Shotguns are a Joke.

[Rags! 1966]

I'm trying to get back into DayZ these last few days, thus my casual return to the forums. The last few days have seen me burn through three survivors, each of them dying to gunfire that, in my opinion, simply should not have happened. 

 

Let us examine my most recent death today, but moments ago...I was shot in the leg and damaged, exited the tent in which I stood to face my aggressors in combat. In my hands?

 

A shotgun. An MP-113 with a pistol grip. Truly a potent weapon for close range encounters, right?

 

http://imgur.com/G2UBoD8

 

Wrong.

 

I made this gif fairly high quality for your viewing pleasure, slowed it down so you can see the 12 gauge shotgun shell impact this player at near point blank range.

 

 

 

The player not only survives the shot, but continues to run towards me in Call of Duty fashion, raising their gun and firing at me with their friend. This gif is perhaps a perfect example of the perfect shot made in third person. The target was lined up so perfectly on the curve of the reticle, height was perfect... I was certain they would be dead, and you even see me move my reticule to the next enemy player. I'm ready for a fight, I have my gun up, and a fleshy target foolishly rounds the corner sprinting into my line of fire. 

 

There is no logical reason why this human being should not be incapacitated either by death or sheer trauma from a point blank shotgun shell. 

 

Exhibit B...

 

http://imgur.com/R76FDcK

 

Player eats a 12 gauge shotgun shell at point blank range, it ruins his shirt, but leaves him both alive and conscious. This one from a double barreled sawn off shotgun. 

 

And yet...if those shells don't kill players, then how does this one do just that?

 

http://imgur.com/994KtwM

 

Hip firing a sawn off shotgun kills a guy with one shell at that range.

 

But perhaps the most egregious offender of all of them is this... 

 

http://imgur.com/uoEqqkY

 

...and moments later...

 

http://imgur.com/cY6mwXf

 

After the target was blasted at point blank with this sawn off shotgun, rocks and debris come out of his body mysteriously. Perhaps the pellets all hit his Derringer pistol in his hand and missed him? Then he is hit at point blank range while stationary in the side of the body, and still is able to walk away seemingly unscathed. The body squirts blood but the player still survives. 

 

I am sure that everybody who has used shotguns has questioned their reliable effectiveness. I understand the nature of a scattergun is random at times, but these examples are ridiculously unpredictable. Players show a resilience to damage that rivals a Halo Spartan in what is supposed to be a realistic game. Shotguns are deadly. Shotguns are not close range only killers. They are weapons of awesome destruction that can kill easily a target forty meters away. Unshielded fleshy humans wearing cotton and polyester should not be able to survive shotgun blasts at point blank, and Chernarus is a large enough playing field that the damage of shotguns can be afforded to reach out to sizable distances. 

 

There is no reason why I should tell myself "Don't use a shotgun in close quarter combat because it's not lethal enough". I understand that hitboxes and desync are big issues in DayZ at the moment, but when these problems are resolved...it is important that 12 gauge buckshot is not relegated to a "niche" role in firepower capabilities. A shotgun should be consider a high risk/high reward weapon, punishing misses with reload times and rewarding hits with massive damage. 

Shotguns will FUCK UP YOUR DAY. The low capacity of the shotguns in this game should be balanced by longer reload times but a very high damage output and spread matching the barrel lengths of the weapon. 

 

Yes, I understand that balance is not a priority at the moment, but the existence of threads like this will keep such notions in the minds of players and Devs so that it is never forgotten or relegated to a secondary priority when the Beta arrives in 2016. 

 

 

 

 

 

[gannon46 788]

every game i have ever played has crap shotguns not sure why i always figured if they made them like they actually are folks would whine and cry and say they are OP. I agree i would love the shotgun to be what it should be close range death.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

I agree , shotguns need a boost bad !

Edited November 1, 2015 by Grapefruit kush

[Whyherro123 2283]

The lack of "shotgun love" upsets me as well. Outside of blackpowder muskets and bows, shotguns are my "favorite" weapon in real life, and used to be my go-to weapon in Day Z. I would willingly forgo an Assault rifle + magazines for a MP133 with shells. My clanmates would make fun of me, until we got to a city and my shotgun would roflstomp enemies into the dirt. I would regularly get kills with buckshot on moving targets at 30 meters, several patches ago. MP-133 (usually full-sized. I liked having an additional 2 shells in the magazine, over the "handiness" of the fun-size version) as a primary, with a sawed-off as a secondary. Anything within 30 meters could get turned into paste by 8 blasts of awesomesauce. I could outshoot assault rifles with the damn thing!

 

Now, you have zero reason to pick them up, even removing the proliferation of other firearms from the equation. They just .... aren't "good" enough to be worth the space. Like what you post above, players can just literally laugh off 12G buckshot to the torso. 12G buckshot is essentially the go-to self-defense round for "close quarters" (read: within 20-30 meters) basically the world over. A "standard" 12G buckshot shell has 9 buckshot balls approximately equal to 9mm rounds. There is no way you should be able to survive that, much less with zero advanced medical care. Of course, players are goddamn Terminators in this game, and would complain to High-Heaven if they actually, you know, suffered realistic wounds (get shot? Die. Get stabbed? Probably die. Blood loss doesn't stop instantly. Don't keep a wound clean for an "authentic" period of time? Infection, you are probably going to die. ETC) from any weapon in this game, so I doubt it will ever happen.

 

I just want slugs :(

[Whyherro123 2283]

every game i have ever played has crap shotguns not sure why i always figured if they made them like they actually are folks would whine and cry and say they are OP. I agree i would love the shotgun to be what it should be close range death.

 

What, exactly, do you consider "close range"? A "standard" 12G 00 buck shell can easily kill a deer-sized (read: a person) target out to 30-40 meters (read: 100 - 130 feet). Factor in the different chokes available, and you could get that even farther. 

 

 

Shit, this guy makes a lethal buckshot kill on a deer-sized target at 80 fucking yards.

 

And, even if a buckshot pellet doesn't turn your liver into a fine paste, getting buckshot punched through your intestines and limbs will 1) hurt like HELL (send you into shock) 2) knock you out and 3) pretty much guarantee a death due to infection.

[S3V3N 1402]

It doesn't look like a perfect shot to me in the first gif. You didn't lead the shot, so it passed him and probably the engine registered a strafing shot to the back or shoulder. It's always hard with the desync to tell where a player actually is. But aiming where he's going is never wrong.

The one where you blow up the gravel from the ground is kinda the same. Player goes backwards, yet you shoot in front of him. No perfect hits and a part of the buckshot went off into the ground. It just looks a bit weird. 

 

I don't know when I ever used a shotgun, I usally don't even pick them up - maybe I will when zombies return. At most I have a sawn off shottie as my backups backup, because I too get better results with a pistol. Shotgun shells are a bit easier to find, but the CR75 is really no problem either. I won't argue with you about how shitty shotguns are, hence nobody uses them. But I don't see perfect hits in your images, either. Shotgun should do alot more splash damage and knock out, but I think weapons will get a massive overhaul in the Beta, since now they only do damage based on caliber. Perhaps we'll get better shotguns then. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by S3V3N

[Rags! 1966]

It doesn't look like a perfect shot to me in the first gif. You didn't lead the shot

 

Lead the target? 

 

12 gauge buckshot travels at around 1145 feet per second. The target was about fifteen feet away from me. That means that the time it would take for the buckshot to impact the target would be mathematically within the realm of "about instantly".

 

I don't have to lead that target. You can tell that once you fire the shotgun, the curved section of the reticule disappears, and the shotgun itself rises from recoil. Then after that, the impact is made where the target was standing where he was struck.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Rags

[S3V3N 1402]

Lead the target? 

 

12 gauge buckshot travels at around 1145 feet per second. The target was about fifteen feet away from me. That means that the time it would take for the buckshot to impact the target would be mathematically within the realm of "about instantly".

 

I don't have to lead that target. You can tell that once you fire the shotgun, the curved section of the reticule disappears, and the shotgun itself rises from recoil. Then after that, the impact is made where the target was standing where he was struck.

Believe me, in this engine you want to lead any target. They are never really exactly at the position you are shooting at. So shooting in front of where people run is gonna be more successful than shooting at where they are/were.  

[Mullraugh 1151]

 You didn't lead the shot, 

 

You shouldn't have to lead a shot for a guy who's a meter away...

 

Edit. Someone's already taken notice to that lol

Edited November 1, 2015 by mullraugh

[Kirby12352 67]

I've had this happen to me before too. I shot a new spawn who was about 10 feet away from me in the torso with a shotgun and he just kept coming. I can deal with not dying instantly from a bullet from a pistol or something, seeing as it's more than possible to do so, but if someone shoots you in the stomach with a shotgun, it's game over for you. But nope, apparently characters in the game can just take a blast from a shotgun at 10 feet away.

[emuthreat 2837]

I used to always carry a sawn-off as a close combat/door camping weapon, and they used to work beautifully for knocking someone's legs right out from under them.

 

Now in .58, I go through all the trouble of finding a hacksaw, and an Izh shotgun, only to find that I should have just used a disposable makarov instead.  What was once my favorite weapon/security blanket, is now a snipe hunt.

 

Next time, I'll just try throwing a can of tactical bacon at the enemy, and see if that performs any better...

[Herkyl Puuro 52]

As I told in another thread a guy survived 4 shots and killed me. First two hit his legs from 20 meters away and second two hit center of his torso from 2 meters, while he was lying prone. I think his leg was at least broken but can't honestly be sure about even that, seeing how it is with these weapons now. This was 3-4 weeks ago and haven't used much shotguns since. Maybe a .22 would work better than shotgun.

[Rags! 1966]

 Maybe a .22 would work better than shotgun.

 

Guess what I'm going to bitch about in my next thread.

[yazar8 584]

isn't the whole impact stuff a bit weird?

 

I literally see blood floating in the air and the impact is not even where the player is. Why? I mean in real, is this even possible? The blood would be where the target is and the impact would not be just "floating in the air" Probably the reason is you can't actually get shot and continue running like that.

 

At a scene like this we are discussing the lethality of the shotguns, but the scene itself isn't realistic at the first place. And yes, shotguns are a joke.

 

Am I the only one here who knows that a shotgun will tear your body up in the pieces and probably kill you as soon as you are shot?

Edited November 1, 2015 by Yazar8

[Yuval 221]

A few weeks back, I killed a fully geared M4 guy with a pistol grip shotgun. I dunno - seems like it's mostly usable in close distances.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

every game i have ever played has crap shotguns not sure why i always figured if they made them like they actually are folks would whine and cry and say they are OP. I agree i would love the shotgun to be what it should be close range death.

The only good one was R6:Ravenshield.

 

Even then it was rather unpredictable at times, but the m3 / spas12 / usa12 were my go-to's.

 

But yeah, in games like battlefield it's basically a waste of time.

[jayfkay (DayZ) 185]

shotgun pellets do no damage to limbs, they just break them. apparently it has always been like that and thats the reason they arent that good.

still deadly if u land a torso shot

[edwin3 74]

1. all the non-lethal shots in the op hit from the side, the one-shot kill came in from the front. I suppose hit detection registered a hit to the arm. in addition, its hard to visually judge how many projectiles hit, but the one in the first pic doesnt appear to be a "perfect shot" to me - there would be more blood from a full hit. Lastly - in case you didnt hear bout that - desync is still a known isuue.

2. i agree shotguns seem to be nerfed.

3. the whole damage system is getting replaced - where is the sense of this discussion?

4. reality-blahblah doesnt make good game-design. any weapon in the game would most likely incapacitate a normal human after one hit and most likely lead to death at least in the long run (infections/ internal bleeding, cant run from z´s or players, hard to gather supplies etc). Thats not specific to shotties.

5. i personally like the actual behaviour of the shotties. its not a fire-and-forget-panic-button anymore. i started to aim -> i started to kill

 

greets

[maximumak777 (DayZ) 23]

Probably desync. .58 has very bad desync. Use UMPs for close range, they 1 shot

[PieceOfDust 11]

That's desync, my friend. Happened all the time *shaky old man voice* back in my day.

 

I once encountered desync so bad that someone I was unloading my AKM into was able to run up to me, take my DMR out of my backpack, and kill me with it before he finally collapsed.

[Killawife 599]

I got one shot by a pistol grip shotty yesterday. And I was moving and shooting a shitload of cr75 bullets into the person, spurting blood all over. I was energized and hydrated but had taken a lot of damage earlier although I had healed from it. So that one time it worked fine. I have bad experience with them myself though, sometimes they work great, sometimes nothing happens.

[KenoSkir88 181]

I love my 133, though i tend to only use it for building clearance / confined spaces. Inside a house a shot from a 133 will ruin the vast majority of peoples day :thumbsup:

[Jex 1104]

The only good one was R6:Ravenshield.

 

Even then it was rather unpredictable at times, but the m3 / spas12 / usa12 were my go-to's.

 

But yeah, in games like battlefield it's basically a waste of time.

 

Pretty good in Insurgency :)

[Jex 1104]

Sounds like the shotgun needs to go through some actual testing rather than using these examples as any definitive proof. Need to test on static and moving targets, ideally.

[Bororm 1156]

I've pretty much made this same thread multiple times now, to the point where I don't bother any more.  Seems like every other patch they are fucking up shotguns some how, even though I don't think they're actively doing anything to them the majority of the time.  So I really don't understand why they are such a mess compared to other weapons.

 

 

I gave the double barrel another chance last night and it failed me miserably.  Shot a guy twice at about 20m or so.  The first shot, only one pellet hit and it hit his rifle in his hands.  The second one, it looked to be about 4 pellets hitting.  2 in his chest, 2 in his legs.  I saw his clothes ruin and blood, he didn't care and shot me down then talked shit about "how did you think that was going to go?"

 

I did have some success a few weeks ago inside a house, where I blasted 2 or 3 guys down, but it was basically head shots at about 5m.

 

There was a rumor in another thread that shotguns do no damage to players limbs this patch.  I don't really believe that but would be interested if anyone tested it.