Map expansion ?

[Yorny 0]

Hi y'all, I was wondering if after version 1.0, when the game is nearly done, if it was possible that the map would get bigger. Doubling the size of the map from 220 sq/km to maybe like 440 sq/km.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Doubt the map's gonna get much bigger, if at all.  They're more likely to do another map, but even that's a slim chance.

[tenmbits 2]

Not planned before 1.0

[Noctoras 409]

Once you get 100 people on a map, you can think about expanding. Right now? No point ... I mean, when are you supposed to ever meet a fellow survivor then. more zombies, more illnesses, more medication, more of a skill system, more hunger, less ammo, less guns, less ready made food ... chernarus can still be a lot of a challenge, as soon as the devs cut down on items.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

It can't be done. Proof HERE.

[[TAW] GunRunner 53]

I asked this same question in a Q&A a while back. Official response from @eugenharton

Not saying plans haven't changed, because everybody changes there mind and approach at some point. But it does not look like it is going to be happening. The map additions that they often refer to regard adding towns, cities, and attractions to the existing land area such as the upcoming Tisy Military Base.

Edited April 2, 2016 by GunRunner

[r8gato 46]

I'm more interested to see how Senchi/environment team plan to enclose the map. I would eventually like to see the void to the North and West be blocked with at least an impassable mountain range (shear cliffs etc). The empty tundra that currently exists makes me sad and breaks my immersion. Of course it's not a big deal, so, this is all way past version 1.0

[Salty seadog 125]

I would definitely pay for a DLC with a new map (rather play on maps a proper dev studio have made than playing on player created maps). Ive never really been a fan of Cherno, and its been the same map since arma 2/ arma 3.

If by some Christmas miracle they decided to polish up taviana with new textures/ updated buildings, that would be awesome. Otherwise id love to see a huge map that was half high up on a completely snowy mountain plateau/ range with some abandoned missile silos/towns and bunkers, and the other half down in the hills/ grasslands.

[idie 57]

Hi GuyZ,

do not watch this video if you have heart issues ......

I almost died watching it,

everyman's dream...

DayZ will clearly be the best game ever with a map like this... Vehicle will be useful... Choppers will be amazing...

High mountains with snow, uncrossable rivers... (you could try but you will probably die) lot of predators, you've got to hunt to survive and you only encounter others human being from time to time, so rare that you don't shot them and just want to talk to them to get help !

A real survival game :P

Ahahah ! I'm dreaming I know, but not as much as the author of this video lol...

I hope modders will practise magic and create amazing maps ;)

I know it is clearly impossible to have a single server running a map like this, but it would be so cool if we had multiple servers hosting the map as a cluster, so when you go from one map to another, you change server with a loading screen, and pooof you are on the next part of the map :D

 

Edited April 10, 2016 by idie

[exwoll 255]

On 4/1/2016 at 0:22 AM, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

It can't be done. Proof HERE.

You know how to read right? lol

So, devs confirmed that an expansion would be possible to create, but that it would be a lot of work. At the same time they added that they're not willing to work on it for X reason (probably they already have a lot of work with the current map lol).

ps. i think ill create another thread with all of the ideas so far in this topic.

Edited March 13, 2017 by exwoll

[exwoll 255]

There has been a lot of talk about the topic of expanding the Chernarus to the full country map some of us have seen in the game (shcool and radar tower, see Pic. 1). 

Most of the people believe that having such a big map would be impossible and just a futile task. But there are people that think otherwise, and this thread would be a nice place to gather the few of the last ones! :).

I'll try to organize here the ideas and concepts that I encounter, so new people with the same Idea can have a quicker snapshot of the whole thing, and could contribute to it faster and more efficiently.

 

Note: I will update this post with all the ideas and discussion that result further. 

 

1. The Vision

Many of you think that the current map is the whole Chernarus. But actually we're playing in a small region of the country, called South Zagoria (correct me if I'm wrong), which capital is Chernogorsk. 

The complete Chernarus has a total of 6 big cities :

• Chernogorsk
• Miroslavl
• Belozersk
• Kirovograd
• Primorks
• Novigrad (capital)

In a map that is approx. 7-8 times the size of the current map. 

Actually a scaled map of the country can be found in schools and in tisy radar tower in-game:

Pic. 1 Chernarus Map found in-game

 

The idea behind this thread is to end up having (as the best outcome possible) this whole map to play. Be it as a whole, or as separate maps that one could access through a "loading" screen. 

 

2. Feasibility

 

2.1. Developers Opinion

 

We had some glimpses into the opinion of the developers regarding this issue, which is that:

It's possible to do, but it would need a tremendous amount of work and the implementations of solutions for the limits the current map/system presents

and that they will not take the  job on themselves. 

 

Pic. 2 Rocket's post in reddit

 

Pic. 3 Eugen's reply to the possibilities that the new renderer offers towards the expansion of the map

 

2.2. Arma 3 Experience

 

Everyone thought that a map of such a massive size would be impossible to do, but then the Arma 3 modding community introduced the Australia map (1600 km2) which proved that it can be done!

Australia map is 8 times bigger than  our current map, so it's around the size of the complete Chernarus map and it shows that what we dream here is possible!

Detailed link:http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=28882

 

Pic.4  Arma 3 Australia map (and yes, they managed to create rivers :D

 

 

2.3. Previous concepts

The idea of expanding the map came up through the years a couple of times, but only in words, until in 2015 a youtuber named Game in Theory made a video where he explained the concept as he saw it, and he not only talked about it, but he actually worked on a concept map that engulfed about half of the original complete map

Pic 5. Size of the GIT concept map.

Pic. 6 GIT concept of the extended Chernarus map.

GIT even provided a high resolution map, that you can download here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8xM41lgRhleRGx5SDh3S3pfMzg/view?usp=sharing&pageId=107346643066222125225

The original video:

 

Now, his concept came before the Australia map was launched for Arma 3. So he didn't had an example of the scale that can be achieved with Bohemia map creation tools. He didn't commented anymore on the issue, so I don't know if he revised his concept after the A3 map came to life. 

 

3. Idea Development

3.1. The limitations

A map of this size would certainly offer difficulties, I will list here the ones I've seen so far:

• The size itself - It would require a huge effort to design and build the map.
• Server performance - The would certainly be a good amount of load in any server that would try to manage such a map with millions of new spawn points, persistence saving, etc.
• Positioning - "The map is broken up into parts on two scales, one is used by terrain (how far between verts for the terrain points). The other one is used for the generation of materials and how the different land classes overlap. The hard part is not adjusting the scale, so much as reconciling the two values, since they have an interdependent relationship and only specific combinations can be used".
• Reworking of the current data - "It would require everything to be reworked. The current data would have to be artificially inflated somehow, repackaged, redeveloped" 
• Server load - A 4x larger map also needs more slots, more animals, more infected, all this needs immensely more power from the server. 

 

3.2. Possible Solutions

3.2.1 The size itself 

Increase the amount of people working in the map. Create a dedicated team for the task and use volunteers to accelerate the process. Crowdfunding can help here to support the dedicated team (programmers, designers, and world creators)

3.2.2 Server performance

 At the current point it would be certainly very difficult to make a map of this size to work in-game, but we don't know yet how well devs gonna improve server performance for the release of the game. But in case that the whole map would become impossible to manage as a whole, there's an option to separate it in smaller regions and have different servers to manage each chunk, acting like public servers where you can spawn from 0, or run from another server, you would have to pass though a loading screen every time you cross a border.

A reddit user Dr_akula13 and @Asmondian noted that the implementation of zones could end up breaking the community, and that to somehow avoid that and also the break of immersion while going from one zone to another, people who have the map (or DLC) could have to pass through a checkpoint (pic 7), that would work as an artificial barrier placed by the government to stop the infection.

pic 8. Map section checkpoint to control DLC players.

Although this would have some issues that should be discussed, like for example what would happen in areas where there is no way of controlling players? or what to do with campers waiting for players that cross through the checkpoint to kill them?. Because if the access is open, this problem would be a lot smaller since less people will take the time to patrol the whole map border.

3.2.3 Positioning  

 

3.2.3 Reworking of the current data

Same as with the size case. But here a brainstorm could come up with some workarounds to avoid redoing existing things.

 

3.2. Possible plan to work this thing out

I came up with a roadmap for the development of this idea:

1. Form a team with likeminded people that have the same desire as you for this to happen, so you're not the only one taking the next steps alone
2. Get in contact with a couple of people that had worked in map creation (modders or devs themselves) and evaluate what are the barriers that we're having right now to make this possible, and how much time it would take to come up with something.
3. Create a crowdfunding campaign (kickstarter,etc) to collect some $ to sustain the project for the time of it happening (because if it takes a lot of time, it would be difficult to have everyone working on it for free). For example if everyone of the people that liked the GIT video (462 currently) donated at least 10$, that would be almost 5k$ that would add some incentive to the work. I actually believe that this number can greatly increase once the team evaluates everything and makes a good plan to post on kickstarter.
4. Create a platform where to centralize all the work (forum, discord, fb group, etc).
5. Make a brainstorm on the possible solutions for the points you get in (2).
6. List all the features that have to be added and worked on besides (5)
7. Create a roadmap/chronogram of everythying and separate the tasks between programming, map design, world building.
8. Separate those tasks among the team and see what can be accelerated with more people that could contribute with only a limited amount of time and will not need a great knowledge on things (for example world building or design).
9. Call for volunteers that would like to help with (8)
10. Once there's a real scale version of the map, start testing the solutions that the team came up with in (5).
11. Once that theres a solution for (5), add the rest of things, and test again.
12. Release the map, or sell it as a mod, or to bohemia itself for a DLC.

 

So, I believe it's a good starting point :) 

What are your thoughts? 

 

Edit history:

13.3.17 - Added Dr_Akula13 and Asmondian idea about the checkpoints. 

16.3.17 - Added Sqeezorz note about possible server load issues 

Edited March 16, 2017 by exwoll

[Asmondian 372]

Amazing post and presentation dude.

Having said that, here is my feedback:

First of all, I think that a map expansion is definitely in the mind of the devs and players. We would need a bigger place when the base system is finally implemented. Finding people should be an exception in game to maximize the interaction when you finally do, making every encounter unique and not just random pvp and full gear guys everywhere.

It´s true that tons of people think we play on the full Chernarus Map, being Cherno its capital. They forget the other major cities and the main one: Novigrad. I don´t think just one server can handle the hole map without performance issues, but a good system of hives between the regions could be a great idea. (Example: if you want to travel from Kamenka to the western city of Miroslavy – I say miroslavy because I don´t know the name of the whole region – and not spawn bambi, you have to delog in some check point or specific place – safe zone – and jump to another server in the same hive). Just a thought. GIT´s idea is also great. They can add the most amount of territory they can in one server without performance decrease.

I think if we have the chance, the community could help expanding and developing the other map regions in some kind of “experimental” branch.

Great post.

[exwoll 255]

2 hours ago, Asmondian said:

Example: if you want to travel from Kamenka to the western city of Miroslavy – I say miroslavy because I don´t know the name of the whole region – and not spawn bambi, you have to delog in some check point or specific place – safe zone – and jump to another server in the same hive). Just a thought. GIT´s idea is also great. They can add the most amount of territory they can in one server without performance decrease.

Just updated the post with the idea of a Redditor that suggested the checkpoints to control people that have access to the map (via DLC or just  in files). Hope he jumps in here and details a little bit more his idea

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by exwoll

[kopo79 426]

It would be nice to have some devs on forum to discuss.

[DannyDog 532]

23 minutes ago, kopo79 said:

It would be nice to have some devs on forum to discuss.

That's true, but we gotta remember with this whole "wish more devs would discuss stuff on forums" is that there aren't that many fluid English speakers on the dev team. (AFAIK)

[FlimFlamm 509]

This unfortunately cannot become a reality at least until after 1.0 by my estimation. The development schedule is already too strained to warrant it. :(

That said, once modding becomes a thing, a larger map will be inevitable. Ideally when 1.0 hits things will be somewhat optimized and ready for more players and bigger maps...

Some people might be worried about the community "splitting" over mods and maps, but in reality the highest quality handful of maps will be highly played, and so instead of one kind of map we will get access to more variety, which surely will include something very large...

We still have to wait and see unfortunately, although It would surely be awesome if and when we get something larger, even if it's not an extended Chernarus.

[Asmondian 372]

4 hours ago, FlimFlamm said:

This unfortunately cannot become a reality at least until after 1.0 by my estimation. The development schedule is already too strained to warrant it. :(

That said, once modding becomes a thing, a larger map will be inevitable. Ideally when 1.0 hits things will be somewhat optimized and ready for more players and bigger maps...

Some people might be worried about the community "splitting" over mods and maps, but in reality the highest quality handful of maps will be highly played, and so instead of one kind of map we will get access to more variety, which surely will include something very large...

We still have to wait and see unfortunately, although It would surely be awesome if and when we get something larger, even if it's not an extended Chernarus.

You are right and that thought applies to all suggestions because if they already estimate they won’t introduce any new item or feature until 1.0, I think no idea (simply or complex) could be implemented until then. But… we can dream and debate some ideas until then. 100% agree with you on modding and its consequences.

 

 

[exwoll 255]

4 hours ago, FlimFlamm said:

This unfortunately cannot become a reality at least until after 1.0 by my estimation. The development schedule is already too strained to warrant it. :(

That said, once modding becomes a thing, a larger map will be inevitable. Ideally when 1.0 hits things will be somewhat optimized and ready for more players and bigger maps...

Some people might be worried about the community "splitting" over mods and maps, but in reality the highest quality handful of maps will be highly played, and so instead of one kind of map we will get access to more variety, which surely will include something very large...

We still have to wait and see unfortunately, although It would surely be awesome if and when we get something larger, even if it's not an extended Chernarus.

almost for sure, they stated themselves that aren't planning to expand the map :/.

So this thread will be focused mainly on discussing the idea with the people that are really interested in it, gathering all the info possible on the project, and (i hope) once the tools are out: have a base of players/modders and info/solutions ready to start working on the map :).

Personally i'm not familiar with modding, but if a modder appears that can guide us, I'll certainly offer some of my free time to help creating the map! 

[BCBasher 2465]

I'd love this either official or modded, I bought the game to play LAN in the end by myself or with my kids as an "I am legend" or "The road" simulator. I have a feeling even with the fact I should have no problem bumping up the AI proportionally to the reduction of possible player network bubbles that with aviation the map will still seem small. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by BCBasher

[Espa 711]

I'm pretty sure that 1.0 of DayZ will not feature the border of untextured expanse that we have now, but will likely create a wall that's high enough as to not exploit.

As for having *more* land, I think there'll be a bit more as shown on the SR where a new Castle was and long metal bridge. . That bodes well for those that think we need to move the map west for Standalone. -- As for additional, I'm almost certain it will be featured in DLCs as either their own map, or Instanced areas that converge on the same server system. 

With this said, my dream list is just more islands to the South and Southwest, the inclusion of Utes, and just more ocean play. (Perhaps make Utes the best militarized zone to create a cross-migration of players)

Edited March 14, 2017 by Espa

[Sqeezorz 839]

I'm not sure on a big expansion of the map is really possible. An image of the CLE shows that this is perhaps the limit. The CLE Subdivides the map into 16 x 16 sections which are then processed. The lowland areas are in the sea and at the edge of the west. These "Empty Zones" might still be used ... the number yields 256. If so, then probably only space for a few islands remains. Another question, which is against a wall to DebugZone, are the aircraft. They could cross the border. Unless the debug zone is contaminated and leads to instant death on ground contact. The idea of an expansion in the sea sounds very interesting.

[Mad Scientist 73]

Great post!! It is the first time I have seen all this information collated in the same place, well done!!!

 

Interested in seeing how this pans out....

[exwoll 255]

6 hours ago, Sqeezorz said:

I'm not sure on a big expansion of the map is really possible. An image of the CLE shows that this is perhaps the limit. The CLE Subdivides the map into 16 x 16 sections which are then processed. The lowland areas are in the sea and at the edge of the west. These "Empty Zones" might still be used ... the number yields 256. If so, then probably only space for a few islands remains. Another question, which is against a wall to DebugZone, are the aircraft. They could cross the border. Unless the debug zone is contaminated and leads to instant death on ground contact. The idea of an expansion in the sea sounds very interesting.

But these CLE zones are interpolated in the existing map. We don't know if they could apply to bigger areas (keeping the same 256 number). 

Last time I saw they had hand drawn zones (with different zones) around the map, something like a heat map. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by exwoll

[Sqeezorz 839]

The bottom picture shows the loot zones, that is, in the CLE, loot can be bound to zones. It can be defined that an SVD is not spawnt at the coast. The upper picture shows the areas that the CLE worked out. Every 5sec. A field, for the whole map 256x5sec. (21min). Sure the CLE can manage more areas, but what is easily forgotten is the massive increase of possible AI. A 4x larger map also needs more slots, more animals, more infected, all this needs immensely more power from the server ... this must probably develop "Intel" the Xeon H8999 @ 12Ghz 16core. Therefore, an expansion on the sea at the first realistic to fill the "empty" CLE fields. This would give a few nice big islands.

[exwoll 255]

10 hours ago, Sqeezorz said:

 A 4x larger map also needs more slots, more animals, more infected, all this needs immensely more power from the server ... this must probably develop "Intel" the Xeon H8999 @ 12Ghz 16core. Therefore, an expansion on the sea at the first realistic to fill the "empty" CLE fields. This would give a few nice big islands.

Added the Server Load to the limitations in my post (which for some reason was added here, but hell with it).

When the devs wrote about the limitations on the map size, they didn´t mentioned the server load as one of the main problems. Doubt they would forget an aspect that would automatically came to mind when talking about more AI and items in the game.

Maybe we could get some dev input here later to clarify this point.