1st person perspective only (Message to devs)

[exwoll 255]

3 hours ago, sobieski12 said:

 

As for making it more popular, I don't really see why players would give up the advantage that 3pp offers versus 1pp. 

Give them an oculus and let them play Dayz on it. That would be a great reason :)

Edited September 24, 2016 by exwoll

[Buakaw 274]

14 hours ago, sobieski12 said:

I agree, at this stage it would do more damage than good. 

As for making it more popular, I don't really see why players would give up the advantage that 3pp offers versus 1pp. 

You are not giving up any advantage, you are playing the game a different way... everyone gives up the "advantage".

[exwoll 255]

Now that I think about it, it would be cool to be able to have temporary 3pp pov in 1pp servers to check your character WITH occlusion. 

1. This would add 1pp servers more entertainment capabilities for video production (3pp atm allow a wider array of pov to make your videos), which in addition would make 1pp servers more popular due the exposure from the video people. One would be able to make some takes with the character running with a beautiful background  view, plus adding 3pp pov for storytelling while getting ready to scout a town, etc. Right now 1pp is limited a.f. for video production

2. Would help adding some variability to the hours one spend running in woods, letting you at least check the sunset while you do so, etc.

 

[sneakydude 480]

OH great another 1st person to 3rd person review on what players should have and shouldn't have, just with a different account.

Let it go already, not everyone wants to play on a 1st person server, or 3rd.

As soon as i connect to 1st person server i leave, and go to a 3rd person server because i don't enjoy it. It bothers me.

All this topic is, is another one of those hidden 1st person reviews on why every server has to change.

 

Why hasn't this been closed?? like all the others out there that the devs and forum mods never allowed us to talk about.

After the 5th page it turns into a flame war.

[emuthreat 2837]

So far this seems less like a "which is better" thread, and more of a discussion about why it hasn't been given any kind of boost or forced public testing run.  Some good points have been made too, including the limited 1pp stances leading to inability to peek through windows, and the lack of usefulness to content creators.

I'm definitely in favor of offering a higher ratio of 1pp to 3pp servers in an experimental push, just to see if it has any effect on acclimating people to 1pp who would otherwise avoid it.  Some of the best times I have had on 1pp servers were in experimental, where limited slots always made sure the 1pp servers were full too.

Edited September 24, 2016 by emuthreat
grammer*

[Kohlbar 270]

I play mostly on 1/3pp servers, but spend 95% of my time in 1st person. I just like it better for most of the activities in DayZ. I'm all for balancing combat and was glad they made it harder to peek over high walls, but honestly I don't think it's that much of a big deal and 3rd person adds a lot of entertainment value to the game. I think both perspectives have a place in the game.

[svisketyggeren 662]

17 hours ago, sneakydude said:

 

Why hasn't this been closed??

After the 5th page it turns into a flame war.

Probaly because the new players of Dayz has a right to discuss a topic eventhough its been discussed before by veteran players

 

And u are the only one thats flaming this thread

Edited September 25, 2016 by svisketyggeren

[sneakydude 480]

On 9/25/2016 at 6:24 AM, svisketyggeren said:

Probaly because the new players of Dayz has a right to discuss a topic eventhough its been discussed before by veteran players

 

And u are the only one thats flaming this thread

They start this way out, then turn. Happened 500 times before.

We had that right then too.

 

Example:

Then ppl use the search engine like everyone else was given 1000 times over in the past.

It always turns into a 1st person, 3rd person war of flames. You just haven't seen the others online to add to it yet. That is all.

Edited September 26, 2016 by sneakydude

[Badsteel 0]

 I wouldn't very probably even try playing if there is no 3PP available. I'm pretty sure there are many more like me, who would rather drop the game alltogether unless we find a way to play in 3PP. There are many games I haven't  played just cos there was no option for 3PP.

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

I run in 1st person no mater what server i'm on, but i know a lot of streamers don't play 1st person servers because of stream snipers because of so few 1st person servers.

[emuthreat 2837]

4 hours ago, green_mtn_grandbob said:

I run in 1st person no mater what server i'm on, but i know a lot of streamers don't play 1st person servers because of stream snipers because of so few 1st person servers.

Yeah, I think the whole reason for this/these threads is because people who like 1pp are aware of the negative feedback cycle of low populations-->decreased interest-->low populations.  I use 1pp on the 1pp/3pp server I play on quite a bit.  I never even got established on 1pp this patch, because DUG was always full/whitelisted.

I'm pretty sure @sneakydude is trying to run this discussion into the ground already, so I'll add my two cents about why I don't think the devs are ever going to give 1pp any official love; and that immersion enthusiasts will have to turn to privately hosted servers and events.
It's very similar to why production automobiles are increasingly difficult to find with manual transmissions, without special attention given to this detail; some models are even unavailable in manual altogether.  When there are multiple available ways of doing the same thing, people will choose what is quickest, easiest, and requires the least amount of attention to use.

This topic has gone round and round in the almost two years I've been participating in these forums.

3pp is unarguably more popular, and by extension, more fun; as well as more useful for content creators, which drives 3pp popularity.  The perspective itself lends well to the playstyle of many groups who tend to camp a large city from elevated (and often bulletproof) positions, and shoot everything they see for a few hours a night.  It is highly exploitable.

1pp is unarguably more realistic and immersive, and by extension, more challenging; but it is less useful for content creators, which reduces 1pp publicity and popularity.  The perspective lends itself well to the slower paced, deliberate playstyle of the survivor, while making PvP encounters all the more unforgiving.  It is exploitable for ambushes, due to both players having a more limited field of view, but this requires planning, patience, and good knowledge of the map and common player paths through specific areas.

3pp advocates are afraid of having something they enjoy, and are very accustomed to, taken away or changed for the worse; while 1pp players are frustrated that they only get to play with full servers during the first few weeks of an experimental push, or on private hives, which often have restrictive policies regarding in-game behavior.Unfortunately, BI seems steadfast in their decision to fully support 3pp as the mainstream flagship version of DayZ.  I'd love to see them incentivize 1pp by adding 1pp exclusive features, content, or CLE configurations, but that seems very unlikely to happen.
I suppose 1pp preference players will just have to hope that somebody with brass balls makes an awesome mod and releases it for 1pp only; it will be awesome for a few weeks until somebody copies it and makes 3pp available--at which point all of the players will shift to the 3pp version.

[Nebulae3 422]

On 9/17/2016 at 10:32 PM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

No, I don't have stats in front of me - but I can say my gut feeling is 3PP is more popular. 
I'd say it is almost exclusively due to the path of least resistance.

If you give people the option for an easier experience, the *majority* of them will follow it.

Another thing is sounds are more intense in 1st person compare to 3rd person - it might scare people off to play 1st person. People are used to 3rd person from other games, but I wish Dayz team lower the sounds of breathing & walking - we don`t breath that loud when we exercise. 

Edited September 27, 2016 by ori42

[Sqeezorz 839]

Perhaps there is even an option that 3pp is possible only when one has no gun (not mele weapons) in his hands, this would offset the balance somewhat, but there is so even optical losses of gameplay depth. Therefore better as a server-side option.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Sqeezorz

[sneakydude 480]

On 9/27/2016 at 1:27 PM, Sqeezorz said:

Perhaps there is even an option that 3pp is possible only when one has no gun (not mele weapons) in his hands, this would offset the balance somewhat, but there is so even optical losses of gameplay depth. Therefore better as a server-side option.

I think 1st person should be take out of the game completely.

[boneboys 7988]

The Topic is open for discussion, I will remove posting priveleges to any that continue to fan the flame.

You have the choice to play 3pp or 1pp, be happy...

1st person only here !

[Whyherro123 2283]

When 1PP offers all the range of advantages I have in real life (namely, all sounds "work" 100% of the time) , and doesn't feel like I am wearing blinders on the side of my head, oh and doesn't make me feel like I am going to vomit after running for longer than 5 minutes, then I will play it. Until then, I will use 1PP for ADS, and 3PP for everything else.

1PP might be "more realistic" (debatable), and it might be more immersive (also debatable), but .... well, it sucks. It really, really does, subjectively. And this is coming from someone who realism is integral to game enjoyment.

[Espa 711]

Why not instead of *Removing 3PP* - Do instead, bring the zoom closer to the PC perspective so we get more of an Over-The-Shoulder view. 

-By having the camera over One Shoulder (Switchable by key?), it would be closer to the character and eliminate exploitation of view, it would also obfuscate a corner of your vision and give you a blindspot (Increasing tension and fear).

 

Additional fix:

Allow 1PP Mode to grant you a few visual options that 3PP does not. This won't make 3PP worse, it'll just make 1PP more informative. In a way, this makes 3PP more *scenic* while 1PP would be more tactical.

• Temperature
• Thirst/Hunger
• Blood/Injury
• Sound
• Stamina

Edited September 29, 2016 by Espa

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

1 hour ago, boneboys said:

The Topic is open for discussion, I will remove posting priveleges to any that continue to fan the flame.

You have the choice to play 3pp or 1pp, be happy...

1st person only here !

This.

[exwoll 255]

3 hours ago, Espa said:

 

Additional fix:

Allow 1PP Mode to grant you a few visual options that 3PP does not.

This, make 1pp somehow different, richer than 3pp (since it's the character direct experience). And I would also add that sound perception in 1pp should be more precise and developed better than in 3pp.

Edited September 29, 2016 by exwoll

[emuthreat 2837]

35 minutes ago, exwoll said:

 sound perception in 1pp should be more precise and developed better than in 3pp.

Now that is a good idea that I have never heard suggested before.

I do have reservations about what @Espa suggested, regarding allowing HUD elements to only be displayed in a certain perspective.  It would not take anything away from 3pp, but it would force players to use a visual perspective they might be firmly against using, in order to gain access to information that should be intuitive.  There is also the issue of 1pp camera already making things feel a bit "squished in" compared to the pivoting follow cam of 3pp, and cluttering up this view with with all the status indicators would detract from the immersion and utility of 1pp.

I am, however, pretty excited about the possibility of multiplying sound parallax in 3pp, to give an incentive for the player to choose to perceive the world from inside the player's head, rather than from a displaced observation station.  If it does take away anything from 3pp, it is actually for a physically significant reason, and seems pretty well justified.

[stinkenheim 249]

If I could see out of windows in first person I would gladly play it more but it feels like my character is a child when I can barely see over the window ledge. Additionally, tone the volume of the character's breathing down... Can't hear anything after you've been running about.

 

I would be happy with 3pp being more 'over the shoulder' but dislike the idea of being better at hearing or otherwise gaining greater information about your surroundings from the game purely by being in one camera mode over the other.

[emuthreat 2837]

37 minutes ago, stinkenheim said:

If I could see out of windows in first person I would gladly play it more but it feels like my character is a child when I can barely see over the window ledge. Additionally, tone the volume of the character's breathing down... Can't hear anything after you've been running about.

 

I would be happy with 3pp being more 'over the shoulder' but dislike the idea of being better at hearing or otherwise gaining greater information about your surroundings from the game purely by being in one camera mode over the other.

I believe this is already the case, as 3pp allows for players to see more of the world around them than a natural perspective would.  ^^^

I know that it is inconvenient, being unable to hear the world around you when you are out of breath in 1pp, but this seems pretty consistent with real life experience.  I'm gonna lean towards the "out of breath panting overshadowing nearby noises" thing as being a gameplay mechanic that is designed to add balance to PvP, by limiting the perceptive abilites of run-and-gun players.  There is absolutely no reason why a player who  carefully and plans their movements, should not be rewarded for their patience by being able to listen to the world around them more effectively than someone who sprints around full-bore.  The noisy breath mechanic is not only a touch of realism, but vital to balancing player interactions.

I do agree that the new player controller will help to alleviate the main issue affecting 1pp viability.  The lack of fine control when looking out from cover forces 1pp play to a choice between long-range marksman and standing behind a door with a shotgun in many cases; and it definitely gives a steeper advantage to the players attacking a building, over the ones struggling to see what's happening outside.

[stinkenheim 249]

Ok, I phrased that poorly. What I meant by 'gaining greater information about the surroundings' was in reference to things like the sound being clearer in 1pp and things like showing your hunger status etc. I should have said the player's status or something but I was tired lol.

Either way, both camera angles should represent the character being played. Regardless of individual preferences, if I play a character in 3pp then I should be able to see the statuses of that character in the exact same way that a player using 1pp can because that character is supposed to be me in the game.

No one should have to switch between camera modes simply to see if their character is hungry or tired or whatever.

 

In regards to the out of breath thing, I've run marathons in the past and I can still hear things pretty well when I run. Obviously as you run about the noise you make will drown out some of the background noises but when you stop your breathing isn't loud enough to drown out everything in your immediate vicinity. That's how it feels in 1pp, the sound of the characters breathing is ridiculously over the top, even when stationary and there is no way to slow or control the breathing effectively which you would do in a real life situation. As for someone who 'carefully plans movements' I think that argument is flawed when a character with completely steady breath can be wheezing like an asthmatic geriatric after a 5 meter run. It's not about planning your movements or movement speed it is about the fact that even a short sprint will leave the charter loudly panting for a long while and unable to hear anything at all. Considering you already have over the top sway when you are out of breath I don't think also effectively being deafened is a good move if it is deliberate.

I agree that wall peeking is an issue with 3pp and think there are still steps that can be taken to either make it more difficult or to limit what can be seen but they have been mentioned many times before.

I like 1pp but to be honest the performance issues previously made the game uncomfortable to play for long periods imo, the constant micro stuttering and general fps issues were not pleasant in 1pp but far more tolerable in 3pp. If 1pp fov didn't feel as artificially 'narrow', and as we both said if issues like being able to see out of windows were resolved it would be a better experience on the whole.

I honestly think 1pp will be improved by all the new engine changes and performance tweaks and I think it will pick up in popularity as a result. 3pp will likely always be the default option though because it is the one that most people are introduced to via streams and youtube videos.

Edited September 29, 2016 by stinkenheim

[exwoll 255]

24 minutes ago, stinkenheim said:

Ok, I phrased that poorly. What I meant by 'gaining greater information about the surroundings' was in reference to things like the sound being clearer in 1pp and things like showing your hunger status etc.

I think that if you can see better in 3pp, you should also hear better in 1pp. The difference would be that in 3pp you are looking at the game as a floating camera, and sounds should be more dispersed because of this. Once you're "inside your character head" you should have a clear 3D sound perception of what's happening around you (what you lose in vision, you gain in sound detection). 

It would also correlate well with the current heavy breathing issue and both would neutralize themselves in some situations where, as mentioned before, a running player would have an advantage over a sitting one.

[emuthreat 2837]

Yeah, I was trying pretty hard to not let this one go the way of fighting about which is better.  I don't think either screen should have the HUD exclusively, and definitely not visible all the time but maybe more as a toggle or something.  I don't care about the wall peeking, I do it on 3pp like everybody else; and don't on 1pp, where we can't.

It sounds like your issue with the sound from breathing, is that it is triggered for too long, and with much less distance traveled than one should expect.  Now that I think of it, I'm not sure where the player sound sensor is located, whether or not 3pp sounds are heard from perspective of the camera, or the player's head.

You nailed it with the assertion that new engine systems and balancing will fix some of the issues endemic to 1pp.  It would be nice to see 1pp get some love, after being left to rot for in the hardcore cellar for so long.