90% of players are unimaginitive simpletons

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Some people simply like KOSing more than anything else ... why should they “be in the know” as you say , if they are already enjoying what they are doing ? 

 

You do realize that there will always be those types of people , even in a real apocalypse ? If anything I’ve seen more friendly types lately than not ... we get where you’re going with the old “its more than kos” and I agree dayz has more potential than just a shooter , but in all honestly this seems like a salty after-death post passively trying to persuade people to stop kosing (meaning for some to stop playing the way they want to).

This would have been a welcomed post , oh I don’t know , 3.5 yeArs ago or so , but now a days I think it’s balanced out as far as it can be in terms of kos vs non-kos players until we get proper survival features like soft skills , base building , hordes — you know , stuff that really makes people think twice about kos and more about building communities .

Edited June 18, 2018 by blackberrygoo

[Parazight 1599]

7 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

 say - why are folk looking for an endgame? Is that where the game ends?

Is there an endgame thing in Minecaft ?

The endgame is streaming, making epic kill videos, and self-promotion.  amirite?

1 hour ago, blackberrygoo said:

why should they “be in the know” as you say , if they are already enjoying what they are doing ? 

Quote

and I agree dayz has more potential than just a shooter , but in all honestly this seems like a salty after-death post passively trying to persuade people to stop kosing

Did you just answer your own question here?

Hard to believe a person would be salty all of a sudden and run to the forums crying after thousands of hours.

[Lexman61 78]

12 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Nobody wants this, or the pregnancy thing, for fucks sake man.

Your statements are ridiculous to the extreme here.

What could be more "immersive" than befriending a female character in DayZ and making her pregnant?! If we want a survivor simulator world than let's simulate all the way (survivors get lonely too). Not to mention the benefits of increasing the game population to offset the rather low current player count. Omnia vincit amor (Virgil). 

Regarding the KOS controversy, I guess some people take this game just a little bit too seriously and want to "impose" a kind of code of conduct on the rest of us. "It's OK to do this but don't do that." Apparently, in spite of all the efforts by some to demonize and condemn KOS play style, it seems to be still very popular after all these years. "Yes, it's those pesky COD kids who ruin everything for us country gentlemen survivors. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

Not having been able to stem the (KOS), tide their last hope is a massive game play intervention by the devs to discourage, limit and punish anything KOS related. 

Whatever.....

Regards

Edited June 18, 2018 by Lexman61

[bfisher 561]

20 hours ago, cirkular said:

That's an interesting thought :) But I couldn't say it's the virus. It's the original human nature. Or rather a nature of any living being in the ecosystem and the ultimate goal is security, and if that means domination too, fine. Because there's hunger, thirst and fear and everyone is succumbed to it. You couldn't believe what a human is capable for when surviving? Now you can have a glimpse of it. For humans, it's things like hope and the resource-securing civilized life that put a curtain on all of that. But it's still only a curtain and Dayz simply takes it down in my opinion. The complaints about other players' play style is something I feel hasn't got to do with Dayz itself. The more extreme example for this is "hey, I've been in war and people shot at me!" And these play styles are not really subject to change. I'd rather complain about what we can't do in the game or how are we doing it, compared to real life. :)

In one view, there is less work for developers when creating a world open such as this, but in the other, they have to build all these mechanics instead that you didn't have in other FPS or other genre games. There are far less rules, except survival, and the easiest choice for players is to decide to survive by any means. And then you get "bandits". The others pursue some kind of hope and want to give hope to others, so we have "heroes". Some players gravitate between both, in the grey areas. Everyone is still driven by hunger, thirst and fear. So I think it's all good. :)

 DayZ is a bit more brutal than real life I think.  There are no consequences in DayZ and few incentives to team up long term.  I think in an actual post-apocalyptic scenario, few people who go it alone KoSing everyone they came across would last long.  There is safety, companionship and other support in numbers.  You need people to watch your back while you sleep.  Or complement skills you don't have.

Plus I've found that there are enough players who want more than KoS Battlegrounds play that I've had some decent interactions once we've managed to get beyond the "do I murder this fool before he kills me" stage.

 

[Lexman61 78]

"90% of players are unimaginative simpletons"

This sounds very similar to the famous phrase "basket of deplorables" delivered by Hilary Clinton during a 2016 presidential election campaign speech.

Far from my intention to comment on the veracity of this statement, but I do remember it caused a tremendous backlash. 

Better to use irony than insults!

Regards

[comikz 218]

On 6/17/2018 at 8:07 AM, creature said:

Triggered are the people crying about KOS in this game. We call them snowflakes. The fact that you came running to defend it, shows you fit the bill too. Good day.

What about the people who come running, to only lash out at people offering a different way to look at the game, and an opinion on how a different playstyle may give them a bit more enjoyment? Are they not also, "Snowflakes", people who get all their feelings hurt that someone is calling into question, they're lack of intelligence because those people out right refuse to do anything but point and shoot, when there is so much more open to them? But let me guess, since there isn't any hard-forced mechanics in game to encourage survivor cooperation, you feel that all there is to do, is KoS?

Seems you fit the bill pretty nice, too.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

6 hours ago, Lexman61 said:

Not having been able to stem the (KOS), tide their last hope is a massive game play intervention by the devs to discourage, limit and punish anything KOS related. 

The scarcity of loot (ammo) and the more dangerous infected are already causing people to KoS less.

No "massive" game play intervention needed.

Further implementation of moisture, temperature, disease, and balancing of all factors, will discourage players further from knee jerk murder.

I don't usually get angry when I get KoS'd these days. I often blame myself. I was KoS'd recently and I chocked it up to my own inattention and carelessness when I entered a potentially dangerous area. I did not scout the area I was entering or watch my 6 much as I approached and someone shot me down for my can of peaches. There was no rage post here from me, just the thought that I should have been more careful and a brief sigh followed by respawn.

I have rules for how I engage players personally but I don't try to impose them on others.

If I see you first, I will likely call out to you. If you immediately try to attack I either fight or flight depending on the perceived success rate of either option. If I have a fairly clear and safe way to exit the scenario without either of us dying, I will likely try to run first. If I am then pursued, I will try to find a geographic vantage point from where I can mount an offensive er, defense. If you talk with me I will probably offer supplies or a trade if I'm looking for something but I will not let you get anywhere near melee range or turn my back to you. I'm not actively looking for people to partner with, I don't know why KoS types think that's all neutral players want, I have people on my friends list for that purpose, but I do like a random neutral encounter mixed in with my instant aggro encounters.

None of this prevents KoS but at least opens the interaction up to all the possibilities before it just turns into a firefight.

[Mantasisg 172]

6 hours ago, Lexman61 said:

"90% of players are unimaginative simpletons"

This sounds very similar to the famous phrase "basket of deplorables" delivered by Hilary Clinton during a 2016 presidential election campaign speech.

Far from my intention to comment on the veracity of this statement, but I do remember it caused a tremendous backlash. 

Better to use irony than insults!

Regards

SO...

90% of players are super creative, and fun to interact with - dayz never was so great, I can't believe that so many great people are able to enjoy this elite game which is totally perfect by all means, devs always are listening and are lovely people, we all share incredibly pleasant beautiful and positive time, because we actually have a great time searching for loot the whole time, it is fun. 

Now honestly, not joking. Face the truth, the game is not benefiting creativity at this moment. There are a couple of nice new DayZ videos in YT at the moment, and I actually can't imagine how much time they spent to make them, or they have planned them somehow. If you are about to launch DayZ randomly, alone, chances are low to get some fine experience. It has been big problem for a long time. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Mantasisg

[cirkular 178]

7 hours ago, bfisher said:

 DayZ is a bit more brutal than real life I think.  There are no consequences in DayZ and few incentives to team up long term.  I think in an actual post-apocalyptic scenario, few people who go it alone KoSing everyone they came across would last long.  There is safety, companionship and other support in numbers.  You need people to watch your back while you sleep.  Or complement skills you don't have.

Plus I've found that there are enough players who want more than KoS Battlegrounds play that I've had some decent interactions once we've managed to get beyond the "do I murder this fool before he kills me" stage.

 

I get it, and it is the way to go for people in any tough situation. But there is always someone who thinks he can profit in the situation. Or someone who has really low tolerance and just looses his mind in the group. So I must add something to some of your points. And I apologize to all for another longer post :) never meaning to lecture, just posting some thoughts and reminders which just turn into a long one.

There are no consequences in a lawless god forbidden corner of some afflicted country where it doesn't seem to be any solution or hope in a foreseeable future. At least, the bandit feels that way and doesn't really think long-term that much. If he does, he is just sure of himself, that he is doing good so far and sees no end to it. We know that we are also limited in Dayz with how can we recognize a person as opposed to real life.

The incentive to team up is the fact that you're not going alone through this. That's the first important thing for everyone. Assuming you are all in the same mindset. So in the same manner, nothing stops the bandits to team up also, so they can watch their backs and prey on now much easier targets. I believe it is not likely they will fight over the spoils, or similar. They are a team too. Some time ago, I managed to see this guy in Cherno, we both had guns, but he started talking first and was friendly. So we went on across pretty much the whole map. Turns out the guy was a PVP monster, not sparing anyone on our way. We still play together sometimes. Which reminds me that a lot of Dayz players play with people who they already knew beforehand, with the help of Teamspeak and Discord. Anyway, if a bandit was alone, and comes up on a group or a single well geared person, he wouldn't even attack and especially expose himself if he feels he doesn't have an upper hand. 

This other thing is how we perceive KOSers in the first place. There are good chances that many of the KOS we've all suffered are actually done by people who were either jumpscared, or simply had so many KOS on them before and we caught them in griefing moments. For some, this is also a chance to be a real badass and play on someone's trust only to shoot them when they're not looking. That also happens all the time, and it's probably too exciting to miss out on that :D Or just to be able to make a good ambush and shoot anyone who comes down that road. Easy loot. But I think we are all pretty much still in a learning process, some more, some less. I really can't tell what are the probabilities if someone is a friendly or a hostile. We can only rely on the perception we receive from the game, and some experience.

Yesterday I was playing 0.63 exp for a bit, and while I was looting one house, I thought I caught just a glimpse of someone passing by the window going for the door. In a split second I thought "OK, if that was really someone I saw there, clearly they could've seen me in there but didn't talk at all." So I immediately pulled out the iZH rifle I've had on my back. I fired a shot the moment a figure appeared, as there was no more time for me to talk before they entered, but luckily I just missed. It turned out to be a friendly person who didn't see me in there at all, and had absolutely nothing on them. :D

[Buakaw 274]

On 6/16/2018 at 4:33 PM, nl said:

Been playing exp. for a few hours and met I guess 10 players, only 1 actually interacted with me and the rest just try to beat you to death the moment they see you. I know, nothing new but it is just off putting sometimes. Such a shame so many players really have no idea what the potential of this platform is and why it can be so much more rewarding to make an effort to interact with each other.

Unimaginative rant the kind a simpleton would do

"it can be so much more rewarding to make an effort to interact with each other" yeah, right. I love meaningless smalltalk with random people and sharing apples.
 

[Buakaw 274]

4 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Further implementation of moisture, temperature, disease, and balancing of all factors, will discourage players further from knee jerk murder.

How will temperature, moisture and disease discourage KOSing again?

edit: doublepost, cant add a quote to previous post. :/

Edited June 18, 2018 by Buakaw

[emuthreat 2837]

13 hours ago, Lexman61 said:

Regarding the KOS controversy, I guess some people take this game just a little bit too seriously and want to "impose" a kind of code of conduct on the rest of us.

Thank you yet again, for the hyperbole. 
I think what people are getting at, is that in the past Experimental servers used to have more of a cooperative spirit of discovery between players who chose that branch.  Since the times between patches have been longer, more people just hop over to the new version for more of the same.

In regards to the larger issue of the game being an open-ended battle royale for many of the players, much of this can be solved by like-minded players coming together on certain servers to push back against the regression towards the mean. (pun only slightly intended) 

There are certain things that might help players to interact beyond simple point and shoot gameplay; little things that the developers can add to incentivise players to see if information sharing is a better option than looting a corpse.  I remember before when wardrobes were briefly persistent world containers, along with refrigerators.  Adding the ability to lock these with a tough combination lock, or even have a few buildings with a gun safe sprinkled around the map, would cause players to see others as a possible resource when left living.  They can of course, just eventually backstab that person as well.  I think the idea here is that the game plays much more richly when less than 80% of players camp cities looking for victims or rove around looking to immediately shoot everyone they see.  Plenty of people still play the game that way, and on servers with consistent populations of regular players, they are often identified fairly soon and hunted.  The game has ways of balancing these things out through populations' behavior and preferences.  It's just that it would be nice if a few more factors were in the mix to incentivise player choices.  If I'm not mistaken, this is why shooting people ruins their inventories, but that basically just incentivised players to go for headshots..

I'm assuming that if the devs intended DayZ to be no more than a platform to run around and shoot people, they could have stopped working on it years ago.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

3 hours ago, Buakaw said:

How will temperature, moisture and disease discourage KOSing again?

edit: doublepost, cant add a quote to previous post. :/

I believe any survival elements introduced increase the amount of time it takes to get healthy and geared properly (and stay that way) making it more challenging and time consuming for people to embark on rinse and repeat death match missions. Camps and clans may impact this some but for smaller groups and solo players the struggle will be real.

If you're hot or cold, you'll be physically penalized with added sway or reduced stamina, or both, making PvP more difficult.

If it's raining and you don't have water proof gear and bag, will you risk getting ammo wet or becoming cold with rain to fight someone random out in the pouring rain?

If you are sick from drinking pond water or tainted meat, will you risk engaging every player you come across as you look for antibiotics while you're shaking, limping about, and possibly vomiting?

People will rush onto here complaining about each of these elements as they are implemented, guaranteed. Some of us are looking forward to them.

 

 

[Guy Smiley 534]

56 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

 

People will rush onto here complaining about each of these elements as they are implemented, guaranteed.

 

Oh they already have and the harsher elements aren't even in game yet lol

[Parazight 1599]

1 hour ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

I believe any survival elements introduced increase the amount of time it takes to get healthy and geared properly (and stay that way) making it more challenging and time consuming for people to embark on rinse and repeat death match missions. Camps and clans may impact this some but for smaller groups and solo players the struggle will be real.

In addition, radios.   

I'm really hoping radios and other forms of communication will offer more options for interesting interaction.  I try to talk with strangers that I meet, when possible.  When people are forced to humanize dayz players it seems that they're less likely to attack you by default, in my experience.

[Uncle Zed 272]

I was killed more today from other players than I have ever been killed in DayZ (Stand alone or mod) before. Hell, I was killed by a guy with a water bottle while I had a machete. It's a madhouse I tell ya!

[Lexman61 78]

The fundamental assumption that KOS is a problem is - I think -  often based on a false premise.

If KOS is considered by some to be a negative and/or disruptive behavior,  then its positive counterpart must necessarily be a non hostile and/or socially friendly conduct (interact first, shoot later). This reasoning then automatically leads to the notion that, there is a proper and/or correct way to behave whilst playing DayZ (positive), VS an unacceptable and/or undesirable manner (negative).

This goes against the whole basic idea of what video gaming is about.

DayZ can be played in a team spirited and socially interactive way but this a personal choice and NOT the "unofficial--rule-book-way" to adhere to if you want to play with others.

What makes the DayZ game concept so unique is an open world full of anarchy, uncertainty, cold blooded murderers and socially minded characters which all co-exist until the next bullet. What you choose to be and how to behave in this context must always and ultimately be your personal decision (no strings attached).

Regards

[emuthreat 2837]

5 hours ago, Lexman61 said:

What makes the DayZ game concept so unique...

Are you sure about that?  I always thought it was the possibility for more various and layered interactions not generally found in other titles that made DayZ so unique.

[Lexman61 78]

1 hour ago, emuthreat said:

Are you sure about that?  I always thought it was the possibility for more various and layered interactions not generally found in other titles that made DayZ so unique.

Yes, DayZ gives you more game play options and social interactions to exploit if you wish so. But this does not imply that you necessarily  are obliged to make use of them.

Most of the anti KOS opinions are still based on the false premise of a "right" way to play DayZ vs a "wrong" way. This is a totally unacceptable and extremely arrogant and self righteous stance. 

The very essence of the DayZ gaming experience is to give you multiple possibilities and options to play in any way you want to.

Regards 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Lexman61

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 6/18/2018 at 6:08 AM, blackberrygoo said:

t proper survival features like soft skills , base building , hordes — you know , stuff that really makes people think twice about kos and more about building communities .

every apocalypse survival film I've ever seen has base building communities of KoSers in it..  and that goes pretty much for human history too.    just saying   

Edited June 19, 2018 by pilgrim*
~

[Parazight 1599]

22 minutes ago, Lexman61 said:

Most of the anti KOS opinions are still based on the false premise of a "right" way to play DayZ vs a "wrong" way. This is a totally unacceptable and extremely arrogant and self righteous stance. 

The very essence of the DayZ gaming experience is to give you multiple possibilities and options to play in any way you want to.

Hilarious.

If you re-read the very first post in this thread you'll notice that nl only says that it's a shame that people don't explore more options than just KoS.  Nowhere does he say that KoS is 'wrong'.  In fact, there are exactly zero posts in this thread that claim KoS is unacceptable. 

This thread has 2 distinct opinions.  Those who say,

"it's a shame that some people only KoS and don't experience the full potential"

and the other people who say,..

"DONT TELL ME NOT TO KOS"  (why is it that these people don't understand, i ask?)

Even more entertaining is that your second statement here supports the OP's very stance.

WTF is going on?  When did i get to bizarro world?!?!

[pilgrim* 3514]

35 minutes ago, Lexman61 said:

Yes, DayZ gives you more game play options and social interactions to exploit if you wish so. But this does not imply that you necessarily  are obliged to make use of them.

Most of the anti KOS opinions are still based on the false premise of a "right" way to play DayZ vs a "wrong" way. This is a totally unacceptable and extremely arrogant and self righteous stance. 

The very essence of the DayZ gaming experience is to give you multiple possibilities and options to play in any way you want to.

Regards 

yes - but as soon as modding turns up then the whole chaotic DayZ experience totally fragments into private severs each running their own "safe" version of the apocalypse, where only "what they want", happens. 
Then it's not the breakdown of society anymore, it's just clubland.
 

[Sqeezorz 839]

11 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

yes - but as soon as modding turns up then the whole chaotic DayZ experience totally fragments into private severs each running their own "safe" version of the apocalypse, where only "what they want", happens. 
Then it's not the breakdown of society anymore, it's just clubland.
 

I agree. and this will also be the starting point in which the big boredom will creep in. The variety is missing, and Vanilla is the only version that offers this diversity for ALL game styles.
PVE pure ... what do you build a safe base for?
PVP pure ... why does not anyone build a base to crack.

Dayz will always provide the best experience when every style of play will be in mixed proportions.

The title here is:
90% of players are unimaginable simpletons.

This thread would never have been created when it would be:
50% of players are unimaginitive simpletons.

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 6/18/2018 at 12:18 PM, Lexman61 said:

"90% of players are unimaginative simpletons"

This sounds very similar to the famous phrase "basket of deplorables" delivered by Hilary Clinton during a 2016 presidential election campaign speech.

Far from my intention to comment on the veracity of this statement, but I do remember it caused a tremendous backlash. 

Better to use irony than insults!

Regards

seems to me 90% of people, like me, are what you might call real-life unimaginative simpletons (if they play video games or not) and their MAIN aim right now is to look out for THEMSELVES, not anyone they don' know,  even inside a framework of law and order (because someone else does that "law and order" for you, right?)
And if you check Youtube you see again and again the MAIN ADVICE for a collapse of society is what weapons you need and how to make sure you kill the other bastads before they get your stuff - because THEY are all unimaginative simpletons, and YOU are the smart geared up one who shoots first.   LOT of web info telling you THAT is how you win.
(.. scuse me, i'm pointing this out because i'm an "Imaginative" simpleton). 
- show me the Youtube vids that explain to real people how to make friends and form communities .. are there many?

[Lexman61 78]

14 minutes ago, Parazight said:

Hilarious.

If you re-read the very first post in this thread you'll notice that nl only says that it's a shame that people don't explore more options than just KoS.  Nowhere does he say that KoS is 'wrong'.  In fact, there are exactly zero posts in this thread that claim KoS is unacceptable. 

This thread has 2 distinct opinions.  Those who say,

"it's a shame that some people only KoS and don't experience the full potential"

and the other people who say,..

"DONT TELL ME NOT TO KOS"  (why is it that these people don't understand, i ask?)

Even more entertaining is that your second statement here supports the OP's very stance.

WTF is going on?  When did i get to bizarro world?!?!

People who enjoy KOS (for whatever reasons), don't need to be "advised or informed" by other players that their not "experiencing the game's full potential" (which basically means): "you really aren't playing this game completely right". Says who?

Besides the fact that, most KOS players are perfectly aware of the social interaction options that DayZ offers but, choose (once again for whatever reasons), to ignore them. So please spare me the veiled patronizing tone of "let me kindly inform you on how this game really works and let me tell you about the alternatives to KOS ". Thanks, but no thanks!

The other category of anti KOS advocates are the "purists" who despise KOS play no matter what. They are obviously the dogmatic crowd who " have seen the light" and want to impose their "right" way of playing DayZ. Whoever disagrees with them is treated as an heretic.

Personally, I really don't see any substantial difference between the two groups as their basic message is the same.

Not really that confusing if you open your eyes!

Regards