What if we removed the crosshair?

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Couple of points to note:

Some pro's

• Possible that removing crosshair support entirely would add in preventing some ESP hacks
  
• Require an aimed shot to be made for any form of accuracy
  

Some con's

• Greatly increases the base difficulty of engagement (new players especially)
  
• Reduces server choice if not provided as an option
  

Please discuss.

Crosshair's aren't really unrealistic. That is Shacktac's POV. They say that IRL you pretty much know where your pointing your gun.

Maybe a ultra basic dot would be good. The current crosshair is too precise.

Another option would be a large circle. This is less precise than a dot and represents that you are aiming in the general vicinity of the circle.

Look at it like third person. Third person is "unrealistic". But IRL you know what your body is doing. That is why there is third person, you can see what you would know IRL.

IRL you would kind of know where you were aiming and that should be represented.

While it might not be "realistic" it think it is authentic.

[10Lives (DayZ) 5]

Don't matter for me, only thing I use the crosshair for is the hatchet. Otherwise it's 1st person gunfights.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Remove it please.

What is your reasoning?

[Hoj0 (DayZ) 31]

please do, per your words, the game needs to be authentic, and having to actually aim down your sites adds an additional layer of realism. I highly support it.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

keep it because some players are lazy and not interested in working hard to improve their overall gameplay and they deserve to be good too, let's have a game where lack of skill is no obstacle to success

:facepalm: I don't think crosshairs will ruin the games authenticity or difficulty. There are so many things in DayZ that don't evolve fighting and make the game difficult.

[guyver1 70]

Yes, but should your personal preference dictate the options available to everyone? That's what I'm getting at. Like I said, my personal choice is no crosshairs, but that shouldn't be the be-all-end-all.

Should the Devs personal preferences dictate the options available to everyone?

Yes they should, because that's how games are made.

At some point, someone's decision is going to dictate how a game mechanic/option/setting is going to affect EVERYONE.......

[m.w. vindicator 880]

I'm all for removing it if it makes for a hack-free experience.

They is no such thing as a hack free experience in online play. People will always find ways.

There is however, a 99% hack free experience.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

Choice, Let us have a choice, Perhaps a server side option?

I am not a killer, I don't need a cross hair, however it does give me line of sight direction. If you were going to introduce more physical positions which would offer quicker ready action positions then you could take them away.

Lets be honest, IRL there is no magical floating coss hair, And by taking it away your sending a message of pvp not being the end all, be all. It may help with survival more.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

We wouldn't be delaying them, we would be forcing them to use a different method that might be arguably more difficult.

As noted above, removing them would go in line with the removal of essentially all the other UI elements (such as ammo count etc...).

Removing most UI would be good. ACE 2 already removed ammo count and I like that. In ACE there is a text description of the mag's weight.

I think that the crosshair should be a static circle in the center of the screen. It shouldn't follow your gun. All it should represent is where you "think" your aiming. This would allow the crosshair to be used for actions like opening doors and would make it impossible to hit anything at range without ADS.

The maximum range that the crosshair should be vaguely useful for shooting should be about ~30-50 meters.

[-Gews- 7443]

I'd be happy to see it go.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

hi,

I play without crosshair since ofp. When you are used to it, you know where is the center. If you train to fire from the hipe in the editor you can hit target with good accuracy at 25-30m without problem very quickly. It is the same to loot stuff you know where is the center so you find the object you want to pick up or the ladder you want to climb very easily. It's just a question of training.

As for the new players problem, DayZ is a survival simulation, it means that there's a learning curve. People are too used to Hollywood style gameplay where the player have instant fun since the game do things for them. Let's come back to real skill where player sucks at start and is frustrated because he sucks and then learn how to play and becomes skilled.

EDIT: I agree that the open/close gate addAction needs to be fixed.

cya.

Nikiller.

I do really like the idea of an intense learning curve that should punish new players. Even the mod's veterans should have to face a learning curve.

No crosshair would help this.

I still feel like a crosshair is authentic.

[guyver1 70]

Removing most UI would be good. ACE 2 already removed ammo count and I like that. In ACE there is a text description of the mag's weight.

I think that the crosshair should be a static circle in the center of the screen. It shouldn't follow your gun. All it should represent is where you "think" your aiming. This would allow the crosshair to be used for actions like opening doors and would make it impossible to hit anything at range without ADS.

The maximum range that the crosshair should be vaguely useful for shooting should be about ~30-50 meters.

Sorry but I cannot stand large reticules in games. It obstructs my view and just annoys the shit out of me.

My normal crosshair for the past 13 years or so has been a dot. Console type 'heres a large circle, if your enemy is in this circle, you're going to hit him' reticules were just put in to make aiming easier for console gamepads with the aid of autoaim.

This is a PC game, not a console game.

I'm all for 'choice', but I would be happy if the devs choice was to remove it

DayZ is supposed to be hard and unforgiving, where satisfaction and pleasure comes from hard work and slog, you know, just like in real life...

[boneboys 7988]

Personally I'm for removing crosshairs.

Many non hardcore players use crosshairs and are uncomfortable without.

If it helps to reduce the possibilty of hacks even the most lightweight, I'm for removing.

Does this mean that dead point sway and bob will also be fixed / hard set ?

A lot of players have trouble with this, another good reason for it to be removed.

Two out of three for removing.

Thanks.

[aksuduud 64]

I have always considered crosshairs a thing of the past when FPSes didnt allow you to aim with the weapons actual sights. Remove them.

[amlaborde@windstream.net 94]

People can still figure out exactly where it is centered. Then they would simply place a piece of tape to have it as their crosshair... How about just giving us the option to turn it on or off? Or even server specific.

[AllMightyKnox 218]

Please do not remove it, Have it as option instead. Give the players a chance if they want a crosshair & those who don't can disable it. I can't see myself playing w/ out it. LOL

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Sorry but I cannot stand large reticules in games. It obstructs my view and just annoys the shit out of me.

My normal crosshair for the past 13 years or so has been a dot. Console type 'heres a large circle, if your enemy is in this circle, you're going to hit him' reticules were just put in to make aiming easier for console gamepads with the aid of autoaim.

This is a PC game, not a console game.

I'm all for 'choice', but I would be happy if the devs choice was to remove it

DayZ is supposed to be hard and unforgiving, where satisfaction and pleasure comes from hard work and slog, you know, just like in real life...

I never suggested aim assist. lol

I am thinking a faint white circle. Some thing very unobtrusive is key.

[catweazle (DayZ) 28]

For the sake of realism I would remove it.

Maybe some LaserPointers that you can Duct-Tape to your weapon ?...ok you would have to recalibrate again after each shot... <_<

[guyver1 70]

I never suggested aim assist. lol

I am thinking a faint white circle. Some thing very unobtrusive is key.

No no, I never said you did.

I was stating 'why' large reticules were first introduced in FPS'ers on consoles, it was to help gamepad users to aim. The reticule was used in conjunction with software 'autoaim' built in to the games

[Rastamaus 323]

if the aim of the standalone is to create an immersive and realistic survival simulator then it's a no-brainer.

crosshair - in the bin you go

[Rage VG 4033]

Should the Devs personal preferences dictate the options available to everyone?

No. Besides the fact rocket has said in the past that he's going to go with what he feels would be interesting for the mod, in general, a change to the game, ANY game, should be agreeable to the majority of the community. This is what this thread is all about; finding out what that is and why. Of course, we are talking about DayZ however, and rocket has made it well aware that he's gonna add what he feels would work. And I've yet to find an issue with that; there's been no changes that I can't get behind to some degree.

At some point, someone's decision is going to dictate how a game mechanic/option/setting is going to affect EVERYONE.......

Exactly. So obviously they'd want to make the decision that satisfies the most people. Obviously the opinion of one would be illogical to follow over the opinion of many.

This is why I disagreed with his reasoning over mine; he was saying how he played and how it never affected him, but I had my scope on everybody.

[NonovUrbizniz (DayZ) 137]

Nope the crosshair is placed based on the orientation of your weapon as it moves around in your hands, so it moves around quite a lot.

With the 2 bar/dot setup right now it's WAY TOO EASY to know EXACTLY where your bullet is going to go in 3rd person... not realistic at all IMO. I shoot field trap a lot which is drastically different stations and targets moving at different speeds and directions... I'm very used to shooting moving targets in real life and the crosshairs the way they're work now make it literally easier to shoot in 3rd than scope view.... If I've just come out of a run If I'm over 200m the sway in scope view is too drastic to keep the target in view, if I'm under 200m it's over magnified... BUT in 3rd I can just watch the center dot's sway and with a little bit of practice predicting it's movements you just shoot when the dot sways over the target and they go down... there is VERY VERY minor adjustments needed for distance and the speed of the sway of your center dot... but it's basically cheating IMO.

shouldn't be an issue with people marking the screen then unless they work out a small circle where the weapon could fire

100pct true, LOTS of Arma guys do this already anyway even with CH on... the center mark is a MUCH better reference in 3rd person but not as predictive as to where the bullet will actually fall... so it's only an issue if the person isn't recovering from a run... and even then it's really an individual thing, I have no problem gauging it by eye w/o marks... but the CH's make shooting cake after having run.

I think he means a melee weapon. How do you aim those things.. They do not have sights...

Frankly the circle CH on the melee weapons are so inaccurate that I never even look at where they are pointed, THAT is something the center screen mark is AMAZING for, Fixed screen mark and a hatchet make for killer accuracy

So.. we are looking at how crosshairs will work in the game now... NIICE! :P

They've been pretty clear from the onset that the client side would not be quite so freely trusted in the SA... THANK GOD.

If everything (spread, recoil, breath etc.) was calculated server-side - wouldn't that mean a lot of lag?

I trust hosting companies to have the most upgraded hardware a LOT more than I trust client side... I"m playing the mod on a AMD Phenom 2.5ghz dual core lol... I don't even know if it will run the SA.

I want to say get rid of it but I'm worried about the hatchet. It can be incredibly awkward to use without CH, although maybe you've got it working better now? IDK...

As I stated above I think the only CH that isn't an aid at all is the melee one... it jumps all over you can't strike based on where it's placed like you can with the bar/dot gun CH

I'm on board for that, hate the crosshair because of the as50ers at close range annoy me. :P

100pct agreed, if ONLY for that and the M107,, NO ONE is going to hip fire those lol.

Just out of curiosity I pulled up dayz commander and sorted the servers based on crosshair usage. Out of 5759 servers 1615 are running with the option turned OFF. 4144 have the option turned ON. Out of same amount 277 have 3rd person OFF and 5482 have it ON. To my knowledge there isnt a way to see how much traffic the servers get in a day verses the other. But based on choice that can be made now, the people setting up the servers are turning the option ON.

Just food for thought.

Please ignore my spelling.

I just looked up on iTunes, Justin Bieber is selling WAY more tracks than Pink Floyd... I think Waters should just stop touring...

Sorry couldn't resist.... I think that CH should MAYBE be an option on Regular servers ONLY... Veteran should not allow for NP or CH PERIOD.

Damn . . .I couldn't post if I tried to read every post.

Difficult never seemed to slow hackers/scritpers down much. I suspect it would only be a temporary fix. A circle crosshair or something with a large margin of error may be the best compromise. Gone by default but let the server have the choice. I also like the idea of a time limit but it should be extended for 7 days worth of playing time not, bought the game on tuesday, Grandma goes in the hospital and you get a total of 4 hours play time then it's gone.

I see it as a balance between new players being turned off of the game and the difficulty it would bring to scripters. Hard to judge not having these stats to go by.

Personally, I'd like to see them gone. It would separate the desirability of some guns. Better in game sites=more desirable. Bizon and AK-74 could kiss my ass. :)

See this is why I love different perspectives... for me, I'd be WAY more likely to carry a non-scoped rifle with CH removed... nothing worse that when you go into scope view out of habit when a line of zombies is under 100m from you... with CH they drop like flies... again totally unrealistic IMO...

I'm good at shooting moving targets in real life, but there is no way i'm going to take down 5 approaching targets in under 30m from the hip with the accuracy I can in game...

As it is if you look at your character model in 3rd person you can see how the gun is swaying in hand anyway....

++++

Lastly and semi-separate..

I REALLY REALLY think that the dual view scope sighting is HUGELY important... You simply do not lose you entire field of view when you're shooting a scoped rifle, most people have both eyes open and can change focus in the EXACT same way you would have to on screen... Scope view with peripheral view is a MUCH more important issue IMO...

While the no CH might stop some hacking I think a LOT more of my hopes are pinned on server side control than game features for game security.

OH... if that wasn't clear... take them out for all difficulties or allow them ONLY in Regular servers IMO.

Your mod F'ing rocks, I had given up hope on PC gaming 10 years ago... still played but not loving it or passionately. I now mod two servers, and am producing YouTube videos..

Seriously man if you die tomorrow don't die happy what you've done is IMO the most important evolution for video gaming since free look. Don't let the stress and asshats ruin so much as a drop of pride I hope you feel. Good on ya man!

[m.w. vindicator 880]

No no, I never said you did.

I was stating 'why' large reticules were first introduced in FPS'ers on consoles, it was to help gamepad users to aim. The reticule was used in conjunction with software 'autoaim' built in to the games

Sorry that I misunderstood you. But I still think there should be some sort of crosshair. Whether it is a dot or circle isn't that important, yet.

[SmashT 10907]

Please do not remove it, Have it as option instead. Give the players a chance if they want a crosshair & those who don't can disable it. I can't see myself playing w/ out it. LOL

Why?

[amazed 17]

I find it very important to hinder the creation of hacks as much as possible but I also like the idea of having choices such as crosshair or non-crosshair servers.

Would a programmer need to write two different applications for the same effect if a server either ran crosshair or non-crosshair?

Edited January 21, 2013 by ZuluActual