between items limited (you do not want every item to be a multitool) but surely there must be some way to implement collecting bark with items other than a knife.  

 

[Derleth 1357]

24 minutes ago, aaronlands said:

So, does anyone have any thoughts on collecting bark?

Now with cold temperatures being more of a threat and fires more of a necessity I found it quite frustrating that I am not able to harvest bark from trees with a hatchet or axe.  I understand that there are reasons for keeping specializations between items limited (you do not want every item to be a multitool) but surely there must be some way to implement collecting bark with items other than a knife.  

 

Yeah if I can gut a chicken with a hatchet I expect to be able to carve some bark with it too. BUT - remember that rags also work fine as tinder.

[aaronlands 55]

3 hours ago, Derleth said:

Yeah if I can gut a chicken with a hatchet I expect to be able to carve some bark with it too. BUT - remember that rags also work fine as tinder.

I had the drill kit in mind when thinking about the ability to shave bark with a hatchet.  I've had moments where I hunted an animal but couldn't find a knife for ages in order to collect bark and some of meat went rotten.  

[Wedg3 2]

1 hour ago, aaronlands said:

I had the drill kit in mind when thinking about the ability to shave bark with a hatchet.  I've had moments where I hunted an animal but couldn't find a knife for ages in order to collect bark and some of meat went rotten.  

This.

Happend more often in the last weeks, i starved not long after spawning with meat in my backpack, because i couldn´t find a knife..

[William Sternritter 449]

4 minutes ago, Wedg3 said:

This.

Happend more often in the last weeks, i starved not long after spawning with meat in my backpack, because i couldn´t find a knife..

Knives are shit in this update, they break after a few uses. Look for a machete. 

[Tonyeh 454]

1 hour ago, aaronlands said:

I had the drill kit in mind when thinking about the ability to shave bark with a hatchet.  I've had moments where I hunted an animal but couldn't find a knife for ages in order to collect bark and some of meat went rotten.  

Cutting bark off of a tree shouldn't be limited to just knives. I don't even think that the machete can be used at the moment either ,which is kinda mad.

[lynn.zaw 252]

UPDATE 1.10.153537 (released on 03.11.2020)

FIXED

• Tanning leather was possible even when the pelt or garden lime were ruined
• Food was disappearing from a long wooden stick when dragging it to players shoulder
• Un-equipping an item before a melee attack animation was finished could cause desync of the hand slot
• The player was unable to respawn through the news respawn screen while being unconscious
• Shock from broken legs was not dealt properly when swimming or on ladders
• Fruits and mushrooms were not decaying over time
• The health of an item was not properly reflected in the food decay process
• Clothes could disappear after getting ruined when jumping out of a car
• Destroyed tent parts still looked pristine
• Certain airfield objects were glowing at night
• A Gunter 2 was spawning badly in the Svergino parking lot (Chernarus) - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T154702
• Text was overlapping or cut off in the tutorials screens in certain languages and resolutions

CHANGED

• Lowered the maximum energy buffer of the player
• Lowered the energy penalty in the lower warning cold state
• Increased the overall energy values of fruits, vegetables and mushrooms
• Shock now regenarates slowly when idle on a ladder or swimming with broken legs
• You can now open food cans with the Hand Saw
• Lowered the aggro rate of infected towards the Signal Pistol shooter
• Pepper, Potato, Tomato and Zucchini can now appear also in dried or rotten state
• Trees now drop long wooden sticks instead of small wooden sticks
• Reduced the damage to tools when mining bushes, splitting wood and stone
• Reduced damage to tools when sawing a wooden log
• Reduced damage to tools when cutting a pumpkin
• Increased the inventory size of Tarp

MODDING

• Tweaked: The delta modifier of food decay should be easier to mod now

 

[dallebull 48]

A note for upcoming updates: Zombies should Aggro towards smokes as they did in the mod, that gives you some control over them, and smokes can be use to lure zombies away from where you want to loot, giving you away to other players in the process. I think they did that in a previous update, not 100% tho. 

[William Sternritter 449]

2 minutes ago, dallebull said:

A note for upcoming updates: Zombies should Aggro towards smokes as they did in the mod, that gives you some control over them, and smokes can be use to lure zombies away from where you want to loot, giving you away to other players in the process. I think they did that in a previous update, not 100% tho. 

They did that already in 1.08. Smokes, road flares and light sticks, all attract the infected. 

[dallebull 48]

39 minutes ago, William Sternritter said:

They did that already in 1.08. Smokes, road flares and light sticks, all attract the infected. 

I gotta test on my server again then, when i tried they didn't react at all to smokes, but that's 1.09, and assumed that nothing changed since they haven't put anything in the patchnotes.