My plea regarding modding and the release of server files

[billyangstadt 272]

The release of the files to modders will inevitably turn this game into yet ANOTHER casual looter shooter. DayZ has set the standard in terms of survival, and harsh environments. The release of server files will lead to full militarized servers, 24/7 day, no weather, and SVD's spawning in supermarkets.

For those that are going to say, "if the survival community is so strong, then there will be plenty of population in those servers. This is what the community wants", I don't want to get started on that topic. This game has incredible survival mechanics, and its going to break my heart to see it crapped on when modders remove all harsh elements in lieu of fast paced gameplay for Twitch streamers.

Yes, modders would potentially introduce some great scripts or items toward survival, but the mass majority, as history has shown, will introduce modern guns and vehicles which have no place in DayZ. (Remember how ridiculous the Lamborghini Aventadors looked in Cherno?)

Although I'm sure that I'm about to be roasted, I'd kindly ask the devs to reconsider their position on releasing server files. I'd rather play the game with the current population, in it's current state, than to watch it get stepped on.

 

For those who will presumably tell me "Go play another game", I will say the same to you. DayZ is unique, the game you want is a dime a dozen.

[Guy Smiley 534]

Well the sad truth is, it's going to happen whether you like it or not.  While the small group of us will play on dead servers that will test our survival skills, the rest will be CoD'ing it up on, as you put, 24/7day servers, starting gear and vehicles galore.  Who cares, they will get bored of it and move on to the next big twitch game.

[DannyDog 532]

And we already have those pvp tent servers too so people that want to solely play deathmatch already can. Though i do somewhat agree that i wish dayz stayed as a true hardcore survival and didn't let anyone deviate from it. But that's just me.

[Sqeezorz 839]

there is also a good side of the medallion. it will tend to steer the players in 2 streets

(1). The one the light Pvp with lots of loot in every corner.

(2) The others are looking for a challenge in a game (they are not just PVE or RP .. there are also PvPler who are looking for that).

Chaff and separating wheat makes sense.

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

Even if 99% of the post-modding playerbase was playing on "easy TDM mod servers," modding would still be a positive thing for DayZ if more people were playing the game and for longer, but in reality that's not the only kind of mods you're going to see.

The gamer audience is vast, and the true DayZ experience only appeals to a niche audience (in my opinion). Having mods vastly expands the appeal of the game for people who either wouldn't otherwise play the game or would try it and leave soon after. Just look back at ARMA 2/3 and see what mods are doing to a mil-sim. Remember Altis Life, remember Battlegrounds, remember DayZ.

Mods also increase the longevity of the game even for people who love the base game on its own, because everybody gets bored of their favorite game eventually (or begins to see the flaws or just grows tired of encountering them) and mods can add variety to keep your gameplay fresh and more interesting. I know mods keep me coming back to games I wouldn't otherwise play anymore, like Skyrim, Fallout or (and I hate to admit this) Stalker.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[Girth Brooks 570]

Most mods in Arma 3 are extremely janky. Every mod I've ever played you float, you drive a car across the bridge and it blows up or you sneeze next to a house and it blows up. I spent more time in Altis life floating around unable to move instead of actually playing the mod. 

I have a feeling the mods need to be executed much better to avoid all the annoying stuff. It's cool to make a new game type but if it's constantly breaking it's not fun. 

If the tools are very robust and it gets rid of all the annoying stuff I'll be interested.

 

[billyangstadt 272]

8 hours ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

Even if 99% of the post-modding playerbase was playing on "easy TDM mod servers," modding would still be a positive thing for DayZ if more people were playing the game and for longer, but in reality that's not the only kind of mods you're going to see.

The gamer audience is vast, and the true DayZ experience only appeals to a niche audience (in my opinion). Having mods vastly expands the appeal of the game for people who either wouldn't otherwise play the game or would try it and leave soon after. Just look back at ARMA 2/3 and see what mods are doing to a mil-sim. Remember Altis Life, remember Battlegrounds, remember DayZ.

Mods also increase the longevity of the game even for people who love the base game on its own, because everybody gets bored of their favorite game eventually (or begins to see the flaws or just grows tired of encountering them) and mods can add variety to keep your gameplay fresh and more interesting. I know mods keep me coming back to games I wouldn't otherwise play anymore, like Skyrim, Fallout or (and I hate to admit this) Stalker.

Why wouldn't the devs just release an engine, and thats it?

Why spend all of this time/effort/money to make a game that modders will just chop up anyway?

If the true DayZ experience doesn't appeal to a player, then don't play that game. It's disheartening seeing great games get chopped up at the expense of fast paced gameplay and ease.

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

59 minutes ago, billyangstadt said:

Why wouldn't the devs just release an engine, and thats it?

Why spend all of this time/effort/money to make a game that modders will just chop up anyway?

If the true DayZ experience doesn't appeal to a player, then don't play that game. It's disheartening seeing great games get chopped up at the expense of fast paced gameplay and ease.

It sounds like you're more against modding in general than just modding for DayZ.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[Guy Smiley 534]

There's a huge difference between modding a game that adds to the main core of it than modding a game that detracts from the core of it.  If you look back at the mods for DayZ mod, the majority of them detracted from what the core gameplay was about and turned it into a generic run of the mill shooter.

[philbur 476]

The hope would be that a dedicated "Launcher" gets released either by BI or maybe one of the clever modders out there and that would avoid a lot of the "Jankiness".

As a matter of fact I really liked the Steam Workshop solution to Skyrim in so far as its' ability to vastly streamline the installation and "activation" of the add-ons you prefer. (Not necessarily for "Mods" though)

I know it is not the leanest of interfaces...but having your game AND all the mods/add-ons consistently up to date is a huge bonus.

Since I no longer play Skyrim I have not been too active in the Workshop for Arma 3 stuff since I grew tired of Altis etc. but Dayz SA should fit right in to this kind of thing.

Personally, I hope server owners just keep faithful to their individual Server Setting preferences, as these will play such a large factor towards keeping the core gameplay in perspective.

Things that can be selected as server settings like 1PP/3PP, Day/Night, Loot Tables, Weather, Infected Population, Animal Pop, Etc. all contribute to how the experience works (or doesn't ) for us. I just can't imagine that the Mods that will spring up will dramatically pull away those players that came to the SA originally. I bet there are going to be a couple epic mods that will blow us all away....but I bet the "hardcore" original 1.0 version will endure.

 

[-Gews- 7443]

1 hour ago, Guy Smiley said:

There's a huge difference between modding a game that adds to the main core of it than modding a game that detracts from the core of it.  If you look back at the mods for DayZ mod, the majority of them detracted from what the core gameplay was about and turned it into a generic run of the mill shooter.

And salty ARMA players will tell you that the DayZ mod detracted from what the core gameplay was all about. 

[klesh 2423]

5 hours ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

It sounds like you're more against modding in general than just modding for DayZ.

 

Didn't we just have this discussion?  There is a HUGE difference between modding any ol game and modding a multiplayer game with a specific experience in mind that is dependent on the playing population sticking together.

[billyangstadt 272]

6 hours ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

It sounds like you're more against modding in general than just modding for DayZ.

Not at all, but the modding that this game will face will eliminate the core survival mechanics, and turn it into a casual shooter. No more fishing, fires, farming, etc.

[chambersenator 106]

On 10/18/2017 at 8:14 PM, billyangstadt said:

The release of the files to modders will inevitably turn this game into yet ANOTHER casual looter shooter.

I really don't think you need to be so worried. Yes, mods will be made that will go against everything you hold dear about DayZ. They will be very popular, filled with people who are looking for, and getting, the exact opposite of what you value and love about DayZ. I'm not looking forward to seeing that stuff either, as we probably value many of the same things in regards to DayZ. However, I see no point in blocking everyone from modding DayZ in order to somehow keep DayZ 'pure.' In fact, I welcome them to come and create whatever abominable, horrible mods they can come up with. Bring on the 24/7 day mods, NVGs and thermal optics for all, and the 'pick your spawn point' options, and spawn everybody with an RPG, M249, and a tank. Let them bring over all the ArmA 2 and 3 assets they want, and bring over the maps and converted scripts, too. They'd all be 3rd person servers too, of course. I'm sure if they could, they'd invent the concept of 4th person servers just because 3rd person is just too limiting. 

Why do I want this? I'm certainly not going to be one of the people playing on those servers. I'll be having fun on the servers that are populated by people who want the same things out of DayZ that I do. The hardcore survival, the 1st person only, the servers that push for realism and make the game harder because they want the challenge, with the full spectrum of KoS, to PvP, to RP, whatever the situation calls for. The servers that are whitelisted, well-admined servers to keep out the riff-raff, scripters, and griefers. Servers that require you to put on your big-boy pants, make a torch, and deal with finding a single can of food on a moonless night while you are starving and freezing to death.

And with mods available, I can get even more of that kinds stuff I dig. And don't forget, we can also benefit from the work put into all of those other mods, too. All that porting, converting, and scripting means more stuff to use for mods targeted to players who want to stay close to vanilla DayZ's intent, but wouldn't mind some extra stuff too.

That's where I'll be, having the time of my life. Seriously, why worry? If a server is running mods you don't like, and would never go there, who cares if it's empty or full? Who cares if there are 5 or even 10 times as many of those servers than the ones you like? How many servers do you really need? With the people that are waiting for beta return, do you seriously think NONE of them will want to play on servers that value the same things you do?

Modding is how DayZ was created. It's going to be OK. You'll see.  


 

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

6 hours ago, klesh said:

Didn't we just have this discussion?  There is a HUGE difference between modding any ol game and modding a multiplayer game with a specific experience in mind that is dependent on the playing population sticking together.

It slipped my mind but you are right, we've had this (exact?) discussion in another thread.

I wasn't personally planning on going over it again in any case though, but now I'm debating on a merge.
(I'm "debating" with myself about whether I should merge this with the other thread, which has a different main topic. Probably not.)

Edited October 20, 2017 by Dancing.Russian.Man
Clarification

[pilgrim* 3514]

5 minutes ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

It slipped my mind but you are right, we've had this (exact?) discussion in another thread.

I wasn't personally planning on going over it again in any case though, but now I'm debating on a merge.

You mean merge then debate it or debate about merging it ?  - As its about modding shouldn't everyone have the right to start their own different version of the thread and put in comments they like and dump comments they don't like and leave the original thread with just some vanilla thread comments on it,  called the "old school vanilla thread. Then we could have 20 or 50 threads threads on the same thing and everyone could argue about how different each thread was and how cr@p most of them were except the one we were on. And put some of the same comments in different threads and different comments in the same thread, and see which one got popular and which one just faded away only had a few fans, and which one was full of loonies and which one was  boring. ?? That's what DayZ is for isn't it, modders ?
  (hmm?)

[klesh 2423]

On 10/20/2017 at 3:19 AM, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

*snip*

 

 

We're all getting old and forgetful waiting for beta.  ;)

[noreaster 41]

On 10/19/2017 at 5:50 AM, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

Even if 99% of the post-modding playerbase was playing on "easy TDM mod servers," modding would still be a positive thing for DayZ if more people were playing the game and for longer, but in reality that's not the only kind of mods you're going to see.

The gamer audience is vast, and the true DayZ experience only appeals to a niche audience (in my opinion). Having mods vastly expands the appeal of the game for people who either wouldn't otherwise play the game or would try it and leave soon after. Just look back at ARMA 2/3 and see what mods are doing to a mil-sim. Remember Altis Life, remember Battlegrounds, remember DayZ.

Mods also increase the longevity of the game even for people who love the base game on its own, because everybody gets bored of their favorite game eventually (or begins to see the flaws or just grows tired of encountering them) and mods can add variety to keep your gameplay fresh and more interesting. I know mods keep me coming back to games I wouldn't otherwise play anymore, like Skyrim, Fallout or (and I hate to admit this) Stalker.

History has proven over and over again that modding is almost exclusively tied to making things easier, adding in fun things that destroy immersion etc... Pretty much all the things which are antithesis to the DayZ mission statement.

 

There is a massive hoard of ultra casual gamers out there who blindly follow around their favorite streamers and play whatever game they tell them to. These people don't care about your game, it's long term viability, the cultural origins of it and it's original player base. They come in, in legions and they flood social media, forums, review sites and they complain about this or that and they want things easier and they want Apache helicopters and .50 cal's and one streamer can say one thing and suddenly you have 50,000 people begging for $1,000,000 starting cash, max vehicles and high power snipers spawning in outhouses.

 

Over time, historically, this ultra casual approach to gaming ALWAYS consumes the direction of the game and I absolutely expect without any doubt whatsoever that the official servers will migrate to pander to that player base because, like I said, they are legion and there is money to be made there and let's face it. This is all about making money.

 

Skyrim and Fallout are single player games. The fact they are mod capable doesn't apply as it does to DayZ.  Stalker did have multiplay capability But it is an incredibly simple shooter with no comparison to the MMO nature and level of difficulty DayZ has and so I don't think that can be compared in any way either.

[sneakydude 480]

On 10/19/2017 at 8:51 AM, Girth Brooks said:

Most mods in Arma 3 are extremely janky. Every mod I've ever played you float, you drive a car across the bridge and it blows up or you sneeze next to a house and it blows up. I spent more time in Altis life floating around unable to move instead of actually playing the mod. 

I have a feeling the mods need to be executed much better to avoid all the annoying stuff. It's cool to make a new game type but if it's constantly breaking it's not fun. 

If the tools are very robust and it gets rid of all the annoying stuff I'll be interested.

 

most problems are with arma, updates and lack of. good modders are quiting.

[philbur 476]

On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎19 at 8:51 AM, Girth Brooks said:

Most mods in Arma 3 are extremely janky. Every mod I've ever played you float, you drive a car across the bridge and it blows up or you sneeze next to a house and it blows up. I spent more time in Altis life floating around unable to move instead of actually playing the mod. 

I have a feeling the mods need to be executed much better to avoid all the annoying stuff. It's cool to make a new game type but if it's constantly breaking it's not fun. 

If the tools are very robust and it gets rid of all the annoying stuff I'll be interested.

 

I agree here...but that's why I would be immensely disappointed if the core game was not embedded into the Steam Workshop the way other highly Modded (and open to a lot of Add-Ons) games are.

IS that not the main reason to have such a mechanism? Your game will be constantly updated for each of the additions and version conflicts will be minimized.

Lets see what happens, but I am SURE there will a common sense system that keeps these things in order.

Edited October 22, 2017 by philbur

[soulfirez 901]

Meh i just love the whole people fighting against mods ( ya know when we are playing a game that was a mod) The prophets of doom and gloom , just love all the history shows mods make games easier(negating the many many mods that make it harder , the hardcore element is out there its just more niche . People in the majority tend to take the path of least resistance its just a sad fact of life .. Where were all these hardcore nuts when i ran my own server ( heavily modded to make it much harder than regular DayZ?

I never cared much i was a modder ( i say was as i havent done anything worth a pinch of shit in nearly 2 years lol ) and i enjoyed a hard experience as i found my favorite time in DayZ was like may/junish of 2012 when they made Z's ( by accident i think or maybe not) faster than people and much much tougher . It actually for a short time had people grouping up but also had them complaing there asses of to have zeds tonned down. ( which they did but fuck even amped up zeds were easy to handle but people dont want hard ..)

Edit (Basicly yes there will be mods that make the game easier add more loot etc but there will also be the ones that make it harder/deeper also, maybe play those if there your style or stick to vanilla .)

Edited October 24, 2017 by soulfirez

[klesh 2423]

Sure there will be both styles of modding the game, easymode and hardcore modes.  You yourself admit the masses will move to what is easier.  Be prepared to be playing your hardcore mod of the game by yourself, I guess? Back in the DayZ mod's glory days, I could be found playing vanilla.

Were mods not available for Standalone, everyone would be playing on the same version of the game with more-full servers, which I submit would still be more populated even after the battle royale deathmatchers decide its too much for them and leave.

At the very least, they should hold back the modding tools for 6 months or something after release of the final product.  People currently are cooking up all these ideas of what they want to change with never having experienced the actual final game.  We dont know what the temperature aspects will be like, what the loot will be set to, what diseases, basebuilding and electricity will bring, etc.

 

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

35 minutes ago, klesh said:

Sure there will be both styles of modding the game, easymode and hardcore modes.  You yourself admit the masses will move to what is easier.  Be prepared to be playing your hardcore mod of the game by yourself, I guess? Back in the DayZ mod's glory days, I could be found playing vanilla.

Were mods not available for Standalone, everyone would be playing on the same version of the game with more-full servers, which I submit would still be more populated even after the battle royale deathmatchers decide its too much for them and leave.

At the very least, they should hold back the modding tools for 6 months or something after release of the final product.  People currently are cooking up all these ideas of what they want to change with never having experienced the actual final game.  We dont know what the temperature aspects will be like, what the loot will be set to, what diseases, basebuilding and electricity will bring, etc.

I agree , look at what some players did with the game files already , BI is having to wipe some WIP guns from .62 as it is.

[sneakydude 480]

6 hours ago, green_mtn_grandbob said:

I agree , look at what some players did with the game files already , BI is having to wipe some WIP guns from .62 as it is.

It is EA, the files where open, and no real system in place to challenge the changed files. It was bound to happen, and happens with other games too. In defense of BI, it was out of their control until the new system was in place. The only way to fix those problems was to delete all game files until the new system was in place. Exploits happen in all games.

Modding has nothing to do with Exploiting, so please explain your stance or where you where going with this?

Thanks