Minimizing in-game telepathy for more immersive game experience!

[exwoll 255]

We all like the game for the realism it has and the extremely fast way in wich it immerse us in his atmosphere. It's a survival simulator, one of the most realistic ones, but....

I think external communication software ruins that fun acting like real-life telepathy, because:

• unreal communication between ppl at long distances without being detected, even at close distances of them (telepathy);
• impossibility of knowing what the other people is talking and if they're talking. And if they are friendly or not
• no punishment for loud sounds during communication, means no zombie attraction (or other players). It's way unreal in groups

AND  This plays a lot in favor of "bandit" players for disgrace for obvious reasons, and in some degree encourages this behavior.

Now, we all have communication needs, and the game doesn't provide much of them at the moment, but I think it could improve over the time with a couple of fixes that would address the mentioned above things while providing good communication for teams and groups of people:

     1. Change the "press to talk" communication system to "voice detection" . If a player speaks it goes to the game. If he's using other software, it doesn't matter. Cheap, fast and effective solution. This would enable players to seek another options: hand signals for close ranges (2), in-game radio comm devices for medium-long ranges (4), use of alternative mediums (flares, colors, light reflection, etc).

(Note: There would always be cheaters using other pc's, cellphones, or even complex software solutions that make it possible to use 2 microphones at once or create fake microphones and assign them to the game, etc. But this cases could be reported by other players and they would be limited, not mainstream like now)

      2. Implement military hand signals for soundless maneuvers. (move, stop, attack, defend, surround, numbers, etc).

      3. Add a "whisper" option (like pressing 2 keys or something) that would greatly reduce the sound radius. The voice detection will allow to use it automatically, but in cases where the players mic is broken or defective, it would be useful to have a button to suppress sound a little.

      4. Increase the spawn of comm devices to group level (having 2-6 wktk at police or firefighter stations or hospitals), and add other classes of them, like special forces or military comm devices (in-ears ,etc) that could improve the stealth factor .

 

With the implementation of these "easy" fixes I believe the game experience would be way more realistic:

1. better communication between players since everyone would be able to know what the other players have in mind and microphones would be a must for every player :D
2. Less KoS (in some degree).
3. Increase role playing (bandits would have to fake good intentions in their communications, etc, etc) adding a lot of fun to the game.
4. Encourage groups to be creative with their comms. rules in case of being split by attacks or respawning cases. (i.e. we meet at X, we wear armband, we greet with code-word or signal X, we use radio freq. X, etc, etc) adding more realism to the game.

What I propose it's the existence of the following real-life immersive scenarios:

Imagine you're looting with friends, laughing and all, and suddenly one of you hear something, you all shut up and start doing signals or whispering to make an action plan. Or, you're walking in the woods or in a city, when suddenly you hear a comm device conversation like 20m away, you run to cover and see 4 fully geared guys comming from 2 streets with clown masks, searching their next victim. But you keep listening and hear than they just met and are friendly and risk saying hi to them :D.

Now, I know that some people will just turn off their ingame mic (or via steam). But this would have consequences and make them think twice before doing it:

1. No communication with strangers (where's the fun in that?)

2. More prone to be KoS, since they will be unable to answer in time

Plus this could be "punishable" via server, where players with no input data from microphone can be banned :)

 

Hope this could be implemented at least at server level :D

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by exwoll

[Volcanogod 28]

I think this would bolster interaction on RP servers certainly. I would also assume RP'ers would welcome such an implementation, it would certainly be interesting if someone was hiding in the bushes near you and then you heard a door slam and a dog start barking followed up by casual conversation, like how was work ect ect.

 

Despite all the ways that this idea could be circumnavigated the hand signals would be awesome, and maybe you could have the option for a server to be an "open mic" server so RP servers could add another layer to the immersion. I would just imagine that you would have to game in a relatively quiet place in order to avoid external noises from broadcasting over your mic.

The idea is solid for sure.

 

 

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

This sounds like a bad idea, I mean hand signals and whispers are good, but an always open mic isn't.  TeamSpeak/Skype will NEVER go away, stop trying.  They can't legally put something in the code to block a program.  And that thing about banning players without a mic is very unfair.  What about people who simply don't have mics or don't want them?  And this always open mic thing is another problem of privacy and immersion.  Maybe I don't want zombies chasing after me because my 10 dogs in real life are going off on the old ladies walking to the bus stop.  Maybe I don't want a group of bandits to know I'm there because my AC decided to kick into high gear.  Maybe I don't want the bandits I've been captured by hear my door open and my dad ask 'Hey was your Social Security Number 123-45-6789 or 123-45-6790?'  Maybe I don't want to hear the inside of someone's nostril while shitty music and kids are screaming in the background.

[-Gews- 7443]

Number 1 won't work, that would be easy to get around, and I suspect not many people want to play with an open mic. 2, more gestures, sure, but it won't help limit 3rd party communication software. 3, a whisper mode would be useful when playing with randoms. 4, why not. 

You're right, it would be more fair and realistic to only have in-game comms, but like BigMike said, TeamSpeak isn't going away. Preventing 3rd party communication is a pipe dream. Just about everyone uses it.  You can't stop it and Bohemia isn't going to attempt to stop it. That would be a great business decision! 

 

Personally, as a mostly solo player I use the in-game comms almost exclusively—the last time I used TeamSpeak was late 2015—I had to make a squad of 4 strangers sit and wait while I downloaded, installed and configured it.

[BeefBacon 1185]

I don't know what legal issues might be involved with forcing the mic to always be on - it could be considered an invasion of privacy. Plus wouldn't you run the risk of fucking people over? Imagine running sneaking through Cherno and hearing "Timmy, take out the trash!" "Aw moooooom!" or broadcasting the constant loud hum of your potato mic. For people with good mics and who don't live with any people or animals I'm sure it'd be fine, but I don't want to get shot because somebody heard my dog barking.

Plus, as people have said, it could be avoided with relative ease. It'd be nice if everyone only used in-game comms, but people will always use third-party software.

Improving what we have, however, is definitely a good idea. The ability to whisper would be great, and the audio quality really should be improved.

[Konfucious K 183]

Forced mic could never work, background noises and general static and interference would make the game itself sound like it's going through an AM radio. I do think we need whisper option though.

[General Zod 1118]

Quote

   1. Change the "press to talk" communication system to "voice detection" . If a player speaks it goes to the game. If he's using other software, it doesn't matter. Cheap, fast and effective solution. This would enable players to seek another options: hand signals for close ranges (2), in-game radio comm devices for medium-long ranges (4), use of alternative mediums (flares, colors, light reflection, etc).

(Note: There would always be cheaters using other pc's, cellphones, or even complex software solutions that make it possible to use 2 microphones at once or create fake microphones and assign them to the game, etc. But this cases could be reported by other players and they would be limited, not mainstream like now)

      2. Implement military hand signals for soundless maneuvers. (move, stop, attack, defend, surround, numbers, etc).

      3. Add a "whisper" option (like pressing 2 keys or something) that would greatly reduce the sound radius. The voice detection will allow to use it automatically, but in cases where the players mic is broken or defective, it would be useful to have a button to suppress sound a little.

1. Not gonna happen mate, not everyone plays in a quiet environment. External communication exploit will exist, accept it.

2. Sure why not, but which keys ? F's are taken

3. And "yelling" option so I don't have to yell at my PC anymore, my flatmates are already concerned.

[Aim-iliO 7]

Well according to realism:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throat_microphone Ever heard about it? So, its possible to to comunicate with someone over high distances by whispering so that noone else can hear you.

[Booter 6]

While I applaud the OP for his thoughts/efforts on this tricky subject, I'd have to agree the 'open mic' method has many issues.

I propose this idea.
An onscreen icon that represents that a player you are talking to has their mic ON. Much like the white icon you currently see when you open your own mic to speak.
If you were talking to 2 players at once and all mics were open, you would see your own White icon and say 2 Green icons.

This way you would know they have an open communication line to you in game and they would not be able to speak to teammates via skype etc. at the same time as you would hear it simultaneously in game.
If you see their mic indicator disappear (for lengths of time during your interaction), you could suspect they are conversing with other players outside of the game....and you would become suspicious they are plotting against you.

BTW, I'm totally not for more onscreen indicators/cluttering the interface etc...but I think it could be useful to tackle this in game communication issue.

[exwoll 255]

The icon would work too, it could only be visible from close range so people watching from afar wouldnt know if you´re talking to someone else or not. 

Btw, I didn´t said that mic should always be on. I suggested to change the button mode to voice detection (as you can set in TS btw), this will have a threshold to avoid background noise and interference and only work when you´re speaking close enough to the mic. 

I think it would be enough to let modders or servers to change the option for hardcore servers  :)

Edited August 15, 2016 by exwoll

[Arthur Dubrovka 376]

We in our group tried this playstyle several times and it's muuuuch more immersive! Although I think it would be great if everyone talks in-game with high quality mics it never will happen on official servers. Maybe some strict whitlist rp servers can do it... The problems listed above are just not solvable. ( bad mics/no Mic, environment noise, etc...)

[exwoll 255]

Environment noise is quite controllable if a player wants to be serious about it (I mean anyone above 10yo can ask people to be quiet if he's playing, or just close the door with a note) and as I said, the voice detection technology at this point can pretty much differentiate a person voice from other sounds. In TS f.e. I play guitar sometimes and the mic does not recognize the music :). 

The no-mic  or bad mic is a thing of pressure. If the need for a good mic is more than the laziness to go buy a new one, he will buy one (a 1$ Chinese mic headset is enough for a couple of years) . We already have the KOS if no-mic rule that almost every player has, and a lot of people bought a mic just because of this :D

I haven't met anyone yet that would agree to use the ingame comms. Everyone is just "join this ts channel, etC" -.-. I sometimes go to transmission towers and try to find another survivors, or near towns with my walkie talkie. I try every frequency, and the only thing I get is static... but its quite fun hahaha so i'll keep on that.

 

[Just Caused 423]

Automatic voice detection? If I really wanted to disable it, do you think few minutes of coding or running through software programms would stop me? Same goes for gamma, if they disabled changes, what makes you think people won't change gamma on their screens? And also imagine people coming in to your room or loud neighbours having sex in middle of intense gunfight? No. :D

Other suggestions are fine.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Just Caused

[exwoll 255]

If you really want, you can hack Dayz and fly invisible through the sky carpet bombing Cherno. Most players don't even know how to correctly use google (go during nightime into a major city and see how many guys run with flashlights on). Thats why I put in the title the word minimizing :). If someone wants to rob your house, he gonna do it no matter what security systems you have there or if your door is locked or not, but still, you close your doors at night ;),

The idea is to put enough "barriers" so a player will think "ok, I can disable all this shit, but does it worth the time and effort to do it? It's cool how it is, so I guess I'll just stay with it". This is what keeps people doing stuff they dont want in any sphere (you pay a lot of your money in taxes for example, you dont want to, but you do. There are lots of ways to avoid that, but since you have to waste time and effort on that, you just keep paying).

Hardcore servers with admins could also ban people who use 3rd party software as hackers or exploiters. They can be reported by other players (its easy to spot them), plus the game can have the mic usage data.

And last but not least: There are a lot of exploit right now in the game. Almost everyone is aware of them and know how to use them. But still, you see lots and lots of people doing it? Most players just want a genuine experience.

Edited August 16, 2016 by exwoll

[Booter 6]

On 16/08/2016 at 2:12 AM, exwoll said:

The icon would work too, it could only be visible from close range so people watching from afar wouldnt know if you´re talking to someone else or not. 

The other players Mic On Icons could Fade in/out depending on how close they are to you as well.
There is also the concepts of different mic modes like Whispering / Talking / Shouting etc... that all work on distance from each other etc...

I don't think the Always Open mic / Voice Detect mic is a good direction to take this either, it has too many issues.
But knowing that a player has their Mic On when you are working out if you trust each other really solves the issue I believe (Crappy mics and internet connection issues aside), at least you know they are trying to communicate and they can't possibly cheat this method via talking to their teammates at the same time via some other communication tool.

And if your just running with your friends, away from other players, you are still free to use Skype / TS / Mumble etc.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Booter

[Radibor78 26]

The always-on-mic doesn't need to be all or nothing. You do have 1st person only servers as well as 1st/3rd person servers, so there could be "mic always on" servers as well as "classic" push to talk servers. So if you have a quiet environment and like the mic-on-at-all-time approach you can use the mic-on-servers, otherwise use a classic one.

[FlimFlamm 509]

There's some good ideas here, like a whisper option that limits the audible radius of your speech and hand signals for combat.

The radio system is looking to be quite in depth, so a lot will be possible with that if this is the case. PA systems and bullhorns will be incoming at some point. Broadcasting ranges, multiple radio types, player made radio towers too perhaps (and also occupied existing ones) are going to really make the system something to behold.

With that said, players will still use telepathy and get that unfair and immersion breaking advantage of skype or some other program. The only solution to this that I can think of is to find an RP enthusiast server which outright restricts third party communication for in game purposes other than initially meeting up with your friends (or some such). This will be not a problem for the console crowd of course...

[exwoll 255]

I've seen that in Arma 3 some servers use a plugin called "task radio force" (or something like that, can't recall the name atm), that makes users enter a TS server, that uses ingame data about the location of the players, and the devices they use to communicate all the players that are connected to the server. It can also be some kind of solution. But as Radi said: If a server appears with the mic-on option, I would gladly join it :)

[rpatto92@hotmail.com 26]

So there is a potential issue with having always open mics. Not everyone wants their private conversation heard in-game but besides, it's probably not going to fix the specific issue you outlined; things can always be circumvented. However, it would be a nice addition to the server options and good if it were a choice.

[Rekurv 53]

While it does suck that groups can ninja around silently on teamspeak (or whatever VOIP client) without making any noise in game, forcing people to have an open mic is a bit much. Apart from having to listen to people eating, spamming crap music etc., some people just don't feel comfortable communicating for whatever reason. Maybe they are shy or perhaps they speak a different language than the server norm so we cant force people to do something they don't want to do. This would be bad for all of us as it would turn many people away...that's bad for business and bad for players.

Technically this would also spam, for lack of a better word(s), white noise through the microphones and waste lots of bandwidth putting strain on the network.

Having said that, it's an interesting idea, and if I saw a server with this option I would certainly give it a try.

[cirkular 178]

I think there should be a way to make you to use in-game talk only, but only if you want to play that way. It wouldn't be a problem with privacy if it's clearly stated and you agree to it. Like when you click OK or AGREE to terms for some software, you can agree to it or not. That option should be introduced when starting up servers, like choosing between regular or hardcore 1PP mode. For the player it should be visible from the server list that a particular server has this option on. I think the biggest challenge is how to make it developing wise.

I mean, there should be a bunch of options to choose from when starting up the server which could bring more people to Dayz, but still with different tastes. I think that way there should be a favorable type of server for everyone.