Stable Branch - 0.58 Discussion

[barnabus 1708]

Right. Since the 0.58 hotfix, I've been playing some other things to mix it up (Ark, Arma 2, etc.) with some DayZ sprinkled in, too. It's always good to take a break so you don't get burnt out on it, and now is as good of a time as any I say :)

Same, same, he say right (sorry, been reading The Sand Pebbles).  I have been doing H1Z1, which is so much like Rust used to be...  except with CS grenades, I love those things, great way to get rid of those idiots that don't know what PVE means...

Edited October 7, 2015 by Barnabus

[OrganGrinder 89]

 It's the nature of the beast ... when you touch one bit of code, invariably, you break three (or more) other bits.   :(

 

No, that is not the nature of any given (code base) beast... though it may be for this beast.  If code is organized well, separation of concerns is applied and unnecessary dependencies are kept to a minimum then the expectation should be that any given change will have a minimal impact on other, seemingly unrelated areas.  

 

This has been a sneaking suspicion of mine from the start with this game - that there is enough inherited mess of entangled code that the gradual replacement of modules, functionality etc. has been more onerous than originally expected.  I have nothing but empathy for these devs if true.

[BleedoutBill 1636]

No, that is not the nature of any given (code base) beast... though it may be for this beast.  If code is organized well, separation of concerns is applied and unnecessary dependencies are kept to a minimum then the expectation should be that any given change will have a minimal impact on other, seemingly unrelated areas.  

 

This has been a sneaking suspicion of mine from the start with this game - that there is enough inherited mess of entangled code that the gradual replacement of modules, functionality etc. has been more onerous than originally expected.  I have nothing but empathy for these devs if true.

Normally, I would agree, but in this case the entangled bit is the engine, itself. Remember, we started with a monolithic engine and the devs first attempted to modularize it and now they are attempting to write replacement modules.

 

Honestly, one wonders if starting with a clean sheet of paper wouldn't have been a better approach, but we're not in a position to judge. The one thing that we can agree on, is that the devs have undertaken an absolutely MASSIVE project, surrounded by a multitude of rabbit holes.

[IMT 3190]

No, that is not the nature of any given (code base) beast... though it may be for this beast.  If code is organized well, separation of concerns is applied and unnecessary dependencies are kept to a minimum then the expectation should be that any given change will have a minimal impact on other, seemingly unrelated areas.  

 

This has been a sneaking suspicion of mine from the start with this game - that there is enough inherited mess of entangled code that the gradual replacement of modules, functionality etc. has been more onerous than originally expected.  I have nothing but empathy for these devs if true.

I disagree with that. Alpha is in development a stage where the engine is made, features are added, etc. In this development stage the software can experience many and/or huge bugs or can be (partially) broken.

If you change something this big in the engine a lot of things might and probably will break.

When the engine is done this won't happen anymore, at least not often.

About the last part, I do agree. I have seen the source code of 0.45 or something which was leaked. It has a lot of bits of Arma 2, some other games and new things from the standalone.

I have a lot of respect for the developers that they can work with in that mess, perhaps they cleaned it up.

Edited October 7, 2015 by IMT

[Tatanko 5591]

This has been a sneaking suspicion of mine from the start with this game - that there is enough inherited mess of entangled code that the gradual replacement of modules, functionality etc. has been more onerous than originally expected.  I have nothing but empathy for these devs if true.

If you haven't yet, I would recommend watching the presentation C. Torchia gave a little while ago at DevGAMM called "Surviving Success." He spends quite a bit of time discussing what they began with and how the team has evolved until now, and makes it a point to say that almost no usable documentation was passed down. Though he's specifically referring to the art team, I imagine that probably applies to many areas of the game including programming.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Gotta hope these devs are playing dayz .59 super secret experimental version In a villa somewhere near CZ , most likely all drinking and smoking ... Please invite us Dev team , we love parties too ! But yes to target the ongoing arguement of engine entanglement , I think their doing a great job and know that eventually what they are doing with old and new engines will be exactly what dayz needs (and not some fresh new unreal engine coding as if they started completely fresh). Maybe it's just a hunch who knows but dayz is just gritty but also beautiful and very open world and no other engine seems to get that (unreal does but it's too over used IMO).

[Dudester100 448]

Its been awhile since i played dayz im still waiting as well for a new patch been playing metal gear solid 5 lately this game has me hooked playing it pretty much all day everyday for the past few weeks its more addictive then whatever kush is smoking  :P Im looking forward to sharing some good times with you guys again in the new patch to come.  B)

[OrganGrinder 89]

I disagree with that. Alpha is in development a stage where the engine is made, features are added, etc. In this development stage the software can experience many and/or huge bugs or can be (partially) broken.

If you change something this big in the engine a lot of things might and probably will break.

When the engine is done this won't happen anymore, at least not often.

About the last part, I do agree. I have seen the source code of 0.45 or something which was leaked. It has a lot of bits of Arma 2, some other games and new things from the standalone.

I have a lot of respect for the developers that they can work with in that mess, perhaps they cleaned it up.

 

Good software design applies at every level of development - what I refer to is not specific to being in alpha.  You could be right regarding the "engine" (that term is a bit amorphous for me) if it is a true replacement and the current devs did not fall into programming anti-patterns.  If they chose to modify something existing to get it to work with other, newer modules then they would still be inheriting any root mess in the engine code, right?

 

I don't want anyone to think I am dissing the developers - again, I suspect they doing their best to work with inherited problems.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Its been awhile since i played dayz im still waiting as well for a new patch been playing metal gear solid 5 lately this game has me hooked playing it pretty much all day everyday for the past few weeks its more addictive then whatever kush is smoking :P Im looking forward to sharing some good times with you guys again in the new patch to come. B)

I haven't play mgs since 3! Such a great series ... And yea I got the good stuff :) .. Cant wait to play with the experimental group again though !

[jayfkay (DayZ) 185]

Same, same, he say right (sorry, been reading The Sand Pebbles).  I have been doing H1Z1, which is so much like Rust used to be...  except with CS grenades, I love those things, great way to get rid of those idiots that don't know what PVE means...

H1z1 is a mess and cannot compare to Rust Legacy by far. Had to get that out. Team BR does have its uses tho :P

 

So which new modules are likely to find their entrance with 59? Or would you guys rather assume we wont get any for now?

[OrganGrinder 89]

If you haven't yet, I would recommend watching the presentation C. Torchia gave a little while ago at DevGAMM called "Surviving Success." He spends quite a bit of time discussing what they began with and how the team has evolved until now, and makes it a point to say that almost no usable documentation was passed down. Though he's specifically referring to the art team, I imagine that probably applies to many areas of the game including programming.

 

For reference, I think this is the one you refer to:  http://www.dayztv.com/video/dayz-devgamm-2015-dayz-with-chris-torchia-surviving-success/

 

Thanks, I will check it out.  That does interest me.

[Luc1fer 53]

Maybe there still tweaking it to get some Z's back in, that would certainly be worth the wait.  :rolleyes:

Edited October 7, 2015 by Luc1fer

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

For reference, I think this is the one you refer to:  http://www.dayztv.com/video/dayz-devgamm-2015-dayz-with-chris-torchia-surviving-success/

 

Thanks, I will check it out.  That does interest me.

 

 

This was one of the most informative DayZ development videos and I hope most people here watch it.

 

It helps draw into scope many of the unforeseen problems that this project has encountered and talks about the measures used to solve them.

[Thurman Merman 726]

So at some point over the weekend, on the private server where I spend most of my time, apparently many barrels despawned - including all 17 of mine (to be fair, hadn't checked on 4 in a week, but the other 13 were in place on Friday).  Then, this morning, I fell off a cliff taking my smersh combo, hunters, and M4 to my grave.  On the upside, this morning, there are odd lootsplosions everywhere - walked into one shed and found 4 batteries, 3 plugs, 2 barrels, and a ton of little stuff.  

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

i have 650 hours in dayz and i'm using 58 to see parts of the map i haven't seen yet . so i will know the map better when the game is updated .

[freethink 984]

So at some point over the weekend, on the private server where I spend most of my time, apparently many barrels despawned - including all 17 of mine (to be fair, hadn't checked on 4 in a week, but the other 13 were in place on Friday).  Then, this morning, I fell off a cliff taking my smersh combo, hunters, and M4 to my grave.  On the upside, this morning, there are odd lootsplosions everywhere - walked into one shed and found 4 batteries, 3 plugs, 2 barrels, and a ton of little stuff.  

 

 

Sounds like a persistence reset (which I only recently found out was a thing admins can do)

Edited October 7, 2015 by freethink

[VahidkinG 192]

Sounds like we are not getting .59 today. Somethings telling me its delayed to next week.

Well, i have dota and apb reloaded to play so iguess its okey.

[creamycowboy 139]

So at some point over the weekend, on the private server where I spend most of my time, apparently many barrels despawned - including all 17 of mine (to be fair, hadn't checked on 4 in a week, but the other 13 were in place on Friday).  Then, this morning, I fell off a cliff taking my smersh combo, hunters, and M4 to my grave.  On the upside, this morning, there are odd lootsplosions everywhere - walked into one shed and found 4 batteries, 3 plugs, 2 barrels, and a ton of little stuff.  

This happened to our private server as well. We only have 2 admins, the server owner said he didn't do it .. haven't gotten anything out of the other admin so .. no idea what happened.

[GaryWalnuts 1680]

hmm some steamdb activity again

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

8pm is a false positive.

 

I forget exactly why but I think Barnabus pointed this out.

[barnabus 1708]

H1z1 is a mess and cannot compare to Rust Legacy by far. Had to get that out. Team BR does have its uses tho :P

 

So which new modules are likely to find their entrance with 59? Or would you guys rather assume we wont get any for now?

Don't take me wrong brother, I pretty f'ing far from singing praise for H1Z1..  I am a SWG Refugee, SOG or whatever they call themselves now wounded me deeply with NGO, CU I could live with NGE was a f'ing disaster....  I am a DayZ guy through and through.  PVE in H1Z1 is really no challenge whatsoever and base building is over the freaking top.

[barnabus 1708]

8pm is a false positive.

 

I forget exactly why but I think Barnabus pointed this out.

You mean the daily activity for Dayz on Steam DB?  It was happening at 0200 CET but that changed after the hotfix...

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

You mean the daily activity for Dayz on Steam DB?  It was happening at 0200 CET but that changed after the hotfix...

 

 

Hmm, ok, right on; I wasn't so sure that wasn't still a thing.

 

Thanks.

[IMT 3190]

Good software design applies at every level of development - what I refer to is not specific to being in alpha.  You could be right regarding the "engine" (that term is a bit amorphous for me) if it is a true replacement and the current devs did not fall into programming anti-patterns.  If they chose to modify something existing to get it to work with other, newer modules then they would still be inheriting any root mess in the engine code, right?

 

I don't want anyone to think I am dissing the developers - again, I suspect they doing their best to work with inherited problems.

They are creating/created a whole new engine for the DayZ Standalone because the engine of Arma 2 had it's flaws and restrictions. They are slowly going to replace the old modules with new ones, until everything is replaced.

During this period we might see a lot of bugs but most will be already removed before it hits experimental.

[Woody1888 22]

was there not ment to be a status report yesterday?