90% of players are unimaginitive simpletons

[sneakydude 480]

Oh its dangerous being a sniper kited out anywhere. When you think you got your kill down, another sniper has homed in on you. At least it was this way over a yr or two ago when we had actual player bases.

[emuthreat 2837]

Any sniper that wants to last more than an hour will need to have at the least, an overwatch partner.  It doesn't hurt to have overwatch as well as a couple of counter assault players.  Most snipers I've seen don't survive more than 15 minutes without moving at least half a kilometer to scope out their old perch for the response.
The roving shoot and scoot opportunistic approach seems to be the most successful in the long term.  The same sniper firing maybe only twice per hour, with careful repositioning in between seems to have been the hardest to combat.

I gotta respect the players who can rack up half a dozen kills in a single lifespan.  It all depends on the server, the current population, and the prevailing meta of the server.

Needless to say, bambis don't count as kills. lol

[pilgrim* 3514]

4 hours ago, emuthreat said:

Any sniper that wants to last more than an hour will need to have at the least, an overwatch partner.
..//..

well, like any other "dark side of the force" player, a sniper can always hop servers while staying in a good chosen position ...
but that's moving into a whole other thread-knot  that has been going on for a bunch of years,
and I notice the Xbox folk have just started it up again.. 

I think it's great that the new blood has recently noticed KOS and Hoppers and started to COMMENT on these strange human activities..
PC players seem to have already got their heads around the existence of KOS and Hoppers as part of the basic UNFAIRNESS of DayZ the Game Itself, and found out various ways to deal with those things. Nobody on PC is "shocked" by them anymore.
Perhaps PC players can imagine IRL, in an apocalypse, some folk sometimes being really unfair, without breaking gameplay rules, and some people actually ignoring social censure to get what they want?   =!!!!=   (those BAD people!) .  PC players have sorted out an attitude to them and everyone has a personal solution, they are a part of the game.

I hope Xbox players don"t start off expect DayZ to be FAIR ?   (in ANY way)

There aren't any points or medals handed out in this game for having a good attitude or being nice & there is no moral code except the one you invent for yourself. If you invent it and stick to it then maybe you will feel good about that, maybe it will work, or maybe you will get eaten by folk who disagree, or maybe you will start an organization - or start up a private server where "shoot first" gets you kicked,  or "bad language" gets you banned, or you may even find it necessary to do do things you feel bad about. Or you may not care - some players play just to play (I don't know why) . 

DayZ is NOT fair.. That's the Game. There are no points and no wins except the ones you invent for yourself in your head.

Already half the Xbox players on the Forum are saying the Game is TOO EASY and the other half are complaining about Hoppers and KOS.

-{sigh} - and they're just weeks into their Xbox Beta ??  

xxP

[fuzzy_chimera 25]

I personally find it funny that people expect DayZ to be fair, to me it seems like such a joke as a whole that people play with a rule set and expect others to play along in the same vain. It's quite amusing that the console players are now just noticing how shady people are in general with behavior and antics. That us PC players are very aware of, it will be interesting to see how the console DayZ works out in the future.

When it comes back to players not having any creativity, think of the general population and how they behave. Now cut that back input of creativity and that is your general population and how they behave is all about that "me myself and I" mentality. I do believe personally that is the problem, not so much the players need to be spoon fed content instead of creating their own fun, just don't think people aren't capable. That is just how it is, the amount of times i've been told by old friends who used to play DayZ with me how they can't find the fun in it anymore, it comes back to the less ways to kill things less ways to find guns to kill things. Like that is a wide scope of most people just want to shoot others with their loot, less about anything else.

Edited September 8, 2018 by fuzzy_chimera

[emuthreat 2837]

3 hours ago, fuzzy_chimera said:

I personally find it funny that people expect DayZ to be fair, to me it seems like such a joke as a whole that people play with a rule set and expect others to play along in the same vain. It's quite amusing that the console players are now just noticing how shady people are in general with behavior and antics. That us PC players are very aware of, it will be interesting to see how the console DayZ works out in the future.

When it comes back to players not having any creativity, think of the general population and how they behave. Now cut that back input of creativity and that is your general population and how they behave is all about that "me myself and I" mentality. I do believe personally that is the problem, not so much the players need to be spoon fed content instead of creating their own fun, just don't think people aren't capable. That is just how it is, the amount of times i've been told by old friends who used to play DayZ with me how they can't find the fun in it anymore, it comes back to the less ways to kill things less ways to find guns to kill things. Like that is a wide scope of most people just want to shoot others with their loot, less about anything else.

To your first point: For the uninitiated player who came to DayZ without any prior knowledge of BI games and the milsim mentality, they were likely drawn in by the prospect of a large scale zombie apocalypse survival scenario.  I certainly was.  Without firsthand experience of how this plays out in a sandbox, people's expectations were likely influenced by print and film media relating to the genre, in which people had to band together to survive, and work towards common goals to eke out a comfortable and sustainable existence.  Much of this comes down to the game just not being hard enough to warrant that type of concern in the playerbase.  If the map had closer to 10,000 zombies, or dynamic event based spawns, this might be more feasible; though I'm sure a portion of players would still live to be a disruptive force.

Sadly, this game would be arguably much the same without zombies.  Just a place where people gear up and try to kill everyone they see for the most part.

I would find it much more interesting if they designed a sandbox with more dynamic forces directing and reacting to player behavior.  Perhaps a few factions of NPCs with bases and agendas and goals would fit the bill.  General categories of motivation would be order, chaos and neutrality.  A highly organized group that tries to rebuild civilization and order, and to secure the world for human survival; a semi-organized alliance of bandits who pool resources and generally don't kill each other, but who pillage and disrupt organized good; a loose confederation of unaffiliated scavenger survivors who neither wish to participate in the reordering of the world, nor wreak wanton destruction, who forage, scavenge, farm, and trade with all parties when conditions permit.
Within this framework, players could choose to work for chaos, or order, or neither; and the NPC groups would keep and share a hidden tally of interactions towards these ends, based only on direct observable contact, and treat each player accordingly.  If a particular steam ID killed too many neutral scavengers, word may spread among that group, but not necessarily inform the actions of the ordered good, or chaotic evil NPCs.  Likewise, a player who participated in missions for the orderly good NPCs which did not involve direct conflict with the chaotic evil, might still be able to demonstrate a tolerance for savagery which would give them a measure of deference from the evil ones, while maintaining a good standing with the good; so long as their paths never crossed.  To this effect, a player "outed" to either or both groups might face alienation on said server, especially if their work for the evil group of NPCs involved robbery and murder of the neutral scavenger.

Lacking any kind of organizational features to the game (or distasteful magical punishments for antisocial behavior)  the game will always suffer from a regression towards the mean.  Some, possibly a majority, kill for fun; because of this some will kill or be killed; fewer still impose a set of personal standards and ROE.
The end result of this is that the KOS percolates through the playstyles of almost all other players by necessity, to avoid banging one's head against the wall.

The only real solution to this, if one is to believe this is a problem, is for players to choose a server and stick to it; to become familiar with other players and groups, and to try to organize into a larger structure that furthers their goals and expectations.
Some servers have done this, and in .62 and before, it was pretty much a crapshoot for a number of reasons. Not least of which was that the 100-200 regulars who supported an ethos would normally number less than a third of the total instantaneous population at best, and were often less than 5% of the total regular population of transient KOS players; many of who may cultivate a handful of characters on weeknights, for a tour of destruction on the weekend--simply hopping to the next geared account on a different server to shoot whatever was in front of them after dying on another server.
Many of these same types of players would routinely install glitched storage bases to facilitate long term missions of destructive interference.

Things that might help to combat this, if we are to assume that check pulse for names is out, would be to issue dog tags to fresh spawns, and to conspicuously log players' in-server name changes for admins to help prevent cheap impersonations.  If someone wants to bandit by impersonation, they should have to establish a base and gather resources to permit the forgery of dog tags; not simply ID a target group member, kill oneself, and respawn with tags bearing that name.  In this manner, players of a private server can come to know who is who and get a feeling for how players behave and who can or cannot be trusted.  The anonymity and ability to assume a new name at will, allows players with no goals other than murder to operate at a distinct advantage to honest and cooperative players.  In a certain sense, the current and previous SA game design favors the anonymous server hopping KOS playerbase to the detriment of those who wish to organize and cooperate.  I might add that anyone who might oppose this idea, is likely a troll who wants to be able to kill and backstab other players over time with impunity outside of instantaneous reactions; once the offending player is dead, they can simply cycle names and come back to the same base to meet a different person who may not know their voice; or in many cases I've observed, use an accent or otherwise alter their voice to get an upper hand.  Not to say that changing one's voice or accent is a bad thing, but unless they steal a rando's dogtags or manufacture their own, it should not be quite so easy to repeatedly infiltrate a groups base to simply troll and kill people.

I'm okay with players having to impose their own rules and order within the mechanics of the game, but it would be nice if the devs would make an effort to facilitate this for us better, rather than passively favoring the chaotic evil playstyle.  They sure don't need any help...

Edited September 8, 2018 by emuthreat

[Sooden 301]

14 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

or medals handed out in this game for having a good attitude or being nice

you haven't seen my wall in RL :P

----

After reading 'emuthreat' short book, i have a feeling we are gonna hear... 'we don't need npc, this system or that...' and that is old thinking :( old thinking for any game that have a persistent player and PvP (I thought dazy was about how long you can survive).

Can't say i player a lots of games, mainly watch them, play one intently at a time, for months (Autism thing :P) but it seems very few games address the KOS / random / out of place killing, that happens in all games where you can kill another player. It's kinda accepted as a norm, and never challenged, but it is a flaw in some games. (Has been adressed in elite dangerous, a space game, to balance risk and reward, counting the players experience as a reward, and each should have the same opportunity to that reward)

so risky to address it, and so easy to mess up, but here is why it needs addressing (If dayz is not just another FPS). Its a Game;

-You die you re-spawn. But if you playing one way, kill all, the game works, you get your challenges, you get kills, you get killed. You re-spawn. (FPS)

-If you playing the survivor or even a hero. you may get killed by someone, that sucks, may happen a lot and by the same person or group. Now, what your meant to do, is take out the threat, but its a game... you cant!

Once you kill someone, they re-spawn. now, even with this being for both sides. its a very different risk and reward for each player.

The 'hero' kills to remove a threat and work with others (not an easy job, but fun, so many death :P), but within a short time, the threat is back. If we do the IRL thing.... if a fox is killing your hens, you can kill it, it doesn't re-spawn, sure another will come along at some point.... But imagine if it did >< you have one fox, then 2 as another come along, kill them, but they re-spawn... then you have a 3rd come along.. Eeek, you cant reduce the threat. One side of the player style is disadvantaged (become pointless to play one way over another).

No problem with a player killing another out of fear or for lols, but as they can come back (its a game) it's as if the are an unlimited number of phycos, and this is what is offputing to the othere side of the player base. Its not a simulated part of survival, it so Gamy, it hurts... but this is an issue lots of games have

Now here is the big different of when KoSing or Deathmaters needs addressing in a game and is part of the game.

We have Pubg. all player are there to kill each other. one goal, you an your team must win. no one is playing it for a persistent survival experience.

Dayz, as i saw it, was sold as a long term survival game (if you can mange to) where you build up communities and bases even plant vegetable. Bandits are a key part of the game... Yes Bandits. Not everyone wants to farm. But there is no balance between the longer term player and the KOSer (that is no really a bandit)... this also damaged the opportunities to be a Bandit as it no longer a viable players style... (What happened in Elite dangerous, people could not be space pirates, even though it was planned as part of the game, as there was so little risk to just killing someone, one of the reasons it was addresses - after years of debate ><)

if you fail as a KOSer, fail to kill another player, be it for fun or for loot (This is why snipers would not be a KOSer >>) you can quickly quickly kit up again and try again. where as, someone that had build up a stash, pick kit for looks/RP... they die, they cant get back to where they are for a while. Don't get me wrong, a kill is a kill, but understand, the game is geared to the enjoyment of the FPS fragmaster over survival aspect, and this could only be addressed with systems... and Dayz is not gonna, dosnt mean they did it right :P

-----

Summery: both Friendly and Koser player re-spawn, seams fair...

Friendly player can re spawn again and then hunt down the Koser player so it equal? Nope, the friendly player is now drawn into the FPS loop, and not what they though dayz was about. also the reason for my other post where i ask what direction the game is taking (only fair to let people know :)

JUST TO BE CLEAR: not saying stop pvp, or KOSer, game would be so dull, risk is needed, just saying it not balanced for the type of game i though dayz wanted to be.

Also, things may never change; will play dazy as it is, for what it is. Just wanna point out that there is an issue, a hard issue for any dev team to sort, and easier to just let it be. (Private server solve it, so why not let that happen :)

So I may argue my point strongly, doesn’t mean I’m crying in a corner cus something not done, just that I think I have a good point.

Edited September 8, 2018 by soods

[emuthreat 2837]

Just to be clear, I like the idea of an NPC system to enrich and direct player actions, but do not expect or necessarily want this in DayZ, as that would make it an entirely different game and we are talking about DayZ here.

My issue is that DayZ has had from the outset a goal of an authentic/realism approach to the genre, yet the prevailing meta is at odds with that.

This is DayZ, this is your story.  As has been mentioned before, 28 Lays Later, TWD, Land of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead, and numerous other genre titles would have been rendered utterly pointless by the protagonists encountering 85-90 percent KOS situations.  There would be no story, no value to the experience.
Other games have dedicated KOS game types, and I'm sure DayZ could cobble The Survivor Games together into a highly competitive offering with little effort.  i don't know what many others expect from DayZ, but a more content rich shoot and scoot, rinse and repeat sandbox is not what I'm here for.
I want persistence, base building, and some sort of skill and technology progression to invest in.  Weapon cleaning kits are fine for preventing damage from lack of routine maintenance, but they should not restore a damaged or badly damaged weapon to usable status in the field.

I want a real target for those unimaginative simpletons to go after.  Possibly include something to capture their imagination and interest beyond simply collecting and dispensing bullets; perhaps even provide incentive for KOS trolls to take and hold developed bases for the resources and cultivated technological capabilities, rather than the simply taking the oh-so-banal scorched earth policy of raiding bases.  Think of how much differently a posse of bandits would play if they overtook a base with a reloading and gunsmithing shop equipped.  They wouldn't have to go back to the mil bases and risk meaningless death every few hours to sustain their ammo stockpiles.  They could reload and maintain what they already have, and post roadblocks outside the mil bases or industrial cities to try and rob people of their newly scavenged goods.

I am much more in favor of an advanced skill tree than NPC tech vendors to drive player interests and goals.  Things as simple as taking blood or administering morphine could have a threshold of competence and mastery, aided by practicing the first couple times while in possession of a technical manual.  once a player has practised or mastered each distinct skill, that would add incentive to not waste the life by getting into a gunfight for shits and giggles; and add another level of disappointment to getting killed.  Sure, surface level KOS trolls could completely disregard this and still have fun, but they would forever be less capable than those whom they seek to doggedly attack.  And things like this would add much need balance to the ecosystem.

Without any more added depth, I'm afraid DayZ will just be adding coats of lacquer to a distressed and rotting substrate.

[TDsS 7]

2 hours ago, soods said:

.

Sorry, but only thing I read out of this all is that you dont like PVP and dying.                            

Its a sandbox game, only necessary thing to do is get food and drink, there is absolutely no need to build a base / farm or hoard the gear. Its your CHOICE to spend time on those things and you should be prepared to lose them. If you make a base that will stand out, ofcourse people are gonna target you, thats the price. Why should anyone ever care how much you spent time on your character?

And you make re-spawning look way worse than it really is. Map is huge, its hard enough to see players. Getting good spawn takes time, getting gear to travel takes time, getting properly armed takes time. Now I would really love to see who would spend hours after re-spawning just to kill you again and again, you must be hiding a holy grail.

Im also curious, what would be these systems to balance things out? Only solution would be to make guns non existent, because as long as they exist, people will shoot you. There is no need to punish anyone and I dont see how there could ever be a sensible system which will know every circumstance about firefight (voicechat etc.).

 

Overall, I find it really odd how people define and throw around KOS term.

I consider myself to be a KOSer. That doesnt mean Im just gearing up, searching for players to kill, die and repeat. No, I have my own crew who I have played with since mod was launched. We also built bases, farms, repaired & drove vehicles, hunted & crafted and had some great firefights. Only difference is that we just shoot / kill others on sight (and no, we dont get high gear to camp freshspawns on coast or hunt people in general). We are just trying to survive in Chernarus & have fun. I just dont need to have conversation & RP with every random guy I see. Thats why I love Dayz, its not forcing any playstyle on me.

 

All I really see from this thread is some people having fun as it is, and group of hardcore RP fans who demand this game to be much more than it ever could be. They want a simulator where every little detail & human interaction would be polished to the perfection and experience the movie-like journey in the post-apocalyptic world. Sorry, but thats just wishful thinking, closest things for these people will be RP servers. Everyone else AKA the majority of the playerbase will enjoy the game as it is

Edited September 9, 2018 by TDsS

[-Gews- 7443]

 

1 hour ago, TDsS said:

Im also curious, what would be these systems to balance things out? Only solution would be to make guns non existent, because as long as they exist, people will shoot you.

People have suggested ideas going all the way up to "if you kill too many people, your character commits suicide".

[Sooden 301]

1 hour ago, TDsS said:

Sorry, but only thing I read out of this all is that you dont like PVP and dying.                            

really? k, you assume that, but there are videos where i get my self dead for fun, for the video :P or put my self in risk, accepting i could die. It funs. Just tonight i raided a big base, took the ammo and guns in a big Alice backpack, at huge risk, then dumped it all, as i don't need it (ooh all the nice guns, just thrown away :P), i don't use much at all.

But i don't think of myself all the time (asking what i want), half the time i'm just arguing a difficult position cus i like the challenge,or one side it talking trash :P... so no, you have it wrong.

Reason i am passionate about this subject is, the KOSers only see it one way. i'm explaining the other side. Like i said, i will play the game for what it is, but i don't know what it's trying to be.

If i was to assume from your post; you seem to worried that the game may change (it wont...much, if at all), that some balance of risk reward would upset your way of playing. nothing wrong with that. My point is - if dayz is meant to be more than a FPS (on a big map) its not doing it well, as things are out of balance.

I may talk about base building and such, but am i talking about what i want? not really, at most i may have a barrel, if that (and i will probably raid people for food, or ask,or join them for a sort while). I rarely have a back pack as i play the game with minimal loot. So for me to die, not losing much, maybe a .308 silenced pistol and my hatchet.

you say : ''only necessary thing to do is get food and drink''

yup, and even that is to easy, as i shown in a video, where i sit on the coast for 3 hours, living of pears. Dealing with passer-bye , killing one, nearly killing another but gave him CPR. Yup i can PvP. would hate to comment on it having not given it a fair go my self. and it's fun, but it has few risks (as i point out)

you say : ''And you make re-spawning look way worse than it really is''.  out of context... it doesn't matter how big the map is, if a player know where you base is. When you kill them, the risk is not removed (This is a game dev issue, a fact of the game type ,not a moan)

You say: ,''Im also curious, what would be these systems to balance things out? '', i say, lol! not gonna work out complicated system to solve an issue that plagues so many games, a problem that, if a games company could a dress in a component manner, they would really shine... I'm not being payed to solve that issue, but i'm sure i could :) and would not post it here to be spat on :)

You ask because you hope i can't come up with anything good, something for your next post, to try and pull my point apart on a hypothetical. not playing that game,

you say: ''Overall, I find it really odd how people define and throw around KOS term.'' and addressing the following from that line

Yup, that's KOS :) = ''Only difference is that we just shoot / kill others on sight''

 

...and you say 'All I really see from this thread is some people having fun as it is, and group of hardcore RP fans who demand this game to be much more than it ever could be. They want a simulator where every little detail & human interaction would be polished to the perfection and experience the movie-like journey in the post-apocalyptic world. Sorry, but thats just wishful thinking, closest things for these people will be RP servers. Everyone else AKA the majority of the playerbase will enjoy the game as it is'

well if you got any of that from my posts as well, think you missed my point. I just think it's too easy to just kill a player, in what's meant to be a post-apocalyptic style game. ammo is abundant, food on every tree and it re-spawns... water from wells. Its a paradise not survival. Its a playground for low end FPS to come and get some easy kills and your afraid it may get balanced.

Systems aside. If we saw food and ammo reduced and pump that ran dry, ''shoot y mcShooty face'' may just need that ammo for a dear, or to fend off a 10-15 zombie horde (30 at a time would be epic:P), or may even find them selves having to interact with other survivors just to survive, rather than team deathmatch - oh wow, imagine that, dayz where part of the game is, another survivor may be worth more alive than dead :P I mean, if you haven't the 'rocks' to have a stand off, rather, shoot someone if you seem them first, it may not be to your befit, and you may be at a disadvantage in a survival game...

still, all comes back to, what is dayz trying to be. I don't think they know anymore, and it is just a FPS on a big map with some zombies.

----

I have seen streams where people are suffering for no water and food, cus they are in such a rush for kit, and then they come on the forums and say there is no food. Then you have me saying there is to much(and show it).

Never had an issue getting food and high full servers... i think they have changed too longer restart timers, so will test it all again... but these players, starving to death on a 1 hour reset and complaining there is not enough food... no, the fact is, they are not good at the survival aspect and are in rush to kit up... be it for defence or hunting players (<A Koser could be any of them terms, just so we are clear)... so seems it goes both ways, FPSer (that may or may not be Kosers) are not happy about supplies, so maybe they are also misunderstanfing what the game is?

Edited September 9, 2018 by soods
post was still in alpha

[emuthreat 2837]

2 hours ago, TDsS said:

Im also curious, what would be these systems to balance things out? Only solution would be to make guns non existent, because as long as they exist, people will shoot you. There is no need to punish anyone and I dont see how there could ever be a sensible system which will know every circumstance about firefight (voicechat etc.).

Did you not read any of the suggestions?  There have been many of them made for years, some are reasonable and seem feasible even.  Based on your hyperbolic response, I'm assuming you feel targeted and are making an emotional knee jerk response.
You did not respond to the suggestions that the game include more options for gameplay, and incentivize players to explore them through rewards to success and efficiency for valuing the preservation of a spawn-life.

How would it hurt your playstyle if those who chose to do so could carefully survive long enough to see benefits from cumulative experience at certain actions; get more meat and vegetables per harvest, or take less time to change a tire, get higher quality/faster results from medical procedures, or use less consumable resources to maintain clothing and equipment?

And yes, you are absolutely a KOS player.  No judgement  I KOS at times out of boredom, or having to be someplace and not wanting to risk entanglements.  But by-and-large, I prefer interactions and value meeting new players; even when playing as part of a very familiar group.  I understand that some people like to get together with the same team and go hunt other players, or do whatever, not wanting to be bothered or risk losing a member of the group, and that's just fine.  KOS is a fact of life in DayZ and nobody here is talking about forcing it out.

What I have seen, are appeals to add more value to character lifespans, to incentivize more players to take that risk and reach out to others in the world.  Experience based skill improvements, with such a slow return on time spent so as to prevent farming skills, and add true value to experienced specialist player lifespans.  Things like having someone who has mastered mechanic skills being able to repair a tire fully with less than 25% of a patch kit remaining, so that a group like yours might just want to reach out to that lone traveler and ask for help before turning his screen to black; as even that would be a far richer experience that your stated MO would provide to the community.  It's not about a bandit skin, or murderers going insane and hearing things over time.  it's about adding depth of field to passively influence the choices available to players and their motivations for making them.

That being said...  You reduction of the argument to hardcore RP fanatics, or regular joes just trying to have a good time is, well, reductive.  The notion that you don't value more diverse and developed player interactions does not render them less valuable to the player base as a whole, but comes closer to defining yourself as a kid who is just as happy melting your legos with a magnifying glass as others are by building things with them.  Again, this is not a personal jab, I don't care what you do with your legos. Though if you try melt them on my stretch of sidewalk, I'll try to block out the sun and make you move on.
On a server that I frequent, interaction is encouraged, and organically enforced by groups of regulars with shared interests who communicate regularly.  Groups such as yours would quickly find their way onto a growing list of players who are not met with kindness or understanding. 
Organic, in-game, countermeasures; as it should be.

But just because you don't see what it is that others find enjoyable about trying to do something objectively more difficult, complex, and unique with this game, does not render our opinions any less viable.
Perhaps it's even the opposite.  You are satisfied trolloping around with a closed group and killing anyone you encounter. 
You do not want, nor need any more complexity or facilitation of deeper game mechanics to gain any richer of an experience from this game. 

With that in mind, what have you to contribute to this discussion, aside from the prudent gesture of recusal?  To scoff at people with more developed interests and motives?
 

Edit:  After reading up a couple posts made while typing this out, and re-reading this one, I decided to clarify a bit.
Some of this may sound elitist, and that was not necessarily my intent. While I make the assertion that some playstyles are intrinsically more developed than simple KOS, it is an attempt at objective assessment, rather than out of derision.
To clarify, I like fishing in moving water with spinners, bucktail jigs, and rapalas.  I consider this to be intrinsically more complex and skilled than sitting minnows on the bottom of a lake.  And I understand trolling with downriggers to be more complex and skilled than my river methods.  Objectively.

Edited September 9, 2018 by emuthreat
appendix

[Sooden 301]

12 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

... or having to be someplace and not wanting to risk entanglements. ...

i bet you say sorry, ''i'm busy'' as the blast hits them :)

Chances are, cus i have learnt the hard way, i would KOS when at a military location. Its needed sometimes (unspoken rule by now), even if the people there may have skills i need :P

Edited September 9, 2018 by soods

[emuthreat 2837]

4 minutes ago, soods said:

i bet you say sorry, ''i'm busy'' as the blast hits them :)

Chances are, cus i have learnt the hard way, i would KOS when at a military location. Its needed sometimes (unspoken rule by now), even if the people there may have skills i need :P

Duuuuuude.  Some of my richest interactions have been from getting the drop on people at military locations, and not shooting first.  Even had a couple of mutual panic-shooting-to-apology situations happen.  Seeing a player at Tisy tents and telling them that i've already looted the whole base,and asking if there was anyting in particular they wanted was a pretty good way to make a new friend and ally.  A few times I met friends of friends who recognized my name, or relative strangers I've maybe met once earlier and who were glad they didn't shoot before.  A few times i've met complete strangers who tell me that they usually kill everyone there regardless, but found my behavior so strange that they want to see where things go. I've found that unless they are with a partner who tells them via TS to shoot, most players will appreciate the gesture.  Once I saw a member of a faction whose leader I had been talking to, and was considering killing him for the FAL on his back until we had a standoff on opposite sides of a wall and realized we knew some of the same people.

One of my favorites was running towards gunshots at Tisy that had the tempo and duration of someone defending from wolves.  Luckily one of the two Russians I encountered spoke some english, and his friend got a very good laugh when he translated what I said to them.  Some random dude running up to you in a military base and asking if it's okay to take the meat and pelts from the wolves you just dispatched was apparently a first for them.

My best PVP encounter didn't even end with anybody dying.  I was running back to base on a fresh life with only an IZH shotgun and a child briefcase; the dayshift of Europeans having just logged out or died and won't  be making it back that day.  I came to the gates to find a couple of cagey players making a poor effort of pretending to be in charge of the place, unaware that I knew the guards and most of the regulars in that time slot.  After realizing that i didn't buy their act, and wasn't going to come in to get shot, they went back to trying to despawn the base and shoot me as each opportunity became available.  I had a good time of running off into the woods and creeping back to the walls quietly, taking potshots through the tents, metal buildings, and fences as I heard footsteps.  They took up into a blue door tin catwalk and I had great fun putting pellets through the walls after darting around to get them to fire and give up their position. Eventually, I took enough hits that my last 6 shotshells were ruined, and I had to retreat to go loot for 15 minutes.  I came back to find the place deserted, with just a couple tents packed but not yet despawned.

But the other things I found brought literal tears of joy to my eyes.
Tent after tent was littered with evidence of my relative measures of incremental success:  A pair of ruined boots and pants here.  A ruined assault vest there.  A ruined helmet and jacket.  Tent after tent of discarded ruined clothing, hastily replaced after taking a hit.  It was like a living history museum of the hilarity that had ensued less than a half hour before (I was talking mad shit the whole time while blasting through the walls at them). I reckon I tagged them at least six times throughout the whole ordeal, just by counting the pants.  I survived, the threat had left the area, and the base was repairable.  Who gives a damn if nobody died?

All of these are things I remember and value more than any of the countless kills that all blend together.  The shameful pot-shots to steal loot, the panic fire of chance face-to-face bumblings, the last man standing after a raid on your base, going out and knocking down the sniper, the instant revenge for killing your friend...
I have to think long and hard to remember any of those kills specifically.  But the chance encounters, new and interesting people, someday meeting your killer under different circumstances and having him say he recognized your name from a pulse check on your unconscious body a few weeks ago.  Those stick with me.

[Sooden 301]

i just hope my friends come back to dayz, as it would be hard for me to has such interactions as i only 'text chat' (reasons, not explaining) but when my friends played, i had one friend that would voice my chat to the rest of the team.

some people will just shoot if you have no mic (bit unfair, i can type fast :P, why does it have to be a voice, and if i'm typing, i'm even less of a threat - till i stop :P). But i had some really good interactions at big base with them. still played like i do now, lightly kitted, a pistol or two... and for the team, medical supplies.

My job was to keep out the way, and if they die, then i was to try and save the loot. so i would just sit and wait after my team was taken out, for the enemy to come in >< sometimes i won, sometimes i lost, but wow, it was fun :) And the memory of crawling across the airfield to give first aid to a fallen team member in the middle of a gun fight... Dayz has some epic moments, and its down to PvP :)

and yes, our team did have some RP aspect to it, all on a official server. Not all army men. each kinda role-playing a position (me a medic) , the sniper, the cocky ex detective in the black shirt, you get the idea :) would be cool if there was also a reason to not dress in highest level kit, stamina bar was a nice step in the right direction (maybe the weather will change things?). 

still don't know if i would KOS someone, been tempted before, then thought 'its just not me', i should (in my current situation, no text chat in 'stress test', they will kill me, as i cant respond). 

Edited September 9, 2018 by soods

[pilgrim* 3514]

Quotes:
<<Sorry, but only thing I read out of this all is that you dont like PVP and dying.>> 
<<My issue is that DayZ has had from the outset a goal of an authentic/realism approach to the genre, yet the prevailing meta is at odds with that.>>
<<I like the idea of an NPC system to enrich and direct player actions, but do not expect or necessarily want this in DayZ>>

Yo! Ive just three (general) things to say about this general discussion

1 ) - DayZ has become EASIER since the "old days" .. step by step .. each version has added on play or crafting options BUT made survival simpler and less dangerous.. You might even say this gives it greater appeal to the more casual type of player.. (and they are the people who get bored the quickest, I think) . Definitely, if you go back to the central game concept and compare DayZ SA to the original Mod, you see how MUCH SAFER the whole environment and the whole range of play possibilities has become. Since DayZ SA started this has been a step by step process. 
One obvious example (of many) that SURPRISED me - was the introduction of THE HUD - when one of the KEY POINTS on the old DayZ SA shortlist (why we are SPECIAL) was 'NO HUD, we don't DO that crap.' There are many other examples. Game complexity has increased and EASE of playing has increased too. = Steadily =. The game has moved gradually and step by step forwards toward being an ORTHODOX STANDARD game .. It started WAY off from being "orthodox, standard, or easy (and boring) to survive, and THAT was what Attracted a whole GENERATION of playerz. This was a game that was AMAZINGLY different from everything else on offer. And THAT DayZ was GREAT.

2) - Obviously if you present the game to a whole bunch of new Xbox players, they are coming from the Xbox Gaming Experience (no insult intended).  That experience means they are habituated to games that have been vetted and designed to be fairly short lifetime BEST SELLERS.. Which means they are designed for the Average Xbox player (and look at the statistics on age and difficulty and game popularity - still no insult intended).  The "prevailing meta" is Worldwide.
Xbox games are normally either "play through once" (50 hours playing time, then buy something else) or they are REPETITIVE and short action "open world".. (collect stuff, grab power-ups, fight other players, face the NPC, face the NPC Boss, fight other players, capture the flag, collect better stuff, find the BFG, level up, get POINTS). They are games you can play for 10 mins or 20 mins, or play through the "whole game action" time after time. Plenty of markers, plenty of points, plenty of achievements, lists of "wins"..etc. Exciting "now immediately" and "exciting" until you get casually bored. 

Coming from that environment, to an Xbox DayZ only half built, it is not surprising that Xbox players say "I collected the kit, found the food, what do I do now?".  My guess is - many do NOT UNDERSTAND how anyone could play DayZ for two thousand hours or more.

So obviously a lot of people come into DayZ are expecting .. an Xbox Game...
DayZ is a LOT easier than it started, but it is NOT one of those. It was intended and designed to be NOT like that, and every PC player who has stayed with the game for more than a couple of months KNOWS that, still even today. And the 'old time long time' players know that totally 100%.  This game is an Alternative to mass popularity not too difficult, big sales gaming. Especially with the Xbox version currently even simpler than the PC version,   it's not surprising folk enter it thinking it's an online DOOMLIKE with ..er.. trees.
And its a BAD idea for DayZ to try to go that way OR to encourage new players to think they get the point - "it's just another same-same game, only the graphics are different."

=  DAMN: Put back the HEADER at the top of the blog saying "Average Life Expectancy this week  = 1hr 27minutes, and make SURE DayZ stays that way. NEW PLAYErS CAN UNDERSTAND THAT CHALLENGE; THAT is the  'level marker' new players need (& want, & expect)  to play against. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. 

3) - about NPCs:  We all know BI had a REAL lot of problems with zombies in DayZ SA.. bandwith, detection, damage... The point and interest of zombies in the game was reduced enormously (and it NEVER got back up to speed, did it?)  =  The result was zombies were reduced in number (sometimes there just WEREN'T ANY) , AND made more static (if they were even around).. So a village would have maybe 2 who just kind of STOOD there, mainly, unless you kicked them..  AND didn't wander about or patrol haphazardly through streets and buildings like they used to,  AND they were slower, AND (because people complained of ruined gear?) - they were made WEAKER too.

= (remember the heli zombies in the Mod? They were pretty MEAN) - anyone ever crawled up to a crash for 10 mins changing direction to avoid the 3+ helmeted pilot zombies who were WANDERING around the whole area, they could be dozens of yards away.. then change their direction and wander back..  and then find another one right behind the damn heli? - wow, fight or flight! And in the Mod the zombies could HEAR you if you spoke on the open channel, and came running.  AND if you were holed up, they would gradually move in towards you (weighted random movement towards a player presence.) And they ran damned fast, with crazy tracking.. =  

So a FIRST OBVIOUS move re NPCs would be to:
Bring the zombies up to strength (more of them & less predictable locations.. some where you would expect, some moving around that area)
Make them move around much more while nothing special is going down ..
Bring back the chance of infection from bites (and add "cauterizing wounds" to counter that possibility, using propellant from a cartridge, disinfectant, or any fire)
Randomly make some zombies STRONGER than others.. (more damage)
Change the way zombies do damage - more clothing and more physical damage, less gear damage
Add some random zombies that will kick a door and try to break it down if they detect you are in a house
Make some zombies FASTER than others (like Jeez, twice as fast)

- that will give you a good selection of NPCs with more variety, more quantity, and less predictability.. 
IF the BI programmers can find enough AI server-space to get the zombs GOING again.

xxP

*

For the PVPers who want to keep score  - if you really need a point to the game - give every spawn a dogtag and let players collect that off the body.

[and hey, IF you want to play a "game-game",  get ten players with bare fists in  a town square and throw in a can of beans or a watermelon, the one left standing with the can of beans at the end, is the winner]

Making up stuff to do is NOT difficult, really.. like.. Seriously?

Edited September 9, 2018 by pilgrim*
~

[pilgrim* 3514]

11 hours ago, soods said:

Can't say i player a lots of games, mainly watch them, play one intently at a time, for months (Autism thing :P)
..//..
it seems very few games address the KOS / random / out of place killing, that happens in all games where you can kill another player. I

1)  - that's maybe why most of us are here.. I'll bet if you took a poll, most DayZ players are "one game at a time for months" .. me too, anyhow.

2) - story: - A KOSer did something like a 'Proud to KOS' thread a while back; He said <<I'm EVIL, I kill Bambies, I kill Anybody, I'm Smart and Bad, I love it. I Iie, I shoot in the back, in the face, from far from close, If they surrender I put bags on their heads and beat them to death. I murder, I dont CARE what you or anyone thinks, I'll get YOU .. >>
so I said <<Thanks mate - it's people like you that make this game interesting and worthwhile. Without serious dedicated bad mean evil KOS bandits, what would be left of DayZ? Thanx for your work, keep it up, it's a hell of a lot better than facing NPCs.  See you in the game.  >>

[Sooden 301]

3 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

...

2) - story: - A KOSer did something like a 'Proud to KOS' thread a while back; He said <<I'm EVIL, I kill Bambies, I kill Anybody, I'm Smart and Bad, I love it. I Iie, I shoot in the back, in the face, from far from close, If they surrender I put bags on their heads and beat them to death. I murder, I dont CARE what you or anyone thinks, I'll get YOU .. >>
so I said <<Thanks mate - it's people like you that make this game interesting and worthwhile. Without serious dedicated bad mean evil KOS bandits, what would be left of DayZ? Thanx for your work, keep it up, it's a hell of a lot better than facing NPCs.  See you in the game.  >>

and i have to wonder, if a player like that would have (or did back in the mods) find the game more entertaining with more zombies and less ammo laying around (less relative to how much the game made you use). Being a psycho and pulling it off would be a challenge... only the best nutcases would stand out and get the reputation they desire. Right now, if you wanna hop into the game and kill anyone that's not on your team, or just for the lols, its to easy. I can see that , maybe, a real game baddie would welcome the extra challenges :)

yesterday, i walked from the top of the map to the coast with 2 back packs (so one in my hands), snail's pace, but having fun being the hero dropping of supplies :P i had one encounter with a zombie in all that time. I hope they can add more and improve the zombies but watching them 'move' when a server is full, it feels like it already beyond the limits.. hope i'm wrong.

would be nice if they could put more item types on zombies, make Zeds a resource, keep clothes and bags in house and reduce the food and ammo, and start putting that on zeds... same for bases (guns may have to stay where they are, but i have brought up the idea of locked boxes a few times)... that means you can't just run in a loot everything you need, you may have to interact with the Zeds for some of the items you need.

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by soods

[TDsS 7]

Again, you are just rambling about 10 different topics without any clear points.

And using 0.63 to set examples doesnt make any sense, game is dry of content, community has split between multiple branches, ST branch doesnt have any persistance.

Quote

-If i was to assume from your post; you seem to worried that the game may change

Why should I be worried? Devs have clearly their own roadmap and goals that they follow and there is nothing that suggests that they will remove KOS because some small group of people dont like it.

Quote

- My point is - if dayz is meant to be more than a FPS (on a big map) its not doing it well, as things are out of balance.

Yes, its meant to be much more, but the game is not finished. Its supposed to be a sandbox survival game and after devs finish adding all the content and tweaking, its going to be what was promised. Except there wont be a need for in-depth human interactions or grouping up, because that was never the requirement.

Quote

it doesn't matter how big the map is, if a player know where you base is. When you kill them, the risk is not removed

Again, completely unrealistic hope. Im actually interested what would you want devs to do against that? To make one character per server and after some time you cant play the game at all, because you already died at all the servers?

Quote

Yup, that's KOS :) = ''Only difference is that we just shoot / kill others on sight''

Again with that passive-agressive BS. I know what KOS means, but you literally defined it as deathmatching multiple times, which is just stupid. People who KOS, also spend hours on survival, building, gearing. Only difference is that they dont want to RP with everyone they see. And you like to act that these people make the game complete FPS or PUBG. Its just ridiculous.

Quote

well if you got any of that from my posts as well, think you missed my point. I just think it's too easy to just kill a player, in what's meant to be a post-apocalyptic style game. ammo is abundant, food on every tree and it re-spawns... water from wells. Its a paradise not survival. Its a playground for low end FPS to come and get some easy kills and your afraid it may get balanced.

There is no need to attack me. Im not "afraid" of game getting balanced, im hoping for it because I agree that surviving is too easy. But that wouldnt make me change my playstyle. Just because I shoot you instead having conversation, doesnt mean im deathmatching. If the guns will dissapear, I will still try to kill you with a hatchet.

Quote

still, all comes back to, what is dayz trying to be. I don't think they know anymore, and it is just a FPS on a big map with some zombies.

Again, game is far from being finished. Dayz isnt trying to be anything. It will give every player choice to do whatever they want in this big map.

 

[Vattenlarv 81]

I have been playing Escape From Tarkov and Squad the past 6 months.

No one is cooperating in EFT. Any wiggle attempts are met with a bullet in the face. Teaming up with someone in the lobby is like testing a bear trap with your head. Shoot everything that moves, even your slav-buddies if you play as a scav. Cyka! 

In Squad everyone are yelling at each other, players refuse to do logi runs if asked to. Generally very few even try to understand the game or help their squad leader, squad, or team, with whatever they are doing.

So the other week I booted up Arma 3, the best game ever, and hopped on a KOTH RHS server and started to level up. Arma 3, in 1pp, is still goddamn spectacular in comparison to these other titles. However, every single game you have a couple of completely erratic retards running around in base shooting their team mates in the face, shooting at and team killing returning vehicles, spamming nades, or just having their personal destruction derby with non-participating players trying to play the game. 

If we'd look at the general population, e.g. measuring intelligence and social competence, I am certain a somewhat terrifying percentage would be deemed a complete waste of oxygen. Do the same to the global gaming community and we'd probably have to triple that number. Being disappointed in how the DayZ player base is playing the game is pretty naive in my opinion. 

 

I have pointed it our before, and I will do so again; There is only one way to combat KOS without compromising player's freedom. Slow down gameplay and make it as realistic as technologically possible. Hardcore on steroids. Remove 3pp. Much more dangerous infected. Anything that makes the game more difficult and unforgiving. NOTHING else will make a difference regarding the KOS issue (if it is an issue)... nothing.

By the way, I have seen a clip or two of 0.63 and to me it still looks like A-D spamming is a thing, and that player interaction still looks like a bunch of birds trying to impress each other. Are my eyes deceiving me? 

[pilgrim* 3514]

A human opponent is better than an AI opponent.       A human buddy is better than an AI buddy.

Which do you want today , an opponent or a buddy .?  - or maybe just go solo?   

You can't try for "buddy" ??  - WHY NOT?  =  OK, I get it -  because it is the fault of every player except you.

xxP

[Vattenlarv 81]

@pilgrim*

I am not sure I follow your little composition there. I don't understand what the point / argument is, or if it was a response to me or someone else. 

Of course it is everyone else's fault. If you have your game session ruined by "that player" it is his fault. That player's right to ruin your game is a different topic, and as it stands now that player is not prohibited in any way from ruining your game session. Just as you are equally entitled to ruin his game session. 

KOS is as of now a very renowned part of DayZ, no? Some hate it, some accept it, some do it. Who's right? Is there a right or wrong here, Pilgrim*? Isn't it fairly established at this point that you can do whatever you want in DayZ, unless you hack the game, and you will not be punished for it, as it is a sandbox game? 

I think the game itself, and its implemented features, is the issue. It has been discussed and suggested by me and many others that a "higher difficulty", a more hardcore game, slower game play, etc, will limit the amount of KOS we see now, as it would simply not be an effective survival strategy. I don't think that any game with a lot of potential is ruined by that small percentage of the playerbase that is out for nothing but blood, and to annoy and troll everyone around them. However, my opinion is that these people are not worthy the air they breath in real life, as their genuinely shitty personalities and moral values are clearly shown by their avatar's behavior. Are we not allowed to call out certain people's personally traits for what they are? Is that offensive in any way? Anyone feeling particularly offended here in the good ol' DayZ forum? 

 

Edit; I just want to add that I was referring to the other examples in my previous post, not KOS in DayZ, when I was talking about questionable personalities.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Vattenlarv

[Sooden 301]

4 hours ago, TDsS said:

.

 I have pointed out game concept issues. i'm not offering ways to fix the issues, just point out they are there and in lots of other games where you can kill people (its common, its hard to solve in a reasonable manner - were all sides get what they want). As for passive aggressive posts, I was just playing on your terms :)

As for ''Except there wont be a need for in-depth human interactions or grouping up''... i gotta stop watching them dev streams (too be fair, there has only been on official one) where they talk about how important the interactions of player are to the concept, at first i thought ''they ment Killing people'' but no, they follow it up with, ''and please don't KOS''.

Hate it when people make me read back over what i said, just to check...''Now here is the big different of when KoSing or Deathmaters needs addressing in a game and is part of the game.'' (i did spell it wrong, leaving as is). But you said ''you literally defined it as deathmatching multiple times''

This is where i use the divider 'or' i'm not saying they are the same, but a death-match can have KOS, as that's what you do in a death-match. I'm not calling all KOSer Death-match players...and that statement is a general one about 'games' and when it needs addressing or dosen't... like in PUBG, KOS or death-matching does not need addressing

so when i refer to 'death-match' they KOS, they are coming here for the FPS experience (that is the issue, to easy to come here for a frag match), but i'm not saying all KOSers are death-matcher (Starting to sound like a logic question :P). some people KOS for many reasons.

 

...and the games not finished? dam, ty, was unaware.

 

----

where i used the term death-match;

• '' Its not that people that don't KOS cant Kill other players well (A death match,popping other player all day.. how dull), they just see it as low quality game play they can get a million other places.'' <(maybe that could be see as what you said?, not what i was getting at, but can understand the confusion)
• '' or may even find them selves having to interact with other survivors just to survive, rather than team deathmatch '' <(Cus a harder games not gonna stop KOSing, no what i'm after, but it may stop people/teams coming it to see how meny people they can kill)
• ''Now here is the big different of when KoSing or Deathmaters needs addressing in a game and is part of the game.''

I'm not defining KOS as death-matching but i am defining Death-matching as KOSing. " different things, don't put words in my mouth,ty.

i guess in summery, if we wanna simplify things.... I don't want to stop KOSing, as i have stated before (that i dont wanna stop it), but i would like to stop Death-matching... If i though they where the same, could not stop one without the other. Hope that clears things up.

Edited September 9, 2018 by soods

[emuthreat 2837]

7 hours ago, TDsS said:

suggests that they will remove KOS

Who is this person that keeps suggesting they forcibly remove KOS from the game?!?  I swear, I don't have any users blocked, and I'm just not seeing where you get this.  If you can't even be honest with yourself about what you think others are discussing, how can you participate?

7 hours ago, TDsS said:

Im actually interested what would you want devs to do against that? To make one character per server and after some time you cant play the game at all, because you already died at all the servers?

Or have a death cooldown timer that can be adjusted from zero to infinity at the server owners discretion.  Again, you make an extreme and unrealistic leap to the other end of the spectrum, that relates to nothing that was actually said here.  How about dog tags and static player names so i can radio my friends on the coast and tell them to put down BadboyJimbo if they see him, because he just torched part of our base???  HMMMM? Does that sound reasonable to you??? 

Maybe they should just remove bases altogether so it won't even be an issue?  (See how that sounds? Whiny, like a ten year old throwing a tantrum, right.)  <<<Try to do less of that in the future please.

7 hours ago, TDsS said:

Again with that passive-agressive BS. I know what KOS means, but you literally defined it as deathmatching multiple times, which is just stupid. People who KOS, also spend hours on survival, building, gearing. Only difference is that they dont want to RP with everyone they see. And you like to act that these people make the game complete FPS or PUBG. Its just ridiculous.

Why do players who KOS spend hours on survival, gearing, building?  Is it perhaps because the inherent game mechanics somehow either require or reward these behaviors to be successful in the game? 
Look buddy, I don't care that you KOS, I don't care that you don't care that I consider it to be low-brow.  Nobody is talking about removing it from the game, nobody is talking about you personally being a bad guy.  It's about trends and demographics, and the in-game systems that influence those.

What I do care about is that you keep interjecting yourself into a conversation that you are categorically disqualified from by your own admission.  Nothing will change your mind. You just kill other players, that's it.  You are a hammer and everything is a nail, I get it.  You choose to limit your interaction in DayZ to oly a tiny sliver because you seem to have a disdain for any other sort of interaction.  You call it RP.  I don't know what you mean by that as never really roleplay anything.
Unless you consider this RP:  "hey buddy I got no intentions of killing or robbing you, just trying to make it back to Sverograd and kill the asswipes who been sniping everyone there for the last couple hours."
I would hardly consider that RP.  When I briefly tried out RP servers to see what it's about, I quickly found that it was not for me, and I was not for them; couldn't stay "in character" or whatever.  Not my bag.

So when you dismissively write-off any interactions aside from shooting people as RP, and keep mentioning this.  I have to ask. "who hurt you?"  What did they do that was so terrible do to make you so afraid of RP that you kill all other players to prevent them from trying to ruin your life by offering a can of beans, or a tip on a crashed truck they aren't interested in?  Were you harangued by a coach in front of the team for wanting to pursue theatre?  Did some RP in the bedroom go someplace that nobody ever needs to know about? What is your obsession with RP that makes you feel the need to even comment on a topic that you have no stake in?

If they do add features to incentivize cooperation, your crew can still benefit from in-group cooperation, and you'll just have more people found in groups of players for you to shoot at once.  You don't lose anything here.  What's with the bee in your bonnet?

[emuthreat 2837]

5 hours ago, Vattenlarv said:

Of course it is everyone else's fault. If you have your game session ruined by "that player" it is his fault. That player's right to ruin your game is a different topic, and as it stands now that player is not prohibited in any way from ruining your game session. Just as you are equally entitled to ruin his game session.

I find it much more productive to look at it statistically, rather than personally.  The personal approach is untenable to solve by any means other than some which I have described above in my post about making friends at Tisy by making what most players would consider very poor choices.
And besides, people seem to get personally offended by the suggestion that too many people doing what they do forces everyone to do it, which makes the game a bit repetitive for many. ^^^

What can be done to get that chunk of players who want to interact but always shoot first because they think you will too,  to take the chance and try talking to players more?  What can facilitate that in a natural manner?

Edited September 10, 2018 by emuthreat
think not thing

[pilgrim* 3514]

9 hours ago, Vattenlarv said:

...//..  Of course it is everyone else's fault.  ..//..

- LOL -

                                          * * *

- to show you some respect (this is a serious & respectful reply) here is a leader into the explanation of DayZ .. In 2018 the average age of a male video game player is 33, the average age of a female video game player is 37 .. so we can assume that average players are doing what they do because they are adults .. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism
<<Sartre rejects what he calls "deterministic excuses" and claims that people must take responsibility for their behavior.>>
*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy
<< Anarchy is primarily advocated by anarchists, individuals who propose replacing government with voluntary institutions.>>
*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture
*
<<The Game>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

<<The definition of "thinking about The Game" is not always clear. If one discusses The Game without realizing that they have lost, this may or may not constitute a loss. If someone says "What is The Game?" before understanding the rules, whether they have lost is up for interpretation.
 Some players enjoy thinking of elaborate pranks that will cause others to lose the game.
The Game may have been created in 1977 by members of  Cambridge University when attempting to create a game that did not fit in with game theory>>
*ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_theory

 <<it is impossible to isolate play from the social influences of everyday life, and in turn, play will have both intended and unintended consequences for the individual and society.>> [ .. some say]
*
Some video games present problem solving questions that the player must think on in order to properly solve, while action orientated video games require strategy in order to successfully compete. This process of being forced to think critically helps to sharpen the mind of the player.

Should there be competition between players in DayZ ?
After an apocalypse, should there be competition for resources ?

 

There is no winning there is no loosing - there is only the always-continuing process of adapting to face the circumstances of each moment. [Imagawa .. or was it Musashi? Sorry dude, I forget]

 

    Next to the maiden's
    Sleeping place
    I left
    The sabre, the sword —
    Alas, that sword.

xxP