How would you feel if 1st person perspective was mandatory?

[Whyherro123 2283]

Wait a minute.  You don't know how to switch the view to 3pp in COD?  Noob.  Come back when you finish primary school.  3pp COD is tha beez kneez.   ;)

 

I remember playing MW2 in 3PP. It was pretty awesome, actually.

[Deathlove 2280]

I voted "absolutely disgusted by it".

 

Let me tell you there are both 3RD person and FPS. No one is forcing anyone to play ether. I enjoy being able to choose which server type to play on for different feels of the game. Forcing ppl to choose only one server type because a few hardcore players refuse to stick with what they like is not the best way to go about it.

 

 

Anyhow, are we striving for a much realistic game here, or a half-a$$ed game like H1z1?

Cant really agree with you on this part. There in a much EARLIER alpha stage than we currently are. We have been at this now for almost 2 years in a row now and are currently in a huge engine game transfer giving this game much more time to develop and grow considering H1Z1 was only just released this year. And i find that game to be more desirable in certain aspects over this one. And have no problem switching between the 2 at various times. Each game has there flaws and strengths right now.

[too-easy 56]

I would absolutely love and it would bring the game to a whole new level.

The poll also crealy shows that 3pp should be removed.

A poll in a forum shows what all the players think? lol

34 voted for it.

How many people play the game?

I am happy that the people in this forum won't make the decision. Most seem to think that their own oppinion is the only truth and that they know ecactly why soneone else likes to play 3pp.

Oh and all 3pp players are noobs and cheaters anyways. Let's just ban them all. Silly noobs.

[emuthreat 2837]

A poll in a forum shows what all the players think? lol

34 voted for it.

How many people play the game?

I am happy that the people in this forum won't make the decision. Most seem to think that their own oppinion is the only truth and that they know ecactly why soneone else likes to play 3pp.

Oh and all 3pp players are noobs and cheaters anyways. Let's just ban them all. Silly noobs.

I'll share with you a little wisdom about how public decision making processes work.  The squeaky wheel gets the oil.  Consider the current state of U.S. politics.  Any large entity that has enough money to pay people to constantly interact with lawmakers on a personal level, has a tremendous advantage in determining the outcome of legislative actions.  This is commonly referred to as lobbying, where those with the most interest and interaction in the process, have disproportionately more influence, compared to the average community member.

 

Unlike the disgraceful quagmire that is the American Plutocracy, the DayZ forums don't require large sums of money to pay people salaries for the purpose of securing and maintaining meaningful influence in the process.  These forums are free to all, and only require modest time expenditures.  This means that the people who care enough about their satisfaction with the finished product to regularly discuss their wants and woes, will have more of a footprint in the collective consciousness of the DayZ community.

 

EDIT: dotted an "i"

 

TLDRL: IF YOU CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO VOTE, THEN I GUESS YOU DON'T VALUE YOUR OWN INPUT AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD LIKE OTHERS TO VALUE IT.

Edited May 29, 2015 by emuthreat

[too-easy 56]

The only way to find out what the majority of players wants would be to force them to vote the next time they start DayZ.

Without a vote they wouldn't be able to play.

I am pretty sure about what the result would be.

But game development is not a democratic process. The developers decide, not the community.

A poll where only estimated 0.001% of total players leave a vote is not really representative.

[Coheed_IV 381]

 IF YOU CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO VOTE, THEN I GUESS YOU DON'T VALUE YOUR OWN INPUT AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD LIKE OTHERS TO VALUE IT.

Besides forum polls being stupid............... the devs have already said this will never.......happen.

[zeotrope 76]

If implemented (hypothetically) I would buy each and every DEV a case of Stella Artois

Cheers  

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Stella Artois

 

[emuthreat 2837]

A poll where only estimated 0.001% of total players leave a vote is not really representative.

Sure it is... But it only represents those who wish to be heard, and seize the opportunity to speak.  Doesn't mean their opinions will have any impact, but they definitely will have a much better chance of being heard, than those who say nothing.  And yeah, 3pp is here to stay, but it still may see some *improvements.

[pilgrim* 3513]

In fact I understand it's the other way around:

- the 1pp players are lobbying to have 3pp altered so they can move over from 1pp to 3pp servers, and then the 1pp servers can be closed down completely.

 

Most of these "God-Hates-3pp" you-must-play-like-me evangelist 1pp players say they would like to play 1pp servers full time but there are no players on there.

Lol

So they want to force 3pp into a kind-of 1pp shape, then they can come play with everyone else.

 

anyway - the result is, the 1pp players want to close down the 1pp servers.

 

xx

[DocWolf 146]

Concerned. Unless there are major upgrades to a lot of mechanics and features directly and indirectly involving combat mandatory first person servers would deeply concern me.

 

Not because 1st person is unplayable (at the moment it just look ugly and not user friendly as hell) but because the game would suffer economically if at launch the only perspective implemented would be 1st person. Simply take a look at 3rd and 1st person servers: the community clearly prefer the first ones for various reasons.

[Rauchsauger 94]

As a 3PP player I have to say that I am not offended by this statement at all and find it to be a very accurate generalization when it comes to 3PP players reaction to 3PP removal discussions.

People have a hard time looking at things objectively. This is alpha and I am approaching this experience with a 'what is best for the game' mindset...not 'what is best for me'. Which I think is why I am one of the few 3PP players that openly admit that the current 3PP camera is game breaking and 1PP just makes more sense.

Also, I don't view 1PP as a FPS camera. I have played many games that are 1PP and not FPS. 1PP camera is used when devs are looking to fully immerse you in the world they have created. It is a camera perspective used in horror and simulation genres regularly. Of which DayZ is both.

 

The problem is that some people want to push their believes on others.

There are 1pp and 3pp servers and I can use 1pp on 3pp if I want to. If you cannot stand dying and have to blame "peekers" or whatever (since that was clearly not your fault...)

you can always play on 1pp only. I am curious why those most vocal here apparently do not play on 1pp only?

I play both and I could not care less: In 1pp I feel more safe - in 3pp I have to take care more and have to live with the fact that a walled yard makes for superior position and the "walls have eyes".

(But that goes both ways - done right It can be my advantage) But that is my choice since I can alway choose between the two.

 

Please get over yourselves and just do not participate in gamemodes you do not like - without telling other people what they should do with their time.

 

(1pp sadly is clunky and should be smoothed out immensly which might have more people play 1pp.)

[p4triot 207]

This game should be 1st person ONLY, but with this engine can't be 1st person. And let me explain why.

 

- Behore anything, we all notice how 1st person in this game doesn't feel as natural as it does in any other game. Your vision is very narrowed, you feel like a midget, anymations are, and im trying to be polite here, unsynched at best. You droop to the floor and can't see shit over the grass (have you ever played paintball or airsoft? Aint no problem in watching over the grass when laying on the floor).

 

All this is a engine problem, and let me explain why this happens:

 

Why do we feel like a midget:

In any other game, 1st person and 3rd person are based on DIFFERENT 3d models. This means, when you switch to 3rd person, your character model changes to a one swited for 1st person. It is not only a camera move, but a complete change of camera position, 3d model, model position, animations, everything. This is due a very simple reason, the usual image you see when playing 1st person (right arm & weapon usually) is not possible as long as your looking from your eyes. 

 

This is fixed by creating a new model, one model designed specifically for 1st person where you can see parts of your own body you couldn't with the 3rd person model and 1st person view.

 

However, ArmA developers, due to lazyness or unconsciouness, decides they ain't gonna do new models for 1st person, so they switch to a more easily way to add 1st person. Move the camera and thats it. But, to see your arm, the camera cant be in your eyes. Easy! lets put the camera at the base of your neck!. And thats why you feel like a midget.

 

Why the narrow vision:

This one is a easy one, FOV is really narrow in ArmA. Though there's also an added problem when switching to 1st person. In any other game, where 1st person has its own models as stated before, the camera isn't actually set at your eyes, but at the back of your head, allowing you some extra space which enhances the peripherical vision feeling. But since ArmA doesn't use 1st person models, moving the camera to the base & back of your neck would just give you a close vision of your nape.

 

And why the animations?:

Again, easy one. Remember the GTA V developers said they had the redo about 5000 animations for the game when adding the 1st person? Well, ArmA developers dont do that. They use the same animations for 1st person as for 3rd person. Now look at Battlefield 3 or 4, watch the same animation (like reloading) from 1st person. Perfectly synched, neat, cool. Now watch the same animation from a 3rd person view (have a friend do it in front of you). Floating (or even invisible) magazines, floating hands not really touching the weapon, unsynched sound... sound familiar?

 

This game should be 1st person ONLY, but with this engine can't be 1st person. Thats why I voted no.

Edited May 29, 2015 by p4triot

[8bit_Survivor 93]

Great post p4triot. You have some valid points conce ring differect modes for 1PP cameras. I don't see your FoV narrowing in 1PP though. That depends solely on you FoV slider setting I believe. Didn't they also fix the camera being at your neck level by situating it at your eye level in DayZ?

[p4triot 207]

Great post p4triot. You have some valid points conce ring differect modes for 1PP cameras. I don't see your FoV narrowing in 1PP though. That depends solely on you FoV slider setting I believe. Didn't they also fix the camera being at your neck level by situating it at your eye level in DayZ?

 

Nope they didn't. Try it on a window. Crouch in front of the window and use 1pp, you can't see over the window. Now switch to 3pp, not only you can see over the window (well with 3pp what would be normal even while crawling) but notice how your head is above the window base edge, allowing any outside sniper to blow it off if the wanted you. If your camera was trully on your eyes you would be able to see through the window when in 1pp.

 

The same can be noticed with road signs, 1pp looks like the sign is above your head, 3pp you can see the sign and your head at the same height. Midget feeling.

 

Regarding the FOV. If you enhance the FOV to gain enough peripherical vision in 1pp the image is distorted looking like you had long arms like Mr Fantastic. This is fixed again with a 1pp models specifics for 1st person view, this, and backening the camera position to the back of your head, and you have the very same FOV feeling than in any other 1pp game. It's not magic, 3pp will always have more peripherical, but it's something.

Edited May 29, 2015 by p4triot

[-Gews- 7443]

Didn't they also fix the camera being at your neck level by situating it at your eye level in DayZ?

It wasn't at the base of the neck, it was always around eye level. The reason people feel "like a midget" is because [1] they're used to flying a dozen feet off the ground and [2] some buildings aren't correctly scaled.

 

[THESTANAG 0]

1st person sucks in this game. That's why no one plays it. It is a herky jerky mess. I really don't understand why this dichotomy exists within the community, it's the same game from two perspectives.

I've played both, and I prefer 3rd person... the end result is the same. Each perspective has an advantage and disadvantage, and everyone that plays has the SAME ADVANTAGE AND DISADVANTAGE.

All this talk about seeing around and over walls... SO WHAT? Everyone can do it. This talk about going for realism.... really? You sound like my wife who doesn't like horror movies because they are too real... please, this is a video game.

This sounds like a vocal minority trying to sway the development team to do what they want and screw everyone else.

Anybody watch Sacreal play? All the 3rd PP bashing he spouts, and his preaching of how awesome 1PP is, he is a tool for the vocal minority. A decent entertainer, but an average player. If 1PP was so amazing, the "hardcore" servers would be full. The fact is, they are not because there is nothing hardcore about "hardcore". If anything should be removed it's 1PP and fix it to at least make it playable for the few that prefer it and stop calling it hardcore, it's really dumb.

[svisketyggeren 662]

How would you feel if 1st person perspective was mandatory?

 

I would say the game is finished and ready for release...bring it

Edited May 29, 2015 by svisketyggeren

[Evil Minion 943]

All this talk about seeing around and over walls... SO WHAT? Everyone can do it.

That's not the point. The point is that it (1) creates bad gameplay because of the asymmetrical vision and (2) makes the choice between 1st/3rd person not only a matter of preference. Yes, everyone can do it but this doesn't make it less of a bad thing that keeps the game down.

 

As comparison: Everyone can server hop and combat log as well.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Evil Minion

[THESTANAG 0]

That's not the point. The point is that it (1) creates bad gameplay because of the asymmetrical vision and (2) makes the choice between 1st/3rd person not only a matter of preference. Yes, everyone can do it but this doesnn't make it less of a bad thing that keeps the game down.

 

As comparison: Everyone can server hop and combat log as well.

I really do not understand your point. Creates bad gameplay? Look at the number of people playing 3PP vs 1PP. If the gameplay were bad, then they wouldn't have sold millions and with the .55 patch then NO ONE would play, not even 3PP.

I contend that 1PP is a terrible implementation and that is why no one plays it, even before the latest patch on stable.... 3PP players outnumbered 1PP at least 10 to 1.

According to the dev's, they are encouraging server hopping as they have indicated parts for vehicles might be spread across servers, and combat logging is just a cheap and stupid tactic. Both server hopping and combat logging will happen if the game is 1PP only, so your comparison is jsut rediculous.

[8bit_Survivor 93]

-Snip-

The difference in play between 3PP and 1PP is substantial.

Evil Minion was not saying that 1PP would stop server hopping or combat logging. He was using them as examples that just because everyone can do it doesn't mean it is in the best interest of gameplay.

Edited May 29, 2015 by 8bit_Survivor

[Evil Minion 943]

^This.

...

Sorry to say that but your reply is lacking in the logic department.

 

Third person is more popular but that does nothing to disprove peeking creating bad gameplay. There are multiple reasons to play on third person (including the one you just mentioned with first person lacking in some regards). There is exactly one reason to play on first person only servers and that is peeking.

 

People are playing first person. There are players playing on first person only servers and there are also players using the first person perspective on third person servers as well. You only count the first person only server players.

 

Server hopping and combat logging in the current state are very similar to peeking: you exploit an intended game mechanic (server switching, third person view) to gain an advantage (faster looting at less risk, avoiding death or gaining an advantage in combat, looking around corners/over walls while staying invisible). Calling one cheap while saying "what's the point? everyone can do it!" on the other strikes me as slightly hypocritical. Also by your logic nobody would play on public servers because of this.

 

Now server hopping is something I would like to address again as it was (and hopefully still is) planned to use server connections for a greater loot economy and and make rare (parts of) items spread across multiple servers. However, with the current implementation switching servers creates an extremely fast and low risk way to get from one place to another compared to ingame travel where you can get shot, lose energy and water and have to walk for quite some time. It basically works like some kind of teleport feature that speeds up looting immensely. How to solve it? Add a significant cost to the use of inter-server travel to make it (at least) comparable to intra-server travel in terms of efficiency.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Evil Minion

[Bonappetit 117]

If there was "I would get use to it, no biggie", would vote .)

[THESTANAG 0]

^This.

Sorry to say that but your reply is lacking in the logic department.

 

Third person is more popular but that does nothing to disprove peeking creating bad gameplay. There are multiple reasons to play on third person (including the one you just mentioned with first person lacking in some regards). There is exactly one reason to play on first person only servers and that is peeking.

 

People are playing first person. There are players playing on first person only servers and there are also players using the first person perspective on third person servers as well. You only count the first person only server players.

 

Server hopping and combat logging in the current state are very similar to peeking: you exploit an intended game mechanic (server switching, third person view) to gain an advantage (faster looting at less risk, avoiding death or gaining an advantage in combat, looking around corners/over walls while staying invisible). Calling one cheap while saying "what's the point? everyone can do it!" on the other strikes me as slightly hypocritical. Also by your logic nobody would play on public servers because of this.

 

Now server hopping is something I would like to address again as it was (and hopefully still is) planned to use server connections for a greater loot economy and and make rare (parts of) items spread across multiple servers. However, with the current implementation switching servers creates an extremely fast and low risk way to get from one place to another compared to ingame travel where you can get shot, lose energy and water and have to walk for quite some time. It basically works like some kind of teleport feature that speeds up looting immensely. How to solve it? Add a significant cost to the use of inter-server travel to make it (at least) comparable to intra-server travel in terms of efficiency.

How exatly does peeking create bad gameplay? That's what 3rd person is about. The other guy can peek you as well.... Again.... how is this bad gameplay? It's fair to both players.

It's DIFFERENT gameplay, enjoy the crappy first person implementation, don't vomit on the gameplay most people want to use. Wait till they fix/polish 1PP and then play to your hearts content.

I contend, there is nothing...NOTHING wrong with 3PP gameplay. Asking the devs to move the camera because 1PP are pissed that their beloved gameplay mode is fubar and have to "settle" for 3PP is really, really silly.

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

The only way to find out what the majority of players wants would be to force them to vote the next time they start DayZ.

Without a vote they wouldn't be able to play.

I am pretty sure about what the result would be.

But game development is not a democratic process. The developers decide, not the community.

A poll where only estimated 0.001% of total players leave a vote is not really representative.

Shouldn't matter. In a realistic game like DayZ the developers should force players to play in 1st person and not the cheating mode that is 3rd person.