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mugost

I know, but be patient.

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Posted (edited)

Well... this game is subject for a lot of aggression related frustrations and yes... there is a lot of bugs - ranging from annoying to down right stupid, but remember we have not reached the integer version of game, yet – which some see as another problem (2013, say no more).

BUT, to start with the last… it’s also stupid that players primarily base there negative review on how many hours developers put into the project. Because, the develop-timeline has nothing to do with the quality of game, you are just frustrated and can’t distinguish ‘stercore’ from chocolate... result is CAPS and angry emojis.
Furthermore, from a background(20+ years) within development, both as project-manager, concept-developer and code-monkey, I can tell you that while 5 years development is a long time, it’s not uncommon – the difference is that, most times, company’s will first go public at a later stage in development.

When it come to bugs and glitches. As long as debugging is ongoing and developer seriously include players and there feedback… we can’t complain or base our review on what’s not working, at this early stage.

In my opinion, it seems messy and some out of control, so I believe that the DayZ team needs a solid project-model and, if they even got it, a better system/team for quality-assurance. Without these, I’m afraid that we have wasted our money on a product that never gets above version 0.999999.

In the end.
The key-sentence is “Early access” - cut to the bone, you are not there to play, you are there to fulfill as task so you one day can play a flawless game.
To get comments in advance, the payment… when you buy a game in any pre-public or early access, it’s an investment in a product you believe in, return comes at release, in the form of a “free” game.

Edited by mugost
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, mugost said:

Well... this game is subject for a lot of aggression related frustrations and yes... there is a lot of bugs - ranging from annoying to down right stupid, but remember we have not reached the integer version of game, yet – which some see as another problem (2013, say no more).

BUT, to start with the last… it’s also stupid that players primarily base there negative review on how many hours developers put into the project. Because, the develop-timeline has nothing to do with the quality of game, you are just frustrated and can’t distinguish ‘stercore’ from chocolate... result is CAPS and angry emojis.
Furthermore, from a background(20+ years) within development, both as project-manager, concept-developer and code-monkey, I can tell you that while 5 years development is a long time, it’s not uncommon – the difference is that, most times, company’s will first go public at a later stage in development.

When it come to bugs and glitches. As long as debugging is ongoing and developer seriously include players and there feedback… we can’t complain or base our review on what’s not working, at this early stage.

In my opinion, it seems messy and some out of control, so I believe that the DayZ team needs a solid project-model and, if they even got it, a better system/team for quality-assurance. Without these, I’m afraid that we have wasted our money on a product that never gets above version 0.999999.

In the end.
The key-sentence is “Early access” - cut to the bone, you are not there to play, you are there to fulfill as task so you one day can play a flawless game.
To get comments in advance, the payment… when you buy a game in any pre-public or early access, it’s an investment in a product you believe in, return comes at release, in the form of a “free” game.

I hate these "I'm a game developer, blah, blah, blah" posts. Devs don't seem to understand gamers at all. 

The average gamer doesn't care about how much work goes into a game and people who want to sell games need to understand that. That's why you should never have the boffins who make games do the marketing. 

It's taken too long. Two years in and "we've taken your money but have decided we can't or won't actually make the game as we are making a new engine" - thanks for that. 

The project has been mismanaged - Years wasted with Hicks arguing about turning it into a pure survival sim against what the average gamer wanted which was "zombies and bandits" type of a game. Think how huge The Walking Dead was at the time?  Talk about failing to stay on board with that.  In the meantime nothing happens just dwindling players and  stupid loot. Other studios get it and start making rivals to DayZ. 

Five years on and BI announce a new game,  yes its made with a different team to DayZ but nobody is going to get that. All people are going to see is "Why are they making a new PUBG clone when we already have one in DayZ and DayZ was here before PUBG"? 

BI playing catch up even though they had a game there all along.

Just look at the comments on Steam and those on Youtube for the game. You might think they are morons but they are the people who actually buy games and pay the wages. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by forteantimes23

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Posted (edited)

I have never claimed to be a game-developer, that statement is on you. I’m also a gamer and have been for 35+ years. I believe that all in all makes your entire sentence invalid?

To clarify, the closest I’ve been to develop games is various open source and commercial library’s that at some point have been included in games.
But, besides a few exceptions, I’ve worked in the medicinal industry(injection, factory, turn-key solutions), I don’t know you but expect that you can imagine what goes into and the demands for developing such system.

You got a point about marketing, common mistake for venture entrepreneurs, for a number of reasons. But it’s possible, seen it done to more or less success, but it needs a very specific plan and have high demands to community.

The average gamer should care, we do with other products and services – we pay our electrician(for one) pr. hour? But anyway, your statement a bit contradictory….  Average don’t care about how much work, but still allow them to complain about time? Logical, then the only problem is that game was announced too early? Well, try forget it then and wait for release.

For the rest, both before and after edit, it seems like you agree.

Edited by mugost
deleted irrelevant text.
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Posted (edited)
On 28-7-2018 at 5:21 PM, forteantimes23 said:

I hate these "I'm a game developer, blah, blah, blah" posts. Devs don't seem to understand gamers at all. 

The average gamer doesn't care about how much work goes into a game and people who want to sell games need to understand that. That's why you should never have the boffins who make games do the marketing. 

It's taken too long. Two years in and "we've taken your money but have decided we can't or won't actually make the game as we are making a new engine" - thanks for that. 

The project has been mismanaged - Years wasted with Hicks arguing about turning it into a pure survival sim against what the average gamer wanted which was "zombies and bandits" type of a game. Think how huge The Walking Dead was at the time?  Talk about failing to stay on board with that.  In the meantime nothing happens just dwindling players and  stupid loot. Other studios get it and start making rivals to DayZ. 

Five years on and BI announce a new game,  yes its made with a different team to DayZ but nobody is going to get that. All people are going to see is "Why are they making a new PUBG clone when we already have one in DayZ and DayZ was here before PUBG"? 

BI playing catch up even though they had a game there all along.

Just look at the comments on Steam and those on Youtube for the game. You might think they are morons but they are the people who actually buy games and pay the wages. 

 

 

 

 

I do not agree. It is fine if a gamer does not care about game development, but then also don't buy an Early Access game that is in actual development and then start to complain.

Edited by amadieus
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Thanks for the 10,000th thread on the topic. Early access is the bane of game development. You give people the opportunity to bitch and they will bitch. 

I myself enjoy seeing and experiencing the rough and rocky road of game development.... but the "gimme gimme" crowd is not built for it. 

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It is reasonable to start being "where is it" after so much time and hope.... 

SCUM will give a run for the money, and I believe that is what is causing the wait at this very moment. 

I only regret not ever experiencing the dayz mod at its time, the time when the love was found. And it has been lost now, quite obviously. 

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Posted (edited)

People complaining about people complaining is a problem too. Reviews and feedback exist for a reason. If someone paid for something and is not happy with it they have the right to complain as much as they want. If there is a lot of people complaining about something it's a reminder to the devs that this problem exists and needs to be addressed. So what if there's been lots of people complaining about the same thing? Everyone can complain about what they don't like, and if there's 100 people complaining about the same thing then that means it's a big issue - and you should not tell them to  stop complaining just because "it's already been complained about in the past".  And these aren't even dumb or trollish complaints. I am patient with the devs and the game and I have no problem waiting for them to finish the game, but I'm not blinded like some people here. There is A LOT to complain about, and it's understandable why a lot of people complain and say the game is dead etc. You obviously have some people whose complaints are done without any research, but those aren't any less valuable. Let's say someone pays for the game, plays it, sees how broken and unplayable it is, then leaves the game for 3-4 years, doesn't keep track of any of the status reports and the dev updates, just forgets about this game. Then comes back after 4 years to see that it's still a broken mess just like it was 4 years ago. What do they do? They complain about it and it's understandable. Even though they haven't done any research on the current state of the game and what the devs have to say, their complaint is valid and it shows what the people who aren't regularly following the forums think about the game. Complaining should not be discouraged. If you do that's basically dictatorship.

With that being said, what I'm disappointed in with the devs is that they can't even make a tiny update to fix the broken hunger and thirst system in 0.63. It currently makes the game not enjoyable because you die from starvation and hunger WAY too fast and a lot of people complained about it saying that it's unplayable because of this one small thing. How much time would it take to make this fix? 5 minutes? It's just a matter of changing some number values. The update would be like 1mb but it would allow us to actually enjoy the game because we wouldn't have to eat and drink every 5 minutes. But instead we will have to wait months until another update just so this tiny thing gets fixed. This isn't the first time this is happening, there's been plenty of tiny things that made the game unplayable that could be fixed in literally 5 minutes with a tiny update, but they apparently can't take 5 minutes out of their super busy 8 months to make a tiny update to fix a tiny issue that single handedly ruins the game.

Edited by Saylor Twift
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1 hour ago, Saylor Twift said:

People complaining about people complaining is a problem too. Reviews and feedback exist for a reason. If someone paid for something and is not happy with it they have the right to complain as much as they want. If there is a lot of people complaining about something it's a reminder to the devs that this problem exists and needs to be addressed. So what if there's been lots of people complaining about the same thing? Everyone can complain about what they don't like, and if there's 100 people complaining about the same thing then that means it's a big issue - and you should not tell them to  stop complaining just because "it's already been complained about in the past".  And these aren't even dumb or trollish complaints. I am patient with the devs and the game and I have no problem waiting for them to finish the game, but I'm not blinded like some people here. There is A LOT to complain about, and it's understandable why a lot of people complain and say the game is dead etc. You obviously have some people whose complaints are done without any research, but those aren't any less valuable. Let's say someone pays for the game, plays it, sees how broken and unplayable it is, then leaves the game for 3-4 years, doesn't keep track of any of the status reports and the dev updates, just forgets about this game. Then comes back after 4 years to see that it's still a broken mess just like it was 4 years ago. What do they do? They complain about it and it's understandable. Even though they haven't done any research on the current state of the game and what the devs have to say, their complaint is valid and it shows what the people who aren't regularly following the forums think about the game. Complaining should not be discouraged. If you do that's basically dictatorship.

With that being said, what I'm disappointed in with the devs is that they can't even make a tiny update to fix the broken hunger and thirst system in 0.63. It currently makes the game not enjoyable because you die from starvation and hunger WAY too fast and a lot of people complained about it saying that it's unplayable because of this one small thing. How much time would it take to make this fix? 5 minutes? It's just a matter of changing some number values. The update would be like 1mb but it would allow us to actually enjoy the game because we wouldn't have to eat and drink every 5 minutes. But instead we will have to wait months until another update just so this tiny thing gets fixed. This isn't the first time this is happening, there's been plenty of tiny things that made the game unplayable that could be fixed in literally 5 minutes with a tiny update, but they apparently can't take 5 minutes out of their super busy 8 months to make a tiny update to fix a tiny issue that single handedly ruins the game.

If you want a playable experience you need to go to stable/0.62, that's what it's there for, how hard is that to understand? That said, I do not recognize your troubles with dehydration and starvation in 0.63, only challenge is when you spawn in but there are plenty of apples and water to get you fed and hydrated, once achieved you can go without eating and drinking for a pretty long time.

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3 hours ago, Saylor Twift said:

Complaining should not be discouraged. If you do that's basically dictatorship.

Hahaha.

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I know it has been up before :/ when looking around for new DayZ stuff(video, news etc.) and you get bombarded with all the negative and it's keeps, daily, coming and as is, they scream louder.

It's not that complaining is a bad thing (without we get stagnation, so yes, it should be encouraged) but when the base for complain is invalid or feelings in disguise, it has no other function than negatives.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, nl said:

If you want a playable experience you need to go to stable/0.62, that's what it's there for, how hard is that to understand? That said, I do not recognize your troubles with dehydration and starvation in 0.63, only challenge is when you spawn in but there are plenty of apples and water to get you fed and hydrated, once achieved you can go without eating and drinking for a pretty long time.

Yeah because 0.62 doesn't have the same bugs and the same broken mechanics/problems that the game always had. I'm not even going to list all the things that are still as broken as they were since the beginning of the early access, we've already heard that hundreds of times. To someone who comes back to 0.62 after having a break for years and sees the state of the game there is an understandable reason to complain. You can't expect everyone to follow every single status report. Most of the people who bought DayZ never even came to the forums once. They bought the game, they saw it was broken so they gave it time (many years), they came back, saw that it has the same problems and is just as glitchy and choppy as it was back then, so they complain. Your logic to me is like someone comes to a restaurant, gets a bad meal so they give it a negative review, but your defense is "but our chef said there will be big improvements soon and gave us pictures of his upcoming new dishes so it's ok". That's great but why should the customer give a shit? He rates what he got at that time. And his review should be taken into consideration. Yes we've all heard the complaints hundreds of times and we KNOW what is wrong with DayZ and we know what needs to be fixed, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the right to continue complaining about it.

And don't pretend like there is no reason to complain, that's just being blinded. The development of the game is very slow and we get very few updates, last update took 8 months just to get it on the stress test if I remember correctly. Do I have a problem with it? No, I can patiently wait years more because I trust the devs and believe it will be a good game. Is it a valid reason to complain for other people? Yes. The amount of negative reviews and complaints is what is expected when you do an early access on a game with an engine that makes it painfully difficult to add new stuff and improvements, and then decide to rework the engine. The devs knew it will take a long ass time, and that this will cause many negative reviews. You knew what you were getting into. You can't take years to fix basic features like climbing ladders or clipping through doors, and expect people not to complain.

 

 

Edited by Saylor Twift

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The problem with your logic is that DayZ isn't a game. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/29/2018 at 1:52 AM, Saylor Twift said:

It currently makes the game not enjoyable because you die from starvation and hunger WAY too fast and a lot of people complained about it saying that it's unplayable because of this one small thing

Funny thing about that hunger and thirst system, is that it seems to be an issue more of players' learning curve, rather than the values.  Once you get over that challenging first hour in which you spawn in desperately hungry and thirsty it becomes a pretty easily maintainable value  as long as one remembers to continue eating after no longer painfully hungry.

Where some people see the game as broken and completely unplayable, others learn to persevere and adapt to the new conditions.  I don't much care for the new combat system, as it forces all of the control of weapons onto the mouse hand, or requires one to awkwardly use the left shift key to use a scope, but there is little I can do to change it; and try as I might, pressing the space bar when I see another player keeps ending poorly for me.

At this point in the game, anybody coming here expecting anything other than to see how the sausage is being made, has made an error in judgement. That's not to say nobody has a right to be upset, or critical of how things are going, but at least know that it is par for the course...

Edited by emuthreat
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And what if the devs do what people ask but people change their minds?

https://forums.dayz.com/topic/234636-what-is-stopping-the-devs-from-upping-the-difficulty/?tab=comments#comment-2353096

The devs can not and should not listen to everything they read. They have an internal roadmap to follow. And this goal will never offer justice to all. Many things about discomfort are small things, usually just "balance things". but adjusting these will be pointless before everything around it is really stable.

As an example: Ok, they reduce the thirst / energy consumption (you could also increase the amount of food to accomplish the same, or could give the food a lot more calories, all things balance, table values).

That would mean that we need much less time for survival. That means we have much more time for what? yes for what .... for everything that is not in the game yet? Again there will be complaints ... it is boring. Or you get used to the "Garden of Eden" and will fall into the deep end when "features and influences" that all come into play once again difficult to make (diseases, moisture, heat, cold and so on.) Suddenly, you'll have the free time which had previously been magnified lost again. A new wave of complaints will begin.

I am convinced that the devs know many complaints, but they deliberately do not react because things are going to change that they will solve themselves.

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22 hours ago, Parazight said:

The problem with your logic is that DayZ isn't a game. 

It sure is a game bud . An early access game in beta - can we please stop referring it as “not a game” because despite what the devs keep repeating it IS A GAME . Any other game in this state refers to itself as a game , so please , let’s stop this madness before you people get too drunk on your own fumes .

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1 hour ago, blackberrygoo said:

An early access game in beta

Puts fingers in ears. **ALPHAALPHAALPHAALPHAALPHAALPHAALPHAALPHAALPHAALPHA**

Glad I could clear that up for you.

But seriously dude, .63 started out as a barebones version, missing more than half of all the planned content.  And it is still missing a large portion of the content.  If anything, you could call .62 a dead-end Beta version, but .63 is very much an alpha; not so much of a game, as a prototype for the game at this point.
If you made a mod, and pulled out 2/3 of all assets and then tried to release it as a game, you'd be laughed at.

I haven't played for weeks.  Might pop back in to see where things are at.  But without cooking pots and stoves, or any persistence, I would describe the gameplay value as little to none.  Not a game.

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1 hour ago, blackberrygoo said:

It sure is a game bud . An early access game in beta - can we please stop referring it as “not a game” because despite what the devs keep repeating it IS A GAME . Any other game in this state refers to itself as a game , so please , let’s stop this madness before you people get too drunk on your own fumes .

Semantics. 

At the end of the day, it's not a finished product.  And it's not in beta yet, despite how impatient people are.  And you come off as one of the most impatient people on these forums.

Look at Saylor's ridiculous simile about how a patron received a meal and then gave a bad review.  Okay, a served meal is a finished product.  DayZ is not finished in any way.  It has not been served up.  It's still roasting in the pot.  I realize that people here are hungry.  And it's fine if people lament about how their tummy hurts (I guess) because they're hungry for playing the title.  Fucking first world problems right there.

Yes, stop the madness.  The madness of simply saying "this is taking too long", based on nothing.  Maybe, personally, I think that development is moving far too rapidly.  It's been said before and it's true; whining isn't going to move production along any faster and only serves to help people feel better.

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I've got about 600 hours in dayz. I bought it for 27€, thats 0,05Cent per hour. It was worth it but hands down, the genre is pretty dead right now. Almost nobody but a handful of people care for a full release of dayz. What Bohemia is trying to do now is some damage containment, and that is totally ok.

Please get me right I'm not hating in any way but they showed how not to "early access". For me the biggest problem was the communication between developers and community.

Walls of text what they want to implement, features, guns, tons of stuff with exact release dates. And then: new trees. That you'll get a shitstorm for that kind of behavior is obvious in my eyes. And they made the same mistake a couple of times, which is not very smart.

I still install dayz after each major update, check it out and if I don't like it, I play something else, no big deal. And 0.63 is pretty crappy so far. :)

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From the devs stand point, they took in millions and millions of dollars for way less then the same investment on their side. 
They have been keeping putting varying levels of effort into it for the subsequent years and constanlty collecting more money as well.

As to success or failure, they are a company, it is a success. They made what used to be a bunch of money before the battle royal games showed them real money. For the players. Yet to be seen. Surely a marginal experience with years of underutilized servers as the game trickled out. 

If they had said at the start you will have a stable game to play with 40% of the content of the mod in 2019 how many millions would they have gathered. lol

 

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On 7/28/2018 at 11:55 AM, mugost said:

Well... this game is subject for a lot of aggression related frustrations and yes... there is a lot of bugs - ranging from annoying to down right stupid....etc etc

I not sure why u even bother making this post. Every game forum is full of non constructive complaining and frustration. It will always be. Dayz forum isnt special in that regard.

 

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On 3/8/2018 at 12:30 PM, svisketyggeren said:

I not sure why u even bother making this post. Every game forum is full of non constructive complaining and frustration. It will always be. Dayz forum isnt special in that regard.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

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Posted (edited)
On 30/07/2018 at 8:39 PM, Parazight said:

Semantics. 

At the end of the day, it's not a finished product.  And it's not in beta yet, despite how impatient people are.  And you come off as one of the most impatient people on these forums.

Look at Saylor's ridiculous simile about how a patron received a meal and then gave a bad review.  Okay, a served meal is a finished product.  DayZ is not finished in any way.  It has not been served up.  It's still roasting in the pot.  I realize that people here are hungry.  And it's fine if people lament about how their tummy hurts (I guess) because they're hungry for playing the title.  Fucking first world problems right there.

Yes, stop the madness.  The madness of simply saying "this is taking too long", based on nothing.  Maybe, personally, I think that development is moving far too rapidly.  It's been said before and it's true; whining isn't going to move production along any faster and only serves to help people feel better.

Honestly, posts like this from arrogant & deluded fanboys aren't better than random whiny threads. Your passive-agressive toxic posts aren't going to make this community healthier.
Game has been in development for 6 years, they have been promising beta release for years. Its not fair to call people impatient and mad after all these years and many broken promises.
Just because you are okay with it for whatever reasons, doesnt take away the right from other people to feel dissapointed.
Im personally happy with the current state of the game but I completely see why people feel otherwise.

Edited by TDsS
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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, TDsS said:


Game has been in development for 6 years

Math is is hard.  

 

RELEASE DATE:

16 Dec, 2013

Our current date: 9 Aug, 2018

Not even 5 years yet

Edited by Guy Smiley

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Guy Smiley said:

Math is is hard.  

 

RELEASE DATE:

16 Dec, 2013

Our current date: 9 Aug, 2018

Not even 5 years yet

Ugh...dont know what I expected. Do you seriously think that game development starts with official release? Development started around august of 2012 (over a year before official release), so its been 6 years.

"DayZ began development in 2012 when the mod's creator, Dean Hall, joined Bohemia Interactive to commence work on the standalone version of the game."

 

Edited by TDsS
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Posted (edited)

Time is running, at some point playerbase wont return any more. So i think they should hurry up or just give the ppl. something to play with. 1-3 updates a year are far to less....

Edited by aut korea

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