Experimental Update 0.63.149653

[Just Caused 423]

 

8 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

• Server crashes can cause a persistence wipe.

And yet we still don't have one of most important issues fixed.

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

Not one of the most important... THE MOST IMPORTANT.  In THIS version of DayZ... Base Building is one of the end games since it takes years to do it in vanilla, so why in the hell they don't focus on this instead of adding heat shimmering is one of those "DayZ Things" the rest of the thinking world will never understand.  I thought they were supposed to be fixing 5000 bugs, not adding new stuff at this stage of the game.

[tandwan 250]

Server crashes alone are not causing persistence issues. If you think that it's crashing alone that is causing these problems, then you're either naive or not testing properly. I've went to two different providers, Gameservers.com and Fragnet, both of those servers are having persistence issues not caused by crashes. 

There are so many other issues that need to be fixed before you move on to new and exciting things. I mean, we don't -need- horticulture right now, it's nice you added it but food provision is not a problem right now in the slightest. Fix the issues currently in the game before you move on to new stuff.

[wydox123 3]

51 minutes ago, tandwan said:

Server crashes alone are not causing persistence issues. If you think that it's crashing alone that is causing these problems, then you're either naive or not testing properly. I've went to two different providers, Gameservers.com and Fragnet, both of those servers are having persistence issues not caused by crashes. 

There are so many other issues that need to be fixed before you move on to new and exciting things. I mean, we don't -need- horticulture right now, it's nice you added it but food provision is not a problem right now in the slightest. Fix the issues currently in the game before you move on to new stuff.

Well take that up with those providers, i'm running dedicated and am only have issues when crashes occur. Devs cannot compensate for 3rd party providers.. Make sure you're taking regular backups for the moment while these issues get fixed. 

[MacAgony 1]

Is it so rush to make this 1.0?Survival game with no fishing and bows.More looks like this is now PVP game,I dont see much survival elements.Need cold,sickness,more threaths from enviroment.Then you can call this survival game.0.62 was more close to that.Dayz is good game,but not survival game yet,when your only real threat is other players.

[barelyinfected 144]

6 hours ago, wydox123 said:

Well take that up with those providers, i'm running dedicated and am only have issues when crashes occur. Devs cannot compensate for 3rd party providers.. Make sure you're taking regular backups for the moment while these issues get fixed. 

They say it's up to the developers to fix. These providers are official providers appointed by Bohemia Interactive as a partnership. Backups are not a solution because wipes are area based. If we decide to roll back someone in another area of the map will lose progress too. Backups are only a solution if everything breaks.

[Pivotstick 0]

43 minutes ago, barelyinfected said:

Backups are not a solution because wipes are area based. If we decide to roll back someone in another area of the map will lose progress too. Backups are only a solution if everything breaks.

Iam no programer, nor am i a server hoster or sth. But as a DayZ-Player, i would like to hear why you think that way?

Because for me, server backups are the only way to ensure persistence. It's just ridiculous to think that we will be 100% safe from server crashes, and without backups, you can never provide 100% persistence to the players.

 

Let's say the devs reduce the issues to like 1 crash a week. Wouldn't it be possible to just "save" the server files once or two times a day, and everytime a crash occurs, just reload? (serious question lol)

I remember playin DayZ Origin in the mod version. You had these Rollbacks from time to time, but it was fine, because at least you knew that your stuff was safe.

I doubt anyone will complain if they lose some hours of progress due a crash, when their base they put days/weeks/months of work in, will be safe from whipes.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Pivotstick

[barelyinfected 144]

2 minutes ago, Pivotstick said:

Iam no programer, nor am i a server hoster or sth. But as a DayZ-Player, i would like to hear why you think that way?

Because for me, server backups are the only way to ensure persistence. It's just ridiculous to think that we will be 100% safe from server crashes, and without backups, you can never provide 100% persistence to the players.

 

Let's say the devs reduce the issues to like 1 crash a week. Wouldn't it be possible to just "save" the server files once or two times a day, and everytime a crash occurs, just reload? (serious question lol)

I remember playin DayZ Origin in the mod version. You had these Rollbacks from time to time, but it was fine, because at least you knew that your stuff was safe.

I doubt anyone will complain if they lose some hours of progress due a crash, when their base they put days/weeks/months of work in, will be safe from whipes.

It might be a solution if it REALLY is more stable. ATM that doesn't seem to be the case. The reason why I say so is that if 6 clans are building a bases separately and the last backup is from 6 hours earlier. 1 clan loses their base. Is it really up to me to me to roll back and make the other 5 clans lose 6 hours of progress? Persistence stability is key here. It should be very stable persistent if you're running a pretty much vanilla server. ATM I get reports of lost stuff every day.

 

 

[Derleth 1357]

3 minutes ago, Pivotstick said:

Iam no programer, nor am i a server hoster or sth. But as a DayZ-Player, i would like to hear why you think that way?

Because for me, server backups are the only way to ensure persistence. It's just ridiculous to think that we will be 100% safe from server crashes, and without backups, you can never provide 100% persistence to the players.

 

Let's say the devs reduce the issues to like 1 crash a week. Wouldn't it be possible to just "save" the server files once or two times a day, and everytime a crash occurs, just reload? (serious question lol)

I remember playin DayZ Origin in the mod version. You had these Rollbacks from time to time, but it was fine, because at least you knew that your stuff was safe.

I doubt anyone will complain if they lose some hours of progress due a crash, when their base they put days/weeks/months of work in, will be safe from whipes.

On the Dayzcore server they're using a backup system that runs every 5 minutes or so and automatically restores persistence upon a crash & wipe. Nobody has lost anything since the system was implemented. I think such a system could (and should) be made baseline for the server files, but since they're obviously able to do it already there is nothing stopping other server providers to follow suit.

[amadieus 315]

There are similar games to Dayz that don't have persistence problems or roll backs. So it should be possible and need to be achieved before 1.0

Edited December 4, 2018 by amadieus

[lartdeschoix 7]

How can you work on other things, while your server KILLS THE SAVINGS almost every day ???
I need explanations for my communities!

[lartdeschoix 7]

It's YOUR PROBLEME NOW !!!

Everything else we do not care completely !!!!

We want the camps to stay! POINT.

 

Stop work on the car... And graphic, it's not a probleme now.

 

It is not possible to launch a beta like his.

[lartdeschoix 7]

It's a "laught".....

 

" I corriged a bug with a bottle of water label... Or deplace water pompe..."

 

Huuum ?

 

You play with your game early launch ??

 

NEED A GOOD, fucking server backup. ALL THE REST are not important.

[lartdeschoix 7]

How can individuals work better than you?

Hire 3 people 24 hours ... and solve the problem? Redirect your personal! Make a memo lol

 

No no no.. Its INCREDIBLE from you. We do not tire of running servers like his.

Edited December 4, 2018 by lartdeschoix

[lartdeschoix 7]

14 hours ago, Just Caused said:

Its fuc$%à@ incredible !!!!!!!

And yet we still don't have one of most important issues fixed.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by lartdeschoix

[Pivotstick 0]

14 minutes ago, barelyinfected said:

Is it really up to me to me to roll back and make the other 5 clans lose 6 hours of progress?

 

Yes and no. I was talking about a automatic system, that reloads upon a server crash - since devs said, wipes are only related to crashs. So it's not your decision, but more like a superordinate thing, you know? Ofcourse you could only implement such a system, when in gets a bit more stable - as a already pointed out in my original post. (Besides that, Beavis3D's post sounds really hopeful)

I was only refering to your statement "Backups are not a solution because wipes are area based"

[lartdeschoix 7]

Prove us that we were right to re-believe in you !!!! It's now, not in 2 years.

 

"understand ?"

Edited December 4, 2018 by lartdeschoix

[barelyinfected 144]

30 minutes ago, Beavis3D said:

On the Dayzcore server they're using a backup system that runs every 5 minutes or so and automatically restores persistence upon a crash & wipe. Nobody has lost anything since the system was implemented. I think such a system could (and should) be made baseline for the server files, but since they're obviously able to do it already there is nothing stopping other server providers to follow suit.

Let's be honest, there are also very few players on there atm. Backupping is good and awesome, and I'm all for automated solutions but it shouldn't be on the communities to develop this. The devs should build that into the product if this is the way to go.

Edit: Also I have had cases where there was no crash and bases were gone.

Edited December 4, 2018 by barelyinfected

[barelyinfected 144]

7 minutes ago, Pivotstick said:

Yes and no. I was talking about a automatic system, that reloads upon a server crash - since devs said, wipes are only related to crashs. So it's not your decision, but more like a superordinate thing, you know? Ofcourse you could only implement such a system, when in gets a bit more stable - as a already pointed out in my original post. (Besides that, Beavis3D's post sounds really hopeful)

I was only refering to your statement "Backups are not a solution because wipes are area based"

But server crashes aren't the only reason why bases are wiped. I've had several reports now that disproves this.

Edited December 4, 2018 by barelyinfected

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

 

1 hour ago, barelyinfected said:

They say it's up to the developers to fix. These providers are official providers appointed by Bohemia Interactive as a partnership. Backups are not a solution because wipes are area based. If we decide to roll back someone in another area of the map will lose progress too. Backups are only a solution if everything breaks.

Wait..... this is news to me, since we get so very little from BI,  wipes are "Area Based?"  They are not server wide?  I use Host Havoc, and unfortunately, I don't believe I can backup persistence every 5 minutes, I can do it every 3 hours, but it means shutting the server down to do it, as they use a Control Panel for access.

Hearing that wipes are Area-Based just further proves my point that this game is NOT ready for release, and the fact that BI rarely speaks of it... now they are basically not talking about development even on a bi-weekly basis to make some kind of arbitrary deadline, is yet another slap in a thousand slaps to the dedicated community and long time community members that have rented servers for so long to support this game.  BI can stop this bullshit, they choose not to.  To double down on this arbitrary deadline is simply ludicrous given the state of this game.

Edited December 4, 2018 by THEGordonFreeman

[Bob.E.Dazzler 13]

Still able to put assault rifles in some of the backpacks; seems silly to me and just enables double or even triple carrying. Dayz to me was always about making choices, mosin or ak; doublecarrying (with all it's drawbacks) if I wanted both. Now I can just stick it in me bag, no worries no choices to be made :(

[pilgrim* 3514]

38 minutes ago, Pivotstick said:

a automatic system, that reloads upon a server crash

players & the gear they carry & their tents, barrels, car locations.. and player bases (I guess).. have ALWAYS been stored in the HIVE.. so a server crash should lose you whatever happened in the last 80 seconds maybe (max) - whatever you picked up, wherever you parked, whatever you built, - but ONLY the last seconds of those actions since the latest store-to-hive.   The Hive is constantly updated.   
So there "should not" be a deep technical problem about restoring player-state, vehicles, tents, bases,  from the hive when the server goes back up.
In the days of the Mod, when a server was restarted it could be empty of player-related entities - your car gone, your tent gone.. but when that happened the Admin would RESTORE all the player-linked info from the HIVE and you'd have your tents and cars back on the ground with your gear in them.. 

This is an AUTOMATIC procedure following a server restart for any reason.. just load the server back up from the Hive. This MUST be how it should work, right?

So -  Put a checksum on the total data stored from that server (for each store-to-hive cycle) . If it doesn't check during the game, comes up "not possible" - reload from the hive block by block until it checks. Can't take THAT long .. unless the data going into the hive regularly is overloading during gameplay.

This "data reload" would be an automatic a procedure that a private server admin would have to deliberately BLOCK if they wanted to restart from zero for some reason.

*

- or am I missing the point here?  Perhaps this is NOT a server problem, and it really is a pure Hive bottleneck problem ? 
 

Edited December 4, 2018 by pilgrim*
~

[philippj 103]

26 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

players & the gear they carry & their tents, barrels, car locations.. and player bases (I guess).. have ALWAYS been stored in the HIVE.. so a server crash should lose you whatever happened in the last 80 seconds maybe (max) - whatever you picked up, wherever you parked, whatever you built, - but ONLY the last seconds of those actions since the latest store-to-hive.   The Hive is constantly updated.   
So there "should not" be a deep technical problem about restoring player-state, vehicles, tents, bases,  from the hive when the server goes back up.
In the days of the Mod, when a server was restarted it could be empty of player-related entities - your car gone, your tent gone.. but when that happened the Admin would RESTORE all the player-linked info from the HIVE and you'd have your tents and cars back on the ground with your gear in them.. 

This is an AUTOMATIC procedure following a server restart for any reason.. just load the server back up from the Hive. This MUST be how it should work, right?

So -  Put a checksum on the total data stored from that server (for each store-to-hive cycle) . If it doesn't check during the game, comes up "not possible" - reload from the hive block by block until it checks. Can't take THAT long .. unless the data going into the hive regularly is overloading during gameplay.

This "data reload" would be an automatic a procedure that a private server admin would have to deliberately BLOCK if they wanted to restart from zero for some reason.

*

- or am I missing the point here?  Perhaps this is NOT a server problem, and it really is a pure Hive bottleneck problem ? 
 

The hive is not out yet for the general public. Only legacy GSPs and BI has it. Currently the players are saved in a SQLite database. Persistence in binary files in whatever format.

If an application actually crashes - not stopping and not in a graceful way - files which are opened, may get corrupted and there is no shutdown procedure either. Such a crash should never happen and can be circumvented with various methods. Fact is the DayZ server crashes and sometimes data gets corrupted. 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

The people who fix persistence are not the same people that change the UI or add something like heat shimmer.

I don't think there is a whole lot of point to stopping all other changes and additions to the game until the one (albeit game breaking) bug is fixed.

Yes, additions and changes may breed more/new bugs but I think progression where possible is important.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I personally suspect Enfusion engine has some serious problems.

Critical flaws that make bugs more prevalent, harder to squash, and easier to create.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And again, we are seeing double/triple work with the UI.

Going back over previous work in almost every aspect of DayZ has doubled and tripled dev time(IMO).

I don't mind that things progress independently but somehow I feel things like UI design and implementation should have been fully conceptualized a long long time ago.

You know, like climbing, and throwing? -_-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I also get the feeling that much of the data from the legacy engine was not readily applicable to the Enfusion version of DayZ.

Vehicles, body temps, wetness, horticulture, persistence even.... all things that myself and similarly dedicated testers put a lot of time into on the legacy engine.

Was it mostly a pacifier?

I see so little gained from all of that since switching engines.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I dunno, ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give SA

[Reaper TDO 14]

So what we are saying is the game on the EXP branch is still fucked and there will be NO update to stable anytime soon.