First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[mercules 1290]

3PP servers are easymode. You don't have to enter most buildings to look for items just swing the camera around as you run past the window. If and when Zombies become a nuisance again you can easily avoid them by peeking over and around things. Firefights devolve into  hiding in cover waiting for the other person to break cover, pre-aiming, then popping up and shooting them. Driving is simple in 3PP and even gives you extra camera pull back so you can easily see people behind walls you pass instead of having to worry about not seeing someone and having them pop out once you pass and blow a tire out. 

 

On top of that the immersion is better in 1PP. 

 

 

As for those that feel ill from 1PP... sorry, but we don't make movies with nothing but a black screen because some people are blind and can't enjoy the visual quality of it. They also don't make DayZ with a high contrast mode or with a "color blind" mode where the players don't blend in with everything. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Mercules

[WilliamTheConqueror 81]

I enjoy both 1pp and 3pp, the thing for me is I can only tolerate 1pp so long. It seems to be a combination of screen sway and head bobbing, it makes me physically ill after so long, maybe an hour...2 if I'm lucky. It also boils down to having a choice, if Dayz were 1pp only then you will cut of some of the player base, same goes for 3pp only.

I can't say one is better than the other and there are too many strong opinions on this subject much like other aspects of the game that you will never get people to see eye to eye on. No ones opinion is right or wrong, just play the damn game how you want to play

You can turn off head bob. It is a slider in the menu.

[BeefBacon 1185]

But if 3pp servers are stealing people from 1pp servers then that means that they prefer 3pp to begin with...

 

I have to stick to 3pp because most 1pp servers are depopulated. Riddle me that.

[Konfucious K 183]

90 degree view is just simply boring when you run 30+ mins. in wasteland alone and in same time 3pp is beautiful eye candy. Graphic details of this game are just too good to hide.

OBV when i want to PvP i choose 1pp because its much more fun and lot more intensive, but mostly then i choose arma series instead.

 

If you want ppl to prefer 1pp then there should be some kind of advantages. Like sunglasses and NVGs could work only in 1pp, removing reticle when hip firing etc.

Forcing dont work, rewarding do.

 

Not sure advantages would be the word I'd use, but incentives for sure. I think the beauty of DayZ is the disadvantages that a player faces in every day playing. Although I do agree removing 3pp altogether from the game, which as far as I know, has never been considered either in public servers or in-game, would ruin a lot of content creators' options. The game is indeed beautiful and should be appreciated.

 

Some have headaches from 1pp, and the twisting of the camera. So its not harder, its a problem with some of these views in game.

There are more then us then you think.

 

First world problems. Set your mouse sensitivity to lower or avoid playing video games for prolonged periods - this is actually common advice.

 

EDIT: I just wanted to add in, because I realised I may be coming off a bit callous. It is a bit unfair for someone to expect an artistic concept of the game to be altered just because they, and a small percentage of population, get some degree of virtual reality sickness. Especially when this sickness could be attributed to a myriad of factors like bad lighting, nutrient deficiency, monitor refresh rates etc.

 

My point is, if the Developers decide that the direction they intend for this experience to be 1pp, then a small amount of people with headaches/motion sickness/virtual reality sickness are not a valid enough argument to expect them to change their outlook. Even more so because they have actually provided for an alternative anyway.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Konfucious K

[Tatanko 5591]

You don't have to enter most buildings to look for items just swing the camera around as you run past the window.

I think I would miss a lot of loot if that's how I approached the process  :huh:

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

3PP is not DayZ.

 

Let's completely rename 3PP standalone, maybe call it DroneZ Easy Mode PvP Playground.

 

We can keep the survival mechanics at about where they are (maybe less), and completely leave out stamina and weight stats.

 

Allow for self blood bagging and unfettered camera zoom so you can see full RTS view for a mile around you.

 

Remove the infected. They aren't posing a threat anyway as they can't see over walls.

 

So now the revolving door community will move over to that game and BI can keep funneling money into our survival game!

 

Win/Win!

[tobias winfro 305]

You can turn off head bob. It is a slider in the menu.

I realize it can be turned off and it has been for a long time but it still does happen for me at least. That being said, I do try to play 1pp when I can. Mainly when I run with the few people I trust or when we can find a populated server but it can be challenging to find one.

I really hate to beat a dead horse but the immersion of 1pp seems to keep me coming back, with 3pp its just more of casual fun with friends or we run with a few people who absolutely refuse to play 1pp.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Tobias Winfro

[mercules 1290]

I think I would miss a lot of loot if that's how I approached the process  :huh:

Not really... by that I mean if you are looking for something like a larger or more camouflaged backpack or say a waterproof military top instead of the black rain jacket you are wearing. With 1PP you have to look a bit more carefully moving past a barracks while in 3PP you can simply buzz past and will see if there is anything inside easily. Train cars you can buzz by quickly. Say you have all the ammo, food, and clothing you need but are just checking civilian houses for rifles/shotguns you can literally run past several of them in 3PP and check. Same thing with many deer stands. 3PP you can often stand on the ground and search them while 1PP you have to climb up into them to look. 

[mercules 1290]

I have to stick to 3pp because most 1pp servers are depopulated. Riddle me that.

 

The majority of people will take the path of least resistance. Which mode is easier? 3PP, ergo more people will play it because it is the easier of the two options. Just like most people will choose ARMA III servers with waypoints enabled instead of the mercenary servers where you have to actually have some navigations skills. 

[Reacher (DayZ) 15]

Why not keep it a choice??? Like it is now?? What´s the problem with that?? If I want to play 1pp I´d seek one of them servers up, same thing with 3pp. Simple.

I think this whole "1pp or nothing!!! 3pp rules, s***w you!! 3pp is for kids!! Blah blah" is stupid.

It´s like from the Battlefield series, wich I have played lots, people argued about vehicles or infantry servers...we had both. And it worked just fine.

Peace

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Yay. This thread........again......this week......*grabs popcorn and lawn chair* 

[Konfucious K 183]

To be fair, everyone has ignored the biggest and oldest player in the game; top-down. I would imagine there has to be a certain demographic that would like an overhead view like in the good ol' Chrono Trigger days...

[Baker. 1484]

Why not keep it a choice??? Like it is now?? What´s the problem with that?? If I want to play 1pp I´d seek one of them servers up, same thing with 3pp. Simple.

I think this whole "1pp or nothing!!! 3pp rules, s***w you!! 3pp is for kids!! Blah blah" is stupid.

It´s like from the Battlefield series, wich I have played lots, people argued about vehicles or infantry servers...we had both. And it worked just fine.

Peace

Keep your common sense out of here!

[mercules 1290]

Why not keep it a choice??? Like it is now?? What´s the problem with that??

 

As stated players will lean toward the easier gameplay the majority of the time. That doesn't mean it is 'better' just simpler. 

 

It's like stating, "People prefer to start with a gun. What's the problem with that?" "Well, now that they start with a gun they would prefer an M4 with two mags. What's the problem with that?" and so on. 

[trev186 389]

personally with the new blur effects and stuff they added being in first person literally makes me nauseous...

 

before i took a break i played 1pp just as much as 3pp. forcing people to be 1pp only unless they join a private hive is nonsense to me.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Oh dear, this again.

 

1PP player - "3PP is easy mode"

3PP player - "Just go play 1PP servers and leave us alone"

 

I agree with both sentiments.

[Noctoras 409]

So, on Hick's twitter it's a dick beating contest atm how 1pp is king, and so on. But honestly, I can't comprehend why people feel that others shouldn't be aloud to enjoy the game they want to. ..  

 

It makes perfect sense, though, if you aim to make a wide map first person shooter out of DayZ and basically this is the direction DayZ has been heading for quite some time now. I don't like it, since I am a fan of the open world sandbox concept, but I have embraced reality for what it is - I have got my money's worth from the game already :)

 

That said, expect more guns, more incentives for a constant PvP fragfest and more KOS in the future - the game might not be for everyone (it won't be for me as a fan of sandbox games). And arguably, 1st person perspective is the better choice for a classic shooter.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Noctoras

[emuthreat 2837]

Maybe I'm the only one picking up on this, but here's my spin on why the FEW, OFFICIAL, servers are likely going to me made 1pp only.  With the vast majority of players who prefer 3pp wall peeking, 360 noscope #yolo, using the official servers as nothing more than mostly empty stash worlds, the official servers became pretty useless for general play.

 

When I first started playing the game, I gravitated towards the vanilla experience of the official servers because I wanted to be sure I started off learning how to play the game I bought, as it was intended to be played by the developers.  I didn't even notice there was a 3pp option until I started meeting other players who ask me about what's on the other side of walls.  (I tell them "IDK, how am I supposed to see through a damn wall")  And thus, my 3pp cherry having been broken, I was doomed to walk the earth for months, with the likes of KOSers and "a lot" of people with medical concerns preventing them from enjoying the game as completely and comfortably as they should.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the purpose of making the FEW OFFICIAL servers 1pp, is an effort to forcibly separate the 3pp PVP crowd from being able to use these vanilla servers as pirates' coves, in which they safely stash all of their stolen, farmed, and duped gear, so they can perform a dimensional shift and easily re-arm every time they die.

 

Of course this still means that people who play 1pp will be able to use these vanilla servers as stash points, but with such a low population, the troubles resulting from this should be negligible.  It will also be a great way to introduce lone players to the world of DayZ, before they become corrupted by peeking over walls, and never want to turn back.

 

Just to toss this out there, I might just be getting better at the game, but it seems like since I have switched back to 1pp, I've been surviving more encounters.  I've also been doing combat more legitimately, rather than running up to an outside wall, and panning my camera to direct sniper fire 'through the walls' at the defenseless target inside.  I understand the whole "medical condition prevents me from using 1pp" argument, but I also know that deaf people don't usually enjoy concerts, and that flashing lights in video games can prevent some people prone to seizures from playing. 

 

I hate to get back into this contentious debate, but just because a large number of people like something a certain way, does not make it right.   It is the "bandwagon fallacy."  McDonalds sells a hell of a lot of hamburgers, but nobody is going to be able to convince me that they are the best food available just because a large number of people eat them.  For the large part, humans are lazy, selfish, morons, and we need to constantly fight ourselves to keep from settling into bad habits.

 

So here's my compromise:  3pp allowed to be used client side, but only with a doctor's note. lol    DON'T "HARRISON BERGERON" DAYZ!!!

[trev186 389]

Maybe I'm the only one picking up on this, but here's my spin on why the FEW, OFFICIAL, servers are likely going to me made 1pp only.  With the vast majority of players who prefer 3pp wall peeking, 360 noscope #yolo, using the official servers as nothing more than mostly empty stash worlds, the official servers became pretty useless for general play.

 

When I first started playing the game, I gravitated towards the vanilla experience of the official servers because I wanted to be sure I started off learning how to play the game I bought, as it was intended to be played by the developers.  I didn't even notice there was a 3pp option until I started meeting other players who ask me about what's on the other side of walls.  (I tell them "IDK, how am I supposed to see through a damn wall")  And thus, my 3pp cherry having been broken, I was doomed to walk the earth for months, with the likes of KOSers and "a lot" of people with medical concerns preventing them from enjoying the game as completely and comfortably as they should.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the purpose of making the FEW OFFICIAL servers 1pp, is an effort to forcibly separate the 3pp PVP crowd from being able to use these vanilla servers as pirates' coves, in which they safely stash all of their stolen, farmed, and duped gear, so they can perform a dimensional shift and easily re-arm every time they die.

 

Of course this still means that people who play 1pp will be able to use these vanilla servers as stash points, but with such a low population, the troubles resulting from this should be negligible.  It will also be a great way to introduce lone players to the world of DayZ, before they become corrupted by peeking over walls, and never want to turn back.

 

Just to toss this out there, I might just be getting better at the game, but it seems like since I have switched back to 1pp, I've been surviving more encounters.  I've also been doing combat more legitimately, rather than running up to an outside wall, and panning my camera to direct sniper fire 'through the walls' at the defenseless target inside.  I understand the whole "medical condition prevents me from using 1pp" argument, but I also know that deaf people don't usually enjoy concerts, and that flashing lights in video games can prevent some people prone to seizures from playing. 

 

I hate to get back into this contentious debate, but just because a large number of people like something a certain way, does not make it right.   It is the "bandwagon fallacy."  McDonalds sells a hell of a lot of hamburgers, but nobody is going to be able to convince me that they are the best food available just because a large number of people eat them.  For the large part, humans are lazy, selfish, morons, and we need to constantly fight ourselves to keep from settling into bad habits.

 

So here's my compromise:  3pp allowed to be used client side, but only with a doctor's note. lol    DON'T "HARRISON BERGERON" DAYZ!!!

 

Few official servers ? I am pretty sure the vast majority of the current servers are official...

 

Also I know we call this alpha but I highly doubt come full release we see this game  as popular as it was 2 years ago when early access first opened so I would expect server count to decline....now if they are gonna make fewer official servers that would make sense to me...

 

On the other hand I have never been a believer in the private hive mind set and don't want to be pigeon holed into playing on one just cause it is 3pp...

 

If the 1pp exp was improving I would not be as standoffish but what I have seen over the past couple years playing this game is the 1pp exp has become more painful for me....now everything looks like a mirage and the constant bobbing up and down makes me sea sick after awhile....half the time when I go to trun everything becomes a blur as if I were driving a Nascar at 100 plus Mph...

 

no hate for 1pp immersion in fact I love them but....

 

1pp used to be fun once i got over the bobbing but the "new features" added for immersion have made such that after 15 mins my head and eyes hurt and I feel sea sick (I dont even get motion sickness on a boat). 

 

Either allow both modes Or allow only one...on both private and public servers..

 

Ultimately seems like a money grab to inspire more people to rent private servers to fulfill the demand that most the player base wants pandered off as improving immersion and making purists happy but really just hopping for more people to rent private servers to fill the demand and bring in more cash all while leaving the 1pp public players with less people to play with. There are alternatives and this game isn't new....taking away large features wont necessarily keep the player base active.

 

One final thing with declining active servers u forget that some of us in the world get the short end of the ping stick...i live in CA it is a struggle to find high pop privately owened servers with a ping under 100

 

often i am stuck turning to servers on the east coast where my ping will spike over 200...

 

in most other fps games i play a ping over 100 is auto kicked...

 

it puts me at a disadvantage and the loss of say public 3pp servers based out of CA further removes an option...and i may not be able to just join a convenient 3pp server on a private hive.

Edited December 4, 2015 by trev186

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

The official dayz servers are the free servers given to B I by the server providers , when they rent out  a number of servers they have to give B I a free server and the free server is called a official dayz server, a rented server can be called any thing the renter wants to name it, and to make the server 1st or 3rd person .

[emuthreat 2837]

Few official servers ? I am pretty sure the vast majority of the current servers are official...  Only the servers with a region code and numeric designator are the official servers, they are many, but not a majority.

 

Also I know we call this alpha but I highly doubt come full release we see this game  as popular as it was 2 years ago when early access first opened so I would expect server count to decline....now if they are gonna make fewer official servers that would make sense to me...  Baseless speculation, and incorrect if you consider that BI has not, and likely will not be doing any advertising until the final release date is within spitting distance.

 

On the other hand I have never been a believer in the private hive mind set and don't want to be pigeon holed into playing on one just cause it is 3pp...  As the 1pp players currently are...

 

If the 1pp exp was improving I would not be as standoffish but what I have seen over the past couple years playing this game is the 1pp exp has become more painful for me....now everything looks like a mirage and the constant bobbing up and down makes me sea sick after awhile....half the time when I go to trun everything becomes a blur as if I were driving a Nascar at 100 plus Mph...  Turn off post-processing; I can't even stand it in 3pp.

 

no hate for 1pp immersion in fact I love them but....

 

1pp used to be fun once i got over the bobbing but the "new features" added for immersion have made such that after 15 mins my head and eyes hurt and I feel sea sick (I dont even get motion sickness on a boat). 

 

Either allow both modes Or allow only one...on both private and public servers..

 

Ultimately seems like a money grab to inspire more people to rent private servers to fulfill the demand that most the player base wants pandered off as improving immersion and making purists happy but really just hopping for more people to rent private servers to fill the demand and bring in more cash all while leaving the 1pp public players with less people to play with. There are alternatives and this game isn't new....taking away large features wont necessarily keep the player base active.

 

One final thing with declining active servers u forget that some of us in the world get the short end of the ping stick...i live in CA it is a struggle to find high pop privately owened servers with a ping under 100

 

often i am stuck turning to servers on the east coast where my ping will spike over 200...

 

in most other fps games i play a ping over 100 is auto kicked...

 

it puts me at a disadvantage and the loss of say public 3pp servers based out of CA further removes an option...and i may not be able to just join a convenient 3pp server on a private hive.

I really don't think it is going to seriously put anybody out by making the official servers 1pp.  Mostly the people who will be negatively affected, would be those with conditions that make 1pp visually unbearable; and they will only have to learn a bit more about how to select 3pp servers on their first day playing.

 

If you can acknowledge these two basic premises, it will be much easier to see that 1pp should be the "default" state of the game.

 

Premise one:  DayZ is an open-world sandbox survival game, in which player interactions primarily drive the play experience.

 

Premise two:  3pp can be exploited to covertly detect other players, without exposing ones self to detection; thus unbalancing player interactions.

 

If neither of my two premises can be factually denied, then it follows that 3pp is unsuitable for competitive play, and that 1pp should be the standard default perspective used.  I'm not saying that 3pp should be banned, but it should definitely not be the standard used by the majority of streamers and e-sports events once the game reaches its 1.0 release.

 

That being said, 1pp definitely needs some stance and PP adjustments, which will hopefully come along soon with the new player controller.

[Inception. 9443]

3PP is not DayZ.

 

Whilst I personally prefer 1st-person over 3rd-person, I must disagree with you there. Was 3rd-person not a feature in the original Mod from the very beginning? 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Whilst I personally prefer 1st-person over 3rd-person, I must disagree with you there. Was 3rd-person not a feature in the original Mod from the very beginning? 

 

 

Someone stated this more eloquently once but it's been said that 3PP was considered held over from ARMA II and left in because some people wanted it. I forgot what they cited to back it up at the time.

 

If you notice the tenor of how the devs talk about 1PP in the status reports and tweets (on and off for some months now), you get the sense they are implying that 1PP is how DayZ was always intended.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Whilst I personally prefer 1st-person over 3rd-person, I must disagree with you there. Was 3rd-person not a feature in the original Mod from the very beginning? 

Only Rocket or someone with a good memory could say did the first servers allow 3rd person. It's a difficulty option in Arma. Was usually disabled within hardcore communities and PVP servers. Many new people that came with DayZ at the beginning didn't even knew that it existed until they were told :D

[Espa 711]

Personally, I like 1PP over 3PP in terms of combat because I think it makes things much much more realistic to be controlling from eyeview and not have a ridiculous amount of awareness.

 

Also, I really do not care for 3PP's ability of exploiting, by turning the camera and seeing around walls or over fences and such. It has way too much tactical advantage in my opinion.

 

My only suggestion is to zoom in 3PP's perspective so that it cannot be abused in such a way. Put the camera near the shoulder of the character, much like Leon's perspective in Resident Evil 6.