Stable Branch - 0.58 Discussion

[Linus22 2]

Yeah I'm playing on a private server and the officer tent in Miya is just a loot explosion.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think only 3 chopper crashes spawn per server in random locations every four hours and out of those three it could be 2 American and 1 Russian or 2 Russian and 1 American or any combination of those two to the max number of 3 correct?  

Edited September 9, 2015 by Linus22

[xCrankx 99]

This.

i guess choppers need tweaking because the way they are right now, is just not rewarding most of the times.

I have found maybe 3-4 Us Choppers and at the last one i found 1 Ump45 and 2 Steyr Aug not so bad at all.

Edited September 9, 2015 by xCrankx

[VahidkinG 192]

I have found maybe 3-4 Us Choppers and at the last one i found 1 Ump45 and 2 Steyr Aug not so bad at all.

 

 

well, you must be lucky then. i just started playing in only two servers (just two for the population, so if one is empty i can jump into the other) and i found like 20-25 crash sites (over this two weeks) and i only found an AuG and smersh vest so far. most of the times either the chopper was empty (nothing wrong about that)  or at most of the times i go there and find some damaged boots and some hats or if lucky a vest (which i can find easily in military tents)

 

i just don't feel this as rewarding as it should be.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

:blush:  :blush:

 

i apologize and hopefully my english gets better if time goes by.

 

btw, in 1984 i was for 6 weeks on holiday in the states. i was searching my "gate" on JFK for my flight to rochester, and asked a young lady from the airline  "where is my stage?" she laughed and i was confused...

 

so, i know, my english is sometimes "funny" and mostly "bad", 

 

but sorry  :(

 

 

No apology necessary!

 

Practice makes perfect and I think your English is improving.

 

I can usually figure out what you are saying but in this instance I wanted to offer you the better word for the future.

 

I can imagine you getting some strange looks if you used the word suck in the wrong place in conversation. :D

 

I have spent a fair amount of time in Germany (I have a cousin living in Berlin) and tried to learn some German through Rosetta stone.

 

I had no trouble with vocabulary but the grammar was intimidating and I gave up the course.

[E.J. 16]

Why haven't the bows been fixed? Wow, what a waste gathering all those feathers. No other ranged craftable weapons like sling-shots and the sort, and this issue still exists?

[IMT 3190]

Why haven't the bows been fixed? Wow, what a waste gathering all those feathers. No other ranged craftable weapons like sling-shots and the sort, and this issue still exists?

They can't make walking with a bow raised because of the current animation system. When the new animation system is in they will make walking with a bow raised possible.

[jayfkay (DayZ) 185]

on this screen you see the black leathersack and the black leather hat.

Edited September 10, 2015 by jayfkay

[OrganGrinder 89]

Technical question regarding the CLE...  My understanding is that there is a "maximum" count of any specific loot item which, if reached on a given server, will cause no more of that item type to be spawned (until that threshold is no longer exceeded).  So, for instance, lets say for arguments sake the configured maximum for Augs is 5 (I have no idea).  

 

If myself and 4 buddies grab the five Augs as they are introduced to the world (maybe 3 at first, then the other 2 over time as they appear) and store them in tents around that server I would expect no more Augs to spawn until, say, the tents despawn after a month or two.

 

If I carry one of the Augs on me and am killed and my Aug falls to the ground and is never picked up by anyone I presume it will despawn after some amount of time, right?  If so then it would respawn again at some point because the maximum is not reached, right?  I hope I have this part right so far.

 

Now, if I'm not mistaken, loot on a player is not included in the CLE calculations...  if true then if we all carried our Augs on our backs at all times in the server does that mean that 5 more should spawn in eventually?  I would think at least a few would rather quickly since the "minimum" count has not been exceeded.

 

And in the worst case scenario, would the repeated pattern of grabbing the Augs and storing them in another server allow for farming?  I hope there are protections against this.

 

I ask this because I have been playing on a private shard that I know has a limited number of players and the main players have all made camps and stored every piece of military gear they could find in, say, the first 4 or 5 days of 0.58.  The server has become a virtual ghost town because there is no "good" gear to cause people to roam the map over.  It is all in tents and simply none of it is respawning.  Interestingly, all the M4A1s found so far are (I was told) in players' inventories, yet no more are spawning (the main players still dutifully search).  This leaves me scratching my head as to what the rules of the CLE are in this regard.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  Are my assumptions off the mark?

[sanguine00 168]

Technical question regarding the CLE...  My understanding is that there is a "maximum" count of any specific loot item which, if reached on a given server, will cause no more of that item type to be spawned (until that threshold is no longer exceeded).  So, for instance, lets say for arguments sake the configured maximum for Augs is 5 (I have no idea).  

 

If myself and 4 buddies grab the five Augs as they are introduced to the world (maybe 3 at first, then the other 2 over time as they appear) and store them in tents around that server I would expect no more Augs to spawn until, say, the tents despawn after a month or two.

 

If I carry one of the Augs on me and am killed and my Aug falls to the ground and is never picked up by anyone I presume it will despawn after some amount of time, right?  If so then it would respawn again at some point because the maximum is not reached, right?  I hope I have this part right so far.

 

Now, if I'm not mistaken, loot on a player is not included in the CLE calculations...  if true then if we all carried our Augs on our backs at all times in the server does that mean that 5 more should spawn in eventually?  I would think at least a few would rather quickly since the "minimum" count has not been exceeded.

 

And in the worst case scenario, would the repeated pattern of grabbing the Augs and storing them in another server allow for farming?  I hope there are protections against this.

 

I ask this because I have been playing on a private shard that I know has a limited number of players and the main players have all made camps and stored every piece of military gear they could find in, say, the first 4 or 5 days of 0.58.  The server has become a virtual ghost town because there is no "good" gear to cause people to roam the map over.  It is all in tents and simply none of it is respawning.  Interestingly, all the M4A1s found so far are (I was told) in players' inventories, yet no more are spawning (the main players still dutifully search).  This leaves me scratching my head as to what the rules of the CLE are in this regard.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  Are my assumptions off the mark?

 

At this point, I don't think anyone but the devs know for sure.  They fixed a problem with "Certain items not being cleaned up by Lifetime (Age) cleanup", according to the Status Report, but they didn't tell us what items they are referring to and what other symptoms this could cause (would it cause these "certain items" to not spawn replacements?).

 

But at least we got a map of Chernarus with a bunch of purple splotches on it which shows how evenly-distributed the who-knows-what is.

[OrganGrinder 89]

At this point, I don't think anyone but the devs know for sure.  They fixed a problem with "Certain items not being cleaned up by Lifetime (Age) cleanup", according to the Status Report, but they didn't tell us what items they are referring to and what other symptoms this could cause (would it cause these "certain items" to not spawn replacements?).

 

But at least we got a map of Chernarus with a bunch of purple splotches on it which shows how evenly-distributed the who-knows-what is.

 

Yes, it is a pretty map showing where all the spawn points in the map are located.  Weirdly, the cities have more spawning ;)

 

Found Eugen's post on CLE again - I should have looked harder before posting I guess (https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/223307-central-economy/).  A thick read, but can answer the question about the 1 gun falling to the ground while all others are still stored in tents

 

Eugen:  Nominal value directly controls the amount of items the server is aiming to deliver at initial startup, after that the system is controlled by cleanup + realtime respawn. When an item class reaches (nominal - minimal) it will start restocking. Maximum amount of item class on a server is (nominal + maximum). There is also a setting that dictates maximum amount of items on a server as a total. 

 

 

This suggests that after the gun despawns another one will not spawn back because the (nominal-minumum) will not likely have been reached.

 

Also, I think I found my answer about the players having all the Augs on them...  Player-inventory-stored items count the same as tents/barrels/packs, so if all the players have the Augs on their backs or have them in tents then more *should* spawn in.  Clearly this is something not working right with the current CLE implementation at least on some servers.

 

Eugen:  Thus the loot caches should only happen with tents/cases/backpacks. While the system cleanes these items, it quickly starts restocking the original spawn points (memory points on buildings). Items in tents/backpacks/player inventories are not part of the calculation!

 

[sanguine00 168]

Also, I think I found my answer about the players having all the Augs on them...  Player-inventory-stored items count the same as tents/barrels/packs, so if all the players have the Augs on their backs or have them in tents then more *should* spawn in.  Clearly this is something not working right with the current CLE implementation at least on some servers.

 

You'd think it would be clear, and this is why so many people have commented on guns dwindling on many private servers, but I really don't think the devs believe there is a problem here.  Or if they do, they have been tight-lipped about it.

[Super_Duty 466]

Sorry for my opinion, but seriously, do you, and everyone else complaining expect that a crash site is going to be virgin at the point when you happen to arrive? 

 

 

This.

i guess choppers need tweaking because the way they are right now, is just not rewarding most of the times.

[BleedoutBill 1636]

I would think at least a few would rather quickly since the "minimum" count has not been exceeded.

First, there is, "the plan" and then there is, "today, a snapshot in time."

 

As I understand it, your have accurately described the plan. I would only disagree with the highlighted bit, above. If we weren't discussing AUGs and other top tier long guns, I wouldn't have highlighted anything. However, the top tier items are a special case and when one spawns, another spawn is prohibited, until a timer expires. As I understand it, that timer is currently set at thirty minutes. Judging by the way the wind is blowing, I wouldn't be surprised if that timer is increased, as we grow closer to v1.0.

[BleedoutBill 1636]

Slot machines don't pay off every time that  the handle is pulled, but some folks get up in arms if a crash site doesn't contain a minimum of a M4 and two AUGs. I hope that these folks never travel to Las Vegas, because they will be sorely disappointed. Still, you have to admire their optimism ...

Edited September 10, 2015 by BleedoutBill

[Super_Duty 466]

Crash sites are one of my favorite things to stumble across, or look for.  Sometimes rewarding, many times not.  But never the less, hairs stand up when I come across one.

[sanguine00 168]

Slot machines don't pay off every time that  the handle is pulled, but some folks get up in arms if a crash site doesn't contain a minimum of a M4 and two AUGs. I hope that these folks never travel to Las Vegas, because they will be sorely disappointed. Still, you have to admire their optimism ...

 

I think their rationale is that there are so few places for loot of that quality to spawn, that they expect to see something good at a chopper.  I'm pretty sure most choppers usually do spawn some good stuff, and in most cases failure is just as a result of someone beating them to the punch.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

I think their rationale is that there are so few places for loot of that quality to spawn, that they expect to see something good at a chopper.  I'm pretty sure most choppers usually do spawn some good stuff, and in most cases failure is just as a result of someone beating them to the punch.

 

I started this line of discussion. I have found at least 25 choppers that were untouched this week, but had little to no items of upper tier quality. How do I know this? Simple. We have only had our server running for about 12 days and the only real traffic we get is from hoppers at NWAF. I know that because we often sit at the quonsets and wait for them to run into our bullets like lemmings running off a cliff. I spend my mornings off driving around Chernarus alone except for the super occasional 10 minute or less hopper. Sometimes, I have even found choppers right after they have spawned and there had been no visitors to the server in the time between when it spawned and when I found it (knowing this because when I passed by the same area earlier on my route, there was no chopper). I have literally seen dresses and quilted jackets spawn at choppers. I no longer feel they are a worthwhile pursuit and honestly have to talk myself into going out of my way to check one when I happen across it. 

 

As far as I can fathom, this is because the entire public hive is being treated just the same as one private server. Once all the good gear is in the hands of players and maximum values have been reached, what else can it give you? It will still spawn some lower tier stuff, but there will be no high grade stuff. My opinion on this matter will probably be disputed since I can offer little more than anecdotal evidence, but I've watched the loot tables change every day since the patch went to Stable. The choppers are not what they once were. At this point, I count myself lucky to walk away from a US crash with a single box of 5.56. 

 

In order for the current system to work, in my opinion, players need to start dying and losing gear. Let's hope the infected return with the brute strength and numbers necessary to start challenging even the people who don't hang out all day at hot spots and occasionally killing them.

Edited September 10, 2015 by ColdAtrophy

[eno 1049]

It was still there last night but I used it and some other part rolls fishing for carp trying to get food poisoning again.  

 

 

I didn't exactly eat a ton but I did manage to fish some carp for the first time (no idea why I waited so long) and didn't get sick. I only ate a couple... and my health is high... I cooked it on a stick.

 

Did I read earlier in the thread that red meat was "fixed?" Perhaps I read it somewhere else? 

 

We tried to find some animals of any description this evening and struck out...

[sanguine00 168]

As far as I can fathom, this is because the entire public hive is being treated just the same as one private server. Once all the good gear is in the hands of players and maximum values have been reached, what else can it give you? It will still spawn some lower tier stuff, but there will be no high grade stuff. My opinion on this matter will probably be disputed since I can offer little more than anecdotal evidence, but I've watched the loot tables change every day since the patch went to Stable. The choppers are not what they once were. At this point, I count myself lucky to walk away from a US crash with a single box of 5.56. 

 

In order for the current system to work, in my opinion, players need to start dying and losing gear. Let's hope the infected return with the brute strength and numbers necessary to start challenging even the people who don't hang out all day at hot spots and occasionally killing them.

 

Very strange.  The last two choppers I encountered, the first was on a public server about a week ago, which had an AUG and a coupled mag.  The other was over the weekend on a private server where I found military boots, .45ACP, and an RDS.  Not the greatest gear, but still military gear.  I figured maybe someone else found it before I did.

 

If your findings are indicative of a trend, then it adds fuel to the idea that maybe there's an issue with the CLE that hasn't been sussed out as of yet.

[IMT 3190]

I started this line of discussion. I have found at least 25 choppers that were untouched this week, but had little to no items of upper tier quality. How do I know this? Simple. We have only had our server running for about 12 days and the only real traffic we get is from hoppers at NWAF. I know that because we often sit at the quonsets and wait for them to run into our bullets like lemmings running off a cliff. I spend my mornings off driving around Chernarus alone except for the super occasional 10 minute or less hopper. Sometimes, I have even found choppers right after they have spawned and there had been no visitors to the server in the time between when it spawned and when I found it (knowing this because when I passed by the same area earlier on my route, there was no chopper). I have literally seen dresses and quilted jackets spawn at choppers. I no longer feel they are a worthwhile pursuit and honestly have to talk myself into going out of my way to check one when I happen across it. 

 

As far as I can fathom, this is because the entire public hive is being treated just the same as one private server. Once all the good gear is in the hands of players and maximum values have been reached, what else can it give you? It will still spawn some lower tier stuff, but there will be no high grade stuff. My opinion on this matter will probably be disputed since I can offer little more than anecdotal evidence, but I've watched the loot tables change every day since the patch went to Stable. The choppers are not what they once were. At this point, I count myself lucky to walk away from a US crash with a single box of 5.56. 

 

In order for the current system to work, in my opinion, players need to start dying and losing gear. Let's hope the infected return with the brute strength and numbers necessary to start challenging even the people who don't hang out all day at hot spots and occasionally killing them.

Player gear doesn't count towards the CLE, does it? Maybe the CLE needs some tweaks and fixes here and there. Because if you always find like nothing at a crashsite isn't really the purpose I guess.

[eno 1049]

Player gear doesn't count towards the CLE, does it? 

 

I'm glad you put that as a question. Every indication I've seen in the last half dozen choppers I've found (on our own server where we pretty much know what's been going on) in the last few days point towards really pathetic gear spawning at the choppers. Granted, we don't really need snazzy gear since we're pretty well kitted out but that's the point. We bombed up with high speed kit early on and stashed it for a rainy day... Everything I've seen so far definitely supports the suggestion that camp loot counts within the loot tables. I don't think it's supposed to be related but it sure seems like it is. 

 

Not that I'm an authority on the subject but I'm not sure this is rated for coincidence. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by ENO75

[theSpike 1]

Haven't had any problems with chopper spawns on our sever, but I noticed that weapons spawn only 5/10.

I found something like 20 clean shoppers on our closed server and only every second had a weapon, but all of them at least 6 items military gear.

[VahidkinG 192]

while my observations are less than what @ColdAtrophy observed. i came across at least 6 choppers that i know for sure are "Virgin's" ( like i found one while i was going back from my trip to myshkino from military base at vybor and back, when i was going, there was no chopper and when i got back, there was one)  anyway, i didn't find anything interesting to pick up, every time i found those, they were filled with boots and vests beside one time that i found an Aug and Smersh vest at the same spot. i had no luck to find a mag(for aug) at crash sites.

 

also, the CLE issue i guess is linked to officer tents loot explosion and glitches. like a time that i found 2 AK101 an aug and an M4 in one officer tent and lots of mags and other stuff. 

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

Technical question regarding the CLE...  My understanding is that there is a "maximum" count of any specific loot item which, if reached on a given server, will cause no more of that item type to be spawned (until that threshold is no longer exceeded).  So, for instance, lets say for arguments sake the configured maximum for Augs is 5 (I have no idea).  

 

If myself and 4 buddies grab the five Augs as they are introduced to the world (maybe 3 at first, then the other 2 over time as they appear) and store them in tents around that server I would expect no more Augs to spawn until, say, the tents despawn after a month or two.

 

If I carry one of the Augs on me and am killed and my Aug falls to the ground and is never picked up by anyone I presume it will despawn after some amount of time, right?  If so then it would respawn again at some point because the maximum is not reached, right?  I hope I have this part right so far.

 

Now, if I'm not mistaken, loot on a player is not included in the CLE calculations...  if true then if we all carried our Augs on our backs at all times in the server does that mean that 5 more should spawn in eventually?  I would think at least a few would rather quickly since the "minimum" count has not been exceeded.

 

And in the worst case scenario, would the repeated pattern of grabbing the Augs and storing them in another server allow for farming?  I hope there are protections against this.

 

I ask this because I have been playing on a private shard that I know has a limited number of players and the main players have all made camps and stored every piece of military gear they could find in, say, the first 4 or 5 days of 0.58.  The server has become a virtual ghost town because there is no "good" gear to cause people to roam the map over.  It is all in tents and simply none of it is respawning.  Interestingly, all the M4A1s found so far are (I was told) in players' inventories, yet no more are spawning (the main players still dutifully search).  This leaves me scratching my head as to what the rules of the CLE are in this regard.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  Are my assumptions off the mark?

 

Right now - we have disabled container storage counting towards the server maximums, so no - the gear in the tents would not stop more from spawning, (Right now)

 

As well, items on players do not count towards a servers totals. M4s have a very high cost, very high restock time (I think 12 hours right now) and very low quantity.

[Tonyeh 454]

3 of the 4 rifles you listed would probably fall under the list of those that many would like to see be ultra rare (and the Winchester currently is).

 

I have absolutely no problems with automatics being relatively rare, but in my opinion civilian rifles like the Blaze, Winchester, and Mosin should be readily lootable, with the hunter scope being moderately rare.  Those are the guns you can engage militarized players with and have a fighting chance.

 

You see, here's the problem with these guns.

 

They're distance guns, not firefight guns. Which means the player using them has, likely, been stalking other players and firing at them from afar.

 

There are players that don't stalk other players in DayZ and in my experience most players bumping into each other happens by accident and fairly close up. That's where the likes of the MP5 is indispensable. I'm one of those players that isn't interested in stalking other players (although, I have observed other players from afar) and when I get into a firefight, it's nearly always a close up afair and in those instances an AK will beat a Blaze 90% of the time. For that reason, I'll swap out a Whinchester for a full auto machine gun every day of the week.