90% of players are unimaginitive simpletons

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

18 hours ago, nl said:

I never said I want any chance of ever getting "KOSsed" to be eliminated from the game, these are words that are put in my mouth. I completely agree that it is the very chance of getting killed on sight tremendously helps to add to the atmosphere of DAYZ and a constant feeling of threat.

What I did say is that it annoys me that 90% of the encounters I have follow the same boring, predictive and unoriginal pattern.

Some time ago I described here a friend of mine's encounter in Bere, when he was attacked by a freshie with a screwdriver, completely out of nowhere. Calling such situations 'exciting' or even 'brutal' is like calling a shopping mall elevator jingle 'mind-blowing'. When you're like that, you just cannot expect people not to mock your 'taste'.

[Vattenlarv 81]

3 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

Some time ago I described here a friend of mine's encounter in Bere, when he was attacked by a freshie with a screwdriver, completely out of nowhere. Calling such situations 'exciting' or even 'brutal' is like calling a shopping mall elevator jingle 'mind-blowing'. When you're like that, you just cannot expect people not to mock your 'taste'.

I am starting to give up on gaming, again, as I did a couple a years ago when I was so sick of the mindlessness in the gaming community and how games with great potential were, and are currently, dumbing down to please a certain crowd. Eventually I gave away my rig to a person close to me, and thought I had moved on. Not more than a year later my fingers were itching and I bought myself a new rig. That is little less than a year ago, and I am starting to have those feelings again. 

I see supposedly hardcore shooters being "balanced" to please people whining when they die, and how they do not like this and that, and developers deviate from their vision of creating these unique experiences. Nerfs and buffs to armor and ammo, recoil, stamina, you name it. Some popular streamer whines about something, and a horde of gullible "gamers" flood forums with these complaints and whatnot, without even thinking for themselves, or about the consequences of these complaints. Developers want to please the community, so this is unfortunately a natural progression. 

I do believe that most people who has bought DayZ, or is going to purchase their own copy, is looking for a unique experience, and would love a true challenge. A hardcore survival shooter with depth and severe repercussions when making a mistake, or being careless. However, I also believe most of these players do not bother to join a game forum and voice their opinion. They have other things in life to be bothered and opinionated about. The evolution of video games has always been an interest of mine, even during the long periods of time when I have not been actively gaming, so I join forums and argue my points for that reason. 

What I think I am trying to say is; Developers should not listen to the community, because I think the actual player base is being gravely misrepresented by a few loudmouths (myself included). This whole game forum phenomenon should just go away (not the forums themselves, but developers should not receive their feedback), and developers should at most have a feedback tracker with a very limited possibility to get into arguments, and spam "I don't like this"-posts. 

Developers should try to finalize their vision, and put it out there.

Not sure how this reflected your post... just thoughts.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Vattenlarv

[PongoZ 127]

Started in the little fishing village in the Ne, had only cleared a few buildings when a guy came running down the road, not armed, I only had two cans of food by this time. I offered him a can of food cause I had no way to open it. He took it, then followed me 30 feet then started screaming fight me. Because of how often you end up fighting zombies hand to hand with what ever you happen to have, I actually kicked the crap out of him, he ran a bit, I caught him and finished him and got my can back. He was screaming kill me at the end. I would rate him to have at least some imagination.

I cleared that valley still no knife or anything sharp so I walked a trail I knew about looking for rocks, none. By the time I reached a built up area searching for something sharp and heard a weapon shot close to the south(likely the military check point) It was very dark so I just moved away from it. Left along the rail lines to the nw and soon saw someone. Said hi and he asked if I could open some food for him. Said no, he said use your pipe. I tried but got no indicator to open it, he asked for the pipe to try and I demured on that. But we started searching for something to open things. He was limping from hunger. We searched along with him living on water. Split up to search and I ran into someone else in a stab vest and with a skorpion  with an axe. Asked him if he would open some food he said sure, so we had to find the other guy now. 

Went off looking for him and saw him stumbling away from 2 Zs, I called to him that I would pipe them he led them to me, I killed them then gave him a rag. We opend the food, I gave the guy with the axe the 380 ammo I had. We kind of split up and I saw each of them in the next bit in the distance as we moved generally  west.

Not sure what people want form the game. The danger of firing your weapon has changed it quite a bit.

Core of this game is way way better then it has ever been. Its not even close really.

[cirkular 178]

On 6/20/2018 at 3:02 PM, Vattenlarv said:

... we discussed how certain game mechanics could change the behavior of players, without setting rules or implementing a karma system.

I wanted to add that KOS is something we can all complain of, but surely a lot of interesting stuff happens along the way, more or less rarely, or not to some of us :) or it's that thing that we just remember the bad stuff. Or mostly bad stuff.

Alright, so what are these new game mechanics that are not rules or a karma system which could help prevent KOS? I'd like to hear any ideas, and right now not much plausible ones come to my mind. Not particularly asking you, just since you mentioned it I'd like to hear from anyone who has any new ideas about it.

I think in the first place that this kind of kill from anyone is more in a 'better safe than sorry' way. They take what they can of your stuff, but are also safe now to continue looting through that place. Significantly less chances for revenge on them.

On the opposite side, I think one feature is good idea but too harsh right now (which I believe was added relating to KOS): When blasting someone with a shotgun for example, or ratatatatat, most of his clothes, items in there and his stuff in the backpack get ruined. That should also mean unusable. It can happen when you shoot at an item on the ground directly, that works in Dayz. But how easy can some weapon rounds really get ruined? Or a backpack. For me, a backpack is ruined when it can't hold any items anymore. Loosing some or all slots could kind of simulate that. Taking off some poor guy's jacket which has a hole in the chest area should not really be a bummer. But I wanted to say that the severity of it currently artificially forces some bandits to go for a certain kind of kill like a headshot (unless they want the hat too). What we have is that they have to be sleazy backstabbers now too, but shouldn't be forced to be. They have to look for such opportunities like a clear sniping shot, or to approach someone and gain his trust to wait for the right moment.

Also I'm curious if this kind of 'dirty' death is acceptable to you in a game, as opposed to pure KOS.

Getting into more detail with item damage, (I'll get to the point in the end) I wonder how much these damaged clothing items should loose this 'protecting' factor. I know many things are still in the tweaking range by the devs. When damaged, I guess you could feel the 'breeze' and would suffer more of those environmental effects but you would get shot just the same with or without pristine clothing. If a clothing item is badly damaged, I think it could be interesting that you loose a slot or two of inventory space then, which would be like ripped side pocket on cargo pants. If they are ruined, I expect to see them shredded to bits but still wearable like now. Better than nothing. Relating to that, I think the spawning rate of all clothing items is too great and maybe should be reduced somewhat. But keeping the variety both of types and of course conditions of them on a server. It could be a thing that you find a proper and pristine set of warm clothes finally, and could be a reason more for any bandit to mug you. So after some time getting used to this, they could kind of watch not to mess things up there. Also, wearing heavy jackets and coats on a hot day should wear out your stamina faster if hyperthermia is not enough.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

3 hours ago, cirkular said:

Alright, so what are these new game mechanics that are not rules or a karma system which could help prevent KOS? I'd like to hear any ideas, and right now not much plausible ones come to my mind. Not particularly asking you, just since you mentioned it I'd like to hear from anyone who has any new ideas about it.

I think in the first place that this kind of kill from anyone is more in a 'better safe than sorry' way. They take what they can of your stuff, but are also safe now to continue looting through that place. Significantly less chances for revenge on them.

I would never support such an artificial thing as a karma system. As for the rules, it depends - I did play several non-KOS servers, knowing that people still KOS there. But there's a difference between a sniper at the NWAF and some bored teenager who thinks it's funny to run in circles and swing axes at each other. Some time ago I bought a Minecraft copy for my 8yo nephew and he spent an entire evening bashing villagers with a wooden sword. This is what I think about KOSers.

Coming back to the point - the main idea behind it is make DayZ a hard game. Like, make it 'gritty', maybe add some 'survival' aspects, or even 'horror'. Yeah, I know the line "DayZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game (...)", and I think it's very cute, as far as lies go. I have no idea who could believe this slogan, but mere 'surviving' in DayZ is easier than falling off a log. I was 'hungry' once in 2014 and then never went below bright-green 'energized' ever again. And this is not to gloat, it's just the survival issues in DayZ are at the 'My Little Pony' level. You find a few crucial items and you never have to worry about anything other than players, ever again.

But what if the disease system worked in such a way that the guy who's on the receiving end of your iron sights is worth asking if he has antibiotics stashed somewhere? What if he's got a 'cooking' skill and can make your food supply last much much longer? Or maybe you could use him to clear out the zeds at the Green Mountain, where good loot is said to spawn. Or maybe the guy has that one heli rotor blade which you're missing. Hell, maybe he has a can opener and you have only cans, like in the story above. Or maybe ammo is scarce and you don't want to waste bullets. Or maybe the shot will get a hundred zeds on your ass.

There are many, many ways to approach this (and like emuthreat, I have lots of stashes across Chernarus and can greatly reward anyone who's friendly to me), but behind all those options there's that assumption that DayZ becomes harder. That you actually have to manage your hunger, thirst and health, not just grab a few cans on your way to the NWAF. This is all in line with the promise - of a 'gritty' 'survival game', but certain players don't want the things to go that road and would rather insist on the 'easy mode' (only they would never call it that). Imagine if keeping your character healthy required effort! They would whine like little kids, like they did when stuff like temperature was implemented. "Hey, we bought Dayz as a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, please don't give us anything gritty, authentic, survival or horror."

 

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

6 hours ago, Vattenlarv said:

Developers should try to finalize their vision, and put it out there.

Yeah, I'm kinda worried if the devs succumb to the cries and tears of all those 12yo 'Rambos'. I have my faith in them (the devs, not the Rambos), but it's kinda hard to tell. For every two steps forward, I saw at least one step back. For example, the argument that food is abundant for loot table purposes (I'm foggy on the details) was never too convincing for me. And when they added temperature and wetness, perfect things for snuffing out campers, they simply had to make a rainproof military-grade item. I mean, what's the temperature even for if you have Gorka jackets in game? You put it on and the entire concepts of 'temperature', 'wetness' or 'being prone to diseases' cease to exist altogether. And the jacket is camo and has 6 slots, because what bad can happen if one item is clearly the best in its category.

I still remember the scarcity of loot in .52 or similar. The entire town of Chernaya Polana yielded a duct tape and a hammer (literally). It made me actually think what to do and where to go next. Best times.

[cirkular 178]

1 hour ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

Yeah, I know the line "DayZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game (...)", and I think it's very cute, as far as lies go. I have no idea who could believe this slogan, but mere 'surviving' in DayZ is easier than falling off a log. I was 'hungry' once in 2014 and then never went below bright-green 'energized' ever again. And this is not to gloat, it's just the survival issues in DayZ are at the 'My Little Pony' level. You find a few crucial items and you never have to worry about anything other than players, ever again.

Well I thought it was obvious but you see, when you say 'survival horror...' and then about finding some crucial items, you are talking about just a half of the picture which can be a joke or a frustrating challenge for some. And it all depends on the spawning of items, this "loot economy" which is a system still to be experimented with. It's funny, what if the items were not respawning at all?

But the other half is the one the whole topic is about. Since when is the opposition, meaning these other players, not being taken into survival aspect?! They are players like you in the first place, then they prove to be fist-fighting freshies, survivors, hermits and bored teenagers, heroes, bandits, mindless KOS griefers and such. But they are all your own kind. I'm not taking into account exploiters, cheaters, etc.

"What if the guy had..." examples some of you are mentioning here are nothing but wishful thinking. In reality. And what's "between the lines" is a hope that some of them read these forum posts. These are good guidelines for a better, clean and isolated gameplay experience for the new players and all of us. I get the effort you are making to encourage this kind of gameplay and try to improve it altogether and minimize frustration, you even invented some rewards. But in the long run it could be less rewarding for everyone. The good moments among many bad ones in our whole life is what we value closing to an end, right? Just reading about some of ideas here get me closer to more linear experience like some single-player games have which is just a paradox to be talking about a sandbox multi-player game. It's their own choice to kill you and miss on a huge chest of loot that only you know where it is. You know, like in the movies, the main character would never miss it :) But it is just not argumentative enough in reality of a chaotic multiplayer environment. If such an argument is possible at all there. All I'm saying is learn to accept it, there's not much to change here as it is right now. It will be less frustrating. New players will always be coming along.

I don't know how everyone plays, but I think there must be more caution and more conversation from us when being approached, or spotting someone first. Make sure you are safe, find some cover, or stay in cover. Eventually being assured that someone is trustful. This long game of trust is always portrayed in books and movies with similar and war-like themes. Think about it. I can't think of a better solution for KOS that would work in Dayz as it is now.

The 12 year olds are an unfortunate feature of Dayz experience. Yours and similar statements about them are too harsh :) This game is ESRB rated provisionally as Mature so it can be kind of even harder on some of them. We all know how ESRB works in reality. That's another topic. Imagine what it means for a 12yo's reality and the sudden anger and frustration when getting messed with and humiliated by some 16yo or even a group of them in a stupid computer game they got into. It's a kind of a plague since Warcraft and Minecraft from what I've heard and the results are obvious.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

11 hours ago, Vattenlarv said:

I am starting to give up on gaming, again,

Dude! It's all about "rogue-like" indie pixel art games right now, seriously!

I was going to make a thread praising them and suggesting them.

Dead Cells, Darkest Dungeon, Death Road to Canada, Dungreed.... and that's just the "D's"!

FTL, Into The Breach, Vagante, Sundered... these games tend to have immense replay value.

HD is for scroobs! :D

DayZ is the only thing I play that even resembles an FPS a little. FPS games are tired genre full of mind numbing copycat games.

8 hours ago, cirkular said:

Alright, so what are these new game mechanics that are not rules or a karma system which could help prevent KOS?

"I believe any survival elements introduced increase the amount of time it takes to get healthy and geared properly (and stay that way) making it more challenging and time consuming for people to embark on rinse and repeat death match missions. Camps and clans may impact this some but for smaller groups and solo players the struggle will be real.

If you're hot or cold, you'll be physically penalized with added sway or reduced stamina, or both, making PvP more difficult.

If it's raining and you don't have water proof gear and bag, will you risk getting ammo wet or becoming cold with rain to fight someone random out in the pouring rain?

If you are sick from drinking pond water or tainted meat, will you risk engaging every player you come across as you look for antibiotics while you're shaking, limping about, and possibly vomiting?

People will rush onto here complaining about each of these elements as they are implemented, guaranteed. Some of us are looking forward to them." - me

 

[Sqeezorz 839]

2 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

 

If you're hot or cold, you'll be physically penalized with added sway or reduced stamina, or both, making PvP more difficult.

If it's raining and you don't have water proof gear and bag, will you risk getting ammo wet or becoming cold with rain to fight someone random out in the pouring rain?

If you are sick from drinking pond water or tainted meat, will you risk engaging every player you come across as you look for antibiotics while you're shaking, limping about, and possibly vomiting?

People will rush onto here complaining about each of these elements as they are implemented, guaranteed. Some of us are looking forward to them." - me

 

this is the only Key for need your decisions , for survive a long time, or so long as possible to survive, this includ Interactions.

A sewing kit could be your rescue in the cold, if the player in front of you owns it, but only if it is better than damaged, otherwise it will not be able to fix your jacket. kill him and destroy your own chance to progress as you will have to keep warming yourself by the fire, and this is the risk you will see, or your condition will go deep.

[Lexman61 78]

14 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

.........some bored teenager who thinks it's funny to run in circles and swing axes at each other. Some time ago I bought a Minecraft copy for my 8yo nephew and he spent an entire evening bashing villagers with a wooden sword. This is what I think about KOSers.

14 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

all those 12yo 'Rambos'

I have some doubts about the real numbers of the so-called "KOS teenagers" which some claim to have "flooded" DayZ.

A younger player, mainly interested in a fast paced kill-on-sight action gaming experience has much better alternatives available than DayZ.

COD, PUBG, FORTNITE, DOOM, BATTLEFIELD and to some extent even Escape from Tarkov, all offer a superior adrenaline rush for the trigger happy aficionados. Geared, ready to go and with an available arsenal of weapons which makes DayZ look like a duck hunting game, there really is no comparison if KOS is your bread-and-butter. DayZ is simply too slow and "cumbersome" for the majority of these younger players. Too much of a nuisance having to re-gear every time you die and being forced to use whatever weapons and ammo you casually find.

This probably means that people who predominately KOS in DayZ are not so young OR that they, in any case, simply prefer this play style over the let's-socialize-around-the-campfire-after-having-spent-the-whole-day-making-new-friends one. (No hard feelings my dear Kirov).

People whom I have previously defined as belonging to an old "British Gentlemen's Club" within the DayZ community, simply cannot tolerate the idea that there are others who (once again for whatever reason), enjoy a KOS play style. They have their own "unwritten rules" on what DayZ really is and how it should really be played. A somewhat arrogant and self-righteous stance which I have often criticized and there is really nothing rhetoric about this critique. 

So old players or newcomers who do not fall in line with their anti-KOS dogma must be constantly "informed, guided, made aware of, scolded, educated, enlightened, deterred, and what have you, against the nefarious consequences of KOS which they believe should have little or no place in their view on how the DayZ experience should unfold.

DayZ is special because it allows each single player to enjoy and experience a large number of play styles. KOS is just one of them (and a too popular one according to the critics). To what degree each player wants to KOS, socialize, play the lone wolf, the Good Samaritan, the hero, the bandit, the psychopath is and must be a personal choice unrestricted by game mechanics and/or ideological motivations. 

There are enough players who don't make KOS their primary choice to interact with if you wish, but complaining about it because it's "wrong, should be avoided, or is against some unwritten higher code of conduct" is fallacious.

Regards

Edited June 22, 2018 by Lexman61

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

2 hours ago, Lexman61 said:

younger player, mainly interested in a fast paced kill-on-sight action gaming experience has much better alternatives available than DayZ

I've been saying this forever.

But nothing LOOKS like DayZ.

People become fascinated with the look and feel of this game even if the actual game play isn't as smooth or polished. Something about the ambiance of the game makes it more attractive.  

Personally I find most FPS games to be boring, repetitive, and the least cerebrally challenging type of game available. Fast twitch point and click, shoot everything that moves, requires little problem solving, or dynamic game play mechanics. DayZ gave me a reason to carry a gun in a game but it also gives you a choice whether to use it or not.

Many of these types of FPS gamers think Nintendo games are just for kids and call Diablo an "RPG".

I would be shocked to learn that you own a 3DS or could appreciate the incredible nuance of a game like smash brothers because you can't look past the cartoon style of the characters.

3 click golf games?

Rhythm games?

Turn based strategy?

Procedurally generated 2D platformers, beat em ups, and rpg's?

The skill (and fun) involved in the monkeyball games main modes?

These were/are games who's fun is lost on FPS gamers. The sweaty rage filled man children who are addicted to the bump they get from a moment of dominance because they feel so ineffectual in real life.

Did you know that it's possible to have a poor idea as to what constitutes fun?

It's not subjective. Here's an example.

I think alcohol is mostly disgusting and most bars play bad music and foster the worst of human behavior on a regular basis but somehow people think bars and booze are "fun". Puking, getting into fights, crying depressed, spending 10x the price for a drink, trying to have a screaming conversation with a friend as they spit and slur. So much fun! So many people do this for years on end, this must be the pinnacle of enjoyment, right?

[Lexman61 78]

2 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Did you know that it's possible to have a poor idea as to what constitutes fun?

It's not subjective. Here's an example.

I think alcohol is mostly disgusting and most bars play bad music and foster the worst of human behavior on a regular basis but somehow people think bars and booze are "fun". Puking, getting into fights, crying depressed, spending 10x the price for a drink, trying to have a screaming conversation with a friend as they spit and slur. So much fun! So many people do this for years on end, this must be the pinnacle of enjoyment, right?

Yes you have boozers, brawlers, drink-to-forget-or-to-get-high types who hang out in sordid bars and pathetically disgrace themselves under the influence of alcohol AND you have wine and spirit connoisseurs who enjoy the fine nuances of what they are drinking and are very knowledgeable about their passion. Putting all alcohol drinkers in the same negative category seems a bit too unimaginative and just slightly crude.

So putting all DayZ players who enjoy KOS in the same boat and sticking stereotype labels on them doesn't really get us anywhere.Who are you to judge why somebody kills-on-sight and why and how much they enjoy this play style? Unless of course, you believe your way of playing is the only right and God given way.

Back to the old British Gentlemen's Club of the ones who know better.

Regards

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

1 hour ago, Lexman61 said:

So putting all DayZ players who enjoy KOS in the same boat and sticking stereotype labels on them doesn't really get us anywhere.

Even among my mostly neutral (until provoked) DayZ friends there is often discussion about whether we should adopt a more aggressive pro-KoS stance. Often it's decided that it is more interesting to talk first and see how things pan out. Some of these guys play KoS style for 1000's of hours but have said that they found they really enjoy the more mixed approach once they've seen it in action.

1 hour ago, Lexman61 said:

Who are you to judge why somebody kills-on-sight and why and how much they enjoy this play style?

I don't need to "judge" why people KoS. They have been posting why here for 6 years.

Boredom. This is how my friends play. Someone KoS'd me, so now I KoS. Oh, I thought KoS was synonymous with survival?

^That's mostly what you'll hear if you ask.

The guy who posted that it depended on his mood (among other things) is likely what I think most KoS players go by. There is little consideration for the context of the game or immersion and there's no way you can tell if a player is neutral or aggressive from how they dress or move. That's just bullshit justification to make you feel better for griefing.

PongoZ KoS'd me while I was standing at the car wrecks outside Tisy and then was hunted and killed by emuthreat on that server multiple times. Now he's in here saying he doesn't KoS...? Sorry man, you can't have it both ways.

KingOfTime KoS'd me while I was standing in a tent and later apologized in the forum after reading my account of the encounter saying he had just been KoS'd multiple times and had lashed out.

Your gentlemens club analogy doesn't offer much in the way of supporting your arguments and is not truly accurate in describing the anti-KoS thoughts found in this thread. I simply don't do it, ever. That's the right way for me to play. Survival for me means not dying, which includes avoiding incoming fire at all costs. Force protection as defense is my last option when all else seems impossible. Yesterday, I avoided KoS twice by evading my assailants. I "won" because I survived. When it becomes a real fight, and I win, my victory is righteous.

During the height of DayZ's popularity the "everyone KoS's" mentality was the prevailing wisdom here but strangely enough as years have progressed, the KoS types are the ones who burn out on DayZ (likely moving on to their next shooter) and the more dynamic players have stayed and fleshed out more and more diverse ways to enjoy the game. I expect things to shift back to KoS as order of the day when 1.0 is released. Camping sniper locations to kill fresh spawns from 400 meters with an SVD will come back into vogue.... So have no fear, your ungentlemanly club will surely sprout up again in due time!

What really takes balls is being a true bandit and robbing people at gunpoint. As this is seen as more dangerous than simply taking a shot at someone who didn't see you, people opt for KoS. Many non-KoS players would much rather capitulate to a robber who got the drop on them than simply getting shot at and being flung into a mostly unfounded (as they see it) battle.

Edited June 22, 2018 by ☣BioHaze☣

[emuthreat 2837]

This is getting beyond ridiculous.  At the core of this discussion, it's all about ratios. I very rarely KOS unknowns, as a matter of principle; trying to not push the ratio too far in the direction of chaos.
But players that I know have KOS'd or frequently backstabbed, even from reports of other players; well, they will normally get a lecture, a bullet, or both; conditions allowing.

Deal with it in game.  It's tons of fun to ID a KOS player, and try to track them down and make their life harder.  It's significantly less fun to go around in circles arguing the ethics of it, especially when my penchant for beer is dragged through the mud...

[Mantasisg 172]

I bet that there is direct correlation between amount of player encounters and severity of KOS.

I bet that less encounters results in more KOS.

I bet that if you'll meet one person per hour it will be roughly (from my recent experiences) 70% that it will be instant attack. Two encounters per hour will be 49% for KOS during the hour, three - 39% KOS chance during the hour, four - 24% during the hour.....

I have assumed that if one player to player encounter happens then it for various reasons has about 30% of chance to turn out friendly (of course it is random percent, I haven't really run statistics lol), as amounts of interactions would be increasing KOS chance would be dropping down for various reasons:

• Begining of simple social mechanism as more people gather around and try to interact with each other, two bambies are stronger than one;
• Multiplied targets in area will automatically reduce chances of you being a target, unless unlucky haha;
• More frequent encounters will satisfy the thirst of players who KOS and they will aim for more social play style after a while;
• Lack of encounters leaves people asking why on earth they spent three hours to find that gear and still haven't used it, so it is very likely that they will KOS the first player they will see. it is sad. 
   

 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

3 hours ago, emuthreat said:

especially when my penchant for beer is dragged through the mud...

Yeah well, alcohol gets enough praise, don't you think?

People get all bent out of shape when I say alcohol is a disgusting scourge that takes a massive social and economical toll on society. Do you know anybody who is dead because of drunk driving or alcoholism? I do. God forbid someone speaks the truth. I myself was nearly killed by a drunk driver when I was 20.

I meet guys my age who drink and I look nearly 20 years younger than them.

But because it's "socially acceptable" the truth about alcohol is drowned out.

Funny, sounds like KoS in some ways huh?

I agree that this subject is mostly a moot discussion and I try to stay out sometimes but I guess I like to see myself type or enjoy some of the debate.

[-Gews- 7443]

On 6/21/2018 at 5:56 AM, Kirov (DayZ) said:

FYI, I like a high threat level, I just want it to be meaningful, i.e. when I get shot by bad guys, not bored guys.

Who says I'm bored? And are bored and bad mutually exclusive? Is anyone really 'bad' in this virtual space? Do you want to be shot by... uh... hackers?
 

On 6/21/2018 at 5:56 AM, Kirov (DayZ) said:

And I just love how you guys completely lack any self-awareness. "DayZ is a vast sandbox where you can do absolutely anything you want! You can shoot people! You can get shot at! Err... and that's about it, but what do you expect, deep down DayZ is just a shooter!".

Maybe so, since I'm not understanding this bit?
 

On 6/21/2018 at 5:56 AM, Kirov (DayZ) said:

I like that, I really do. You guys are so tolerant and accepting of other people's playstyles, providing it's the 'shoot'em' mentality. Just keep being you, it's funny this way.

"I like that, I really do. You guys are so tolerant and accepting of other people's playstyles, providing it's the 'shoot'em' talk-to-'em mentality. Just keep being you, it's funny this way."

Fixed?

[-Gews- 7443]

7 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

The guy who posted that it depended on his mood (among other things) is likely what I think most KoS players go by. There is little consideration for the context of the game or immersion and there's no way you can tell if a player is neutral or aggressive from how they dress or move. That's just bullshit justification to make you feel better for griefing.

PongoZ KoS'd me while I was standing at the car wrecks outside Tisy and then was hunted and killed by emuthreat on that server multiple times. Now he's in here saying he doesn't KoS...? Sorry man, you can't have it both ways.

KingOfTime KoS'd me while I was standing in a tent and later apologized in the forum after reading my account of the encounter saying he had just been KoS'd multiple times and had lashed out.

I remember when I KOS'd DicklePick on 0.61 experimental and... no one cared.

But previously I'd run into and run with DicklePick for a couple hours and he was even nice enough to avoid killing me when I had a CTD right in front of him.

[emuthreat 2837]

28 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

I remember when I KOS'd DicklePick on 0.61 experimental and... no one cared.

Hahahah  DicklePick.  That takes me back.  We hunted him for the better part of a week and managed to establish some kind of a rapport after a few interactions.
 

I think I'll always prefer friendly contact over instant back screens, or looting fucked-up corpses of randos I shot "just cuz."  But there is really nothing much that can be done about the players who carry their entire experience on their backs, save painstakingly creating a heatmap of known contact points and trying to run across the needle in the haystack, which is fun in itself for some players ME.  In the past, Dayz wasn't challenging enough, so it made for a great mission to hunt down the 'bad actors' on a chosen server and either try to convert them to allies, or grief them out of relevance.

As much as I like to champion the concept of cooperative play, I get just as much fun out of trying to hunt down the few guys on the top of my short list.  And I guess it just comes down to preferences for playstyles.  Some people shoot everyone they see for no other reason than that is what they always do.  And those players have in essence chosen their own lot, as the Confederated Gentlemen of Chernarus will now have something to do besides clear towns and farm pumpkins.  As it should be.

But really, this discussion has gone off the rails.  I don't think anybody wants to eliminate KOS, it's just that it's much nicer atmosphere when the forces are a bit more balanced.  Especially on EXP and Stress Tests, which is what this thread is about...

[Vattenlarv 81]

On 6/22/2018 at 5:27 AM, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Dude! It's all about "rogue-like" indie pixel art games right now, seriously!

I have played Darkest Dungeon like a mad dog. Awesome game! I am a total sucker for first person experiences though, and a true belieber that we will one day have that really challenging and brutal experience, with natural and intuitive game play, possibilities, dangers, but also "natural" limitations within the game world without compromising player's free will. I am not waiting for the matrix, but I would love a game in which I would not exclaim frustration over completely unrealistic events, player behavior, etc, every time I sit down with it.

[Lexman61 78]

19 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Your gentlemens club analogy doesn't offer much in the way of supporting your arguments and is not truly accurate in describing the anti-KoS thoughts found in this thread.

The "Old British Gentlemen's Club" is simply a metaphor to describe some conservative and elitist forum commentators who believe their way of playing DayZ is the only and most genuine one. They seem to think that unless you play in accordance to their "unwritten rules and spirit" you are deviating from what they unconditionally believe to be the "true nature" of DayZ.

Their criticism of what they regard to be "non-conforming" behavior and/or play style is sometimes blunt and sometimes veiled but the bottom line is always the same; they reject a live-and-let-live philosophy. Play in any want you desire because this is a video game and not a chess game with fixed rules to obey, is not acceptable not them.

KOS is obviously a perfect example. Their basic message in regards is always the same. If you follow a KOS play style than there is something basically wrong in how you interpret the game. Either you are a teenage kid who thinks DayZ is COD or you are some poor ignorant soul who needs to be educated on all the wonderful and better alternatives to KOS DayZ offers. The notion that somebody in their right mind could purposely and willfully want to adopt a KOS attitude while playing DayZ is to them pure heresy.

Having a wide range of choices in a game is always a positive element, but this does not automatically imply that one must be obliged to exploit them. There are many KOS players out there who are neither COD kids nor uninformed "simpletons".  They KOS because they enjoy this way of playing (and are perfectly aware of the alternatives), and what is the basic idea of a video game if not to enjoy yourself according to your own desires (no questions asked). 

Unfortunately, this a never ending and rather tiresome debate. 

15 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Yeah well, alcohol gets enough praise, don't you think?

People get all bent out of shape when I say alcohol is a disgusting scourge that takes a massive social and economical toll on society. Do you know anybody who is dead because of drunk driving or alcoholism? I do. God forbid someone speaks the truth. I myself was nearly killed by a drunk driver when I was 20.

I meet guys my age who drink and I look nearly 20 years younger than them.

But because it's "socially acceptable" the truth about alcohol is drowned out.

Funny, sounds like KoS in some ways huh?

The let's-get-drunk, booze-to-party attitude is basically of Anglo-Saxon/ Scandinavian origin. Populations in the south of Europe, due to historical and social reasons, have always had a more mature and balanced relationship to alcohol. 

Americans, on the contrary, on many social issues tend to go to extremes. From the excessive and at times mind boggling politically correct, to outright bigotry and conservatism bordering on the reactionary in the political spectrum.   

A mature and responsible attitude to alcohol is the way to go. Neither irresponsible and pathetic binge drinking nor general and demonizing proclamations.  The golden middle way is, this case, the best.

Comparing KOS to the "socially accepted" American drinking culture is truly below the mark BioHaze. I know you can do better.

Regards

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Lexman61

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

3 hours ago, Lexman61 said:

Comparing KOS to the "socially accepted" American drinking culture is truly below the mark BioHaze. I know you can do better

There's a clear correlation as far as acceptability is concerned. There was a long time on DayZ forum where you would have had many supporters in this thread but those people didn't have the intestinal fortitude to make it through the dev process.

CoD kiddie, "most dangerous game" hunter, "survivalist" who thinks KoS is = survival, all produce the same impact on the player base.

It creates a never ending game of pass the grief potato.

It's a shame people aren't more creative or imaginative with this platform but at this point it's expected and basically indicative of the mentality of people at large, always choosing the path of least resistance, least thought.

[emuthreat 2837]

7 hours ago, Lexman61 said:

they reject a live-and-let-live philosophy

Is this irony??

[benedictus 160]

Without KoS the game would get boring quick. There has to be the sense of "danger" when you wonder into the cities or when your weapons go off. 

Sometimes I shoot first and ask questions later, and sometimes I do the opposite. If I get killed by a sniper or someone camping inside house, I don't blame him, I blame myself for letting my guard down.

KoS is part of the game, personally I hope it stays that way. There's plenty of ways to play the game.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Zombies also KoS

Human players are always FAR more interesting and UNPREDICTABLE than NPCs