3PP vs 1PP - I finally have an opinion

[BobbyDean 7]

So I've finally made up my mind on this debate - it's a bit of a compromise.  I've been playing DayZ since early 2014 and have been thinking about this debate for a while.  Both sides of the argument have merit, but I agree that gunfights in 3PP are very immersion breaking.  After 3 years, I finally have a solid opinion and would love to hear your thoughts.

My Opinion:   Allow switching between 3PP/1PP whenever you want EXCEPT when you have a firearm in your hands.  So, firearm in your hands = forced 1PP mode. 

I finally came to this conclusion because I figure for some character movement and ESPECIALLY melee, etc 3PP really does play an important part given it's a video game and not real life.  BUT once your character has a firearm in their hand, I think you should no longer be allowed the extra "situational awareness" that 3PP gives you until the firearm is removed from your hands.

Thoughts?

[Espa 711]

Not a bad idea, honestly. I'm not sure what the Devs have planned, but I could see this working out pretty well and not -really- detract from either party. Good job :) 

[-Gews- 7443]

1 hour ago, BobbyDean said:

Thoughts?

This would solve nothing for those who prefer 1st person, and would only serve to annoy the vast majority who prefer 3rd person.

[gambla 118]

Oh Lord, how many of these discussions and "suggestions" do we need until it's finally enough ? Why do players , who prefer 1pp, don't stop trying to convince other players of 1pp ? Please don't try to start just another discussion under the cover of you suggestion. This topic is obsolete anyway as we already have many private 1pp-only servers.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

1 hour ago, -Gews- said:

This would solve nothing for those who prefer 1st person, and would only serve to annoy the vast majority who prefer 3rd person.

1 - I prefer 1pp and this proposed solution would make 3pp servers far more tolerable to me.

2 - At some point BI needs to start thinking about more than the handful of people who currently abuse alpha mechanics and how they'll throw a temper tantrum any time something is tweaked.

[Kohlbar 270]

I feel like this is a bit too controlling honestly, yeah 3pp corner peeking is fucking lame for gunfights, but I honestly feel the less the game TELLS you what to do, the better. 1PP Servers are still there *tries to conceal laughter*

[sachad 1016]

I prefer 1PP myself, but honestly, I hope it never gets enforced in any way. The majority of people seems to prefer 3PP for various reasons, hence why 3PP servers are vastly more populated. Why would you want to alienate them to placate a minority who already have their dedicated servers? 

I don't really get why people keep insisting using 3PP is somehow against the spirit of the game. It's been in 3PP since the mod was first released. If you don't want to face people who use 3PP, don't play on those servers. But don't call those people noobs or lamers or whatever. 

[Mr_Joe 38]

They could make all official servers first person, as official servers should be the most vanilla and true to the experience, but allow community servers to have the option for thirdperson, assuming the public hive system is hopefully gonna be gone in the future since it's not gonna work at all with base building and is already abused in many ways.

 

Also, I do not like your idea.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Mr_Joe

[Guy Smiley 534]

6 hours ago, gambla said:

Oh Lord, how many of these discussions and "suggestions" do we need until it's finally enough ? Why do players , who prefer 1pp, don't stop trying to convince other players of 1pp ? Please don't try to start just another discussion under the cover of you suggestion. This topic is obsolete anyway as we already have many private 1pp-only servers.

Could you please make a list of 1pp servers that actually have players on them because I hate being forced to play 3pp due to population.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Guy Smiley

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

My problem with 3PP is that it turns the infected patterns in towns into RTS view and makes avoiding them 100x easier.

DayZ is intended to be played in 1PP only for full immersion as stated by numerous devs in multiple status reports begging you to try 1PP.

3PP is easy mode (literally) left over from ARMA2 because they could not strip it out of the mod initially.

People then felt safe and grew accustomed to 3PP and had a major backlash when 3PP is considered to be changed (which it is).

3PP is ridiculous to me and spoils the DayZ experience top to bottom.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Right now, I play both 3PP and 1PP.

1PP in actual firefights or when ADS

3PP when running around

I get violent motion-sickness when running around in 1PP for any period of time longer than a few minutes at a time. I've messed with the FOV, headbob, etc. The only thing I can think of is the hilariously incorrect proportions in buildings and such.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

12 minutes ago, Whyherro123 said:

I get violent motion-sickness when running around in 1PP for any period of time longer than a few minutes at a time.

To me, this is the best argument to keep 3PP (which will never go away).

However, increased frame rates may help you with this in the future.

[BCBasher 2465]

11 minutes ago, Whyherro123 said:

*snip*

I get violent motion-sickness when running around in 1PP for any period of time longer than a few minutes at a time. I've messed with the FOV, headbob, etc. The only thing I can think of is the hilariously incorrect proportions in buildings and such.

I always get in on these treads in jest with the "1pp master race" jokes but seriously I'm the opposite I've been playing 1pp since 1pp 3d simulations were made commercially available in the mid eighties. Between training my brain to perceive depth in a flat simulation of a 3d world and my natural lack of stereoscopic depth perception 3pp is disorienting and nauseating walking and running. I can drive in either preferring 1pp but will drive in 3pp (if available) in DayZ backing up just because I can't look back properly.

[Kohlbar 270]

I only use 3PP because I enjoy looking at my character while he's running for a while or next to a fireplace, in animations etc. I never use it for combat because I feel it makes me play differently.

[BCBasher 2465]

12 minutes ago, Kohlbar said:

I only use 3PP because I enjoy looking at my character while he's running for a while or next to a fireplace, in animations etc. I never use it for combat because I feel it makes me play differently.

I used 3pp in EXP recently while my 1pp guy was stuck and did some observing at the Skalatisy deerstand watching undisturbed infected wandering behavior and at one of the new checkpoints hiding in a command V3S seeing how the player footsteps sound fallout equates to distance.

Laying in the truck watching players out the window 3 feet above my head like I had a periscope made me feel dirty even though I had no intentions of harming them. 

[p4triot 207]

Not allowing people to shoot when in 3PP goes againts those who prefer 3rd person view.

I myself hate 3PP when shooting, I would miss everything, but I both love/need 3PP for everything else, cuz in this game for some reason 1PP is unplayable. It must be model proportion, FOV, head movement (tho I have it disabled). I don't know, but I always end up resorting to 3pp when playing, also because I like watching my character.

But for me, the solution is rather easy - conceptually speaking -. Make every interactive element on the map (players, zombies, vehicles, items...) invisible to the player if not in the eyes field of vision of the character. I've seen some mods already doing this though in a bad way (with latency at appearing/disappearing stuff cuz they're mods and can't modify the graphics engine itself), but it's doable. Integrating it with the engine would also make it 100% effective and not performance costly (for those who don't know the number of operations behind EVERY pixel of your screen for each frame rendered is asthonising, adding this to the math wouldn't affect your fps at all).

Edited December 26, 2016 by p4triot

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

I personally prefer 1PP, can barely stand 3PP, but I don't think we should force something like this on the 3PP folk. They all have access to it, and it's something they're aware of when they play 3PP. For those who prefer 1PP, we have enough servers that get populated to keep us going just fine, so we shouldn't even need to make a compromise.

[emuthreat 2837]

It looks like 3pp is here to stay, but it would be nice to see some #Official1ppLove^TM  from the developers, in the form of making the *official (reads un-rented, @pilgrim*) servers default to 1pp.

It would be nice if the wave of new players that come with the console releases and the full 1.0 version, got the opportunity to play the game as it was meant to be played for their first experience.  I know I'm thankful that it took a few weeks before I accidentally hit enter.

Edited December 26, 2016 by emuthreat

[BobbyDean 7]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Glad to see there are others that like the idea.   However, for those who are saying I'm a 1PP player trying to force the debate for there to be 1PP only, I'm seriously not.  I honestly prefer 3PP in all respects EXCEPT for firefights.  This really is my opinion.  

[-Gews- 7443]

14 hours ago, ColdAtrophy said:

1 - I prefer 1pp and this proposed solution would make 3pp servers far more tolerable to me.

You're a minority—when I've checked in the past I've seen approximately 95% of players pick 3rd person.

I prefer 1st person because I don't like players seeing over and around objects without exposing themselves. This change would not fix that, so I would not play on these hybrid servers. I imagine most of the '1st person aficionados' would have similar opinions. Most of the 3rd person players don't see a problem with their preferred perspective and would not like this change.

So who would it satisfy? A very small percentage of players, who don't like camera peaking, but also don't care enough to eliminate camera peaking. Not worth making an extra server type.

 

14 hours ago, ColdAtrophy said:

2 - At some point BI needs to start thinking about more than the handful of people who currently abuse alpha mechanics and how they'll throw a temper tantrum any time something is tweaked.

It's not the abuse of an alpha mechanic we're talking about here. Camera peaking is how the 3rd person perspective plays and how it has always played. Peaking is inherent to this perspective as it works in both DayZ and ARMA.

Edited December 27, 2016 by -Gews-

[sneakydude 480]

19 hours ago, BobbyDean said:

So I've finally made up my mind on this debate - it's a bit of a compromise.  I've been playing DayZ since early 2014 and have been thinking about this debate for a while.  Both sides of the argument have merit, but I agree that gunfights in 3PP are very immersion breaking.  After 3 years, I finally have a solid opinion and would love to hear your thoughts.

My Opinion:   Allow switching between 3PP/1PP whenever you want EXCEPT when you have a firearm in your hands.  So, firearm in your hands = forced 1PP mode. 

I finally came to this conclusion because I figure for some character movement and ESPECIALLY melee, etc 3PP really does play an important part given it's a video game and not real life.  BUT once your character has a firearm in their hand, I think you should no longer be allowed the extra "situational awareness" that 3PP gives you until the firearm is removed from your hands.

Thoughts?

Every suggestion is great with me except i do not want any major changes to 3pp until the actual "Gews" Spin topic is fixed in dayz, and the massive problems somewhere in the graphics.

I cant play dayz that long under 1pp, i have tried and still fail to want to keep playing it. Not for pvp, because i can snipe any which way, or stalk it is about the movement i find gives me a headache.

Once the graphics etc is optimized i will be ok with what ever happens. I just don't want to hang up the skates until i know its working fine for me and a few others... with the same problems.

Edited December 27, 2016 by sneakydude

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

2 hours ago, -Gews- said:

You're a minority—when I've checked in the past I've seen approximately 95% of players pick 3rd person.

I prefer 1st person because I don't like players seeing over and around objects without exposing themselves. This change would not fix that, so I would not play on these hybrid servers. I imagine most of the '1st person aficionados' would have similar opinions. Most of the 3rd person players don't see a problem with their preferred perspective and would not like this change.

So who would it satisfy? A very small percentage of players, who don't like camera peaking, but also don't care enough to eliminate camera peaking. Not worth making an extra server type.

No one is talking about an extra server type, or at least that's not the way I took it. It wouldn't be 3pp, 1pp, and this other one. Enforcing 1pp while the gun is in your hands would always be active during 3pp. Does it 100% solve the problem? No, but it does help and since those of us who prefer fair gameplay are forced into 3pp servers due to population and the mechanic in question is absolute bullshit anyway (I mean, seriously, how is this even a conversation?), this seems like a pretty decent compromise since no one is ever going to get what they want anyway.

2 hours ago, -Gews- said:

It's not the abuse of an alpha mechanic we're talking about here. Camera peaking is how the 3rd person perspective plays and how it has always played. Peaking is inherent to this perspective as it works in both DayZ and ARMA.

This is alpha still, the game has quite a long way to go, and I've seen some rumblings from BI that make me think the fat lady has yet to sing on this particular issue. "That's the way it has always been" is a terrible reason for doing anything.

 

[Guy Smiley 534]

Instead of when a gun is in your hand it switches to 1pp but it switches only for aiming down sights and removing the crosshair while in 3pp.  And to be honest, while I prefer 1pp melee is very bad.  Heck, I can't really think of any game that has done a good 1pp melee.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Guy Smiley

[-Gews- 7443]

59 minutes ago, ColdAtrophy said:

No one is talking about an extra server type, or at least that's not the way I took it. It wouldn't be 3pp, 1pp, and this other one. Enforcing 1pp while the gun is in your hands would always be active during 3pp. Does it 100% solve the problem? No, but it does help and since those of us who prefer fair gameplay are forced into 3pp servers due to population and the mechanic in question is absolute bullshit anyway (I mean, seriously, how is this even a conversation?), this seems like a pretty decent compromise since no one is ever going to get what they want anyway.

Most 3rd person players already have what they want perspective-wise. The proposal would annoy the majority of DayZ players while failing to eliminate the camera peeking issue. If the devs are prepared to remove 3rd person perspective while a gun is in the characters' hands, they could, and should, go one step further and remove that perspective entirely.

The only time I've been 'forced' into a 3rd person server was in certain experimental patches (eg, late 0.59 exp). Otherwise there have always been private (sometimes even public) 1st person servers available with an acceptable amount of players.

59 minutes ago, ColdAtrophy said:

This is alpha still, the game has quite a long way to go, and I've seen some rumblings from BI that make me think the fat lady has yet to sing on this particular issue. "That's the way it has always been" is a terrible reason for doing anything.

What I've seen was that my character's view was gimped in either perspective with the introduction of the new 3rd person 'imperceptibly less peeky' camera (grrr), a couple short comments from devs encouraging people to try 1st person, and of course, this:

Doesn't really get my hopes up for any major camera peeking fix. The perspective is too entrenched at this point.

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by -Gews-

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

46 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

The perspective is too entrenched at this point.

Didn't we just see a new video of 3PP that zooms into your back when approaching walls etc?

I thought I saw something recently.

As far as I can remember, they are working on changing it from the way it is.