kumando

Will the new Infected Spawn mechanic add more zombies?

36 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, kumando said:

Like the title says is this new mechanic going to up the zombie count?

I would not expect so before we start hitting a focus on optimization on server side. That said, our infected count globally is still higher than the glory days of the mod - so what I'm *hoping* to see is a more intelligent usage of what we have. (Should be around 500, but we need to see how .61 performs under these criteria)

So in short - keep your eyes on the forums and Status Reports.

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8 minutes ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

I would not expect so before we start hitting a focus on optimization on server side. That said, our infected count globally is still higher than the glory days of the mod - so what I'm *hoping* to see is a more intelligent usage of what we have. (Should be around 500, but we need to see how .61 performs under these criteria)

So in short - keep your eyes on the forums and Status Reports.

Thanks for the quick reply Hicks.

 

Sqeezorz gave beans to this

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I thought that will add more zombies locally. Like it was in mod. That they will spawn where ever player is. 

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11 minutes ago, igor-vk said:

I thought that will add more zombies locally. Like it was in mod. That they will spawn where ever player is. 

Definitely not locally - all of that is server side, as it should be. The *perception* (much like in the mod) hopefully should result in people feeling like there are more. 

☣BioHaze☣ and odin_lowe gave beans to this

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I think there is no need for a huge number as long the spawn system is working properly:) That said for me the key is unpredictability. This means there should always be a chance for running into a herd but also no zeds at all, at any time and any place. Also spawning should not depend on player numbers only but also on the noise the make.One idiot firing his AK in the middle of Cherno should attract more zeds than 10 sneaky guys :)

 

Edit: Will there be a random chance for zeds to sawn inside of buildings ?

Edited by Private Evans
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1 hour ago, Private Evans said:

I think there is no need for a huge number as long the spawn system is working properly:) That said for me the key is unpredictability. This means there should always be a chance for running into a herd but also no zeds at all, at any time and any place. Also spawning should not depend on player numbers only but also on the noise the make.One idiot firing his AK in the middle of Cherno should attract more zeds than 10 sneaky guys :)

 

Edit: Will there be a random chance for zeds to sawn inside of buildings ?

Also spawning should not depend on player numbers only but also on the noise they make.

^ would you care to explain? because the infected ARE based on player numbers (I thought around 13 zeds vs 1 player if i'm correct)

and would that be the case.. how do the zeds spawn in then? being 'sneaky' is a very broad perspective i might add.. 
sure firing a M4 in cherno is like ringing a dinner bell... still like @Hicks_206 (DayZ) said: it all depends on server performance/optimization how many zeds there are ultimately going to be in the game..

you can't just expect a country like chernarus (which has several 1000's of people living in it) to have 3000 zeds and about 40-60 survivors because the server would just begin weeping blood at that time.
overall performance atm (with midrange GPU's) is about 35-50 fps on average... now imagine walking into cherno or elektro and the server has to spawn in 200 zeds in cherno alone.. RIP FPS...

no matter if you're running a 2000 dollar skylake CPU with 32 gigs of ram and a GTX 1080 SC in SLI.. the game engine would simply die and crash with that amount of zeds in 1 place. 

Hairy_eyeball and odin_lowe gave beans to this

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It isn't possible to spawn infected in the client side AND inside the server at the same time? 

Could client side infected be recognized by other clients that they come in contact with, without making the server manging them?

Or adding infected that don't use so much AI resources and are "dumber" 

Sorry if the questions are dumb. I'm just curious about mechanics behind that, because if player number go 80+ the current quantity of infected would be too small (like one comes across some of them in big cities and that's all, there isn't any in towns or in open fields :/), although adding some new types would help with the difficulty (in theory), don't know if it would help with the encounters with them in most cities/towns.

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@OP

Furthermore, let's all hope that the eventual merging of components and optimization of same pays dividends performance wise, which might allow for more global and dynamic infected in the end.

4 minutes ago, exwoll said:

It isn't possible to spawn infected in the client side AND inside the server at the same time? 

It's more secure and lends itself to cleaner reproduction client to client if infected are handled server side.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I hope that every small town/village is configured with dynamic infected spawn points in .61. I don't care how it's done as long as I feel like I am dodging/confronting them often.

Have you noticed infected "pop in" when spawning during testing, Senor Hix?

Hopefully clever ways of spawning them in are being devised so we cannot see it happen...

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Sure it will be all server side. But no need for zombies north of nwaf if there are no players nowhere near there. Server should move all zeds where players are.

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4 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Definitely not locally - all of that is server side, as it should be. The *perception* (much like in the mod) hopefully should result in people feeling like there are more. 

 

I know you've touched on this before, but you are saying that your end goal is to have zombies that don't spawn when players are near to avoid meta gaming and knowing where players are correct? 

Kohlbar gave beans to this

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2 hours ago, exwoll said:

It isn't possible to spawn infected in the client side AND inside the server at the same time? 

Could client side infected be recognized by other clients that they come in contact with, without making the server manging them?

This is a big no-no.  As soon as the game is situated to allow one client to report back to the server what the other clients should be seeing, it opens up the can of worms for people who would exploit it; like find a way for their client to say all the zombies aggro on whomever they mouse-over and double click.  Very bad idea...

Or adding infected that don't use so much AI resources and are "dumber" I like the idea of swarm mechanics, where only the first zombie aggro will use up the AI and pathfinding, while the others just follow.  I also think that this idea is simple enough that devs have also though of it; and perhaps found a reason no to do so.

Sorry if the questions are dumb. I'm just curious about mechanics behind that, because if player number go 80+ the current quantity of infected would be too small (like one comes across some of them in big cities and that's all, there isn't any in towns or in open fields :/), although adding some new types would help with the difficulty (in theory), don't know if it would help with the encounters with them in most cities/towns.

I think sometimes that the problem is with the game being built for high populations of throwaway play via coastal PVP.  I really enjoy sticking to one server, getting established and getting a feel for the lay of the land.  Few things compare to the feeling of success that comes from noticing small changes to the landscape that indicate other players have been there, returning at similar times, and trying to pattern their behavior from little scraps they leave behind.  It all builds up to that moment when you find their camp, and can make the choice to raid it and call it a day, or to follow them, and try to make contact someplace neutral, knowing full well that if they cross you, they gonna come home to find mines in their ammo tent and poisoned water bottles in their food tent.

Maybe the solution is to run a parallel attempt to optimize 30 person servers for maximum zombie population and environment modification/feedback.

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Also spawning should not depend on player numbers only but also on the noise they make.

^ would you care to explain? because the infected ARE based on player numbers (I thought around 13 zeds vs 1 player if i'm correct)

 

Simply spawning a given amount of zeds per player and depending on the location seems too simple. Gunfire and vehicles for example could increase the number of zeds spawning in a specific zone. Also there should be a random chance of spawning no zeds at all even in a hot zone  but also spawning a large group even in a small village with just one or two players around. Also there should always be a small chance to have zeds spawning inside buildings if a player is around  or in remote areas...

just my thoughts

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8 hours ago, Private Evans said:

-snip- Also there should always be a small chance to have zeds spawning inside buildings if a player is around  or in remote areas... -snip-

This! I think it would be really immersive, if infected are spawning in houses. At the moment I play Arma 3 exile on a CCG Server where they implemented a TornZ Zombie mod... its this frankie Tanoa Server. It´s a bit like the old Dayz Mod system with spawning many zombies by player coming into a spawnzone. Sometimes they spawn inside houses and it feels great if there is deep fog everywhere and the infected are swarming out of a house. Or you go in a building and several Z´s turning to your direction and want to hunt you. For shure they are no thread until to many of them will try to get you and they are more placeholders in their AI behavior but its pretty funny at all. 

I like the idea of increasing the spawning rate by noise. This would ad another way of playstyle. So it would be possible to attract z´s to a intended area. Maybe near a house where you know a sniper is hidden. Maybe Flares and other lightsources could atract them in a similar way.

The whole spawning system should be as unpredicteble as possible. Like Private Evans said it would be great if sometimes there are no zeds, sometimes there are 30-40 in a small village. Sometimes you find a Helicrash with no zeds, sometimes there are to many of them to kill em with a pistol and 20 rounds. Sometimes they are in houses and come out by noise or light attraction. Should the noise of ingame chat attract them too? This would be great I think! "Hey you bastards come over here!"

This unpredictability would knock out the metagaming thing and would guarantee the feeling that many many zeds are in the game.

@Hicks_206 (DayZ) I think this mixture of prespawned Z´s at serverstart and noise-, light- and playerdependet spawnsystem would be extremly powerfull.

 

Edited by imunone
Private Evans gave beans to this

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Zombies should never spawn near players or because a player is in a certain vicinity. there have been too many problems with zombies popping up out of thin air within 50 feet of you and starting to chase you. I believe they should spawn once, roam a path and divert from it to chase you if they hear or see you, and when you kill one it should fall down and play dead for about 20 minutes until it rises again to roam on its path with zero aggro if you are in the vicinity this way you are always on your toes watching those dead bodies.

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On 23-9-2016 at 3:10 AM, Private Evans said:

Also spawning should not depend on player numbers only but also on the noise they make.

^ would you care to explain? because the infected ARE based on player numbers (I thought around 13 zeds vs 1 player if i'm correct)

 

Simply spawning a given amount of zeds per player and depending on the location seems too simple. Gunfire and vehicles for example could increase the number of zeds spawning in a specific zone. Also there should be a random chance of spawning no zeds at all even in a hot zone  but also spawning a large group even in a small village with just one or two players around. Also there should always be a small chance to have zeds spawning inside buildings if a player is around  or in remote areas...

just my thoughts

again.... the infected ARE based on player numbers (I thought around 13 zeds vs 1 player if i'm correct)

so you're outnumbered 13/1 and I think thats the case.. if players come through the town your in.. more will spawn... that would probably also happen with gunfire... not to sure about vehicles yet... but could be an option..
again.. it all depends on the engine .. how well can that handle the 'strain' of having to spawn in 39 extra zeds because 3 players run into cherno.. and anothter X amount because a car drives through that exact town at that same moment.

again... that leads to my answer of: overall performance atm (with midrange GPU's) is about 35-50 fps on average... now imagine walking into cherno or elektro and the server has to spawn in 200 zeds in cherno alone.. RIP FPS... regardless of your system

have you ever played H1Z1? build a base in that game.. and just linger in your base for about 20 min.. then peak outside... there's a MASSIVE amount of zeds outside just fumbling and stumbeling around.. waiting for the chance to eat you.. 40-60 with ease..

Edited by Tigermonk

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So, is sitting on a hill somewhere safe just far enough away from a town waiting for Zeds to spawn in to know a player is down there.. coming back? I thought they didn't want that, were even adamant about it?

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2 hours ago, [Gen]Adzic said:

So, is sitting on a hill somewhere safe just far enough away from a town waiting for Zeds to spawn in to know a player is down there.. coming back? I thought they didn't want that, were even adamant about it?

I recall it being described as sort of a "hybrid" system, where zombies will still be spawned normally, but increased around players. That would keep you guessing whether or not the town ahead had a player in it.

sneakydude and Hairy_eyeball gave beans to this

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@ Tigermonk

I absolutely understand that the spawn mechanic is or better will be based on player count in a given area / spawn zone and that of course performance impact has to tested :) What I am saying is that such a spawn system even if it will work with large

numbers of zeds is too simple and boring. As Imunone said, zed spawning has to be unpredictable. Knowing how many zeds will spawn in which zone would be boring.  This is why I said that the whole system has to be spiced up with different variables.

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52 minutes ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

I recall it being described as sort of a "hybrid" system, where zombies will still be spawned normally, but increased around players. That would keep you guessing whether or not the town ahead had a player in it.

This makes sense. However the server side demands what a player in chero is, to whats spawning around them up north impacts theserver & client in cherno. Even if they don't see it. This is where the CPU bubble has to be reduced around the clients in the area feel.

If you can reduce the cpu power required around the user so nothing but that 1000m impacts them, we got ourselves something different. Hybrid or not, will be much easier load balance. We only want to issue so much server load to the player and vs versa.

 

Remember i am going from what we know in arma to what we don't know will happen with dayz. How much of that will be explored at the time of dayz release and how much we "will beg the devs" to fix the load balance. Headless clients anyone?

 

also dayz needs to allow us to use headless clients, to add more if required. That would be a start from what we didn't learn in the beginning of arma.

 

Edited by sneakydude

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12 minutes ago, sneakydude said:

This makes sense. However the server side demands what a player in chero is, to whats spawning around them up north impacts theserver & client in cherno. Even if they don't see it. This is where the CPU bubble has to be reduced around the clients in the area feel.

Remember i am going from what we know in arma to what we don't know will happen with dayz. How much of that will be explored at the time of dayz release and how much we "will beg the devs" to fix the load balance. Headless clients anyone?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but it seems like you're misinformed.

The server-client architecture and the 'network bubble' basically mean that nothing outside of the network bubble is considered by the client. If you are in Chernogorsk and there's a ton of zombies in NWAF, your performance is not affected in any way. Anything that is server-side doesn't affect you in the least, unless the server itself is having performance issues. (Which would be perceived as network lag, not increased CPU usage or FPS drops.)

The ARMA games work in a very different way from DayZ.

Edited by Dancing.Russian.Man
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4 minutes ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but it seems like you're misinformed.

The server-client architecture and the 'network bubble' basically mean that nothing outside of the network bubble is considered by the client. If you are in Chernogorsk and there's a ton of zombies in NWAF, your performance is not affected in any way. Anything that is server-side doesn't affect you in the least, unless the server itself is having performance issues. (Which would be perceived as network lag, not increased CPU usage or FPS drops.)

The ARMA games work in a very different way from DayZ.

Are you sure they are much different? because last i checked it seemed our servers lag the fook out.

I know its early and all but i am not to certain that what we don't see up north isn't impacted down south. Even if we don't feel everything, the server in general still feels it. Which in turn effects the client.

Remember we are so close to beta?? remember 4 months away now isnt it? or 5months i cant remember.

 

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An example how things could be interesting an special ( 28 days later style) :

daytime :

A few ( inactive) zeds randomly spawn across the whole map ( zeds would just idle, sit or slowly walk around)

A high chance to have zeds spawning inside buildings if player enters the building

Additional zeds will only spawn  if there is a lot of noise ( gunfire, vehicles, zombies screaming etc.) zeds would spawn out of sight and then moving towards the noise ( depending on player count and zone)

 

nighttime (including dusk and dawn) :

A few (active) zeds randomly spawn across the whole map ( zeds would wander and run around)

a small chance to have zeds spawning inside buildings if player enters the building

Additional zeds will always spawn around the player (depending on player count and zone )

 

random events :

there should always be a very small chance to spawn no zeds at all or a large group of zeds not depending on any other variable. ( for example no zeds in Elektro but a large group deep in the forest or a small village)  when at least one player is around that is :)

Sqeezorz gave beans to this

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For those of you who are not familliar with "dynamic zombie spawning" here is a short explanation of it's purpose and intent:

In the mod, zombies only existed near actual players, otherwise they would be de-spawned. As you approach buildings, a trigger is set off that causes zombies to spawn within about a 500m radius (mod settings). In the mod zombies "seemed" like they were way more prevalent simply because zombies abroad were always de-spawned from player-less regions and re-spawned near actual players, even though in reality the zombie numbers from the mod were much less than current standalone numbers.

In standalone zombies are persistent (as in they do not require a player to continue existing). They are spread out across the entire map, which makes them appear few and far between for the average player moving across chernarus. On top of these natural zombies, the devs are going to add in the old system as well so that wherever players go, there will be a constant influx of zombies being spawned nearby.

This will make it seem like zombies are everywhere and exist in much higher numbers than they really do.

The setbacks to implementing this are that the spawning mechanics need to be configured right so that players do not see zombies being spawned in and network wise so that it does not cause instability.

That's dynamic spawning in a nut shell.

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Yeah we understood that. 

Zombies are spawned at serverstart and are persistent+old spawnmechanic, per player spawning zombies in like in the mod = dynamic spawnsystem of zeds.

What evans and I say that not only the player should trigger the spawning zombies but also their behavior (noise, lightsources etc). Because when its like that the metagaming wich they want to prevent would still be there. If you see many infected you know there are players.

This metagaming could be prevented by different variables like Evans told before.

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