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Mantasisg

Noobs Hate Rain

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I ran into this today, I don't know if this guy is trolling, but I hope he does. First of all, I wonder if by any chance the rain is taken out of the game again ?

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IMO it is truly sad that in a survival game servers gets empty as it starts raining. On one hand it is logical - it is more difficult to survive, on the other hand it is the point of this game - a struggle to survive. When it is possible just to simply switch server whenever it gets difficult to survive - it is broken. It shouldn't be so, you should face whatever happens, would it be night, heavy rain, very cold weather, being surrounded by wolves or bandits, or all combined. Now the game is so many years in the development, and such an essential thing was never talked or looked at. Now you can ghost servers whenever it is comfortable. What do you think about that, realism warriors ?

I understand that ghosting is useful when the server performance is turning into sh**, and you just can have continuous gameplay in different servers, or you just don't have to memorize specific server, because in DayZ it is quite difficult to keep track on exact server, there is a way though, but anyway.... 

But the fact that server is most likely will get empty as it gets dark or starts raining is sad, it tells a lot about the playerbase - noobs, non-creative, and looking for most comfort they can get in the SURVIVAL game.

And I agree with this guy at this point - it is annoying that servers gets empty. It is annoying that all servers are using fine clear bright weather almost all of the time. It is annoying that bastards are exploiting ghosting possibilities, or logging off as it gets tough. 

What could be designed ? I don't know, I am not a game designer. But could a player stay live in a server for a minute for example, or for a half minute at least, so we would be forced to log-off only when we are in safety. Could it be unified weather in all public servers, or maybe even in all servers in total ? So players would have to deal with the severe weather conditions at some times, rather than just being able to simply switch to paradise weather. Also public servers should be working like servers in PUBG IMO, there should be a minimum for population, lets say - 30. Because it is easy to get looted in empty server and then ghost in somewhere. 

Players exploit the game like this and like that - everyone is loosing because of that.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

But could a player stay live in a server for a minute for example, or for a half minute at least, so we would be forced to log-off only when we are in safety.

You DO stay on the server for 30 seconds after disconnecting and you'll respawn at the shore if your character dies during that time.

Besides, you can't really prevent metagaming -- like escaping rain -- on the public hive. That's why if you have a problem with that, you should stick to a private server.

Think of it this way: "Oh no, it's raining and I'm not prepared, I'll probably die if I stay but I can stay alive if I switch to a different server." Of course you're going to switch servers, because it's the easy option that's right there for you. A lot of people don't want to deal with the extra difficulty from rain, night, or even "bad spawns." I don't think it's a problem with the game but the mentality of (some of) the people playing it.

Edited by Dancing.Russian.Man
☣BioHaze☣, emuthreat, pilgrim* and 1 other gave beans to this

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Ehhhhh......As someone trained in wilderness survival, if it starts to rain, or starts to get dark, I tend to log off. Why?

Because wandering around in the rain, or when it gets dark, really fucking sucks in real life. There is nothing I need that badly that is worth getting soaked and developing hypothermia for, or wandering around when I can't see and quite possibly getting hurt for. Nothing.

Food? Nah, if you go to sleep, your metabolic rate will drop down, meaning you require less food to survive longer.

Ammo? Nah

Medicine? perhaps, but 'sleep is the best medicine', on top the fact that your immune system will be weakened by wandering around in the cold and wet and dark. In all cases, you are better off sleeping until morning.

From my educated viewpoint, there is no reason at all to play in the rain or at night.

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Wow, I didn't know that it was actually a thing in DayZ lol Used to log-off at random places at random time haha Will definitely be more careful now, but I think 30s might not be enough then. Obviously there should be a warning that you are not going to despawn immediately after logging off, I didn't even know that. Used to learn about the game a lot through the streams and from other players through interactions, sadly fav streamers are gone (I hope just paused), and interactions aren't happening that much, also when they happens they are very short at recent iterations, because reasons. 

Aren't private server admins able to set the weather (I don't know), I thought they can do that, so I expect private servers to be always beautiful sunshine too. It is sad that night and rain aren't properly appreciated IMO, DayZ really shines at this, the shadow rendering which was achieved by devs is truly incredible, and in general rain and night are very immersive in DayZ, and adds a ton to the survival. It is a shame that metagaming, a shame. I would really look for something more forcing. Freedom of choice is good, but TBH sometimes its better when someone else is choosing for you, for example nature lol

Really sad that such mentality is majority of players. I used to play DayZ only in 1st person view for the first few hundred hours, but after seeing streamers using almost only third persons view, and understanding the advantages made me to choose it. Shame that naturally players are choosing for most dumbed down mechanics when they can. 

I guess I just have to try not to cry now, and accept the fact that most of the players in most of the games want extras such as night, rain, sandstorms lol and whatever just for a try, but keeps playing only a particular "classic" combo. So then the question evolves, is it worth to implement that ? Does it pay off it is only for minority of the minority. Also a bonus line among the selling points.

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Posted (edited)

@Whyherro123 here we go, no reason, pointless development..... Don't you think that everything in DayZ would "really fucking suck in real life". Infected npc, not being able to trust anyone, fear for your life, hunger, cold, starvation, hypothermia, injuries, not being able to find a safe spot, gunshots, fear and more fear..... 

Do you really think that in a survival you would be able to stay warm in rainy night all the time, or sleep with both eyes closed and do your medicine and save food that way ?

Don't you think that it would be a nice idea to go through dangerous fields at night, because decreased visibility, and dark tones would help you to stay unseen ? Or the sound of rain would hide your footsteps sound ? Also what about simply having to move when it is raining, not being able to afford staying at some cosy place, because you are extremely low on something.

Of course loging off is always an answer. 

How to survive in DayZ ? Step one: choose empty sunny server, step two: play till bored, step three: log off, log on three months later. Congrats you have been hibernating for three months, you are champion of survival.

Edited by Mantasisg

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My solution: An in game fatigue mechanic. That way, players actually need to stop running around and rest up as part of the game, and, adverse conditions offer the perfect opportunity to do so.

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Posted (edited)

On every public hive server it starts raining less than 5 mins after I log on. So I assumed it rained on all servers at the same time across the public hive. I'm telling you this so you know who's fault it is. OK? It rains when I'm online. Now you know.

On the other hand, if you spot movement or you are overlooking other players, rain is a perfect time gain the advantage. They are in their tent, or even sitting in their car (like real teenagers on Saturday night) or standing under a tree.  This is a good time to move. You get soaked but you can dry off when they are dead. Or wait until they build a fire to get dry, then pick them off while their gear is scattered around. Or get them at gunpoint while they are in their underwear.
The point is - Rain changes player behavior.  Use it.

And I guess you know you can fill your canteen by holding it out in a rainstorm?  Maybe many players have not got round to noticing this (I don't see it mentioned much these days?) - . It means you can spend a lot longer moving through isolated areas without either catching cholera from unboiled stream water, or getting a player or a zombie on your back at a village pump.

Rain is totally tactical. Use it for survival or use it as a weapon.

Edited by pilgrim*

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2 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

@Whyherro123 

Do you really think that in a survival you would be able to stay warm in rainy night all the time, or sleep with both eyes closed and do your medicine and save food that way ?

Don't you think that it would be a nice idea to go through dangerous fields at night, because decreased visibility, and dark tones would help you to stay unseen ? Or the sound of rain would hide your footsteps sound ? Also what about simply having to move when it is raining, not being able to afford staying at some cosy place, because you are extremely low on something.

Of course loging off is always an answer. 

How to survive in DayZ ? Step one: choose empty sunny server, step two: play till bored, step three: log off, log on three months later. Congrats you have been hibernating for three months, you are champion of survival.

Yes, Mantasig, having the skills to do what you state are pretty basic aspects of survival. Resource-management and energy-management are some of the first lessons I teach.

In survival, you only want to undertake an activity when you are going to get several levels of returns on the energy expenditure the activity costs, while mitigating potential risks.

pilgrim* and Deranged Pineapple gave beans to this

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@Whyherro123 You teach ? And you are tend to log-off when it is raining ? You must be a very good teacher.

I'm not saying that you are completely wrong, you have to rest, you have to do nothing for some time, you have to save energy, you have to avoid getting cold, ruining your clothes and so on and so on.... It is just that we are talking about the game, you aren't supposed to spend your nice free evening in a game sitting in a shed for 20minutes hiding while it is shooting around, just because it would be rational IRL, you are supposed to bring the action go right through challenges, not arround them. IRL the challenge would catch sooner or later, there is no log-off.

When you teach, you should simulate an awful conditions, because in the extremes you are most likely to break down. But you said some stuff in survival sucks lol those are your words, if you take money for your teaching you probably aren't giving practice that "sucks" for your pupils :/ We have a game here, DayZ, which SHOULD be about the challenge not about how to stay comfy when we are supposed to constantly move to save our ass. How could you know that you aren't going to be forced to move in a rainy night with temps close to 0C in an extreme situation, this game is about that, getting in extreme situations and being able to go through them. If your method of going through difficulty is to log-off, and with as much convincing argument as "it is not rational to be out in the rain in night". 

I don't even......

I guess you don't even swim to places, because it makes you wet too. 

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Posted (edited)

True, i've played with few friends, when started raining they were like "Lets go to another server", i asked them why they even play this game and they were like "you gonna die in few minutes".. what a noobs, mostly it's a challenge to die in a rainy dayz.
It's sad that people don't understand the point of survival game.

Actually i even feel way more immersed in the game when such challenges occur, camping under the roof etc.

Edited by exacomvm
Mantasisg gave beans to this

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On 10/9/2017 at 0:37 PM, Mantasisg said:

you are supposed to bring the action go right through challenges, not arround them.

Perhaps that is your play style, but plenty of people prefer to survive using their wits; this means avoiding any avoidable challenges, and only taking risks when you control the situation.
For instance, I prefer to run through the woods rather than use the roads, because wolves won't kill me instantly from hundreds of meters away as soon as they see me.  When I am fresh spawn and don't have a good enough gun and enough bullets to kill wolves quickly, I will avoid wolf territory and take my chances on the roads.  I also tend to run through the woods when it rains, because the trees keep me from getting wet as fast, and provide both fuel and cover for when I have to stop and dry off in my leather clothing.

Nobody is supposed to do anything except for survive, and a number of people will tell you that finding frequent PVP interactions is more important than survival to them.

Maybe the goal is to have fun, because it it a game.  But why then do I sometimes get stressed and have to play for hours longer than I wanted to, just because someone found my base and I need to move it NOW, or risk losing everything I have worked for?  Why do I scream obscenities at the top of my lungs when lag decides to move my V3s off the road and into a tree?  Why do I spend hours looking for the legendary FAL to gain an edge in battles, only to avoid battles once I have found it because I don't know how many people there are and don't want to die and lose it?

 

For some people the object ot the game is to survive, and for others it is to kill; while some people care to do neither, and approach everyone they meet to see if they are friendly.  Fun is subjective, and DayZ need not even be "fun" to be enjoyable, if that makes any sense to you.

Edited by emuthreat
Whyherro123, fuzzy_chimera and ColdAtrophy gave beans to this

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@emuthreat Well you took it out of the context, because it was mostly about metagaming: not playing in the rain at all, not playing in the night at all, ghosting, gearing up in empty servers, logging off when trapped in the battle.... And does the trees really help to avoid getting wet and cold ? I thought it doesn't. Though it would be realsitic to have less rain, less wind and higher temps in the woods.

The fact that you can simply do all this just takes so much out from the game. I'm surprised about arguments that it is ok not to play in the rain, or night. It is sad because it would be entertaining, also devs has been working hard to bring those features, it is sad to see them not being appreciated. What I meant was that some things like rain or night shouldn't be easily avoidable. I checked servers yesterday, all were sunny. In public server where I played it actually rained lightly, for two minutes lol (I guess to prevent players from overheating lol), full server, no loot at all at any place. But thats offtopic.

I would expect the last, most loyal, DayZ players to use the game to the fullest, sadly it appears not be so. Thats why I say that the best, most creative players of DayZ are just not active. You just like filling your tents with the precious loot in comfy conditions, most of it you don't actually need. The game is not about survival now, it is all about collecting loot now. 

 

Edited by Mantasisg
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The same people who don't like the rain also don't like the night time or any of the survival elements of DayZ.  These are also the same people who bought DayZ under the assumption is was just another run of the mill shooter and are the same people who want mods that give starting gear and spawn points.

exacomvm and fuzzy_chimera gave beans to this

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True, but it is a game to blame too. If game allows to easily go around challenge by ghosting or logging-off, then people will simply do it. It is human nature, humans will go through all the possible gaps to get in front. Even if it is dishonest and disrespectful towards everyone else. Those gaps has to be patched.

Oh is it night ? Deal with it. Oh is it rain ? Deal with it. Oh you heard wolves ? Run, bish. Got outnumbered in a fight, or getting pwned ? Deal with it. 

Server has terrible lag, hackers or something like that ? Oh, perhaps you are right this moment.


*******

I have a question. It would be nice to know if I can check ambient temperatures, and wind speeds somehow. Can I do it in DayZ ? 

I wouldn't be surprised if most servers are only using optimal temps for sprinting, and to dry-off after getting wet (for example swimming, because - rain is, obiously, not used).


******

Imagine servers in 0.63 could be set not to use stamina system. I guess it is pretty obvious what servers would be chosed by the mass. The bad thing is that when the mass makes the choice, then the rest has to deal with lonelyness, or has to get over the principles and move together with the mass, in other words - join the mass. 

Really dieing for 0.63, it is not even funny. PUBG is very fun, but it is not DayZ, you know.
 
 

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Kinda weird to worry about such essential things. When DayZ has been sold-out like gold in the very first days, and is now so much years into development.

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On 10/9/2017 at 3:37 PM, Mantasisg said:

@Whyherro123 You teach ? And you are tend to log-off when it is raining ? You must be a very good teacher.

I'm not saying that you are completely wrong, you have to rest, you have to do nothing for some time, you have to save energy, you have to avoid getting cold, ruining your clothes and so on and so on.... It is just that we are talking about the game, you aren't supposed to spend your nice free evening in a game sitting in a shed for 20minutes hiding while it is shooting around, just because it would be rational IRL, you are supposed to bring the action go right through challenges, not arround them. IRL the challenge would catch sooner or later, there is no log-off.

When you teach, you should simulate an awful conditions, because in the extremes you are most likely to break down. But you said some stuff in survival sucks lol those are your words, if you take money for your teaching you probably aren't giving practice that "sucks" for your pupils :/ We have a game here, DayZ, which SHOULD be about the challenge not about how to stay comfy when we are supposed to constantly move to save our ass. How could you know that you aren't going to be forced to move in a rainy night with temps close to 0C in an extreme situation, this game is about that, getting in extreme situations and being able to go through them. If your method of going through difficulty is to log-off, and with as much convincing argument as "it is not rational to be out in the rain in night". 

I don't even......

I guess you don't even swim to places, because it makes you wet too. 

1) If the basis of your argument is an attack on my character, then your argument sucks big fat dick.

And, yes, in my real world survival class, I teach my students to go to sleep when it is raining or when it gets dark. Why? Because it is fucking stupid to run around in the rain/dark, not to mention a waste of energy. If you need something THAT BAD, you are going to die anyways. If you don't need it RIGHT NOW..... it can wait until it is dry and bright out, and you would be much better served relaxed and sleeping instead of running around.

2) Its...... not rational to be out in the rain at night.

Tell me, Mantasig, do you have any real world survival knowledge? It really sounds like you do not. If that is the case, don't tell me how to survive. I don't tell you how to ..... do whatever it is you do.

3)

"you are supposed to bring the action go right through challenges"

"You are supposed to constantly move to save our ass"

Incorrect. Flat out incorrect.

There is no point to Day Z, other than the continued survival of the player character. You are't supposed to do anything in particular. In fact, one of the most efficient methods of survival involve parking your ass near a source of water and growing crops. 

Peace

fuzzy_chimera and green_mtn_grandbob gave beans to this

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3 hours ago, Whyherro123 said:

1) If the basis of your argument is an attack on my character, then your argument sucks big fat dick.

And, yes, in my real world survival class, I teach my students to go to sleep when it is raining or when it gets dark. Why? Because it is fucking stupid to run around in the rain/dark, not to mention a waste of energy. If you need something THAT BAD, you are going to die anyways. If you don't need it RIGHT NOW..... it can wait until it is dry and bright out, and you would be much better served relaxed and sleeping instead of running around.

2) Its...... not rational to be out in the rain at night.

Tell me, Mantasig, do you have any real world survival knowledge? It really sounds like you do not. If that is the case, don't tell me how to survive. I don't tell you how to ..... do whatever it is you do.

3)

"you are supposed to bring the action go right through challenges"

"You are supposed to constantly move to save our ass"

Incorrect. Flat out incorrect.

There is no point to Day Z, other than the continued survival of the player character. You are't supposed to do anything in particular. In fact, one of the most efficient methods of survival involve parking your ass near a source of water and growing crops. 

Peace

So you're basically saying that DayZ is real Life?  That when it gets dark in DayZ you're gonna go to bed?  When it starts raining you'll go to bed? Dude, it's a game and the focus on the game is the challenges that come with the "game".  So are you going to log off every time the game gets too hard for you?  Oh, sun is going down, better log off.  It's raining, better log off.  Do you realize what you've been saying lol?

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On 10/12/2017 at 5:36 PM, Whyherro123 said:

1) If the basis of your argument is an attack on my character, then your argument sucks big fat dick.

And, yes, in my real world survival class, I teach my students to go to sleep when it is raining or when it gets dark. Why? Because it is fucking stupid to run around in the rain/dark, not to mention a waste of energy. If you need something THAT BAD, you are going to die anyways. If you don't need it RIGHT NOW..... it can wait until it is dry and bright out, and you would be much better served relaxed and sleeping instead of running around.

2) Its...... not rational to be out in the rain at night.

Tell me, Mantasig, do you have any real world survival knowledge? It really sounds like you do not. If that is the case, don't tell me how to survive. I don't tell you how to ..... do whatever it is you do.

3)

"you are supposed to bring the action go right through challenges"

"You are supposed to constantly move to save our ass"

Incorrect. Flat out incorrect.

There is no point to Day Z, other than the continued survival of the player character. You are't supposed to do anything in particular. In fact, one of the most efficient methods of survival involve parking your ass near a source of water and growing crops. 

Peace

Hope your students don't mind you speaking about sucking big fat dicks.

Its just a game. There is no survival at all yet...

 

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He asks me if I have ReAL WoRLd SuRVIval knowledge. Not really. But I have at least some logic. Also tells me "not to tell him how to survive". But teaches others. Being a teacher is quite responsible IMO. 

It starts rain. You have to move real fast, make a shelter, make a fire. What if you have no matches. What if at that location it had been raining before and the wood is wet and it is harder to light the fire. What if temps are close to zero. What if the wind is strong and cold. What if it is a storm with lightnings. What if you have to stay hidden from somebody. What if you don't have the items which you should have at the moment...

Oh it is not rational to get into such situation. It also sucks. Better log off, and pretend that such thing never happened :D

1minute YT search

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58TAnlJOSUw

Edited by Mantasisg

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I hate the way pristine clothing look and can't wait till a zombie attacks me so my clothes don't look so damn horrible looking. So I wear my clothes ruined, damaged, worn, so long as they look decent. This poses a problem when going out in the rain for two miliseconds gets me "soaked through". I just realized i could switch servers today to get out of the rain, so i absolutely will do if i play again. I do not enjoy running around for the sake of a too-simple game mechanic that doesn't enhance my immersion, yet. The mechanic just weird and it happens too fast IMO and i worry about losing my stuff i pull out of my clothing if the server resets/crashes, i have no idea how many times i have to wring out and i don't appreciate clicking in my inventory multiple times to do that. They've got to make the game fully about survival IMO to make that fun and there are many problems with that in itself, it has to be fun and interesting and that part isn't there yet IMO. I can see how new players might really enjoy it all, but i role-played surviving in DayZ mod for a long time already. They really need to give this world new life for long time players before they can expect players to enjoy such simple mechanics. They can do it i think, but its a long way to go IMO.

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Rain is one of my favorite features at the moment. Its one of the few game play mechanics that has actually been added to the game since release. DayZ is a survival game with mostly broken and incomplete survival features. It's nice that clothing can actually make a difference now. Just find a rain coat or a gorka military jacket and you'll be covered from rain.  

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We need more variety, the waterproof stuff is plain looking imo. M65 jackets could easily have water proof versions as there are many versions of them in real life and they don't need to look shinny to be rain proof. I hope they go for a layer system where you need to build up layers of clothing, ie ->shirt; ->sweater; ->coat; ->rain coat to survive outside. I really don't want rain coat or gorka jacket to be the only end-game gear.

Edited by libertine

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