Remember when one bullet killed you?

[Grimey Rick 3417]

DISCLAIMER: Typing this on my phone, potential grammatical genocide to follow.

Does anyone one else recall the glory days of DayZ: Standalone when - generally - one bullet to the chest/back was death? Every now and then you'd get shot in the arm or leg, but for the most part, as soon as you heard a bullet ring out out was quickly followed by, "You are dead."

Me and the wife were talking about this yesterday, and it got me taking a walk down Memory Lane. All we do is seek out other players with which to engage in some PVP these days. What sparked the conversation to begin with was how easy PVP has become over the past year and a half; the thrill of exposing yourself whilst changing positions, of pushing on your opponent, of taking fire from an unknown assailant...it all feels so...empty lately.

If I'm looting an area and begin to take fire, I don't panic anymore. I know that the odds are that - even if said assassin manages to hit me - I'm more than likely not going to die. I can just...run away. Once I get enough distance I can heal myself, and then choose whether or not to re-engage.

In the past, the Mosin would kill you in one shot. Period. Even if you were healthy with military gear equipped, a shot to the chest was death. The M4A1 would normally kill in one shot to the chest, and always two.

It felt so much more realistic and added a lot more to the value of your character's life. You were literally one potential step away from death at all times.

I'm not posting this to incite an argument; to be honest, trolling for people's reactions that I'll never truly get to see appreciate is more or less behind me these days. This is just some food for thought, and me probing around to garner other people's input.

Also, for the record, I'm quite good at killing people at this point. I'm not looking to make the game easier for myself by asking for the old damage system to be reinstated so that I can then camp on Sniper Hill in Elektro - quite the opposite, in fact. I'm looking to experience the infamous DayZ fear and paranoia that I've long since forgotten.

Anyone else agree, or am I just a strikingly handsome loner?

[S3V3N 1402]

DISCLAIMER: Typing this on my phone, potential grammatical genocide to follow.

Does anyone one else recall the glory days of DayZ: Standalone when - generally - one bullet to the chest/back was death? Every now and then you'd get shot in the arm or leg, but for the most part, as soon as you heard a bullet ring out out was quickly followed by, "You are dead."

Me and the wife were talking about this yesterday, and it got me taking a walk down Memory Lane. All we do is seek out other players with which to engage in some PVP these days. What sparked the conversation to begin with was how easy PVP has become over the past year and a half; the thrill of exposing yourself whilst changing positions, of pushing on your opponent, of taking fire from an unknown assailant...it all feels so...empty lately.

If I'm looting an area and begin to take fire, I don't panic anymore. I know that the odds are that - even if said assassin manages to hit me - I'm more than likely not going to die. I can just...run away. Once I get enough distance I can heal myself, and then choose whether or not to re-engage.

In the past, the Mosin would kill you in one shot. Period. Even if you were healthy with military gear equipped, a shot to the chest was death. The M4A1 would normally kill in one shot to the chest, and always two.

It felt so much more realistic and added a lot more to the value of your character's life. You were literally one potential step away from death at all times.

I'm not posting this to incite an argument; to be honest, trolling for people's reactions that I'll never truly get to see appreciate is more or less behind me these days. This is just some food for thought, and me probing around to garner other people's input.

Also, for the record, I'm quite good at killing people at this point. I'm not looking to make the game easier for myself by asking for the old damage system to be reinstated so that I can then camp on Sniper Hill in Elektro - quite the opposite, in fact. I'm looking to experience the infamous DayZ fear and paranoia that I've long since forgotten.

Anyone else agree, or am I just a strikingly handsome loner?

 

Pfft, all it did was make life to easy for snipers. A shot to the head still gets you killed, though you may survive with a helmet or something that deflects the bullet. Imho that's exatcly how it should be. I don't wear the plate carrier for nothing. If I got killed with a one hit on that, it would be pretty pointless. I don't think the game suffers from being a bit more arcade, espcially since all we can do at the moment is shoot at each other. Could be mildly fixed when zombies are back in, but generally I like that I don't usually die from a single shot. 2-3 shots from my CR75 to the chest, still make a guy unconscious. Then I can either capture him or kill him. That's far better than killing him with a one hit.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

There would obviously be exceptions like the Plate Carrier. Its sole purpose is stopping harmful things from injuring you. However, a rain coat full of bean cans isn't going to stop a 7.62, 5.56, 5.45, .308, .357, or a .45 caliber round.

I appreciate the comment, but I disagree with your sentiments of it being acceptable that a game striving to achieve authenticity lapses into the realm of "arcade". :T

Capturing people is something we'll see more of when your character's life means more than it currently does. When "YOLO" is quashed, getting the drop on someone and demanding they surrender will be a much more viable way of restraining them. Certainly more so than shooting them several times with the current damage system implementation and hoping they don't die before you can bandage them. ;3

Edited September 4, 2015 by Grimey Rick

[Whyherro123 2283]

I agree: PvP is pretty boring now that you know that you can tank a couple, or even a multitude, of shots, even center mass. I was shot at by an SKS the other day, and I was decidedly blase about getting to cover.

 

For the above: yes, the plate carrier should "protect" you from bullets, to the effect where the bullets won't penetrate your body, but IMO, getting shot with a plate carrier should result in 1) the plates themselves being broken and useless and 2) you getting winded, knocked over, or even having ribs broken. Cover should be the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd lines of defense, a plate carrier would be for those "oops moments, not so you can stand out in the open mag-dumping.

 

Of course, all of this is coming from the guy that wants a much more advanced and punishing medical system. In my mind, that rag won't do anything to help with that bullet in your chest. You should, really, be doing almost everything in your power to prevent being injured in the first place, like ambushing, fighting guerrilla-style, or straight-up running away/avoiding the fight in the first place.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Whyherro123

[gannon46 788]

there are a few guns that do pretty much one hit kill the winchester and the SVD hit someone in the leg or the arm or the chest equals certain death. I watched a friend kill a few folks with an iron sighted winchester with no more than 3 shots. So the danger is still there some what though i do know what you mean i got ambushed the other day they missed me being bad shots i got in a hidden place and waited one showed himself i hit him from less than 200m hit him twice with the AK-74 the son of a bitch got in the truck and took off after takin two rounds that i seen hit him in the chest no plate carrier i was like what the hell ok didn't know humans could handle super sonic rounds to the chest lol.

Edited September 4, 2015 by gannon46

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Besides the time to kill changing in game, it also sounds like you've become jaded and have wrung the experience dry for yourself on some level.

 

Though "humans are the ultimate x factor", you've likely seen most firefight scenarios and most ways people engage in combat many times over.

 

You've whipped that dead horse countless times and now....

 

https://youtu.be/oica5jG7FpU

 

 

Meh.

Edited September 4, 2015 by BioHaze

[PrincessRobotBubblegum 27]

I understand what the OP is saying, however I personally would not want one hit kill. While yes it can seem more realistic, but from a gaming aspect it would take the fun of surviving after being shot (i.e. having to bandage, rushing to get saline, etc).

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

I think what's happening is the bullet ends up ricocheting between your cans of beans half a dozen times before popping back out the front of your shirt - the damage indicator isn't telling you that you've been shot, it's telling you that you've suffered emotional damage from losing all those goddamn beans. =(

 

Seriously though, it's been a long time since I used a Mosin or anything else running 7.62 ammo. Remember, on the modern battlefield 7.62 is meant to kill, everything less than that is meant to wound, so don't be surprised if an AK-74 doesn't kill in one shot to centre mass. There definitely seems to be a heavy luck factor, perhaps leaning a little too far in the defender's favour.

 

That being said, when I get shot (which, frankly, is rare these days, so I might not have the most useful data) I've always noticed a high likelihood of bone fracture or break if it's in a limb. Not so much in centre mass.

 

Perhaps we need a bit less bouncing about inside your inventory before doing actual damage, maybe some additional health factors on a gutshot or organ wound.

[jayfkay (DayZ) 185]

Rick I hope you do realize that the plate carrier pretty much does nothing? as does the press vest. Its fucked.

[Baker. 1484]

While its hard to argue with op and his logic, this is so far down the list of shit this game needs that to me its almost insignificant. and---AND is something that could easily be toggled in a server config option. Like dayzweapondamage=whatever

[B4GEL 175]

There is definitely some issues and inconsistencies in the damage system. In 'laboratory conditions' 7.62x54 kills in one body shot and 5.45x39 kills in two but it always seems to take much more than that in a firefight.

According to Hicks in one of the pax streams, the new damage system is being implemented in .59 so hopefully we'll see an increase in realism or at least consistency then. The new player controller is most likely not far away either, which will improve the situation massively (wound states, limping etc).

[BCBasher 2465]

I agree, and I die more than I kill but some of my most memorable moments have been the instant "you are dead" and slumping in my chair thinking about what I just did wrong.

 

Human being are aware what happened when they get shot and most even if they're not killed emotionally shut down and loose their will to fight from one bullet. That's what under 0.30cal military ball rounds are intended for, cleanly pass through but put one guy in shock so he freaks out and it takes two of his comrades out of the fight also trying to aid him. 0.30cal and above especially the commercial looking 0.308cal expanding hunting bullets, they are meant to do irreparable tissue and organ damage while dumping all their kinetic energy stunning the target as well, head or center mass should be a one hit kill, vest or not they should be incapacitated.

 

I miss the early Clancy games like Rainbow Six, Rogue Spear, and Ghost Recon where you could take a guy out of the fight with a shot to the ankle under a vehicle. You get shot in the ankle all you're thinking is "fuck, my ankle" not gee I should slap a rag on that and get back to running and shooting.  

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

 me probing around to garner other people's input.

 

Well, since you're asking I will offer it. In general, it is acknowledged and understood in game design that lower TTKs discourage emergent gameplay. For a sandbox game wherein one of the core pillars is emergent play, a slightly higher TTK is best. Compare TTK in CoD to Battlefield, for example. CoD's is much lower and, as a result, you end up with a ton of camping and a narrowed skill gap. Lower TTKs make it more likely that new or casual players will be able to get kills also. 

 

In my opinion, were it not for authenticity, I'd want double the current TTK across the board. I'm probably at little biased though. I came into my own as an FPS player with Halo's high TTK, highly skill dependent arena combat

Edited September 4, 2015 by ColdAtrophy

[Bororm 1156]

Damage needs to be higher, the damage model is total shit.  Other changes need to happen too, like run speed.  I'd also like to see more effects/animations for being wounded, so even if you don't necessarily die you at least get fucked up.

[S3V3N 1402]

Isn't it also more or less so that all the rifles (of the same caliber) do similar damage at the moment? This whole situation may be temporary, until all weapons actually receive proper stats?! Don't quote me on this though. I'm not a Wiki-goer when it comes to Dayz, but I think someone mentioned that to me a week ago or so. I was a bit surprised myself, because they definitely feel different. I think he looked up the difference between the UMP and MP5 and it turned out they do the same damage; and they even aren't the same caliber. Not too sure about this, but if you know better feel free to correct me. 

Edited September 4, 2015 by S3V3N

[Irish. 4886]

6 month vacation from Dayz, gaming and life in general and nothings changed in the dayz field huh?

 

*goes back to deserted island  :|

[Bororm 1156]

Isn't it also more or less so that all the rifles (of the same caliber) do similar damage at the moment? This whole situation may be temporary, until all weapons actually receive proper stats?! Don't quote me on this though. I'm not a Wiki-goer when it comes to Dayz, but I think someone mentioned that to me a week ago or so. I was a bit surprised myself, because they definitely feel different. I think he looked up the difference between the UMP and MP5 and it turned out they do the same damage; and they even aren't the same caliber. Not too sure about this, but if you know better feel free to correct me. 

 

I believe that's wrong about the UMP and mp5.  The UMP damage is very high, where the mp5 in my experience is fairly weak.

 

The problem with damage is less the weapon damage and more the protection items give.  I think the latter should be addressed before the former.

[BCBasher 2465]

I believe that's wrong about the UMP and mp5.  The UMP damage is very high, where the mp5 in my experience is fairly weak.

 

The problem with damage is less the weapon damage and more the protection items give.  I think the latter should be addressed before the former.

 

As far as I know gun damage per shot relies entirely on the projectile?

 

Throw in dispersion, rate of fire, and I believe a degradation of base damage over distance and you can get an effective damage per second at a given range. The ballistic damage model is already better than most without modifiers for barrel length, blowback/locked bolt actions etc.

 

The protection is all just a placeholder currently right now.

[vfxtodd 125]

I don't think one hit kills are realistic at all. Especially if you're shooting from far away, there's no way of knowing how accurate your shot was. Players get shot in the legs and go down and have to crawl. But, as others have pointed out, it depends on the ammo you use and the distance from where you're shooting from, coupled with where you hit your target.

[emuthreat 2837]

I'm not posting this to incite an argument; to be honest, trolling for people's reactions that I'll never truly get to see appreciate is more or less behind me these days. This is just some food for thought, and me probing around to garner other people's input.

Damage is just about fine where it is at.  Don't you go and hang up that hat just yet; at least not until the game lets us trade zombies a shoe for 112 ounces of puddin'. 

[boneboys 7988]

Took two shotgun blasts to kill me the other day and I read that Hicks took some damage wearing his plate carrier but survived to tell the tale.

The last time I fired on someone with a peashooter trumpet wasn't very successful to be honest, I did manage to escape a dodgy situation by legging it outa there in what I would term as a strategic withdrawal  :D

[Bororm 1156]

Took two shotgun blasts to kill me the other day and I read that Hicks took some damage wearing his plate carrier but survived to tell the tale.

The last time I fired on someone with a peashooter trumpet wasn't very successful to be honest, I did manage to escape a dodgy situation by legging it outa there in what I would term as a strategic withdrawal  :D

 

I blasted on a guy upwards of 4x with a shotgun the other day before just leaving him with broken legs.  A good amount of pellets hitting each time.  He was just one of multiple people I've blasted to little effect this patch.

 

The shotguns are really bad again this patch.  If you are point blank and land every pellet you'll probably get them, but individual pellet damage is terrible and the spread (at least on the double barrel) is pretty much comical.  I almost made another thread about it again the other day, but it seems like I've done that about 3 times now.  I don't understand why the shotguns are constantly tweaked so much, there's been some patches where they were just right.

 

Here's a guy I hit in the legs, you can see about 3-4 distinct blood trails and his ruined pants:

 

His legs didn't even break.

[boneboys 7988]

I took two full frontal blasts from about 4/5 metres distance, the first put me in a total state of shock and the second killed me, you are dead...

So as far as I'm concerned they are working rather well.

[therandomredstone 432]

I'm with you.

 

I think once guns are like super rare (which they will be one day) then they will be pretty OP and sought after.

[Bororm 1156]

I took two full frontal blasts from about 4/5 metres distance, the first put me in a total state of shock and the second killed me, you are dead...

So as far as I'm concerned they are working rather well.

 

As I said, point blank with all pellets contacting, yeah they will mess you up (though the fact it took 2 blasts at 4m is telling to their crappy damage).  However, they are pretty ineffective past about 20m, if even that.  The spread on them is very wide even at that range, and the individual pellet damage is garbage.  The result being, you might land only 1-2 pellets between a 20-30m range and essentially do nothing to them.  That's pretty unreasonable for a shotgun, they shouldn't be restricted to pointblank blunderbusses.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Bororm