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What would you do if they removed third person view?

What would you do if they removed third person view?  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. What would you do?

    • Stop playing
      4
    • Stick with it and adapt to first person
      2
    • Keep on playing because I play first person already
      33


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11 minutes ago, FunkInYourTrunk said:

i cant believe how many times i have read this same topic.  how is it discussion worthy? removing it would be a poor business decision because of the people who like 3pp (i prefer first person) and the people with motion sickness.  besides it gives us a buffer.  it is where people who play strictly for pvp or people who want "the upper hand" all the time play.  if you take all the toxic players from 3pp and move them to hardcore it would probably take from the experience.  im not a fan of 3pp and dont play it but it would be silly for them to remove it imo.

 

alas.... here i am saying dumb things like 'how is this discussion worthy'........while taking part in the discussion.  

I'm new around here so the discussion is all fresh to me, and soooo much more interesting than the "waa waa there's no lewt/food/water" threads that were going on. They've quieted down a bit recently though, haven't they? Or have I just developed an internal filter to ignore them?

Edited by Beavis3D

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55 minutes ago, Beavis3D said:

I'm new around here so the discussion is all fresh to me, and soooo much more interesting than the "waa waa there's no lewt/food/water" threads that were going on. They've quieted down a bit recently though, haven't they? Or have I just developed an internal filter to ignore them?

Going to play devils advocate here and say this, white knighting and being apologetic to a fault never helped move things forward either, being positive is one thing, the other two are just as bad as being a harsh critic, or a whiny entitled cry baby .

When it comes to games and/or tastes we all have our own opinions and expectations, you nor I, nor anyone else's opinion carries more weight than any one else's here, so keeping an open mind and accepting we might not all agree on everything, and being civil is key, so not labeling another's opinions as "waa waa" threads, but possibly valid concerns from another individual with his or her own equally valid opinions, if ignoring them works for you by all means feel free to continue doing just that, but if people can no longer discuss, argument, or voice their appreciations or concerns on a forum without getting bashed or branded as a cry baby or a white knight, then maybe people need to realize that is what forums are mostly for, communicating, discussing, arguing, if all of us agreed all of the time there would be no need for a forum, we would also probably be more AI than man at that point too . ^^

Edited by Ninefingers

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2 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

you nor I, nor anyone else's opinion carries more weight than any one else's here,

So if I spend 6 years studying something, my opinion carries just as much weight as someone who just learned about something that week?

I've hung on every word of EVERY status report. I've watched every dev stream and convention stream. I've tested nearly every patch, and contributed 1,000's of lines of feedback pertaining to those patches. I've watched this community grow, flourish, and then whither, and die. I trudged through many near zombie-less experimental patches, just to add another set of logs to the database when hardly anybody played DayZ at all.

None of that adds weight to my input?

2 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

but if people can no longer discuss, argument, or voice their appreciations or concerns on a forum without getting bashed or branded as a cry baby or a white knight

The whining threads are epidemic around new patches and are not created by informed invested testers. I have been branded a fanboi or white knight countless times over the years and NO ONE calls the new members out for that. With a clear historic understanding of this project, anybody would understand why a strong supportive voice might be necessary among the absolute cacophony of negative, misinformed, "opinions". I pine for the days when we had these threads merged or deleted more often.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Many long time supporters bowed out of active engagement with this forum and DayZ in general because of the negative echo chamber that became the discussions around DayZ.

Rocket melted down and left the communities because Reddit assaulted him so intensely.

Reddit has also caused multiple personal problems for other devs on this team.

If you simply look at the reviews on Steam, you might see just how infected (pun intended) the thinking has become around what the progression of this project should be. Facts can't pierce the bubble around haters that pat each other on the back day in and day out.

How many, "look at how far PuBG has gotten in less time!", threads should people create?

How many, "I'm dying of thirst... fix your game!", threads should clog the boards?

How many, "I wasted 2 hours trying to find my friends.... just put in bicycles!", threads really add anything constructive?

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6 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

Going to play devils advocate here and say this, white knighting and being apologetic to a fault never helped move things forward either, being positive is one thing, the other two are just as bad as being a harsh critic, or a whiny entitled cry baby .

When it comes to games and/or tastes we all have our own opinions and expectations, you nor I, nor anyone else's opinion carries more weight than any one else's here, so keeping an open mind and accepting we might not all agree on everything, and being civil is key, so not labeling another's opinions as "waa waa" threads, but possibly valid concerns from another individual with his or her own equally valid opinions, if ignoring them works for you by all means feel free to continue doing just that, but if people can no longer discuss, argument, or voice their appreciations or concerns on a forum without getting bashed or branded as a cry baby or a white knight, then maybe people need to realize that is what forums are mostly for, communicating, discussing, arguing, if all of us agreed all of the time there would be no need for a forum, we would also probably be more AI than man at that point too . ^^

You're right, so I'll try to clarify. If people say "We can't find loot anywhere!" or "We keep starving/thirsting to death, we think there should be more food/water around!" we can give tips on how they can deal with their problems and have a healthy discussion. For example, I too think the rates at which energy/hydration drops are exaggerated in 0.63, and the amounts you need to eat and drink to max them are inhuman, just plain silly to be honest.

However, I am sick and tired of the people who dive in screaming "THERE IS NO LOOT!!!" or "YOU STARVE TO DEATH IN FIVE MINUTES DAYZ SO BROKEN FFS!!!" etc etc, along with a grand selection of bad words.

They are not interested in listening to advice or having a discussion, they just want to scream and rant and get patted on the back by likeminded. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time respecting the opinion of someone who just won't listen to reason and would rather ignore facts and keep screaming than admit he might be exaggerating the problem.

That is what I mean with "waa waa" threads, nothing more. It's a question of how they voice their concerns, no matter how valid they might be at the core.

And back to topic, I want 3rd person to stay because I like it! ;-)

Edited by Beavis3D
Typo

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These threads have been done to death but what the hell - I like them both so I'll play whatever my friends on steam are playing at the moment.  I do play 3pp a lot when I'm just taking a stroll around enjoying the forests and scenery, or exploring the map, or if I want to take some screenshots or see some new animation or characters.  I'm sure when shaving beards comes in I'll be checking that out asap on 3pp.  There's definitely a place for 3pp imo.   When I want that real gritty dayz feel, potential combat around every corner, harsh weather, starvation, cholera etc there's no comparison to 1pp.  I don't think 3pp combat is necessarily unfair because all players have the same exact advantages and disadvantages on the server, but so much of the game is based on who sees who first and 3pp wall-peeking can foul up that authenticity and thus foul up the experience.  I'd hate to see either removed but I'm confident the devs have no intentions of doing that.

Edited by GaryWalnuts
wurds

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The short answer:

I would still play it if Dayz becomes 1pp only :)

 

The long answer - discussion:

We've talked about this, I'll repeat myself most likely. I came from 1pp shooters too. Some flight and race car sims too. I was lucky to be there when Doom, Duke 3D, Quake and CS were out. I also loved BGS's Elder scrolls and Fallout games and would play in 1pp because it was kind of natural to me. Hell, early Elder scrolls didn't even have 3pp. But anyway, back then, we didn't have aim down sight, and then the sway and recoil, bullet trajectories etc. Now stamina too, and then that little lag when looking and moving around to add to inertia feel. But they added it here because people were sprint zig-zagging which made combat "gamey" in a game that tries to be authentic or realistic. In general, pvp wise, it was simpler, easier to aim back then, and the mechanics have evolved to complex pretty much. I think everyone for 1pp only need to ask themselves honestly if they are advocating for it purely for immersion or because there is some advantage of 3pp over 1pp. If it's not just about shooting, then I agree it's quite a thing to run around the corner only to collide with an infected or some other player. Or just to peak, and realize you might be in trouble.

I'm on that side which doesn't play 1pp strictly now, since I've always felt more or less constrained within that "frame" for reasons already noted by people here like the cardboard thing on your head comparison, your eyes can move too - not only your head and so on. Maybe 3pp is wrong for this game, I don't know, maybe it is better to satisfy as much people as possible, since this is a product to be sold after all. It's easier to play in 3pp of course and for me it compensates a bit for being in the constraints of the virtual world with other players, and is a bit less tense, it's true. If the game was not multiplayer, then I think there'd be absolutely no problems if it was 1pp only. The devs already made some progress to make 3pp not that much advantageous over 1pp. Maybe if they limited/changed the camera panning movement even more to reduce the corner peeking thing? Like with the peek over walls thing.

I remember a great horror game Dark corners of the Earth. What amazed me back then is that for quite some time in the game you had no weapons and was mostly efforts to evade and run away. It had a stress level limit which you had to manage but when reached, your character kills himself.

And then remember you have other games that are 3pp only, like Warframe. Of course, the vision for Dayz is why I understand the arguments here for 1pp only. It could help justify this horror part of the label. I still remember some good scares and good encounters on Dayz Oldschool Hardcore server. But some people still want to play it as a shooter primarily, as much as any roleplayer does his own thing, since there are no rules and time limits. You spawn and you go to do as you please. I personally feel like this today, and like that the other day. I am happy that there is an option to make your Dayz server to a certain preference, 1pp only or both. But is this inevitable division of the whole player base more of a problem, or a welcoming option? What's good in the long run for both the players' experience and the product itself?

But to get a bit ranty, there is so much more that is constraining in these games if you aim for closer to real life experience. Like traversing through some woods, my character getting stuck on a fallen big tree branch or any other obstacle like some low fence, but in real life my brain would tell my legs to do something about that while still concentrating on the goal. If I was going backwards not knowing it was there, I'd most likely trip over and fall. It's frustrating being locked in an animation. I keep not making a shot through the window of a house because I move my weapon around like a stiff corpse or a statue. I guess the ultimate goal would be to get as close as possible but I don't see a point in time when games reach the level of your own brain's perception and your limbs movement. And currently VR and Track IR are the only things improving your vision here. Especially for racing sims and flight sims. But with VR it's tough to see your keyboard and mouse, and you have to use those funny controllers probably standing up, and then I'm afraid I'd reach a situation in game where I'd run out the window accidentally.

To sum it up, it just all builds up to the point of nonsense. If I wanted a realistic shooter game, I'd be out paintballing or airsofting. But there's no real infected there, you already know most of the people there beforehand, and we'd probably just pause the game for eating and drinking haha

 

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19 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

people swear that if you put a cardboard box on your head in real life and cut a 6 square in the front of that, then you can go into action wearing that box and it imitates your screen view so it is more REALISTIC and therefore more IMMERSIVE than having full real human eyesight.

What kind/size of box is best suited for this kind of immershun?  Asking for a friend.  Not a patent troll; pinky promise.

FWIW, I used to think they should just render the 3pp camera as a floating orb.  I am proud to announce that I no longer feel that way.  I have seen the light.  The only true solution is to put the camera in a box with a rectangular slit, to add back the immershun missing from 3pp.  This, of course, means that 1pp players will also need a box to look through, so they don't miss out on the blissful joy of the one true perspective.  For continuity, all players will simply have their head textures stretched onto the box, so they can still have the fun of trying new hats, masks, and glasses.  Both 1pp and 3pp players will have boxheads, while the 3pp camera will remain invisibly disembodied, but will show a view as if boxed.  The changes to the various places of worship around chernarus would be pretty simple; all the paintings can be easily edited to reflect the blessed perfection of headboxing.  
May your corners stay sharp and your corrugations be true.  Crease be with you.

Edit:  It has been brought to my attention that another title in the survival/sandbox genre has already cornered the market on block-headed avatars.   We must now clearly emphasize that DayZ characters do not have box-shaped heads, but are rather wearing boxes on their heads.

Edited by emuthreat
Mojang lawyers

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7 hours ago, emuthreat said:

What kind/size of box is best suited for this kind of immershun?  Asking for a friend. 

..//..

Good question, brave man, heroic emuthreat!

Obviously the BOX has to have a hole cut in it that is wide and high enough so that you can JUST see the edges of your active play screen through it when you are sitting in your normal playing position. You will be lucky if that is 30° wide and much less high. Measure it for yourself.

Even playing with an ultra wide screen or multi screen this "box opening" will give you less than 80° forward vision from side to side. NOT the 170° vision of normal real life human eyesight.  

Then go out in the real world wearing you "REALISM & IMMERSION" box.
Or go into combat.
Or at least be careful crossing roads.. OK..?

Note -  REAL human vision is 170° as long as you are looking straight ahead.. so for ultra REALISM never MOVE YOUR EYEBALLS left or right.  This includes if you are wearing VR goggles - NO eyeball movement, OK? -  that's cheating and it won't work anyway.

Because if you do that UNNATURAL EYEBALL-MOVEMENT THING (in "reality" without a box) then you can get 190° of human vision without turning your head !!!
That is obviously TOTALLY unrealistic and does not reproduce a TRUE game screen experience in ANY way.

A true game screen (ie REALISM & IMMERSION) is flat and is NOT 3D, it gives you the same "sense of distance" as keeping one eye shut, because ALL those dots on your screen are actually the same distance from your eyeball, at the same focal length (a couple of feet or so?) and human real-life bifocal range-finding  - incredibly accurate - and took hundreds of thousands of years to develop ( complain to BI ) - does NOT work on your screen.

So for added realism & immersion in your cardboard box, out on the street, keep one eye SHUT.

I assume that the DESIGNER of humans (probably Cthulu)  totally forgot about "immersion" and "realism"  when human physical skills and abilities were being structured into homo sapiens.  

LUCKILY wearing a cardboard box as described can put YOU back in a much more realistic & immersive experience than any actual "real-life" combat. I don't understand why warriors have not worn eyesight reduction devices for centuries to give them the great advantage of REALISM & IMMERSION.  Think how many battles could have been won by soldiers wearing SERIOUSLY & REALISTICALLY vision-reducing boxes to give then a 30° forward view horizontally and 15° vertically - and using their neck muscles instead of glancing from side to side with their eyeballs.  <good grief> !! 

Whatever IDIOT designed human beings certainly didn't take REALISM & IMMERSION into account at all. So if you are offered the chance to be a Homo Sapiens, even at a reduced price, then REFUSE it, it is not realistic.

And of course, I am a follower of Nyarlathotep

and no one can argue with that

xxP

Edited by pilgrim*
[wikipedia "Field_of_view"] Humans have a slightly over 210-degree forward-facing horizontal arc of their visual field. The vertical range of the visual field in humans is around 150 degrees

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20 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

So if I spend 6 years studying something, my opinion carries just as much weight as someone who just learned about something that week?

I've hung on every word of EVERY status report. I've watched every dev stream and convention stream. I've tested nearly every patch, and contributed 1,000's of lines of feedback pertaining to those patches. I've watched this community grow, flourish, and then whither, and die. I trudged through many near zombie-less experimental patches, just to add another set of logs to the database when hardly anybody played DayZ at all.

None of that adds weight to my input?

The whining threads are epidemic around new patches and are not created by informed invested testers. I have been branded a fanboi or white knight countless times over the years and NO ONE calls the new members out for that. With a clear historic understanding of this project, anybody would understand why a strong supportive voice might be necessary among the absolute cacophony of negative, misinformed, "opinions". I pine for the days when we had these threads merged or deleted more often.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Many long time supporters bowed out of active engagement with this forum and DayZ in general because of the negative echo chamber that became the discussions around DayZ.

Rocket melted down and left the communities because Reddit assaulted him so intensely.

Reddit has also caused multiple personal problems for other devs on this team.

If you simply look at the reviews on Steam, you might see just how infected (pun intended) the thinking has become around what the progression of this project should be. Facts can't pierce the bubble around haters that pat each other on the back day in and day out.

How many, "look at how far PuBG has gotten in less time!", threads should people create?

How many, "I'm dying of thirst... fix your game!", threads should clog the boards?

How many, "I wasted 2 hours trying to find my friends.... just put in bicycles!", threads really add anything constructive?

Honestly on a forum it doesn't, if you think having thousands of messages counts towards something and that you will be rewarded anything for your time and effort you will be sorely disappointed .

I do understand your point of view though, I have also been around for a while, and gave my feed back countless times to the devs through other platforms, I have followed every patch and played extensively through each and every one, yet I still understand that people may be misinformed, uninformed? and that they would not know every detail pertaining to development, it has been a hot minute after all, that being said I have only respect for passionate people like yourself that are present and supportive every step of the way, I myself am just another guy that loved DayZ and is losing hope of ever seeing it arrive to it's full potential, call me a pessimist, I know what has been said on the dev front, and that we will finally be seeing things that were very long in gestation come to fruition, but still I will believe it when I see it, it is time to deliver now, I still do not believe we will be seeing much until at the very least another year .

Edited by Ninefingers

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40 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

Honestly on a forum it doesn't, if you think having thousands of messages counts towards something and that you will be rewarded anything for your time and effort you will be sorely disappointed

I didn't mean to say that I should get anything other than the satisfaction of having contributed to something I believe in.

I really just meant that my opinion would carry more weight due to my knowledge base and depth of participation.

Thank you though, seriously.

As far as pessimism is concerned.... I've come to realize that since 1.0 is an arbitrary label they could stop now and call it 1.0 if they wanted. So, they can basically say that whatever they have December 31st is 1.0. :/

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11 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

I didn't mean to say that I should get anything other than the satisfaction of having contributed to something I believe in.

I really just meant that my opinion would carry more weight due to my knowledge base and depth of participation.

Thank you though, seriously.

As far as pessimism is concerned.... I've come to realize that since 1.0 is an arbitrary label they could stop now and call it 1.0 if they wanted. So, they can basically say that whatever they have December 31st is 1.0. :/

Mate, totally understood what you were meaning, as far as I am concerned you have been here since day one, and you have supported and believed through thick and thin, honestly I wish I had such strong convictions left, we must not be made out of the same material, where you are willing to bend I have broken long ago, I still believe in the potential of this game, I just no longer believe it will be delivered in full, and more importantly that the ship has long past sailed .

I sincerely wish I am proven wrong by the talented developpers at Bohemia

Edited by Ninefingers

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Anyone still here patiently waiting for this game to reach fruition deserves an award. I hope that after all.. when we get there.. that award is going to be a good game. 

Similarly, anyone still here, still critical of the game have every right to be, nobody can doubt its been one heck of a rocky road, full of misdirection and changes, obviously none of which have helped the situation and perceptions.. but all of which are kinda understandable, maybe even unavoidable, when the game has been through so much and all over such a large period of time.

I can sympathize with both sides, heck I've been on both. Where am I right now? what do I think? honestly I'm long past caring so much.. I just hope for the sakes of everyone.. we end up with a survival game worthy of all our time spent waiting for such a thing. Fingers crossed that happens....... one day.

 

On topic - I'd entertain just a first person view, even welcome it.. if only for fairness. I really don't care that I cant see my character in the third person, the inventory screen gives me enough info for that kinda vanity need.

 

Edited by [Gen]Adzic

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8 hours ago, [Gen]Adzic said:

Anyone still here patiently waiting for this game to reach fruition deserves an award.

I, for one, would appreciate spawning with a meat slicer so I can quickly get to my endgame of opening a sandwich shop.

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I would continue to moan about DayZ not being like it used to be in terms of gameplay. 

As for 1 person view, I think it is more immersive, but it is also less entertaining. I think Hardcore servers are good solution, you have an option. I don't understand this passive wishlist kind of thread.

Edited by Mantasisg

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On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎11 at 1:47 PM, pilgrim* said:

Can you get to the "field of vision" argument please?  - that's where this thread always starts getting interesting (traditionally).

A human being in the real world has about 170° field of vision in front of them without moving their head . How do you imitate that on your screen?

I used to love this argument, it has gone on for years, please do it again.

xxp

 

 

 

FOV....FTW!

The biggest issue that will probably NEVER get addressed...

Peripheral vision is the key to bringing 3pp closer to 1pp and could negate the perceived benefits of 3pp for those who still feel they need it.

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On 7/11/2018 at 1:48 PM, Parazight said:

1pp destroys the MMO experience. 

 

it might destroy the typical cookie cutter WoW experiences , but in a skill based MMO like mortal Online first person makes the game soooo much better . The world hasn’t had a taste of skill based MMOs yet due to mortal being too indie to get in the hands of all gamers but I’m telling you right now in a TRULY skill based MMO 1pp is absolutely superior to third person . Tracing the arc of your weapons swing and determining how long it is before you go into battle is a must for first person skill based MMOS (in a medieval context this would be) and applied to dayz I could see it being even more intense if everyone had to use 1pp . 

 

An MMO called Chronicles of Elyria is coming out to early access sometime next year , maybe by the end of this year and that game promises to be a skill based MMO , with both first and third person but that’s ok because medieval games don’t get ruined by the third person / first person debacle like shooter games do . But 1pp is still superior for adventure , survival , MMO , shooter , in my opinion , and I will be rocking the hands and sword view when I get into COEs world , as for dayz ; I’m always in first person loving the immersion .

Edited by blackberrygoo

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2 hours ago, blackberrygoo said:

it might destroy the typical cookie cutter WoW experiences , but in a skill based MMO like mortal Online first person makes the game soooo much better . The world hasn’t had a taste of skill based MMOs yet due to mortal being too indie to get in the hands of all gamers but I’m telling you right now in a TRULY skill based MMO 1pp is absolutely superior to third person . Tracing the arc of your weapons swing and determining how long it is before you go into battle is a must for first person skill based MMOS (in a medieval context this would be) and applied to dayz I could see it being even more intense if everyone had to use 1pp . 

 

An MMO called Chronicles of Elyria is coming out to early access sometime next year , maybe by the end of this year and that game promises to be a skill based MMO , with both first and third person but that’s ok because medieval games don’t get ruined by the third person / first person debacle like shooter games do . But 1pp is still superior for adventure , survival , MMO , shooter , in my opinion , and I will be rocking the hands and sword view when I get into COEs world , as for dayz ; I’m always in first person loving the immersion .

Well, when I said that 1PP destroys the MMO experience it was, more or less, to throw out a subjective opinion just as easily as Biohaze subjectively claimed that 3PP destroys the DayZ experience.

That said, you lost me when you started talking about skill based MMOs.  There is no doubt that the upper tier of WoW is definitely skill based.  Teams of players make a living off of WoW by getting sponsored to stream end-game raiding.  Blizzard gives away tens of thousands of dollars at their PVP tournaments.   There's a lot of instances where it's catered to the casual gamer, but at the very top, it is very much skill based.  I couldn't even imagine playing WoW in first person, even though it's totally doable.

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