Status Report - 13 February 2018

[Girth Brooks 570]

Once I complete a show ( I work in live sports tv) it usually takes me a month to get paid for said show. I bet that would drive most people here crazy. 

Also, my name is attached to that work until the end of time, or whenever the internet decides to take a dump forever. I make damn sure I do a great job, all prep work is done, and we all can deliver the best content we can to the customer. Same thing goes for the devs. If the Devs didn't believe this project would be worth it I doubt they would risk their careers over it. All great things take time. I wish they were a bit more transparent of course with what is going on, but apparently it's crunch time now. Also things change, and stuff has to happen on the fly for good or bad.

I've been enjoying a ton of great games on Steam lately, plenty of stuff to do while they do their thing.

Looking forward to 2018! 

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

2 hours ago, blackberrygoo said:

This game and dev team is really disappointing as of late . Now they Are reworking the melee system AGAIN when they said everything looked good months ago , yet now they see that their “almost perfect” melee system is fundamentally incorrect for the entire flow of the game ? How the hell do you oversight that for the whole 6 months that we’ve been waiting since gamescom when you first told us “melee is where we want it to be right now”?

Welcome to game development!

"We just did a thing and we like it." [some time passes] "We've thought more about the thing and turns out it's not what we want after all."
This is very common, but not as common as "We're working on a thing but we're running out of time so just scrap it."

Don't forget this only one of the many things that have been reworked or reworked more than once.

P.S. Loosen your tinfoil hat, jeez.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[RaptorM60 392]

3 hours ago, blackberrygoo said:

Is the dayz dev cycle that taxing that you devs literally need to purge yourselves from the community, essentially removing any chance at transparency with the people that are supposed to help accelerate the early access process ? 

Yes it is. It's tough even for me or Baty at this point to get answers, or Status Report contributions for that matter from our team as everyone is extremely busy. And that, unfortunately, won't change until something playable is out from the 0.63 build, because until then, there is a lot to do, and not much to discuss, or collect feedback on. We all just need to survive that part somehow.

It's also a matter of "mental hygiene" for many. Logically, with our pace of updates for the past 18 months, there is little positivity left in the community. It's tough to know that your everyday dev work is already frustrating at times, and then you read shit about it on the internet. That doesn't help you focus on your work.

That covers your "development has essentially halted" remark for example. I can probably understand why you think that (despite we keep on saying what's being worked on, and what are our goals). I know I've felt that at some point when I was not with Bohemia, but a DayZ fan just like everybody else here, but it's just NOT TRUE. Nothing's halted. I wish there was a better way to say it, or show it, as it's SO frustrating for me as well, but the only thing that can change that situation is a playable build. We don't have one yet that would cover our expectations for an Experimental 0.63 build.

[cirkular 178]

Boy, the anxiety, eagerness and impatience about 0.63 :D

I guess if we were early access testers who were instead paid for their work, we wouldn't mind not getting any new releases to test. That means less work... sounds great! :D

[bingo_fuel 205]

8 hours ago, blackberrygoo said:

Also I’m in aggreance with what cristiano said ; months ago (almost a year now) the devs mentioned that development would only go faster and more streamlined due to the sql code being removed , yet we have seen quite the opposite . Development has essentially halted and all I see now is the lesser known devs biding for time while hicks is nowhere to be found and Eugen, who’s likely the only competent PR member of the entire team left, is out doing all the bitch work for the rest of the dayz team cuz he legit does all the work now and for whatever reason Bohemia has cut work for the rest of the team that used to do Pr work , so now all we have are these damn cheeky ass mods and baty that presents another useless client side update every month or so .

If you look at DayZ it seems as development has halted since there were not major update for a long time. But we don't see the internal progress and what the people are doing. I guess they cannot win. If they did release very detailed SR some people would start to say "stop writing texts and work on the game". I also think that your statement regarding the new scripting language is not correct: the process will be streamlined when all necessary components are implemented in a basic version and the devs never said that this point was reached. Sure one big point was to drop all legacy code but this is not the only thing that was holding back .63.

We simply don't see what the devs are doing and I don't think that they are obligated to share every bit of development with us. I also think that some devs have gone quiet (like brian) but I assume that they are all working hard on .63

 

[gorvi 189]

10 hours ago, blackberrygoo said:

Why would anyone be so damn excited for dusty ass trails, when there’s so much content they have literally been holding hostage with all of their overly perfectionist plans? Rewriting old systems is fine but this is a bit of overkill now . Let us test the damn build so it can go quicker , isn’t that the whole point of this alpha test B.s? I’m starting to believe there’s something going on that they don’t want us to know about .. Something isn’t right and it’s obvious, they are really asking a lot from us patience wise and now they are acting as if they don’t know what they could do better with transparency (what a joke) - they just aren’t telling us the whole truth like they used to and expect us to be ok with that. 

This is work which was done while they are waiting for these new features and systems to be complete.

 

10 hours ago, blackberrygoo said:

This game and dev team is really disappointing as of late . Now they Are reworking the melee system AGAIN when they said everything looked good months ago , yet now they see that their “almost perfect” melee system is fundamentally incorrect for the entire flow of the game ? How the hell do you oversight that for the whole 6 months that we’ve been waiting since gamescom when you first told us “melee is where we want it to be right now”?

Tweaks to the melee system are just that.  Tweaks.  The underlying tech is complete which allows devs to fine tune and internally test how it operates in a live scenario.  Since they are working on more features which are considered blockers for experimental, it gives devs time to play around with things.

 

10 hours ago, blackberrygoo said:

Also I’m in aggreance with what cristiano said ; months ago (almost a year now) the devs mentioned that development would only go faster and more streamlined due to the sql code being removed , yet we have seen quite the opposite . Development has essentially halted and all I see now is the lesser known devs biding for time while hicks is nowhere to be found and Eugen, who’s likely the only competent PR member of the entire team left, is out doing all the bitch work for the rest of the dayz team cuz he legit does all the work now and for whatever reason Bohemia has cut work for the rest of the team that used to do Pr work , so now all we have are these damn cheeky ass mods and baty that presents another useless client side update every month or so .

I don’t know what’s happening down at bohemia But I don’t like it , and it’s day and night from the dayz dev team that I use to respect . Now it seems like a shallow , half empty team and if you didn’t know how they operated before this terrible rough patch then you could safely assume that the team just doesn’t know what they are doing and don’t have their priorities straight , and honestly that’s not far from the truth .

Cut the wool over the eyes act , we can see you aren’t as transparent as you used to be , we can see the core members of the team that were good at communicating are MIA or “too busy” (being overworked) to respond to the community that made them what they are today . Overall I can tell you things have changed for the worse over in the dayz dev cycle area, where once we could talk to the lead devs and producer all day on twitter and the forums , now we go months without getting a solid answer on even the simplest things .

I feel like the dayz devs and their cycle is like the set of a movie in production : at first everything goes smoothly and the whole cast is attentive but as soon as the entire film is recorded all the celebrities go back to their Hollywood hills mansions and forget about how they were  in production with the film , almost like detaching a sick limb from the body . Is the dayz dev cycle that taxing that you devs literally need to purge yourselves from the community, essentially removing any chance at transparency with the people that are supposed to help accelerate the early access process ? 

You are overreacting and reaching for reasons to discredit the team.  Its comments and attacks like yours which make the devs avoid the community.  All the answers are there if you took the time to both look and learn rather than going after BI and the devs because of your own ignorance.  I'm sure if you didn't act so aggressive and show a willingness to listen a lot of your concerns would be addressed by both the community and devs, but it feels as though your mind is made up.  The most that can be done at this point is wait until 0.63 so you can make a judgement with a fresh perspective.  Lots of very hard work has gone into DayZ and Enfusion which inadequately translate to words when users dont understand the underlying tech devs spent years on to make possible.

[gorvi 189]

7 hours ago, RaptorM60 said:

It's also a matter of "mental hygiene" for many. Logically, with our pace of updates for the past 18 months, there is little positivity left in the community. It's tough to know that your everyday dev work is already frustrating at times, and then you read shit about it on the internet. That doesn't help you focus on your work.

I can not stress this enough.  Lots of users think that trolling and "nipping at the heels" of the devs makes them work faster, when in fact its probably very depressing to see all your hard work being called shit at the end of the day.  Some devs took time out of their personal life to try to explain things only to be met with backlash.  For example, I enjoyed Brians perspectives into game design and his passion for DayZ in the status reports.  Alas, it only became another attacking point both against the development of the game and his character.

Quite frankly, devs are doing the right thing by keeping their heads down.  It just sucks that those who legitimately care about the game get left in the dark because a bunch of bad apples.

[Baker. 1484]

On 2/16/2018 at 9:13 AM, RaptorM60 said:

It's tough to know that your everyday dev work is already frustrating at times, and then you read shit about it on the internet. That doesn't help you focus on your work.

The same boiling water that softens the carrot also hardens the egg. 

Work twice as hard, produce the game we have all been waiting for and show us all how wrong we are. Shove it right in our stupid faces. 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

I honestly do not know why software developers put anything out on early access.  I have played some really good games that just got shit on right before release, and their sales went to shit.  I have also watched games burn and churn in EA until they were abandoned.  I have never supported any game via Kickstarter, but I have friends who have and been burned...repeatedly.  Look at the track record of the company that is building a game and just leave them alone.  BI is known for producing amazing games and support those games for years.  DayZ will be no different.

After watching what has happened to DayZ and many other games, I firmly believe EA should only be used once a game hits or is about to  hit BETA, and not sooner.  Some would argue that fans can often spur the best suggestions on how a game should progress early on when decisions on tech and such are being made.  Those cases are extremely rare and the risks far outweigh any gains.  The laws of unintended consequences become more "in play" because you try to please a few loud voices.  Fans do not understand the development cycle....AT ALL.  Just read the comments on here or reddit and it becomes painfully obvious.  Developers should stick to their plan and hype their game when it it's about to hit Beta and put it on EA. That's my .02 anyway.

[pilgrim* 3514]

44 minutes ago, Baker. said:

The same boiling water that softens the carrot also hardens the egg.

ah .. Zen !

.. er .. what game are we waiting for ?

[Baker. 1484]

1 hour ago, pilgrim* said:

ah .. Zen !

.. er .. what game are we waiting for ?

Buddha Simulator 2018

 

[Baker. 1484]

1 hour ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

I honestly do not know why software developers put anything out on early access.  I have played some really good games that just got shit on right before release, and their sales went to shit.  I have also watched games burn and churn in EA until they were abandoned.  I have never supported any game via Kickstarter, but I have friends who have and been burned...repeatedly.  Look at the track record of the company that is building a game and just leave them alone.  BI is known for producing amazing games and support those games for years.  DayZ will be no different.

After watching what has happened to DayZ and many other games, I firmly believe EA should only be used once a game hits or is about to  hit BETA, and not sooner.  Some would argue that fans can often spur the best suggestions on how a game should progress early on when decisions on tech and such are being made.  Those cases are extremely rare and the risks far outweigh any gains.  The laws of unintended consequences become more "in play" because you try to please a few loud voices.  Fans do not understand the development cycle....AT ALL.  Just read the comments on here or reddit and it becomes painfully obvious.  Developers should stick to their plan and hype their game when it it's about to hit Beta and put it on EA. That's my .02 anyway.

You forget the early access was to get in on the ground floor before all the copycats came out and saturated the market. "Quick cash in , then develop as planned", which mind you is far better than "quick cash in and bail"

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

 

July; July 2017 since I've played.

 

After the gamescom demo I think a lot of us expected Beta before 2018, myself included. I sorely miss playing DayZ and I want every reason to support BI but - it's - been - sooooo - long. I have faith it will be done there's just no indication of when that will be. I really hope Beta is *sooner, rather than "later", and I hope all the expectations for development from the devs come true.

 

[gorvi 189]

4 hours ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

I honestly do not know why software developers put anything out on early access.  I have played some really good games that just got shit on right before release, and their sales went to shit.  I have also watched games burn and churn in EA until they were abandoned.  I have never supported any game via Kickstarter, but I have friends who have and been burned...repeatedly.  Look at the track record of the company that is building a game and just leave them alone.  BI is known for producing amazing games and support those games for years.  DayZ will be no different.

After watching what has happened to DayZ and many other games, I firmly believe EA should only be used once a game hits or is about to  hit BETA, and not sooner.  Some would argue that fans can often spur the best suggestions on how a game should progress early on when decisions on tech and such are being made.  Those cases are extremely rare and the risks far outweigh any gains.  The laws of unintended consequences become more "in play" because you try to please a few loud voices.  Fans do not understand the development cycle....AT ALL.  Just read the comments on here or reddit and it becomes painfully obvious.  Developers should stick to their plan and hype their game when it it's about to hit Beta and put it on EA. That's my .02 anyway.

This sounds good on paper, but its not the case.

 

Alpha: Feature planning and building the tech which supports those features

Beta: Refining those features into polished gameplay.

 

Skipping alpha phases for early access not only decreases feedback, but also very valuable data which is actively collected to help better build those fledgling systems.

I understand it can be frustrating, but if these are not processes you wish to be a part of it would probably be best to avoid purchasing any early access titles until they are at a point you will enjoy.

[Baker. 1484]

2 hours ago, gorvi said:

Alpha: Feature planning and building the tech which supports those features

Beta: Refining those features into polished gameplay.

 

Hot damn its been a while since I've seen an alpha screamer post. In the old days these were every second reply to criticism.  

[gorvi 189]

3 hours ago, Baker. said:

Hot damn its been a while since I've seen an alpha screamer post. In the old days these were every second reply to criticism.  

Assuming you aren't taking alpha out of context.  There are a lot of times where criticisms completely warranted the response of alpha as it was most users first look at development from the ground floor.  Gradually it has become somewhat of a derogatory term in the eyes of casual users.  There is no real word that can sate peoples displeasure when it comes to the early development grind.  Constant balancing of gameplay when major systems are still changing is a huge undertaking which most developers dont even bother attempting. 

DayZ had some balance, but ultimately was restricted by legacy engine features.  This confused fans as some problems would be fixed while others went months, if not years to be addressed.  The funny thing is; dev's explained this.  Supporters explained this.  Eventually after each new user would ask the same question, alpha became the only response most fans would be willing to give.

[pilgrim* 3514]

12 hours ago, Baker. said:

Buddha Simulator 2018

The same boiling water that softens the carrot also hardens the egg.

 

[Baker. 1484]

11 hours ago, gorvi said:

Assuming you aren't taking alpha out of context. 

No man. I call you guys "alpha screamers". Anytime anyone said anything that wasn't bootlicking the devs or the development process or the game you guys would jump in screaming  "ALPHAR!!!! ITS ALPHAR!!!!"  OR verbatim   

"Alpha: Feature planning and building the tech which supports those features

Beta: Refining those features into polished gameplay.!!!!!!"

and 80% of the forums used to be criticism followed by alpha screaming. 

C+AS=DF

Its why i left to be honest. There was some fair debate in the middle but for the most part is was just two different ends of the rage spectrum both equally stupid.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Baker.

[Baker. 1484]

8 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

The same boiling water that softens the carrot also hardens the egg.

 

Ah..Zen

[gorvi 189]

3 hours ago, Baker. said:

Its why i left to be honest.

Maybe its time you took a break again.  Your demeanor over the last couple posts hasn't been in the best of spirits.  You are taking what I said out of context and turning it into a personal attack while also offering nothing but anecdotal and false evidence behind the justification of your actions.

[Baker. 1484]

1 hour ago, gorvi said:

Maybe its time you took a break again.

I was here before you and ill be here after.

1 hour ago, gorvi said:

 Your demeanor over the last couple posts hasn't been in the best of spirits.

I disagree

 

good day sir

Edited February 18, 2018 by Baker.

[RaptorM60 392]

On 2/17/2018 at 8:20 PM, THEGordonFreeman said:

After watching what has happened to DayZ and many other games, I firmly believe EA should only be used once a game hits or is about to  hit BETA, and not sooner.

I wouldn't say it has to be BETA necessarily, or what usually gets defined as BETA, but the point you made is one of the important lessons Bohemia Interactive has learned with DayZ: it's making sure we don't release a game too early in Steam Early Access. That's how our Bohemia Incubator initiative started (because the super early feedback is still important, but perhaps more effective with a very small community). https://incubator.bistudio.com/

But it's easy to say that now, with the 5th year of DayZ's Early Access in progress. I know our CEO Marek Španěl is often thinking about that decision (to release DayZ super early AND work on the technology along with the game) - at the end of the day though, who knows what would happen if a different scenario played itself out instead. At least now, we know it helped us advance in terms of technology, which will make DayZ a better game (and a better platform) moving forward.

[Gobbokirk 546]

3 minutes ago, RaptorM60 said:

I wouldn't say it has to be BETA necessarily, or what usually gets defined as BETA, but the point you made is one of the important lessons Bohemia Interactive has learned with DayZ: it's making sure we don't release a game too early in Steam Early Access. That's how our Bohemia Incubator initiative started (because the super early feedback is still important, but perhaps more effective with a very small community). https://incubator.bistudio.com/

But it's easy to say that now, with the 5th year of DayZ's Early Access in progress. I know our CEO Marek Španěl is often thinking about that decision (to release DayZ super early AND work on the technology along with the game) - at the end of the day though, who knows what would happen if a different scenario played itself out instead. At least now, we know it helped us advance in terms of technology, which will make DayZ a better game (and a better platform) moving forward.

Captain Hindsight will always seem clever, but in the end all that matters for most, or at least me, is a good final product.

[OrLoK 16186]

We have to remember people like to take the written word as gospel rather than keeping to the spirit of the interpretation, be it terms like Alpha or Beta to Forum rules, to use a few local examples.

[HaseDesTodes 315]

28 minutes ago, RaptorM60 said:

I wouldn't say it has to be BETA necessarily, or what usually gets defined as BETA, but the point you made is one of the important lessons Bohemia Interactive has learned with DayZ: it's making sure we don't release a game too early in Steam Early Access. That's how our Bohemia Incubator initiative started (because the super early feedback is still important, but perhaps more effective with a very small community). https://incubator.bistudio.com/

 

but on the other hand, a project with such a big name as DayZ, would have had a hard time nevertheless.

i'm sure it would have been very popular, and -with the development speed as it was- previously hyped folks would have gotten as toxic as they were.

so whatever you could have done, judging from the present time, you only had bad choices, so you picked one (probably the best one), and now it's pointless to bemoan what could have been.

What matters now, is how good the Enfusion engine will become (or already is), because that will not only influence the DayZ game, but also most near-future projects of BIS. So who cares if the game takes a bit longer now. Just do your best, and if necessary, take your time.