Experimental Update 0.63.149653

[Derleth 1352]

29 minutes ago, Reaper TDO said:

So what we are saying is the game on the EXP branch is still fucked and there will be NO update to stable anytime soon.

Ummm, no, exp is actually pretty damn smooth from what I've seen. If anyone has bothered to build a base or put together a working car they would have more info about those and any remaining persistence issues. I've played perhaps 5-6 hours of the latest exp build and had no crashes, no wall glitching or teleporting infected, no missing gun sounds, no stuck attachments. Basically no problems at all, beyond losing interest in assembling a car when there were no parts within a 1-2 km radius.

Spawn WORKING cars on experimental. Please.

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

32 minutes ago, Reaper TDO said:

So what we are saying is the game on the EXP branch is still fucked and there will be NO update to stable anytime soon.

What we are saying is this was broken in the mod and a workaround was put in place but the problem was never fixed and now after having 5 years and at least two if not three redesigns the database is just as screwed now as it was 5 years ago only this time they didn’t bother to include a workaround.   That’s what is being said.  

[Derleth 1352]

1 hour ago, barelyinfected said:

Let's be honest, there are also very few players on there atm. Backupping is good and awesome, and I'm all for automated solutions but it shouldn't be on the communities to develop this. The devs should build that into the product if this is the way to go.

Edit: Also I have had cases where there was no crash and bases were gone.

To be fair the player numbers are growing on Dayzcore, we were 20-30 people a couple of nights ago, the community base there has really kicked things off. And I did say I think a persistence backup system should be baseline, i.e. not up to the community. The underlying magic matters little to me as long as it works. As for localised wipes and wipes not related to crashes, it doesn't seem to be very common. It would be nice if the latest exp patch is pushed to stable soon so we can start testing in earnest and see how much of the problem remains.

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

@Beavis3D just like the Xbox players whined and whined for an update they got 24 hours of rain and night time.   Don’t be hasty asking for a patch to Stable.   You could end up worse off than before.  

[Reaper TDO 14]

11 minutes ago, Beavis3D said:

Ummm, no, exp is actually pretty damn smooth from what I've seen. If anyone has bothered to build a base or put together a working car they would have more info about those and any remaining persistence issues. I've played perhaps 5-6 hours of the latest exp build and had no crashes, no wall glitching or teleporting infected, no missing gun sounds, no stuck attachments. Basically no problems at all, beyond losing interest in assembling a car when there were no parts within a 1-2 km radius.

Spawn WORKING cars on experimental. Please.

Well, that good for EXP servers but Stable servers not so much EXP servers you say are working fine, try playing on the so-called stable they need updating if the EXP batch is working fine. 

[Reaper TDO 14]

3 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

@Beavis3D just like the Xbox players whined and whined for an update they got 24 hours of rain and night time.   Don’t be hasty asking for a patch to Stable.   You could end up worse off than before.  

well according to Beavis3D he is not getting any problems on EXP

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

@Reaper TDO  I should point out there are no private exp servers atm.   So they don’t even have a way for anyone to test a patch on a private hive.  Which is where these persistence problems seem to occur. 

[gaweu 42]

1 hour ago, philippj said:

The hive is not out yet for the general public. Only legacy GSPs and BI has it. Currently the players are saved in a SQLite database. Persistence in binary files in whatever format.

If an application actually crashes - not stopping and not in a graceful way - files which are opened, may get corrupted and there is no shutdown procedure either. Such a crash should never happen and can be circumvented with various methods. Fact is the DayZ server crashes and sometimes data gets corrupted. 

Just freaking get cobian backup with shadowcopy lol

[Reaper TDO 14]

24 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

@Reaper TDO  I should point out there are no private exp servers atm.   So they don’t even have a way for anyone to test a patch on a private hive.  Which is where these persistence problems seem to occur. 

1

really well that is fucked up if they need players to fully test they should push it to private servers too makes sense 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

Can someone confirm DayZ SA is using SQLITE to store data?  Is that correct?

Edited December 4, 2018 by THEGordonFreeman

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

After a bit of googling, many people do point that DayZ uses SQLite for storage.  If that is true, someone needs to explain how BI intends to remedy this situation as billions of devices including other well known games use SQLite and either don't have these corruptions or developers using SQLite have mitigated the issue to such a degree it is transparent to user or server owner.  How does this get fixed and how in the world are we as private community server owners supposed to test it before it hits STABLE?

[philippj 103]

1 hour ago, gaweu said:

Just freaking get cobian backup with shadowcopy lol

You really want to use a freaking outdated piece of software?

I got my own, intelligent backup/recovery solution for the current issues with the gameserver.

 

37 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

After a bit of googling, many people do point that DayZ uses SQLite for storage.  If that is true, someone needs to explain how BI intends to remedy this situation as billions of devices including other well known games use SQLite and either don't have these corruptions or developers using SQLite have mitigated the issue to such a degree it is transparent to user or server owner.  How does this get fixed and how in the world are we as private community server owners supposed to test it before it hits STABLE?

SQLite is used for the player database only. The persistence is stored in bin files. Also "billions" of devices use SQLite for miniscule amount of data but no enterprise software uses SQLite as actual data backend for a large infrastructure. Please do proper research on the topic before starting a revolt. There is no issue whatsoever with the gameserver using SQLite.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by philippj

[IMT 3190]

3 hours ago, philippj said:

The hive is not out yet for the general public. Only legacy GSPs and BI has it. Currently the players are saved in a SQLite database. Persistence in binary files in whatever format.

If an application actually crashes - not stopping and not in a graceful way - files which are opened, may get corrupted and there is no shutdown procedure either. Such a crash should never happen and can be circumvented with various methods. Fact is the DayZ server crashes and sometimes data gets corrupted. 

That's exactly what I suspect. I don't own or run a server but I have played around on an own server and the only way to shutdown the server is to close it. There is no message or what ever which tells you it's shutting down it is just gone instantly. I'm not sure if they write the persistence files away before it closes or make sure it isn't writing but that would cause the issue. It would indeed corrupt the data which would lead to a wipe of persistence.

1 hour ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Can someone confirm DayZ SA is using SQLITE to store data?  Is that correct?

 

1 hour ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

After a bit of googling, many people do point that DayZ uses SQLite for storage.  If that is true, someone needs to explain how BI intends to remedy this situation as billions of devices including other well known games use SQLite and either don't have these corruptions or developers using SQLite have mitigated the issue to such a degree it is transparent to user or server owner.  How does this get fixed and how in the world are we as private community server owners supposed to test it before it hits STABLE?

It depends, they use a SQLite database to store the players but that's not the issue. The issue is with the persistent world objects, which get stored in a .bin file. Which probably is written in binary or stored as an object.

Edited December 4, 2018 by IMT

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

@philippj    Don't misunderstand what I'm getting at and don't start a lecture when you aren't aware of the reasoning for a question  I now understand the player.db is using SQLite.  I asked the question for the very reason you said... the actual persistence files are binary.....why not have them in the SQLite database?  It has a protection mechanism built in to keep this kind of shit from happening.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how fucked this is.  I have worked with SQLite in the past.  I'd love to know what reasoning for not using it for persistent data as it is HIGHLY resilient to the type of corruption we are experiencing right now.

Backing up data is most certainly part of the job of a responsible server owner; however, it's not their job to overcome piss poor development decisions by making work arounds.  Whose job do you think that is?  Who is responsible for fixing code? 

Edited December 4, 2018 by THEGordonFreeman

[CzowiekVAC 1]

@impulZ
And we still can not build a gate, only a wall

GG DEV GUYS :D

Edited December 4, 2018 by CzowiekVAC

[Anomal 13]

Where to download experimental server files?
I want to test server as well!

[Rammit (DayZ) 153]

40 minutes ago, K3L3G said:

Where to download experimental server files?
I want to test server as well!

There are no server files for experimental, as stated at the top of the patch notes... Server files get released with stable branch updates.

On 12/3/2018 at 5:46 AM, ImpulZ said:

 

Please keep in mind that Experimental updates are not available for server files or modding tools yet. Those will be updated with the Stable release of the patch.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Rammit (DayZ)

[Dwardo Rodregez 14]

On 12/3/2018 at 6:32 PM, ScrotyMcBoogerBalls said:

so very disappointed that there's no mention of key rebinding, 2500hrs in the game and not 1hr since the game hit beta.

people keep saying the key binding is fixed but it most certainly is not, I've tried on a regular basis to get key rebound and every time I rebind some keys and hit apply the game just CTD's, this ain't great for a left-handed player who rebinds 99%  of keys to be able to play.

Same here. Hack or in menu and it either crashes or doesnt bind. Poor show for all of us that have a thousand hours plus in the game and have been forgotten about.

[Reaper TDO 14]

1 hour ago, Dwardo Rodregez said:

Same here. Hack or in menu and it either crashes or doesnt bind. Poor show for all of us that have a thousand hours plus in the game and have been forgotten about.

as a lefty, my self-did  not play at all until I changed the key bind in the XML

Edited December 4, 2018 by Reaper TDO

[FunkInYourTrunk 354]

did they start releasing experimental server files aswell?  was pretty sure they havent but have noticed over the last 2 or 3 experimental patches the same few people keep posting to complain about the state of persistance on their private server.  which i would have assumed would be a topic for the stable thread of the forum.  are you guys somehow running your servers with experimental server files?  if not maybe the problem with your server is that it is being run by someone who cant even figure out how to navigate a forum.....

[pilgrim* 3513]

9 hours ago, philippj said:

The hive is not out yet for the general public. Only legacy GSPs and BI has it.

But - the BI "public hive" and "the shards" are not "out" anywhere, and will not be .. The BI Hive and BI Hive Shards ARE what we are talking about, right ?
By "legacy GSPs", you must mean the same defined set of GSPs who HAVE the franchise to sell DZ server instances,  and always HAD it from the start of DayZ SA. - What is "legacy" about them?  Each of those GSPs does NOT have  'it's own'  separate copy of the Hive, which is BI owned software running on BI owned hardware. This is how come  a player on the public hive, ie "Official Servers" (and on private  servers who have chosen to run on the public Hive)  - can log in to ANY public instance of DayZ anywhere in the world, no matter which SP is providing it.

Each GSP does not have it's own "public hive". And when you log in to a new server, that new server does NOT interrogate your last server (whatever SP that was on) to see what equipment you are carrying. Hey, the last server you played on may not even be running at all now.  The server you login to interrogates and updates the central hive.

In what way do you expect BI's hive to be given "out for the general public" someday? ... you mean that private server owners (modders), running their own servers, not hiring from the BI designated SPs, will be able to establish their own shards, (I guess?). They sure WONT establish their own "public hive" (or have a local copy of it ! ) because ..   as you know  -
   ... there can be only one ... 

But, bottom line, what has this to do with Experimental ? 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

32 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

But, bottom line, what has this to do with Experimental ? 

I will explain this one more time..... they do not have any private servers on EXP... None...nada....zip and private servers are primarily affected by this persistence problem.   We are here lodging these concerns as this issue affects thousands of DayZ servers...THOUSANDS, and without an emphasis on this issue being top priority, the thousands of servers will dwindle to nothing as no one will play on them if they can't build and keep a base reliably.

[drgullen 593]

Regarding basebuilding, people seem to be forgetting that this is still a Beta game.  If you've rented servers and set them up to tailor to basebuilding at this stage of the game, that's a bit like putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?  Who's to say in the next week or so that the devs slightly change the way basebuilding works and a full persistence wipe will be necessary anyway?  Don't you think there will be a full wipe required when we go from 0.63 to 1.0?  I'd be willing to bet the first patch that essentially becomes 1.0 will require it.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that persistent data shouldn't be vanishing, but again, it is still Beta -- if this was happening 1.0 or beyond then sure, all you server owners would have a legitimate beef -- but until 1.0, shouldn't we cut them a bit of slack and let them fix it?

I'm sorry, I just think expecting your base to exist permanently while the game is still in Beta is expecting a lot.

[Private Evans 1303]

17 minutes ago, drgullen said:

Regarding basebuilding, people seem to be forgetting that this is still a Beta game.  If you've rented servers and set them up to tailor to basebuilding at this stage of the game, that's a bit like putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?  Who's to say in the next week or so that the devs slightly change the way basebuilding works and a full persistence wipe will be necessary anyway?  Don't you think there will be a full wipe required when we go from 0.63 to 1.0?  I'd be willing to bet the first patch that essentially becomes 1.0 will require it.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that persistent data shouldn't be vanishing, but again, it is still Beta -- if this was happening 1.0 or beyond then sure, all you server owners would have a legitimate beef -- but until 1.0, shouldn't we cut them a bit of slack and let them fix it?

I'm sorry, I just think expecting your base to exist permanently while the game is still in Beta is expecting a lot.

again...if  everything is that fucked then why did they release server files and modding tools , making things more complicated ...

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

^^^^^THIS SO MUCH^^^^^