How can we fix camping ?

[Zurvivalist 300]

Basic idea here is just to brainstorm a bit about how we may fix camping in DayZ 

It may be a problem that can never really be addressed. But I figured it was worth a shot. So let's hear some ideas 

 Currently our major issue is lack of wilderness space. As amazing as that sounds, with a map this size. We really don't have a lot of places to build camps. That are level enough , and out of high traffic zones. 

 

Personally I feel the glitching methods ( hiding a barrel under water, or in rocks ) Is not a proper solution. 

And I don't like the idea of living out of a couple of barrels stashed inside of trees off in remote places.. It breaks immersion to a certain degree. 

 

And ofcourse to the other end of the extreme spectrum I couldn't really support locking storage units by player id or anything like that either as we seen in the mod days. For the same reason as above. 

 

So for the players that want a proper camp site, .. A tent, a fire pit, maybe a smoke rake for his fish , and a garden plot ... How can we address the issue of being able to hide such things in a way that would make finding them just as difficult as it really should be. 

 

Mind you I'm not talking about Base building or Fortifications , That's an entirely different system altogether . 

 

My personal ideas involve some major changes , 

First the forest areas need to be a LOT more dense , Hopefully someday we will see this happen. I would like to see it go so far as to need a machete to chop down bushes to make a path to walk through certain areas of some forests. Unless you're following a game trail. 

 

The ability to see several hundred meters into a forest in some areas just sucks for gameplay , the woods as they are now really provide very limited cover or protection if that is what you're seeking. 

 A lot more undergrowth could address this issue nicely .

 

 

Secondly , I think we need either new tents, or a crafted item like a ghillie covering, we can make out of natural fibers, ( let's say,, ropes and straw from hay bales ? ... ) Dye the whole thing in a barrel with berries to match your particular surroundings ) And this possible cover should be coded much the same way our current ghillie suits are. But to a more extreme. 

I think the best solution would be to have them not render beyond 50 meters or so. Simply because this would address the video setting exploits . I defend this idea by saying that IRL you should not be able to spot a shelter like that , in an actual forest, It would blend in after a distance and you couldn't make it out.  

 

But those are just my ideas. What do you guys think would work out best ? 

[Rags! 1966]

Oh. That kind of camping.

[Etherious 907]

Oh. That kind of camping.

Yea, I thought the generic "camping" we all know of. I was sharpening my pitchfork for some chaos, but alas it was the real "camping he was talking about. :/

 

[svisketyggeren 662]

Just face the fact...the map is too small for what they want to achieve with the game.

 

I dont know the technical reasons for why they dont expand the map, im sure there are some. I personally would be happy to see a large wilderness area added, miles of forest to get lost in...where u actually had to hunt to survive. Where all this survival gameplay aspect they are developing actually matters, cos it will never matter on the small map we have now. And if they had to make it so that u loaded into this map separate from the orginal map, thats fine. We already have players serverhopping all over the place on public servers...like the game is some kind scifi-shooter with alternative dimmensions.

Edited January 7, 2016 by svisketyggeren

[q.S Sachiel 470]

I was really hoping from back in the mod that someone would tie in a set of cartesianal 'interchange' areas, at the four edges of the map ala STALKER where you'd transition to another map.  Alas, i don't think that kind of thing would happen.

 

On topic: Could have some client-side foliage render, that makes a canopy in areas where certain trees would allow for it.  Shouldn't be conniferous canopy, but for the more 'traditional' tree areas like around Kamenka and the like, perhaps.  I know though, that most of the woods is conniferous though...

 

Other than this, you could move camps 'underground'.  It won't save trucks, and wouldn't really make tents useless.  As long as everyone could find it, and you could cover up entrances with sticks or something that looks camoflauged but can be seen to the discerning hunter, then barrels etc.. could still be used.  Give more weight to the shovel, and a time vs reward system could be used, so that you can just dig a little pit, throw in a backpack or some ammo and cover it up or spend more time and throw in a barrel or two.

Edited January 7, 2016 by q.S Sachiel

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Just face the fact...the map is too small for what they want to achieve with the game.

I dont know the technical reasons for why they dont expand the map, im sure there are some. I personally would be happy to see a large wilderness area added, miles of forest to get lost in...where u actually had to hunt to survive. Where all this survival gameplay aspect they are developing actually matters, cos it will never matter on the small map we have now. And if they had to make it so that u loaded into this map separate from the orginal map, thats fine. We already have players serverhopping all over the place on public servers...like the game is some kind scifi-shooter with alternative dimmensions.

Lol, we don't have to face any fact like that , because real fact of the matter is , that your delusional and nobody sane really agrees with that ..

There's far too many armaholics out there that think this "map is too small" .. I couldn't disagree more , why do people want empty barren map like that crap altis ? What so you can hide your 30 rifles and ten cars in the hillsides somewhere where no one will ever go considering it's so goddamn barren and void of anything interesting? I've played 1500 hours and still get lost in the middle of the map , so it's really just a delusion caused by yourself and many others thinking the map is too small, maybe start enjoying it instead of bee lining from one side of the continent to the next ... Hell I bet you've walked right by my camp inside buildings/ next to hotspots, but yet everyone still complains because you happen to hop too many 3rd person servers and find everyones "hidden" Chernogorsk PVP tents ...

There's a big difference between a camp out in the middle of nowhere and a camp in an extremely popular spot outside of the NW airfield or right outside Cherno/ myshinko tents (which is most likely all the camps you've been finding , honestly if you know the right spot in the woods you would still Agree that there are still nice camping spots on the map) .

[Espa 711]

-Snip-

 

I had an idea after I stole a car and tent from some military guys tonight. .

 

What if as an added bonus to having a tent up in the world, it would allow the player to spawn back on their camp whenever they were killed. - This would benefit players who are working together, are hoarding supplies, and it's an easy access point for regearing. It would definitely save time, that's for sure.

 

What do you think?

[q.S Sachiel 470]

I had an idea after I stole a car and tent from some military guys tonight. .

 

What if as an added bonus to having a tent up in the world, it would allow the player to spawn back on their camp whenever they were killed. - This would benefit players who are working together, are hoarding supplies, and it's an easy access point for regearing. It would definitely save time, that's for sure.

 

What do you think?

I  think it's been discussed before, and the hardcore players hate that idea.  Wilderness wanderers etc...

 

Ultimately though, it does reward hoarding, and dis-incentivises (sp?) intelligent play, as you have a safety net.

There may also be some encouragement for illegitimate item procurement if you're guaranteed to get back to your 1/300 AKMs. (over exaggerated for emphasis, not sure on state of duping/hacking atm).

 

Long story short: nope.  I'd probably also grow lazy and use it, and may - by my own hand - kill off the enjoyment of scrounging as a freshy.

 

Also, if you're talking about being a 'cuckoo' and tagging your horcrux to someone else's tent that you stumble across, i'm very much against, although that would drive 'tent hunting'...

 

Also, again in the negative: while it takes energy to amass that stuff, that system you proposed 'rewards the wealthy'.  In a survival game where everyone is meant to be scrounging over the corpse of a world long dead, this kind of reward for the 'haves' is again, not complimentary to the gameplay/setting IMO.

Interesting, yes, but I don't/wouldn't appreciate where the game would turn to, in my mind.

 

@OP,

netting - didn't see that.  It's a good idea IMO.  That said, i'm sure that the game 'could' work around the standard FPS issue, but my concern is that - in almost every FPS - I can spot emplacements or enemies very very very easily.  Contrasting colour tones is usually what gives it away.  Tents (and even the non-interactable ones at NovySabor for example) stand out crazy obvious, and they're 'camo')... New renderer *may* be able to fix this, or some other work around, but I feel it's good theory bad practice for my eyes.

Edited January 7, 2016 by q.S Sachiel

[Espa 711]

I  think it's been discussed before, and the hardcore players hate that idea.  Wilderness wanderers etc...

 

Ultimately though, it does reward hoarding, and dis-incentivises (sp?) intelligent play, as you have a safety net.

There may also be some encouragement for illegitimate item procurement if you're guaranteed to get back to your 1/300 AKMs.

 

Long story short: nope.  I'd probably also grow lazy and use it, and may - by my own hand - kill off the enjoyment of scrounging as a freshy.

 

 

Fair enough :)

 

My thought was that suddenly tents would become a lot more popular and more sought out, making it dangerous no matter what. - But to depower the benefit, the storage space of the tents could be severely reduced to carry like 20 space, that way players couldn't amass a ridiculous amount of goods. The primary benefit being that you can spawn back to your tent and maybe acquire the one gun you could place in it as well as bullets.

[pillock 850]

I think booby-traps might be part of the answer to camp security (as well as being able to craft foliage camo, as suggested before). If you've got, say, 4 barrels at your camp and you store stuff in one of them with the other 3 wired to some improvised explosives, if someone, even a group, did find your stash, they're less likely to actually rob you.

 

Other than that, reducing player speed would make a big difference. If it takes a long time to traverse the map without a vehicle, people aren't going to find stuff like camps so easily. And people that are in vehicles aren't going to spot them easily anyway. I'd favour the default, most energy (and therefore time) efficient movement speed over longer distances to be walking, once stamina is functioning properly and the survival mechanics are more fleshed out. If long journeys require preparation and time to complete without seriously damaging the health of your character, it will make the map feel much larger and wilderness areas more perilous to cross without the appropriate kit.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

@Espa (I'm getting lazy with quotes)

 

Yeah, but there's only so many tents see?  I think it's an OP mechanic.  If they upped the tent count so that more people could enjoy the benefit, then tents would dot the hills.  That would probably afford you a degree of 'security' as safety in numbers now that every man and his dog has one, but would just be ugly.

 

We'll see, not to shoot you down, just my opinion. :P

Keep the juices flowing!

 

Also, @ netting being too easy to see, foliage camo etc...

Why not just let us plant trees? :)  Modify geometry and / or actual foliage.  Plan out an area that you know will accept a tent, plant your trees... wait for them to reach acceptable height then drop your tent/camp.  Trees out of place are probably harder to recognize than modified topography, and if you make a dense knoll or grotto it's probably going to be obvious, so a degree of artistic and functionality required?

Edited January 7, 2016 by q.S Sachiel

[Mookie (original) 799]

anal 'interchange' areas

 

:huh:

[sneakydudes 278]

Yes, OP i completely agree with you.

Since base building will be an issue right off from the start from offline destruction, unless you go to a private ruled based server base building will be awesome. Much like we had in epoch, and now Exile.

 

Ark has an issue with offline base building destroying and dayz will too. It will take so long to find traps, build barricades, etc..

 

It will boil down to, why bother building anything when someone just clearly will server hop and find the base anyways.

 

Even my base, was found out things taken out. They where some pretty good spots on the map. Still found out because tents are known, and ammo, rare guns are limited.

 

So we gave up :( a green barrel in the tree is much harder to find... end of story.

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

Basic idea here is just to brainstorm a bit about how we may fix camping in DayZ 

It may be a problem that can never really be addressed. But I figured it was worth a shot. So let's hear some ideas 

 Currently our major issue is lack of wilderness space. As amazing as that sounds, with a map this size. We really don't have a lot of places to build camps. That are level enough , and out of high traffic zones. 

 

Personally I feel the glitching methods ( hiding a barrel under water, or in rocks ) Is not a proper solution. 

And I don't like the idea of living out of a couple of barrels stashed inside of trees off in remote places.. It breaks immersion to a certain degree. 

 

And ofcourse to the other end of the extreme spectrum I couldn't really support locking storage units by player id or anything like that either as we seen in the mod days. For the same reason as above. 

 

So for the players that want a proper camp site, .. A tent, a fire pit, maybe a smoke rake for his fish , and a garden plot ... How can we address the issue of being able to hide such things in a way that would make finding them just as difficult as it really should be. 

 

Mind you I'm not talking about Base building or Fortifications , That's an entirely different system altogether . 

 

My personal ideas involve some major changes , 

First the forest areas need to be a LOT more dense , Hopefully someday we will see this happen. I would like to see it go so far as to need a machete to chop down bushes to make a path to walk through certain areas of some forests. Unless you're following a game trail. 

 

The ability to see several hundred meters into a forest in some areas just sucks for gameplay , the woods as they are now really provide very limited cover or protection if that is what you're seeking. 

 A lot more undergrowth could address this issue nicely .

 

 

Secondly , I think we need either new tents, or a crafted item like a ghillie covering, we can make out of natural fibers, ( let's say,, ropes and straw from hay bales ? ... ) Dye the whole thing in a barrel with berries to match your particular surroundings ) And this possible cover should be coded much the same way our current ghillie suits are. But to a more extreme. 

I think the best solution would be to have them not render beyond 50 meters or so. Simply because this would address the video setting exploits . I defend this idea by saying that IRL you should not be able to spot a shelter like that , in an actual forest, It would blend in after a distance and you couldn't make it out.  

 

But those are just my ideas. What do you guys think would work out best ? 

I agree, I feel he has some good points in his post. The hermit game play is a part of dayz. I think some of this will be in the game when it's finished. there is a lot of W.I.P. to be put in the game I do hope that the only PVP people don't win out in the end. I hope that there is room for the live off the land people, after all it's humans trying to not get killed by the infected.

Live long and prosper and don't get infected. 

[gannon46 788]

Oh. That kind of camping.

same thing i thought.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

:huh:

You sir are a butcher...

Have some beans!

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I was really hoping from back in the mod that someone would tie in a set of cartesianal 'interchange' areas, at the four edges of the map ala STALKER where you'd transition to another map.  Alas, i don't think that kind of thing would happen.

 

-snip-

 

I've often wondered why this isn't a viable option.

 

Maybe create a geographical feature like a river that initiates the loading of the next section but in the context of crossing the river so as not to break immersion.

 

I do miss the larger wooded spaces that the original mod map had but I also consider the current map to be superior.

 

A very secure camp spot my friend has kept up will soon be under threat by coming map changes.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

With base building, Large clans will have the advantage for many reasons.

 

In this context they can likely have guards posted day and night to protect the camp from being raided or destroyed.

 

In fact, I believe base building could be detrimental to the perma death aspect of DayZ as people from clans will likely loot a lot less and merely re-gear at a base where the other 1,000 clan members have filled it with loot so they can go PvP again.

[SMoss 2101]

As player count is going to increase later on, it's understandable that it would be nice to be able to hide a small camp a bit better. Nothing has officially been announced yet, but the designers do have something in store for this topic (it looks very promising). Just hang in there, and I'm sure that Brian or Peter will include some info + screenshots in upcoming status reports and on the Trello board.

[Mad Vlad 43]

I wholeheartedly agree with ya Jon. We had this same discussion in our little group last night. Between all of us moving from opposite directions to the castle north of stary we must've found atleast 6 seperate camps under an hour.

Seems like military style camo netting should definetly be in, the models are already in the game and can be found at the nwaf and other military spots.

I really like the idea of denser forests, for most of the map they're just way to sparse and don't feel alive or vibrant. But the idea you've got there with shortening the rendering distances appeals to me too.

All in all there's definetly room for improvement and alternative means of hiding camps.

[Whyherro123 2283]

What the hell are you talking about, " The map is too small"?

 

....

 

Stop going to the same places as everyone else, you knob-end. "The edges of the map" Haven't been a good place to hide shit since the goddamn mod.

 

As soon as my clan plays Day Z together in any meaningful number, we always make a run along the western and northern edges of the map, because that is where every scrublet and their mother tries to hide a camp. I don't think I've picked up a rifle from NWAF/Myshkino tents in the last couple of weeks.

 

Asides from that:

 

1) Go to places other people have little reason to go.

 

Take a look at the region encompassed by Nadezhdino in the west, Pusta in the south, Tulga in the east, and the Black Forest in the north. That region is heavily forested, rugged and hilly, and has essentially no desirable loot spawns. Several patches ago, I played daily, for 2 weeks straight, on a full 50 pop, and asides from the lost freshspawn that wandered up the road and starved to death, I never saw a soul

 

2) Keep on going to places people won't go

 

A couple of weeks ago, my clan found a MASSIVE camp in the woods, northwest of Sinistok. At the end of the only dirt road that leads out of town, we found 3-4 tents, literally 20 or so barrels, and 2 trucks. We only found it because one of our new guys said " Hey, where does that road go?".

 

Roads, no matter if they are marked or even unpaved, are highways straight into the wilderness. They attract attention, as you can see in the above example. If there is a road leading somewhere, someone WILL follow it eventually, "Because it is there". This is why I don't understand why people don't want to build things like lean-tos in the woods, and think that barricading a building is "good enough" for basebuilding. If a road leads to/near your base, it will be found eventually, if just through the existence of dispersion. "high density to low density"

 

3) Keep on going to places people won't go

So, if people will follow roads "just because", where do you set up camp? Off the roads. Don't go to the end of the road, then into the woods to set up camp. That is predictable. Instead, go halfway up that dirt road, then follow a streambed up the hill, then follow the ridgeline for a couple hundred meters,  then set up camp. That way, you won't have 1) a highway leading straight to your base, or 2) limit the area that people have to look. What sounds better: " hey guys, I found a camp off the north road from Msta", or " hey guys, I found a camp at the end of a streambed. I have no idea where I am (hint: streambeds don't show up on Day Z DB or iZurvive)"

 

4) Spread the fuck out

 

Quick, what colors are most of the tents and barrels? Blue, awkward green, yellow, red? Even if they blend in well, they still look like human-made objects, due to the straight edges and deliberately-rounded curves. In "real life", when camping, you are "supposed to" spread out when you set up a campsite, to both 1) have less of an effect on the surrounding vegetation and 2) to not be such a nuisance for other people. What is louder, dirtier, and attracts more attention: A cluster of 4-5 tents, with cooking equipment, storage and other items stacked around, or the same site, spread out, with different areas for different activities ( cooking, then 200 feet away, fireplace, then 200 feet away, sleeping, etc).

In Scouts, pre-built campsites usually have 100 feet between different "spots", to reduce noise and so on. In my summer camp, we have 10 different "campsites", each sleeping 30 people, spread across half a mile of terrain. During the busiest part of the day, you won't even know there is 100 people in the next site, as you can't even hear or see them. Hell, if you want, you can go to your tent and be completely alone from the rest of the people in your site!

 

Such as you should do in Day Z. Place a tent down, then move over 100 feet and place another one. Don't cluster your tents around a  fire or light sources. Trucks can be seen for very far through the woods.

 

The map is plenty big enough for every activity in the game to take place. It is just that probably 1/4 - 1/3, at the very least, of the map goes completely unused. Plus, we can sprint everywhere, full tilt, without stopping. That makes the map feel even smaller. Why people think we need a helicopter is beyond me.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

I'd also recommend using 'decoy's.  Something not so obvious, but more obvious than your better one.  Having it too obvious might invite further search, while if it looks like a lone barrel or tent, then the decoy may work.

 

I don't use camps, i'm more of a nomad.  But in my ignorance i think my idea is great (just ask me) :P.

[Bonappetit 117]

I haven't played it myself but from seeing around the web the map Esseker from some Arma 3 mod is amazing, talking about vegetations and it's density. Just what I would love to see in DayZ.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Miracool

[Rags! 1966]

I think one of the best options would be to simply make the forests and wooded areas more "wooded" looking and realistic. This are some screenshots from Miscreated:

 

 

 

These forest areas look much more dense and real and lines of sight are far shorter than they are in DayZ's very simple wooded areas. Significantly breaking these long lines of sight would go a long way to making forest more interesting and easier places to hide stashes of goodies.

[xalienax 621]

the map is too small for anything over 50 with the deforestation that's already ruined this once-nice map. i keep hearing 100 players tossed around. i seriously hope that never happens (or atleast that most private servers go 50. imho 100 would be stretching it for altis.

 

Encounters should be extremely sparse (unless you seeking them out by going to 'hot zones'). cramming more players into the same space and increasing the rate of encounters will really ruin the game imho- and make encounters not seem like anything special or significant.

[BeefBacon 1185]

I think one of the best options would be to simply make the forests and wooded areas more "wooded" looking and realistic

 

I recall some status report or something mentioning that the number of trees will be increased massively - doubled or tripled or something - once the new renderer or 64-bit architecture or whatever is in place. Looking at the kinds of forests that the ones in Chernarus is based off, however, they seem pretty accurate, but it'd certainly be nice if a few liberties were taken to make forests just a bit more dense.