Stable Branch - 0.58 Discussion

[RpG-spot 5]

Talking to people gets me whacked more often than not I find, which is one of the things I dislike about the player base of DayZ. Far too many people are in it simply to shoot other players, because there's little else to do at present and now, with Cherno and Electro depopulated of CoD types, this kind of PVP encounter has been exported across the map.

 

Last night I went onto a private server, Blue Waffle Attack Force. It was a full server, but for 3 hours I saw nobody. Then, just as I was about to check out the cop shop in Novaya, I see a guy come out of the fire station. I say "hi, how's it going", (I have a shotgun stowed on my back and not in my hands) and he immediately he fumbles out a crossbow and starts firing at me. Fuck sake... :rolleyes:

There's a lot you can learn about the person in the first few seconds of speaking to them, which is why I tend to open communication when I'm not standing in front of their face. If they don't at least try to talk through comms or local chat then I shoot them... it's as simple as that. If they do talk, then they are either friendly or just pretending to be in order to gain an advantage. Sometimes you can determine which one through their tone of voice, sometimes you can't. That's the fun part :) 

[IMT 3190]

So do you understand the underling mechanic with charcoal?

It stops one or more of the stages of "sick" status, correct?

If you are sick and eat a charcoal tab in DayZ it will stop giving you messages and you stop puking. However it will still say "sick" but this is a visual bug I guess. Whenever you get the healthy status back again, the sick status disappears imediately.

 

This clip was staying there for more than 12 hrs - that's to long. I also see a lot of loot, which seems to stay untouched by anyone and does not despawn after a while.

Think of a normal player - how much time can he/she spend on the game? I agree with u that food isn't the problem but weapons (the "normal" one that you can find at civillian areas) for example, should be accessible for all players in a appropriate amount of time. If a normal player can spend 1-2hrs on the game per session, he/she should have any usefull gun after the 2nd or at least after the 3rd session. I don't want to say that everyone should get his favourite gun and equipment "for free" but pvp is and also will be a big part of the game. I agree, that there should be more player interaction and less KOS in the future but I also think that alternation between base building, hunting etc. and fighting keeps the game alive. And forward-looking to the next patches: Why would you build a base, if there never would be other players which try to crack it? ;)

I absolutely agree because in the end you have nothing left to do. Other players really bring different aspects with them. My experience was still a bit easy mode but we will get there eventually.

 

I think weapons are among the easiest to find, actually. Mags are a bit harder, but still easy with some patience. I was merely talking about some everyday items, mostly the backpacks that seem a bit hard to find, especially coastside. Might be that has to do with the player items not getting cleaned up, might be intentional. I do come across a green/orange/blue mountain backpack occasionally, but usually it takes quite a hike to find one. Most of the time I'll craft a pack, since burlap and rope seem more frequent than actual backpacks. But okay, you will find a Talon backpack in almost any town, if you look hard enough.

It would make sense though. If all the big packs spawned at the coast, people would just carry everything they find away, instead of heading north and inland. I don't think I've ever played longer than an hour without finding any backpack, it's still acceptable. I played private and public hive and the private seemed to be a little less looted - but it was also less populated.

I also find a taloon backpack in almost every city or town. You are saying that a backpack is hard to find while in fact every city or town has a taloon backpack. That does mean that backpacks are common, only the bigger backpacks are not. This factor makes a very huge difference in "there are no backpacks". It makes "there are no big backpacks", which is a very big difference.

 

There's a lot you can learn about the person in the first few seconds of speaking to them, which is why I tend to open communication when I'm not standing in front of their face. If they don't at least try to talk through comms or local chat then I shoot them... it's as simple as that. If they do talk, then they are either friendly or just pretending to be in order to gain an advantage. Sometimes you can determine which one through their tone of voice, sometimes you can't. That's the fun part :)

Agreed, the interaction is the most fun part but also the one which gives the most adrenaline. It's simply because if you die, you need to start over again. That's what gives us that adrenaline rush in fire fights and around interaction. That is why we keep coming back to DayZ, to find this adrenaline rush. :) Edited September 7, 2015 by IMT

[BCBasher 2465]

Cooked and ate 30 pieces of fish between two guys, one ate 24 the other 6.

 

Not sure if I got lucky or it's fixed but I 100% didn't get food poisoning.

[Kohlbar 268]

Just started my own mini-camp of sorts  that included a barrel and a fireplace. I wanted to make it more homey by making the fireplace a stone oven, but a stack of 8 stones + fireplace did nothing but place the stones in the fireplace's inventory! Are there no stone ovens in this patch? Anyone else tried?

[SMoss 2101]

Just started my own mini-camp of sorts  that included a barrel and a fireplace. I wanted to make it more homey by making the fireplace a stone oven, but a stack of 8 stones + fireplace did nothing but place the stones in the fireplace's inventory! Are there no stone ovens in this patch? Anyone else tried?

Seems to be bugged atm. It's been filed so the team can investigate+fix.

[edwin3 74]

Not sure if I got lucky or it's fixed but I 100% didn't get food poisoning.

nice.

 

but i disagree towards the vomiting -> bloodloss thing. vomiting while healthy wont take healthy state away.

 

If you are sick and eat a charcoal tab in DayZ it will stop giving you messages and you stop puking. However it will still say "sick" but this is a visual bug I guess. Whenever you get the healthy status back again, the sick status disappears imediately.

apllies to my experience, had been in healthy state right after i ate the charcoals.

 

This clip was staying there for more than 12 hrs - that's to long. I also see a lot of loot, which seems to stay untouched by anyone and does not despawn after a while.

seems to be same as for guns - three day for what i read.

 

if your main goal in dayz is to get a gun and you want a fix timeframe until you get one you should stick with the bow, which anyone can achieve with a minimum of effort and skill. what you demand in your post would take away anything dayz (not the modmods) did ever stand for - hardcore survival based on player skill. that takes time and if you you are not willing to invest that you might be better off with playing wasteland until some pvp-focussing mods get released. altho the limited amount of time you can invest in dayz might explain the problems you have, as you dont have enough experience to adopt to the new loot situation.

dont get me wrong, loot is a bit broken atm - but not finding a weapon + ammo after 3 hours of play isnt explained because there arent any. if have five "test chars", each aged one session between 1 and four hours - everyone is healthy, all but one are able to shoot bullets with a decent gun, each one has a backpack and a vest.

complaining about the game and its design wont help you in any way, cause it leads you to frustration which keeps you away from learning how the game works atm.

 

imho, if people complain bout not finding a gun the game is still way to easy.

 

greets

Edited September 7, 2015 by edwin3

[edwin3 74]

Just started my own mini-camp of sorts  that included a barrel and a fireplace. I wanted to make it more homey by making the fireplace a stone oven, but a stack of 8 stones + fireplace did nothing but place the stones in the fireplace's inventory! Are there no stone ovens in this patch? Anyone else tried?

 

I just built one yesterday. But it has been changed some time ago. You now need the big stones, harvested with the pickaxe. solution?

[S3V3N 1402]

Cooked and ate 30 pieces of fish between two guys, one ate 24 the other 6.

 

Not sure if I got lucky or it's fixed but I 100% didn't get food poisoning.

 

That is great news. Means I no longer will pass by the deer and try using them more wholesome (making hooks from their bones for fishing too). So far, I never had space in any barrel anyway, so I barely took the pelts. If I did I usually left them in some other inventory for other people to find. And the meat, guts and fat was just cluttering up my inventory for no good reason. It's cool to hear this has been fixed. Is it possible to tan pelts for leather, even when there is something else in the barrels, too? Or do they have to be completely empty for that? In Exp it seemed it works with other things inside the barrel, too. But then again, the mechanic didn't work yet in Exp, so I can't be sure. 

 

How did you cook it? Both ways - in a pot and on a stick? I usually prefer the stick for ease, but I am carrying a pot as my main melee weapon, atm :) Now I'm looking forward to some hunting trips with pals and leather-bag-making and all that shizzle :) 

[krisfx 11]

Thats exactly what im thinking. Well people always whine. I hope Devs dont focus too mutch to negative feedback that is allaround this game.

 

I now spent as fresh spawn 1-3 hour to find my first gun with matching bullets. Thats gives each character way more depth and the feel of losing things than to gear up in 30min in svetlojarsk/berenzino and pvp , die rinse and repeat. First time im really venturing all over the map

 

I hope there will be rainbows , unicorns and sunshine in future (and yes few zombies)

 

This is best patch ever. Step game has taken in last 2 patches are amazing. Game itself is amazing. Im newcomer and i can understant negative feelings to slow progress but remember kids positive feedback gives positive results <3

 

Critique is also important in forcing the game in the right direction, so there are two sides to the story. The design process needs the "whiners" as much as it needs the arse kissers. Also 0.57 was terrible, which is why exp 0.58 was so busy I think. 

[R. Hartenstein 18]

 

if your main goal in dayz is to get a gun and you want a fix timeframe until you get one you should stick with the bow, which anyone can achieve with a minimum of effort and skill. what you demand in your post would take away anything dayz (not the modmods) did ever stand for - hardcore survival based on player skill. that takes time and if you you are not willing to invest that you might be better off with playing wasteland until some pvp-focussing mods get released. altho the limited amount of time you can invest in dayz might explain the problems you have, as you dont have enough experience to adopt to the new loot situation.

dont get me wrong, loot is a bit broken atm - but not finding a weapon + ammo after 3 hours of play isnt explained because there arent any. if have five "test chars", each aged one session between 1 and four hours - everyone is healthy, all but one are able to shoot bullets with a decent gun, each one has a backpack and a vest.

complaining about the game and its design wont help you in any way, cause it leads you to frustration which keeps you away from learning how the game works atm.

 

imho, if people complain bout not finding a gun the game is still way to easy.

 

greets

 

I think you missunderstood me. First: I'm playing on a 50/50 private server, where some of the loot is simply to rare. Yes, DayZ should be a hardcore survival game in some way but on the other hand every game needs players to play it. You have to find the balance between attractiveness for "normal" players and challenge for the other players. It took me now arround 20 hrs to finally find a Mosin (5h each session). Imo that's just to much time for a crucial part of you equipment. In this time I never stopped walking, checked citties, villages and even single buildings somewhere in the woods for guns... nothing. (It's just luck to find a gun. It gives you no advantage if you know the theoretical spawnpoints or not) Again - I don't want M4's, AK's, SVD's / hunting scopes for everyone, just a working gun + ammo/magazine that gives you the chance to do sth. if a gunfight starts.

 

If you talk about skill: Try to use your selfmade bow again a military guy - I gues the military guy wins most of the time, even if u manage to hit him somehow. I don't think that many of the "bandits" will stop shooting at you because you have no gun. It would be an uneven fight between some lucky guys who found a good gun at a airfield and some scarce-equipped survivors who are fighting the daily challenges of finding anything.

Edited September 7, 2015 by R. Hartenstein

[Noctoras 409]

If guns are all that makes DayZ for you, Call of Duty might be better suited. You'll be geared in no time, no need to waste your precious time travelling a whole map.

 

I'm almost sick of everyone running around fully geared, only looking for the next kill. This is due to guns being too ample and too little else to do apart from shooting. At least too little reasonable stuff. I don't start horticulture, if I find baked beans around almost every corner.

 

As for attractiveness - you play on a 50 player hive - obviously it is okay for the other 49, since they would pick another server, if not ....

 

That aside, ever heard of melee weapons? Yes, they can indeed be used. People only forgot about it, since they have been spammed to death with guns and ammo in recent patches.

 

The best way to curb this PvP-rinse-repeat-cycle is to have little guns. Makes them all the more precious, if you find them.

 

And to your last point ... usind a self made bow against a military guy. Now, are you serious? This is NOT a PvP arena shooter where you always have to go 1on1. You can sneak and shoot him from behind. You can crouch and cover and come back once you have a weapon. You can catch him in a moment of unawareness with a melee weapon even. But NOOOOOOO.... you have to run straight at him, bow wielding? Wonder how long you would survive in an apocalyptic scenario.

 

I'm not saying it for the first time and most likely not for the last time. This mega PvP has killed player interaction in this game, main factor for this being too many guns and too little other challenges.

[R. Hartenstein 18]

Haha, don't get angry that fast  ;)

 

I would like to do other stuff if it would make any sense but like you said, it does not atm. I also think that weapons are the scapegoat for all bad player-behaviour atm. That I want a gun does not mean that I want to do 10 kills/hr or whatever you expect - imo a gun belongs to self-defense. A gun is like "plan B" if you can't interact with other players in another way or if they force you to fight them.

 

What kills player interaction atm is simply the fact, that there is no challenge which forces you to work together with other players, so players simply fight each other atm cause it's the fastest way to have some fun.
 

About the last point: If you are the one who hunts the other players - sure u can make use of the bow or melee weapons that way. My argument belongs to the situation when you suddenly stay in front of some armed guys and there is nothing else to do than running off and hoping that there is someone else those (kos)bandits may focus on.

Edited September 7, 2015 by R. Hartenstein

[Tonyeh 444]

if your main goal in dayz is to get a gun and you want a fix timeframe until you get one you should stick with the bow, which anyone can achieve with a minimum of effort and skill. what you demand in your post would take away anything dayz (not the modmods) did ever stand for - hardcore survival based on player skill. that takes time and if you you are not willing to invest that you might be better off with playing wasteland until some pvp-focussing mods get released.

 

Ya know...people keep saying this kind of stuff, but the fact is that, at present, HARDCORE survival means not being killed by other players, because DayZ IS a PVP focused mod.

 

Death by other players is the absolute most common way to die in this game, so any talk of "survival" in other contexts is absolutely meaningless, unless you fuck up spectacularly. It's incredibly easy to survive the world of DayZ, because food is readilly available, water can be had in one of the many pumps in Chernarus, weather isn't that severe and there isn't a single zombie to be found (and even when they're in, they're only a very minor irritation). Apart from one instance, I have had no trouble whatsoever maintaining a "stuffed" status in any of the iterations of DayZ that I've played and I don't even bother with camps, or stocking up items.

 

So, the ONLY real threat to your player's survival in DayZ's current form is other players who, will more often that not, just shoot you for the sake of it, regardless of whether your wearing a T-shirt or kitted out like a marine.

 

This means that, yes, it is absolutely ESSENTIAL that a player who wishes to survive for any length of time obtain a decent fire arm, even if only as a means to surpress other players while you make good your escape, which I have had to do many, many times and that's something which simply isn't done using a ".22 Sporter", "trumpet" or a "Derringer".

 

Simply put, wanting a good firearm like an MP5 or what have you, doesn't mean that the player is entirely PVP obsessed.

[Noctoras 409]

What kills player interaction atm is simply the fact, that there is no challenge which forces you to work together with other players, so players simply fight each other atm cause it's the fastest way to have some fun.

 

 

True, this is also why you will not see me complaining about anyone going PvP or KOS - I do understand where people come from and without KOS you really cannot do a lot - or you have to create your own stupid challenge, like cutting 10 trees per minute or whatever ... nothing anyone would play DayZ for. What I think, though, is that the focus should not be on more guns, quite the opposite, I'd love to see them rare.

 

What I would love to see is incentives to team up (no, not for more firepower) .... , more tasks which are not just fulfilled by "walk into house - open can - feel stuffed". Stuff like electricity can be really well used in this context. What I do see as a problem is that players are not able to acquire different skills (the char development will be limited to "performing an action faster", which everyone else will be able to do a little slower). Learning skills, like med skills, mechanic skills etc. could be a major boost to gameplay actually and very close to real life, where people group together to make use of indvidual skills - which is also the foundation of modern economics by the way.

[Tonyeh 444]

 My argument belongs to the situation when you suddenly stay in front of some armed guys and there is nothing else to do than running off and hoping that there is someone else those (kos)bandits may focus on.

 

And this happens all the time. In addition, it now happens on every square inch of the map, now that Cherno or Electro aren't the playground of gobshites any more. These PVP geniues have been exported across the entire map. You can end up in a firefight in a field NW of Gorka.

 

Before you could avoid the likes of Cherno, unless you were actively seeking trouble. But now DayZ is less 'Call of Cherno' and more 'Call of Chernarus', which is unfortunate in the extreme IMHO.

 

Whether we like it or not (and I don't), a huge number of DayZ's player base is in it to killl other players. I've been shot at with everything from a bow to an M4, regardless of what I was actually carrying at the time. For god's sake, I've been attacked by fools with just their fists!

 

There really are some people who have no other way of playing games and until DayZ's environment becomes a very realy threat and truly dangerous zombie hordes are a reailty, that situation is likely to stay that way.

[R. Hartenstein 18]

True, this is also why you will not see me complaining about anyone going PvP or KOS - I do understand where people come from and without KOS you really cannot do a lot - or you have to create your own stupid challenge, like cutting 10 trees per minute or whatever ... nothing anyone would play DayZ for. What I think, though, is that the focus should not be on more guns, quite the opposite, I'd love to see them rare.

 

What I would love to see is incentives to team up (no, not for more firepower) .... , more tasks which are not just fulfilled by "walk into house - open can - feel stuffed". Stuff like electricity can be really well used in this context. What I do see as a problem is that players are not able to acquire different skills (the char development will be limited to "performing an action faster", which everyone else will be able to do a little slower). Learning skills, like med skills, mechanic skills etc. could be a major boost to gameplay actually and very close to real life, where people group together to make use of indvidual skills - which is also the foundation of modern economics by the way.

 

Yep but you could also make use of guns in a "team-way". That must not mean killing other players. Think about a group of players fighting zed hordes in a town, where you maybe get a rare tool, needed for producing electricity. Another thing is, that there will never be a complety friendly world in DayZ. I guess the "best" scenario are several groups of 1-10 players doing stuff together (gathering stuff, build a base, fight other groups which get to close or have a chopper :D)

 

This idea about individual skills sounds great but I guess there are only a few players, which would spend their time for producing meds/food/tools/ammo/... so that the others can walk through chernarus and have fun^^

 

EDIT:

 

@ Tonyeh: It's hard to fight others with a derringer/trumpet but don't underestimate a sporter with mag (and maybe hunting scope). It's skill-dependent which kind of gun you need to defend yourself effectively. As your skills evolve you will learn to play good with those "shitty" guns as well :D

Edited September 7, 2015 by R. Hartenstein

[Tonyeh 444]

@ Tonyeh: It's hard to fight others with a derringer/trumpet but don't underestimate a sporter with mag (and maybe hunting scope). It's skill-dependent which kind of gun you need to defend yourself effectively. As your skills evolve you will learn to play good with those "shitty" guns as well :D

 

Well, I'm just not that good in a shoot out, it's not really why I play the game. My MO is spray off a lot of bullets to scare to crap out of the other guy(s) and run away.  :lol:

[edwin3 74]

@guys

 

dont get me wrong, i love pvp and imho its one of the core features. but for me the path to getting a gun is something that makes dayz stand out and therefor an at least equal core mechanic. if u aint got a gun or just one that needs more skill than others, you always have a choice.

 

And the opinion mentioned above, that the only way to survive an encounter with a hostile player is to have a descent gun and shoot him is something i simply dont agree. hiding is effectiv, bows are deadly in close combat (tbh most koser arent really skilled players, fists or stoneknifes are a viable option with a little luck - if you need to fight) and imho awareness of your surrounding is the most potent weapon of all - a uneven fight can only start if i engage it - runnning is always an option and by surviving i also think of player encounters.

 

regarding loot - its frustrating not to find a gun in 20 hours, something i didnt even experience in the first iteration of .54. my main server is also a high pop private which hasnt been wiped yet. and yes, there are empty regions and also problems with cle & cleanup. But, what many players will have to learn, that for now it isnt about knowing spawn locations. Its about finding and percieving sparse looted areas, thats where you get your rewards. randomness aka luck is only a description for not understanding. loot aint random, there are systems behind it (which are wip) - imho the most uncertain factor towards cle is the players behaviour on a server, which with it does interact - but for me its what gives .58 the spice. it takes away prediction and security (of which for me there is still way to much), generating fear, heartattacks and hopeless situations.

 

The argument of how many players like or dislike is something we all can only speculate, which wouldnt even change anything - bi will make its own descisions, hopefully not based on some 30 guy polls. (and, tbh if it were mostly about players count and sales, CoD would be the accurate reference).

But using it as an argument in a discussion is only a cheap try to make the own opinion more worthy.

 

it has been stated several times that loot will get more sparse than it has been and is for now. it even got raised, when moving from experimental to stable - to give players time to adopt. all i want u to understand is, that you are blocking urself - your behaviour wont progress if you dont search your own mistakes and keep pointing at the game. and if you dont like it the way it is - wait for mods and the final version.

 

greets

Edited September 7, 2015 by edwin3

[R. Hartenstein 18]

...

 

And the opinion mentioned above, that the only way to survive an encounter with a hostile player is to have a descent gun and shoot him is something i simply dont agree. hiding is effectiv, bows are deadly in close combat (tbh most koser arent really skilled players, fists or stoneknifes are a viable option with a little luck - if you need to fight) and imho awareness of your surrounding is the most potent weapon of all - a uneven fight can only start if i engage it - runnning is always an option and by surviving i also think of player encounters.

 

...

 

it has been stated several times that loot will get more sparse than it has been and is for now. it even got raised, when moving from experimental to stable - to give players time to adopt. all i want u to understand is, that you are blocking urself - your behaviour wont progress if you dont search your own mistakes and keep pointing at the game. and if you dont like it the way it is - wait for mods and the final version.

 

greets

 

The problem is that you simply can't hide when they stay 10 meters away from you. Sometimes it simply happens, that you  meet some players while going around a corner or when you reach the top of a hill. The only thing that protects you in this moment, is fast reaction - that means killing them before they kill you or turn around and run while trying to block LOS with trees, bushes, houses... as good as you can, so that they can't take a shot at you. Most of the time they will follow you just a few minutes but as some loot gets really rare now this seems to be changing. You can avoid shots of single-fire guns really well but if your opponents have semi- or full-automatic guns they will just spray you down.

 

It's one thing to point at the game, saying that devs are doing everything wrong and another thing to say that there is something, that obviously seems to be wrong while keep on testing ingame. While I wrote about the gun-issue on private servers, I was still trying to find a gun by checking all potential loot spawns, by alternating my routes across the map...

 

I agree with you that the players which see a "bug" and get pissed instantly, shouldn't play the game that much until it's finished. The other ones who see things and write about it here, while they keep on doing researches ingame, are simply tired of getting called "crying".

Edited September 7, 2015 by R. Hartenstein

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Some Steam DB activity only 10 minutes ago....

 

:ph34r:

[Tonyeh 444]

And the opinion mentioned above, that the only way to survive an encounter with a hostile player is to have a descent gun and shoot him is something i simply dont agree. hiding is effectiv, bows are deadly in close combat (tbh most koser arent really skilled players, fists or stoneknifes are a viable option with a little luck - if you need to fight) and imho awareness of your surrounding is the most potent weapon of all - a uneven fight can only start if i engage it - runnning is always an option and by surviving i also think of player encounters.

 

All well and good, if you can hide. But most encounters with players, especially in towns and cities are by accident and surprise and that negates hiding. If that's the case and the other player is intent on doing you harm, like 95% of the players in DayZ are want to do at present, then a good shooter is indespensible and good luck using your fists against someone with an AKM. You WILL die.

 

Also, I never said "that the only way to survive an encounter with a hostile player is to have a descent gun and shoot him". But, the bottom line is sometimes there is no option but to engage.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Some Steam DB activity only 10 minutes ago....

 

:ph34r:

 

Oh thank god. Maybe that means the hotfix is incoming. 

 

EDIT: Just checked it out. "internaldebug" is listed in the change. So the latest activity probably isn't the hotfix.

Edited September 7, 2015 by ColdAtrophy

[edwin3 74]

one last word, then ill flee the discussion

 

imho awareness of your surrounding is the most potent weapon of all

hitting geared players at surprise is always just 50:50 at max

 

I was still trying to find a gun by checking all potential loot spawns

thats why you dont find much, awnser in my above post

 

keep surviving

[shoobiestomper 8]

Does the fact that the gun is inside the holster really change the size of it that much?  Considering it's already 2x2, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to put it inside another container.

 

Yeah, I agree and like I said... I don't think there is actually a benefit to it other than being able to keep both.

Edited September 22, 2015 by ShoobieStomper

[R. Hartenstein 18]

one last word, then ill flee the discussion

 

imho awareness of your surrounding is the most potent weapon of all

hitting geared players at surprise is always just 50:50 at max

 

I was still trying to find a gun by checking all potential loot spawns

thats why you dont find much, awnser in my above post

 

keep surviving

 

That comment isn't really helpfull. Where would you look for loot, if spawnpoints have changed (seems like) and there is no way to watch the average-movment of the server population? There is nothing else to do than try area after area and check everything that looks humanmade in any way.