Experimental Update 1.13 (Changelog)

[Derleth 1357]

On 6/20/2021 at 3:16 AM, THEGordonFreeman said:

I ran DayZ servers for years and on great hardware with less than 20 players, standard vanilla vehicles were never consistent.  So unless you are playing on a server with very few others, vehicles are not consistent.  I know this for fact, first hand knowledge of running mutiple DayZ servers for years.  Even now, I know several current large communities that are trying every trick in the book to keep players from constantly bitching about vehicles and losing gear.  It is fact, that community servers are basically keeping this game alive.   Mods like car cover should not be needed to keep the server from tanking and vehicles in place.  It's a workaround.  The Devs SHOULD have fixed this years ago.

One annoying thing is that it really doesn't matter how good your hardware is, all it takes is one player on shit internet to destabilise the simulation. Devs refuse to admit it - their mantra has been that it is all about server performance - but my experience is that desync will trigger vehicle crazyness just as much or more so than poor server performance. On a server with shit hardware you can trust vehicles to be constantly terrible, the desync troubles are far less predictable since they can strike at any time. My experience is that it often happens when people are logging on or off, or when someone with really bad internet enters your network bubble. As long as everyone are on decent connections all works well, but then there's some net burp somewhere and mad stuff happens.

So yeah, dayz netcode still needs some work and I doubt vehicles will become much better before that happens. Logically you'd think the vehicle simulation could have failsafes in place to make server realise that "wait here now, this is physically impossible, something's up here" and do a server-side reload to snap stuff back in sync. The meme videos are funny and all but that the simulation is allowed to go haywire to that extent is kinda weird...

Edited June 21, 2021 by Derleth

[Dwardo Rodregez 14]

I would love to understand the logic where messing about with Zeds n guns take priority over fixing the Major issues such as the vehicles. Why waste time and resources on anything else?? Its madness...

Unless its either not possible and never will be and they will not admit it, or they simply dont have the skills....................................... What other reasons could there be?

Edited June 21, 2021 by Dwardo Rodregez

[McWendy 675]

14 minutes ago, Dwardo Rodregez said:

I would love to understand the logic behind messing about with Zeds n guns take priority over fixing the Major issues such as the vehicles. Why waste time and resources on anything else?? Its madness...

Unless its either not possible and never will be and they will not admit it, or they simply dont have the skills....................................... What other reasons could there be?

Because the infected and guns are core ingrediënts and vehicles are not. 

Is vehicles behaving badly annoying? Yes very much so.  Does it conflict with the core of the game? No. 

The infected and guns still (yes i know after so many years its Just BS) need tweaking to make the experience of the core gameplay better. Whereas vehicles are Just transport.

[Derleth 1357]

1 hour ago, McWendy said:

Because the infected and guns are core ingrediënts and vehicles are not. 

Is vehicles behaving badly annoying? Yes very much so.  Does it conflict with the core of the game? No. 

The infected and guns still (yes i know after so many years its Just BS) need tweaking to make the experience of the core gameplay better. Whereas vehicles are Just transport.

That, plus the sad reality that the current DayZ team aren't equipped to do anything about physics.

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

 

1 hour ago, McWendy said:

Because the infected and guns are core ingrediënts and vehicles are not. 

Is vehicles behaving badly annoying? Yes very much so.  Does it conflict with the core of the game? No. 

The infected and guns still (yes i know after so many years its Just BS) need tweaking to make the experience of the core gameplay better. Whereas vehicles are Just transport.

The maps are relatively hundreds of miles big and vehicles are not a core ingredient?  That is a silly statement.

Vehicles are beyond annoying.  There would be few players on these huge ass maps without vehicles, you can bank on that.  Transport is JUST as important as that new fangled hat or that shiny golden AK.  You need a vehicle to get around on Chernarus/DeerIsle and other maps.  You need a vehicle to transport base building material to most areas.  And when you raid or loot a big mil area, a vehicle is damn near required to carry everything with you.  Since the mod, vehicles have been just as important as the Zeds.

[McWendy 675]

39 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

 

The maps are relatively hundreds of miles big and vehicles are not a core ingredient?  That is a silly statement.

Vehicles are beyond annoying.  There would be few players on these huge ass maps without vehicles, you can bank on that.  Transport is JUST as important as that new fangled hat or that shiny golden AK.  You need a vehicle to get around on Chernarus/DeerIsle and other maps.  You need a vehicle to transport base building material to most areas.  And when you raid or loot a big mil area, a vehicle is damn near required to carry everything with you.  Since the mod, vehicles have been just as important as the Zeds.

No you dont. Does it make everything easier? Yes sure it does. But you dont need it. Do we need infected and guns? Yes we do. Therefore core for the one and flavor for the other. 

If you want to build a Castle in the middle of nowhere maybe but still its not a necessity in comparison of the tweaking of infected and guns. 

Dont get me wrong i like vehicles but that was not the point of my reply towards the Guy that said vehicles need more attention then the infected and/guns. That's simply not correct. 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

14 minutes ago, McWendy said:

No you dont. Does it make everything easier? Yes sure it does. But you dont need it. Do we need infected and guns? Yes we do. Therefore core for the one and flavor for the other. 

If you want to build a Castle in the middle of nowhere maybe but still its not a necessity in comparison of the tweaking of infected and guns. 

Dont get me wrong i like vehicles but that was not the point of my reply towards the Guy that said vehicles need more attention then the infected and/guns. That's simply not correct. 

Agree to Disagree.  But you cannot deny the fact that without vehicles people would tire of the running simulator quickly.  In my opinion, vehicles have held this game back for far too long.   Guns and zeds are fine compared to the state vehicles are in.

[McWendy 675]

25 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Agree to Disagree.  But you cannot deny the fact that without vehicles people would tire of the running simulator quickly.  In my opinion, vehicles have held this game back for far too long.   Guns and zeds are fine compared to the state vehicles are in.

In 7 years ive had a working vehicle 5 Times. Their not worth the hassle and dangers that come with it. Imo.  And truth be told no map is that big you cant run anywhere in under half an hour. You cant deny that. 

But I do agree with you that vehicles (working) are good to have. I remember the bus (working) and it gave some Nice encounters and rp possibilities. But I dont agree with that Guy who posted that said vehicles need more attention then the infected and guns. 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

1 hour ago, McWendy said:

In 7 years ive had a working vehicle 5 Times. Their not worth the hassle and dangers that come with it. Imo.  And truth be told no map is that big you cant run anywhere in under half an hour. You cant deny that. 

But I do agree with you that vehicles (working) are good to have. I remember the bus (working) and it gave some Nice encounters and rp possibilities. But I dont agree with that Guy who posted that said vehicles need more attention then the infected and guns. 

Well they need a helluva lot more attention than hats and brooms.  That's for damn sure, and you can't deny THAT!

[Derleth 1357]

46 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Well they need a helluva lot more attention than hats and brooms.  That's for damn sure, and you can't deny THAT!

True, but should the guys who make hats and brooms sit on their hands while the team waits for the Enfusion crowd to fix the physics? Because by all accounts that is the situation - the physics and netcode issuses that, among other things, occasionally cause cars to fly are engine-side issues and the DayZ team don't have any people working on that. If and when Bohemia decide to supply the necessary resources we might see some action in that department, but until then whe'll have to make do with bugfixes, balancing, polish and the odd flavour item. Yelling at the team is barking up the wrong tree, they can't do anything about the situation. Meanwhile - now this is 100% hearsay grabbed from a website publishing so-so reliable "leaks" mind you - Ylands has something like 5 times the manpower of the DayZ team...

If that is actually correct there's someone in BI management that need to get their priorities straight. Nobody plays Ylands...

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

4 minutes ago, Derleth said:

True, but should the guys who make hats and brooms sit on their hands while the team waits for the Enfusion crowd to fix the physics? Because by all accounts that is the situation - the physics and netcode issuses that, among other things, occasionally cause cars to fly are engine-side issues and the DayZ team don't have any people working on that. If and when Bohemia decide to supply the necessary resources we might see some action in that department, but until then whe'll have to make do with bugfixes, balancing, polish and the odd flavour item. Yelling at the team is barking up the wrong tree, they can't do anything about the situation. Meanwhile - now this is 100% hearsay grabbed from a website publishing so-so reliable "leaks" mind you - Ylands has something like 5 times the manpower of the DayZ team...

If that is actually correct there's someone in BI management that need to get their priorities straight. Nobody plays Ylands...

So basically no one should say anything about the obvious problems?  I'm not speculating on what some Youtuber says, I'm spittin' facts.  These vehicles have been BROKE AS F! For far too long.  It's not my job to understand how BI works, nor is it yours, we play the games they make.  If it's screwed up, we should say so.  I could give a flying flip about YLands.... I actually own it, and haven't played in 2 years.   I play DayZ almsot daily.  I want it to work.   And the best way to get it to work is to voice my concern to the devs who visit this forum and plead to fix the vehicles.  They can go to bat with the higher ups, that's their job.    IF BI wants to spend money frivously on a game that no one plays, so be it.  But they will hear from me on the games I do play that are broke.   BI.... fix the damn vehicles.

[Derleth 1357]

1 hour ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

So basically no one should say anything about the obvious problems?  I'm not speculating on what some Youtuber says, I'm spittin' facts.  These vehicles have been BROKE AS F! For far too long.  It's not my job to understand how BI works, nor is it yours, we play the games they make.  If it's screwed up, we should say so.  I could give a flying flip about YLands.... I actually own it, and haven't played in 2 years.   I play DayZ almsot daily.  I want it to work.   And the best way to get it to work is to voice my concern to the devs who visit this forum and plead to fix the vehicles.  They can go to bat with the higher ups, that's their job.    IF BI wants to spend money frivously on a game that no one plays, so be it.  But they will hear from me on the games I do play that are broke.   BI.... fix the damn vehicles.

I'm just saying the team know about these issues and are absolutely unable to do anything about it. Yelling at them here over and over again does absolutely no good whatsoever. If I had the channel to do so I would certainly want to have have words with whatever suit it is who makes these decisions, but I won't heckle the team anymore about it. They know vehicles are broken - and I trust that if and when they can do something about it they will do so without further delay. I don't mind them doing other things in the meantime, that's all.

Edit: I mean you are certainly right that being quiet about it does no good either, but the barking should be directed at BI management, not the tiny dev team who are actually doing awesome stuff with DayZ right now all things considered.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Derleth

[McWendy 675]

3 hours ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Well they need a helluva lot more attention than hats and brooms.  That's for damn sure, and you can't deny THAT!

Who in their right mind would deny that? 🙂

 

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

1 hour ago, Derleth said:

I'm just saying the team know about these issues and are absolutely unable to do anything about it. Yelling at them here over and over again does absolutely no good whatsoever. If I had the channel to do so I would certainly want to have have words with whatever suit it is who makes these decisions, but I won't heckle the team anymore about it. They know vehicles are broken - and I trust that if and when they can do something about it they will do so without further delay. I don't mind them doing other things in the meantime, that's all.

Edit: I mean you are certainly right that being quiet about it does no good either, but the barking should be directed at BI management, not the tiny dev team who are actually doing awesome stuff with DayZ right now all things considered.

After all the iterations of Arma 2 and Arma 3 and now DayZ, I have had it with trying to get the suits to do anything.  The dev team has to make the pleas to the suits to get things fixed.  The suits ain't listening to the peons and never have like you or me.  You say they know about it, please find some quotes of them acknowledging vehicles are a crapshoot and they are going to fix them eventually.   You won't find any.  How would we know that THEY know and are going to do something about it?

[McWendy 675]

Yeah communication has always eluded the devs. 😞

 

[6032 7]

Overall very, very happy with the 1.13 changes so far.

A couple of random things:

• IMO military zombies hit slightly too hard
• Speed of curing an infection from bandaging with dirty rags should be quicker. (As the impact is quite severe over a long period)
• The M16 A4 burst is perfect. It feels and sounds authentic
• I haven't see this mentioned but there looks to have been change to the state of doors - whether they are open or closed. E.g after a server restart all doors would be closed, now it seems randomized to whether they are closed/open.

I'm not  a fan of this as it was the primary way of gauging player activity. You could use the door state as clues in tracking down other players. It also rewarded a careful playstyle - closing doors after you looted a building leaves no indication that anyone is around. Entering a military base and seeing doors open instantly puts you on edge and into high alert mode.

All this disappears if the open/closed state is just random.

 

 

 

[ImpulZ 2491]

7 hours ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

You say they know about it, please find some quotes of them acknowledging vehicles are a crapshoot and they are going to fix them eventually.   You won't find any.  How would we know that THEY know and are going to do something about it?

Let me not take you literally, because we probably did not use that exact phrasing, but we've acknowledged the issue several times. Some examples are here and here. This state is still ongoing, sadly.

I also see that you continue to derail the Experimental discussions to hammer on this topic. While we understand player's frustrations about the vehicle problems, this does not put you above the guidelines in terms of spam, cross-posting, and bumping topics of your personal interest. So please keep your "reminders" at a decent level without distracting from actually relevant community feedback. Rest assured that your opinion is received and noted, but everything beyond that is just you yelling the time at the clock, figuratively speaking.

50 minutes ago, 6032 said:

I haven't see this mentioned but there looks to have been change to the state of doors - whether they are open or closed. E.g after a server restart all doors would be closed, now it seems randomized to whether they are closed/open. 

This is intentional, sadly in previous builds we had to simplify it due to an error related to the saving of locked doors. That one should now be resolved, so we can randomize door states to make player-presence less predictable. It shouldn't be the case that you have to rely on meta-gaming logic like "there was a restart 5 minutes ago, so all doors should be closed". While I have to admit that "all doors open" will probably still alert you of player presence.

[William Sternritter 449]

1 hour ago, 6032 said:

 

• I haven't see this mentioned but there looks to have been change to the state of doors - whether they are open or closed. E.g after a server restart all doors would be closed, now it seems randomized to whether they are closed/open.

I'm not  a fan of this as it was the primary way of gauging player activity. You could use the door state as clues in tracking down other players. It also rewarded a careful playstyle - closing doors after you looted a building leaves no indication that anyone is around. Entering a military base and seeing doors open instantly puts you on edge and into high alert mode.

All this disappears if the open/closed state is just random.

 

This is the state of doors for some time now, as far I'm aware, and yes I too used it as clues to player activity. On the other hand, we know for a fact that infected do not spawn in unless players are present. So really, if you're scouting ahead you will always know if someone else is there simply by having or not having infected spawned it. Or bodies laying around of course. I spend some hours overlooking a city just to test this out and infected always gave players away. 

[andro_dawton 36]

2 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

This is intentional, sadly in previous builds we had to simplify it due to an error related to the saving of locked doors. That one should now be resolved, so we can randomize door states to make player-presence less predictable. It shouldn't be the case that you have to rely on meta-gaming logic like "there was a restart 5 minutes ago, so all doors should be closed". While I have to admit that "all doors open" will probably still alert you of player presence.

Love to hear that. Shouldn`t it be a part of the changelog? Very cool feature.

My dream DayZ would have doors which open and close random in very bad weather conditions, too. Would add scarry athmospehe. 🙂

Edited June 22, 2021 by andro_dawton

[Private Evans 1303]

20 hours ago, Derleth said:

True, but should the guys who make hats and brooms sit on their hands while the team waits for the Enfusion crowd to fix the physics? Because by all accounts that is the situation - the physics and netcode issuses that, among other things, occasionally cause cars to fly are engine-side issues and the DayZ team don't have any people working on that. If and when Bohemia decide to supply the necessary resources we might see some action in that department, but until then whe'll have to make do with bugfixes, balancing, polish and the odd flavour item. Yelling at the team is barking up the wrong tree, they can't do anything about the situation. Meanwhile - now this is 100% hearsay grabbed from a website publishing so-so reliable "leaks" mind you - Ylands has something like 5 times the manpower of the DayZ team...

If that is actually correct there's someone in BI management that need to get their priorities straight. Nobody plays Ylands...

Fucking China does 🙃

 

[Dwardo Rodregez 14]

10 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

Let me not take you literally, because we probably did not use that exact phrasing, but we've acknowledged the issue several times. Some examples are here and here. This state is still ongoing, sadly.

I also see that you continue to derail the Experimental discussions to hammer on this topic. While we understand player's frustrations about the vehicle problems, this does not put you above the guidelines in terms of spam, cross-posting, and bumping topics of your personal interest. So please keep your "reminders" at a decent level without distracting from actually relevant community feedback. Rest assured that your opinion is received and noted, but everything beyond that is just you yelling the time at the clock, figuratively speaking.

This is intentional, sadly in previous builds we had to simplify it due to an error related to the saving of locked doors. That one should now be resolved, so we can randomize door states to make player-presence less predictable. It shouldn't be the case that you have to rely on meta-gaming logic like "there was a restart 5 minutes ago, so all doors should be closed". While I have to admit that "all doors open" will probably still alert you of player presence.

Thanks for chipping in. 

Could you provide some kind of rough, very rough estimate of when these game breaking fixes will be resolved? Just so that those of us who think its a deal breaker can not bother checking in until? 

My process is usually wait for a new release. check to see if vehicles are still stuffed and check out till next time, and the time after that :)

[thepoey 193]

20 hours ago, Derleth said:

True, but should the guys who make hats and brooms sit on their hands while the team waits for the Enfusion crowd to fix the physics? Because by all accounts that is the situation - the physics and netcode issuses that, among other things, occasionally cause cars to fly are engine-side issues and the DayZ team don't have any people working on that. If and when Bohemia decide to supply the necessary resources we might see some action in that department, but until then whe'll have to make do with bugfixes, balancing, polish and the odd flavour item. Yelling at the team is barking up the wrong tree, they can't do anything about the situation. Meanwhile - now this is 100% hearsay grabbed from a website publishing so-so reliable "leaks" mind you - Ylands has something like 5 times the manpower of the DayZ team...

If that is actually correct there's someone in BI management that need to get their priorities straight. Nobody plays Ylands...

I feel like for the BI higher ups, the problem is that DayZ is a one time revenue stream, with diminishing returns, and they don't want to put the money into development to allow for new maps or content that could potentially be monetized. The DayZ community would absolutely not stand for microtransactions, so the short sighted BI perspective is that games like Ylands and Vigor are worth more time and investment, because they have a constant revenue stream. 

Obviously that's just speculation, but  it seems obvious that if BI just invested more overhead into DayZ instead of slowly picking it apart across the course of its development, it would ultimately probably generate more sales and revenue because it would be a better product and generate better word of mouth. It's pretty clear at this point, that The Devs working on the game are still doing so because they care about it and this community (and its employment), and BI is simply allowing them to do so because its probably a minimal cost with some return. At the beginning of the year, the team was supposed to be expanding, but who knows how that played out.    

[amadieus 315]

Just saw this video on the uncon state in 1.13: 

Why is the unconscious state just 7 seconds? That is way too low to even tie someone up or disarm him. Can't see how this improves gameplay. Even more shocking is how this DayZ YouTuber seems to support it.

[ZBA 66]

Agree. Unconscious should be longer around 30~ sec depend of damaged body part

[6032 7]

15 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

Let me not take you literally, because we probably did not use that exact phrasing, but we've acknowledged the issue several times. Some examples are here and here. This state is still ongoing, sadly.

I also see that you continue to derail the Experimental discussions to hammer on this topic. While we understand player's frustrations about the vehicle problems, this does not put you above the guidelines in terms of spam, cross-posting, and bumping topics of your personal interest. So please keep your "reminders" at a decent level without distracting from actually relevant community feedback. Rest assured that your opinion is received and noted, but everything beyond that is just you yelling the time at the clock, figuratively speaking.

This is intentional, sadly in previous builds we had to simplify it due to an error related to the saving of locked doors. That one should now be resolved, so we can randomize door states to make player-presence less predictable. It shouldn't be the case that you have to rely on meta-gaming logic like "there was a restart 5 minutes ago, so all doors should be closed". While I have to admit that "all doors open" will probably still alert you of player presence.

Interesting, thanks for the explaining the logic behind it. I can understand the desire to remove the meta even though it  will take some adaption.

Just on the cars - there's a silent majority who couldn't give a xyz about them. It's annoying (and unproductive) to have every post overtaken by a vocal minority insisting that it's the no. 1 issue despite being a feature few people use. (due to the effort required in assembling/maintaining.)