Stable Branch - 0.58 Discussion

[VahidkinG 192]

in this discussion, i guess i'm gonna respect @Tonyeh's opinion.

 

i don't think KoS are as bad as people say they are in the current state of the game. Hell, this is the only reason that there are still players in this game.so for now, KoS are a most to keep on the joy part off the game. imagine a server where everyone is friendly, what you gonna do? whats the reason of finding a gun anymore or barricading and building a base? what are you surviving from? Zed's are not even close to a threat ATM and im not talking about just .58 where there is not any. so if there is no threat and #EverythingIsAwesome why are people even storing goods? why not live like a normal person do? (Anyone remember when dean said "Fundamental flaw"? guess im getting the point)

 

So if you agree with me, lets think of a solution for this which is possible to do in short time (nothing like Hoards and crazy ideas like radio active and stuff) without killing the current and only joy method the game has.

i think making this KoS harder to do is the best possible way ATM, how? 

my idea is simple, leave guns in the current spawn rate (or even higher), make Mags and Ammo's like +99% rare and protection helmets a little more common. the idea is you having like 5-10 ammo to spent. So you will use those 5-10 to defend or to Attack? its up to you.

but the twist is you actually may miss the head if you are gonna attack (or protection helmet will do the job) so you are now 1 bullet less, the target is running away and you can chase target knowing that you may step into a trap (Basically, no more 1 shot to kill or technically higher TTK) 

Still, this won't kill the threat, this wont completely destroy that sense of danger and that adrenaline rush. because the target is actually bleeding and bandaging is dangerous. 

basically a nerf to KoS.

anyone one has this kind of suggestions ?

[PugBlue 35]

If guns are all that makes DayZ for you, Call of Duty might be better suited. You'll be geared in no time, no need to waste your precious time travelling a whole map.

 

I'm almost sick of everyone running around fully geared, only looking for the next kill. This is due to guns being too ample and too little else to do apart from shooting. At least too little reasonable stuff. I don't start horticulture, if I find baked beans around almost every corner.

 

As for attractiveness - you play on a 50 player hive - obviously it is okay for the other 49, since they would pick another server, if not ....

 

That aside, ever heard of melee weapons? Yes, they can indeed be used. People only forgot about it, since they have been spammed to death with guns and ammo in recent patches.

 

The best way to curb this PvP-rinse-repeat-cycle is to have little guns. Makes them all the more precious, if you find them.

 

And to your last point ... usind a self made bow against a military guy. Now, are you serious? This is NOT a PvP arena shooter where you always have to go 1on1. You can sneak and shoot him from behind. You can crouch and cover and come back once you have a weapon. You can catch him in a moment of unawareness with a melee weapon even. But NOOOOOOO.... you have to run straight at him, bow wielding? Wonder how long you would survive in an apocalyptic scenario.

 

I'm not saying it for the first time and most likely not for the last time. This mega PvP has killed player interaction in this game, main factor for this being too many guns and too little other challenges.

In theory I would agree with most of what you say. But reality says if you take out adequate supply of weapons this game will lose in my opinion the vast number of players. I personally don't PVP much but most players want this. 

[VahidkinG 192]

In theory I would agree with most of what you say. But reality says if you take out adequate supply of weapons this game will lose in my opinion the vast number of players. I personally don't PVP much but most players want this. 

 

i don't think people want PvP to completely be gone. i think they want the game to be less PvP-ish kind of game. which is not possible till the game shows us some challenge. statistics may actually work because some people make a challenge out of them (i think they don't matter that much thought) but there are serous other challenge people can face, i encourage you to watch Frankionpc1080 video that is recorded from a moded version of Exile mod for arma 3 (it is staged, yes, but enjoyable) the part that they saw the hoard with that light thing, it is freaking awesome and it gives a meaning to having guns and thats the threat i want for this game. also there could be wild life challenge, places filled with zombies etc. 

 

basically the game needs some End game choices, not just pvp

[entspeak 374]

in this discussion, i guess i'm gonna respect @Tonyeh's opinion.

 

i don't think KoS are as bad as people say they are in the current state of the game. Hell, this is the only reason that there are still players in this game.so for now, KoS are a most to keep on the joy part off the game. imagine a server where everyone is friendly, what you gonna do? whats the reason of finding a gun anymore or barricading and building a base? what are you surviving from? Zed's are not even close to a threat ATM and im not talking about just .58 where there is not any. so if there is no threat and #EverythingIsAwesome why are people even storing goods? why not live like a normal person do? (Anyone remember when dean said "Fundamental flaw"? guess im getting the point)

 

So if you agree with me, lets think of a solution for this which is possible to do in short time (nothing like Hoards and crazy ideas like radio active and stuff) without killing the current and only joy method the game has.

i think making this KoS harder to do is the best possible way ATM, how? 

my idea is simple, leave guns in the current spawn rate (or even higher), make Mags and Ammo's like +99% rare and protection helmets a little more common. the idea is you having like 5-10 ammo to spent. So you will use those 5-10 to defend or to Attack? its up to you.

but the twist is you actually may miss the head if you are gonna attack (or protection helmet will do the job) so you are now 1 bullet less, the target is running away and you can chase target knowing that you may step into a trap (Basically, no more 1 shot to kill or technically higher TTK) 

Still, this won't kill the threat, this wont completely destroy that sense of danger and that adrenaline rush. because the target is actually bleeding and bandaging is dangerous. 

basically a nerf to KoS.

anyone one has this kind of suggestions ?

The assumption here is that it is black or white - KoS or no kills. There are ways to get into a gunfight that don't require that you KoS. KoS is the easiest interaction in the game because there is no real interaction.

 

I think making ammo rare is a good idea and will likely cut down on KoS. KoS could also be cut down by the experience gains Hicks described in one of his presentations. If dying means you lose - not just gear, but, say, stamina, gun sway recovery, bandaging efficiency, etc... this will make the character more dear. This is what the devs are trying to get to: a point at which the player cares more about keeping his character alive.

[sanguine00 168]

 

The best way to curb this PvP-rinse-repeat-cycle is to have little guns. Makes them all the more precious, if you find them.

 

And once you find them, you're going to have a server full of people who have no other way to get them other than take it from you, due to the rarity.  You're advocating for an environment that will result in instant PvP, maybe not due to contention for items in an area, but contention for items possessed by other players.  It's basically the same thing.

[The Riddler (DayZ) 410]

I think containers in containers might be an issue, and possibly items in containers. Had deer steaks in a frying pan in a frying pan, and Cmags in a pot. Took everything out of containers and got control of my toon back. Went from 1 fps to average of 15fps. No problem moving or interacting. Got back to my camp, froze and lost session again. Gonna see what other containers I have with items in them, or at least containers in containers. Maybe try and move that tire out of camp as well.

 

I can 100% confirm this. I have just spent the last 15 mins. removing all ammo cans and first aid kits from my stash of backpacks that had all sorts of lag and it is now 100% lag free.

 

This site consists of: 

1.) Red Child Briefcase

2.) Green Mountain Backpack

3.) Red Mountain Backpack

4.) Yellow Dry Bag

5.) Orange Taloon Backpack

6.) Improvised Backback. 

7.) Green Barrel

 

All the items are mixed (food, clothes, first aid items, ammo, guns etc). The main thing is no containers inside bags or barrels. This includes ammo cans & first aid kits in my case. 

 

I had to run at least 1000m away with my ammo cans and first aid kits (total of 7 containers, 5 ammo cans & 2 first aid) before the lag issue would go away in which I dropped one at a time. Another 1000m and dropped another etc etc. I also do not have a truck anywhere near this site for more perspective. 

[VahidkinG 192]

The assumption here is that it is black or white - KoS or no kills. There are ways to get into a gunfight that don't require that you KoS. KoS is the easiest interaction in the game because there is no real interaction.

 

I think making ammo rare is a good idea and will likely cut down on KoS. KoS could also be cut down by the experience gains Hicks described in one of his presentations. If dying means you lose - not just gear, but, say, stamina, gun sway recovery, bandaging efficiency, etc... this will make the character more dear. This is what the devs are trying to get to: a point at which the player cares more about keeping his character alive.

 

yeah i can agree that i just wanted to lower this part of the whole pvp mechanics. because, well, in my opinion this is the part people hate the most. i was in massive gun shots, squads vs squads and i truly liked those even thought i died in some. no one hates a good pvp where you have almost equal chance of survive. if the ammo is rare, it means that people don't run around and kill you for no exact good reason. in my experience 90% of my interactions were someone shooting at me without even a hi, sometime they miss, and sometimes the don't i think both count as a KoS (i mean attempting to KoS is also not that good and the idea has a good chance of lowering this) 

 

in any case, i thing no matters what devs do, PvP is almost the biggest challenge out there and this is not a bad thing if we have other challenges. so actually i don't (strongly) advise to lower it to zero or even make a PvE server or anything else... i totally like the idea of PvP and i guess it can not get out completely from a game with some guns, but the thing is, in dayz, it shouldn't be the first approach to everything, it has to be a secondary option or smth that you don't always do but it's there somewhere.

[BCBasher 2465]

That is great news. Means I no longer will pass by the deer and try using them more wholesome (making hooks from their bones for fishing too). So far, I never had space in any barrel anyway, so I barely took the pelts. If I did I usually left them in some other inventory for other people to find. And the meat, guts and fat was just cluttering up my inventory for no good reason. It's cool to hear this has been fixed. Is it possible to tan pelts for leather, even when there is something else in the barrels, too? Or do they have to be completely empty for that? In Exp it seemed it works with other things inside the barrel, too. But then again, the mechanic didn't work yet in Exp, so I can't be sure. 

 

How did you cook it? Both ways - in a pot and on a stick? I usually prefer the stick for ease, but I am carrying a pot as my main melee weapon, atm :) Now I'm looking forward to some hunting trips with pals and leather-bag-making and all that shizzle :)

 

I was trying to be ironic with the 100% comment based on someone saying meat got you sick 100% of the time because he ate it once and got sick.

 

It may be fixed or I may have gotten lucky.

 

All stick cooked, all carp, would have been more but had some delay updating the cooked texture and I burned 10 pieces.

 

Think the delay may have been the 50 pieces of fire wood and long sticks I accidentally cut down.

 

I'd like to see the meat be more filling considering the extra work and exposing yourself to cook it over opening a can, one character ate 24 carp fillets in about a half hour to forty-five minutes just waiting out stuffed once while I went fishing the second time which is ridiculous.

[BCBasher 2465]

I can 100% confirm this. I have just spent the last 15 mins. removing all ammo cans and first aid kits from my stash of backpacks that had all sorts of lag and it is now 100% lag free.

 

This site consists of: 

1.) Red Child Briefcase

2.) Green Mountain Backpack

3.) Red Mountain Backpack

4.) Yellow Dry Bag

5.) Orange Taloon Backpack

6.) Improvised Backback. 

7.) Green Barrel

 

All the items are mixed (food, clothes, first aid items, ammo, guns etc). The main thing is no containers inside bags or barrels. This includes ammo cans & first aid kits in my case. 

 

I had to run at least 1000m away with my ammo cans and first aid kits (total of 7 containers, 5 ammo cans & 2 first aid) before the lag issue would go away in which I dropped one at a time. Another 1000m and dropped another etc etc. I also do not have a truck anywhere near this site for more perspective. 

 

First aid kits seem to stick around forever on the ground even empty and ruined, came across one I burned and tossed last week trying to get it to despawn and it was still there.

[R. Hartenstein 18]

I can 100% confirm this. I have just spent the last 15 mins. removing all ammo cans and first aid kits from my stash of backpacks that had all sorts of lag and it is now 100% lag free.

 

This site consists of: 

1.) Red Child Briefcase

2.) Green Mountain Backpack

3.) Red Mountain Backpack

4.) Yellow Dry Bag

5.) Orange Taloon Backpack

6.) Improvised Backback. 

7.) Green Barrel

 

All the items are mixed (food, clothes, first aid items, ammo, guns etc). The main thing is no containers inside bags or barrels. This includes ammo cans & first aid kits in my case. 

 

I had to run at least 1000m away with my ammo cans and first aid kits (total of 7 containers, 5 ammo cans & 2 first aid) before the lag issue would go away in which I dropped one at a time. Another 1000m and dropped another etc etc. I also do not have a truck anywhere near this site for more perspective. 

 

Are there any villages arround your camp? If yes - did you experience any lag there?

[S3V3N 1402]

First aid kits seem to stick around forever on the ground even empty and ruined, came across one I burned and tossed last week trying to get it to despawn and it was still there.

 

Something I have been wondering about now that you mention it. Did you notice you cannot re-assemble tents when you put them up in their damaged state? That means nobody can steal your tent! I wonder if it would make sense to put tents into the fireplace, until they are damaged and put them up, then. The only downside is that you cannot move them any more - but neither can anyone else. It probably don't make much sense, because a camp discovered is a camp lost. Still, I find it odd you can do that. 

 

Hmm what else? I tried mining at a rock with the pickaxe and made a boyscout's pride fireplace with the big rocks you get. So, no more stone oven, I guess? I haven't tried, if I can just drag a cooking pot on the new (big) fireplace, but it does look nice. Lovin' all this stuff that I don't expect. This forum is a treasure trove for all these little tips and tricks. 

Edited September 7, 2015 by S3V3N

[BCBasher 2465]

Something I have been wondering about now that you mention it. Did you notice you cannot re-assemble tents when you put them up in their damaged state? That means nobody can steal your tent! I wonder if it would make sense to put tents into the fireplace, until they are damaged and put them up, then. The only downside is that you cannot move them any more - but neither can anyone else. It probably don't make much sense, because a camp discovered is a camp lost. Still, I find it odd you can do that. 

 

Hmm what else? I tried mining at a rock with the pickaxe and made a boyscout's pride fireplace with the big rocks you get. So, no more stone oven, I guess? I haven't tried, if I can just drag a cooking pot on the new (big) fireplace, but it does look nice. Lovin' all this stuff that I don't expect. This forum is a treasure trove for all these little tips and tricks. 

 

Haven't looked for nor found a tent, I avoid the places they spawn because it's a death sentence getting confronted around cities with my lag.  

 

Don't think they'd fit in any fireplaces either

[jayfkay (DayZ) 185]

First aid kits seem to stick around forever on the ground even empty and ruined, came across one I burned and tossed last week trying to get it to despawn and it was still there.

Well technically they are containers just like ammo boxes, cooking pots, frying pans and brotector cases. So they should have the same lifetime.

 

I guess we can conclude now that trucks and extra containers cause the lag problems of camps and stashes. Well, rip my idea of well hidden ammo boxes for now.

Edited September 7, 2015 by jayfkay

[The Riddler (DayZ) 410]

Are there any villages arround your camp? If yes - did you experience any lag there?

 

There is a town not far away with houses scattered about. No lag what so ever. 

 

I also did a bit more testing with vehicles. A truck by itself with no items in storage; no issues / no lag near the camp site. 

 

I tried it with a barrel in the truck's storage..........ANNNNNNDDDD LAG.  Nothing else in the truck storage; just a green barrel. Drove far away from the camp site, removed the barrel, drove back and lag again was gone. 

[eno 1049]

There is a town not far away with houses scattered about. No lag what so ever. 

 

I also did a bit more testing with vehicles. A truck by itself with no items in storage; no issues / no lag near the camp site. 

 

I tried it with a barrel in the truck's storage..........ANNNNNNDDDD LAG.  Nothing else in the truck storage; just a green barrel. Drove far away from the camp site, removed the barrel, drove back and lag again was gone. 

 

Being discussed in this thread... looks very promising and as soon as we separated our trucks from our camps things were back to normal.

 

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/228722-trucktentcontainer-loot-problems-tested/

[Tonyeh 454]

And once you find them, you're going to have a server full of people who have no other way to get them other than take it from you, due to the rarity.  You're advocating for an environment that will result in instant PvP, maybe not due to contention for items in an area, but contention for items possessed by other players.  It's basically the same thing.

 

Guns or ammo don't have to made rare or nerfed or whatever. Having weapons is fine. What DayZ needs more than anything in this regard is something else than other players to shoot at. In other words, really dangerous zombies.

 

If and when the devs sort out the zombies in this zombie apocalypse, where they are something serious to contend with, PVP will go down naturally as more ammo will be spent on zombies and people will conserve their ammo for them too.

 

I'd even go so far as making a zombie attack a high possibility of being fatal due to sickness if they manage to bring their attack to bear.

 

That'll really shake things up.

 

Say you have to hit up a town for supplies. You get to Electro and see that there are 50+ zombies in there, who could kill you if they land a blow. You scope out the town as best you can and weigh up the options. Perhaps you give it a go, perhaps you say not today. The risk is too much and you move on. That's what I want to see from zombies in this game. They should be dangerous enough to alter a player's decisions. Perhaps later you hook up with a couple of other people and team up to storm Electro together, using team work to eliminate the zombies and get the supplies you need.

 

There's a whole different game right there.

[Blackheart 5.56 56]

There is a town not far away with houses scattered about. No lag what so ever. 

 

I also did a bit more testing with vehicles. A truck by itself with no items in storage; no issues / no lag near the camp site. 

 

I tried it with a barrel in the truck's storage..........ANNNNNNDDDD LAG.  Nothing else in the truck storage; just a green barrel. Drove far away from the camp site, removed the barrel, drove back and lag again was gone. 

 

 

Interesting. I hadn't cleaned out my camp of all containers in backpacks... no containers in containers but had a pot, pan and full ammo can in different backpacks spread around, 3 full barrels 1 empty barrel and some guns on the ground and lag was so so. Barrels opening or closing had lag. Didn't really want to spread my stuff out 500+ meters away, as I already got squirrely with one of my packs and it took me forever to find again. So against that backdrop I unwisely drove a truck into camp. Major lag again. Nothing in truck cargo, just camp stuff nearby. Read about shooting the tires out so it slides downhill, except I have a whole bunch of trees in the way of downhill so I thought I would try and push it out of camp with another truck. Now I have two g*dmned trucks stuck in my camp, which I have nicknamed Camp LagAlot. Sigh. Guess it's back to another server until the hotfix comes out. 

[Blackheart 5.56 56]

Also got stuck in some rocks at Karmanovka. Google fu told me to try running at the rocks and disconnect internet, which I did and it worked. By the time I got reconnected I was outside the rocks about 30 meters away.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

First aid kits seem to stick around forever on the ground even empty and ruined, came across one I burned and tossed last week trying to get it to despawn and it was still there.

 

Lol. Always the experimenter, eh? How's the duct tape at the bottom of the pond doing?

[BCBasher 2465]

Lol. Always the experimenter, eh? How's the duct tape at the bottom of the pond doing?

 

It was still there last night but I used it and some other part rolls fishing for carp trying to get food poisoning again.  

[sanguine00 168]

Guns or ammo don't have to made rare or nerfed or whatever. Having weapons is fine. What DayZ needs more than anything in this regard is something else than other players to shoot at. In other words, really dangerous zombies.

 

If and when the devs sort out the zombies in this zombie apocalypse, where they are something serious to contend with, PVP will go down naturally as more ammo will be spent on zombies and people will conserve their ammo for them too.

 

I'd even go so far as making a zombie attack a high possibility of being fatal due to sickness if they manage to bring their attack to bear.

 

That'll really shake things up.

 

Say you have to hit up a town for supplies. You get to Electro and see that there are 50+ zombies in there, who could kill you if they land a blow. You scope out the town as best you can and weigh up the options. Perhaps you give it a go, perhaps you say not today. The risk is too much and you move on. That's what I want to see from zombies in this game. They should be dangerous enough to alter a player's decisions. Perhaps later you hook up with a couple of other people and team up to storm Electro together, using team work to eliminate the zombies and get the supplies you need.

 

There's a whole different game right there.

 

Completely agree.  Give the players other things to do other than shoot each other, and you'll open up the potential for more interaction.  I think a good example is ironically coastal chaos PvP.  If you have an M4 guy going HAM on a bunch of fresh players, the freshies (who would probably be enemies otherwise) may cooperate with each other to take out the threat.  If the zombies are implemented properly, you could get some really cool spontaneous truces where people completely bypass the whole trust-building phase and go straight to cooperating with each other to take out an immediate threat.  From that point, you have broken that barrier of interaction which opens up many more possibilities (trade?  travel together?  part ways?  hold up?  kill?).

 

PvP will never go away (and it shouldn't), but it would be great if the environment could somehow compel even the most hardcore PvP'ers to cease fire, if only temporarily.

[S3V3N 1402]

So does food + pills get wet when you put them in the barrels? I just emptied one I set up two days ago and all the food was wet. I don't think I left the lid open. 

 

Server hoppers make me laugh. When will they understand the CLE? Right after reset the server fills up at even the ungodliest hours. All people from the same clan seem to be frantically searching the airfield for those "fresh spawned items". Someone will have to explain to them they can keep their night's rest. Next time I'll camp there and gun everyone down ;)

 

Btw - back to hobo stoves: the Wiki says you have to cut holes in the barrel, before using it as a fireplace. Any idea how to cut those holes? Right now barrels are too precious anyway, but maybe when I make a bigger camp...

We need some more testing on the barrels, they have many uses I didn't even try out yet. Not sure if you are supposed to put water in there for tanning (Wiki says so), but it seemed you just need bleach/fertilizer, pelts and then rightclick on the status line of the barrel. Not sure what the Wiki is on about adding water to it:

 

http://dayz.gamepedia.com/Oil_Barrel

Edited September 8, 2015 by S3V3N

[wasnu (DayZ) 392]

 

Btw - back to hobo stoves: the Wiki says you have to cut holes in the barrel, before using it as a fireplace. Any idea how to cut those holes? Right now barrels are too precious anyway, but maybe when I make a bigger camp...

We need some more testing on the barrels, they have many uses I didn't even try out yet. Not sure if you are supposed to put water in there for tanning (Wiki says so), but it seemed you just need bleach/fertilizer, pelts and then rightclick on the status line of the barrel. Not sure what the Wiki is on about adding water to it:

 

http://dayz.gamepedia.com/Oil_Barrel

 

there is mostly some water in the barrel.

 

to tan leather you need fertilizer and the pelt inside the barrel, close lid, rightklick and you got the option to "tan pelts"

it needs ca. 4-5 minutes until the pelt is tanned.

 

craft your leather item, put it back into the barrel, add nails (only thing i tried) and you get the option to colour your leather stuff black.

i did it with an vest, trousers, top and hat. all neary black only the vest is more purple.

 

fire in an barrel i tried on last exp. build with no luck, don´t get any holes in the barrel with every tools i tried.

i will test it today again.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Best case scenario: We get status report, hotfix and .59 experimental tomorrow.

 

Worst case scenario: Another day of silence.

 

Either extreme and any variation in between is possible.

 

We might be looking at just a status report Wednesday if the storage lag hotfix isn't already done and tested....

 

I'm dreaming of an experimental build to play over the weekend but maybe that's too hopeful.

[VahidkinG 192]

Guns or ammo don't have to made rare or nerfed or whatever. Having weapons is fine. What DayZ needs more than anything in this regard is something else than other players to shoot at. In other words, really dangerous zombies.

 

If and when the devs sort out the zombies in this zombie apocalypse, where they are something serious to contend with, PVP will go down naturally as more ammo will be spent on zombies and people will conserve their ammo for them too.

 

I'd even go so far as making a zombie attack a high possibility of being fatal due to sickness if they manage to bring their attack to bear.

 

That'll really shake things up.

 

Say you have to hit up a town for supplies. You get to Electro and see that there are 50+ zombies in there, who could kill you if they land a blow. You scope out the town as best you can and weigh up the options. Perhaps you give it a go, perhaps you say not today. The risk is too much and you move on. That's what I want to see from zombies in this game. They should be dangerous enough to alter a player's decisions. Perhaps later you hook up with a couple of other people and team up to storm Electro together, using team work to eliminate the zombies and get the supplies you need.

 

There's a whole different game right there.

 

 

i can't agree more. but im suggesting a temporary change till they can make zombies work that way or make some other challenge in the game.