Experimental Update 1.02.151010

[FreshmeatDK 22]

Went out on Exp for the first time since January, to see what the fuss was about. My personal and biased opinion on the two main points of contrition on this thread:

1) Personal light: I like the idea, but as others have pointed out, it is a tad to bright. I spawned in at Elektro, and tossed my flare when I saw another light. I could move around relatively easy without bumping into every wall, but lost my way and went in circles several times. However, out of the city I lit up a torch and looted the houses on the way to the dam. Doors had already been opened, so I had little hope but great thirst. Turned out that several cans, ammo, and a knife was still around, probably missed by people going in without a light.

I would like it so I had to fumble a bit more and miss more things when I opted to move in darkness, but I think the principle is sound as a stand-in for that spatial awareness that cannot be conveyed in a game. I used to be a boy scout and have spent several nights out without artificial light, and the feeling was about correct if the lights where turned down somewhat.

2) Damage: At the cabins near the dam I took what I guess was a shotgun blast at pretty close range. The sound of the gunshot felt extremely loud, but then again I was playing in a quiet room. My health drops to a sliver, but I am not knocked unconscious. This might have been due to the moped helmet I was wearing, but I was able to toss my torch and run away.

Again, I cannot tell whether the shot came at longer range and I only got hit by a few buckshot, but I think I at least should have lost my footing from pure nervous reaction, giving my assailant opportunity to finish me off. This, however, should have a large random factor included. The sources I have found at the university library all point to that ballistic trauma is a highly erratic process, and the statistics show that for the military, one in five survives a gunshot to the head, and half those shot in the chest. This is of course a higher proportion than those that would survive without body protection, but it shows that you cannot be sure to incapacitate a person by hitting him with a bullet. On the other hand, some individuals die from a single .22 hit. I feel that this should be within the scope of the game, and I think it would heighten tension. Right now a player with a plate carrier and a helmet is absolutely safe going up against someone with a pistol, if it was not so we might see people plan things a bit more before attacking players with low quality gear.

Edited April 3, 2019 by FreshmeatDK
Spelling

[ImpulZ 2491]

16 hours ago, LoveAffair said:

Does this mean that the temperature and weather system is working ? I was getting soaking wet with Gorka top on …. So I was wondering what the story is.

While there is still some balancing to do, the most drastic change compared to 0.62 is that raincoats etc do not provide protection for the complete body any more. Also damage states can influence how fast certain clothing gets wet.

18 hours ago, 0.64 Freerider said:

We are at 75% (34 votes) in favor of having this new artificial "personal night light" removed, with 11% (5 votes) wanting to keep it and 13% (6 votes) wanting it to be modified. Given, that according to this, the vast majority want it removed, will the dev-team revisit the issue before making a decision regarding the 1.02 update to stable?

We are aware of the criticism on the night light and we will continue to balance it. But it will not be removed for now, as the previous dark night was evidently discouraging players from playing during night time. Our goal is to find a compromise between making light sources important, while offering enough overview for players in the dark (there are many reasons for players to end up without a light source at night) to make conscious decisions on where to go and/or acquire a light source.

Also, please try to avoid chain-postings, you can reply to multiple comments in one reply.

16 hours ago, krazikilla said:

The weapon damage got terribly weakend since 0.63.  I am not sure though if its the too low bullet damage value or maybe the too high t-shirt (cothing) defense value.

There are several more factors playing into that, such as shock damage and hit registration. We are looking into the video reported above.

[TAMW 57]

5 hours ago, IMT said:

Did you see the video? He shot him straight in the head and he survived. In the fucking head. Don't tell me that tells you "bullet damage is fine".

No I didn't until now, but I have not personally experienced anything close to this myself. I have to believe this has something to do with hit registration or desync, not bullet damage.

I very often use 9mm and .380 weapons and I usually kill in 2-4 hits, depending on where I hit.

[Guy Smiley 534]

Wow, the devs wont remove it because people are butthurt about having to use a light source at night?  Good job at selling out Bohemia.  

[Relic77 30]

I do wonder what next step will be, first personal light source then personal gun and personal food etc etc etc. Then there won't be any reason to loot anymore 🙂

 

Thoose players should play PUBG instead of trying to make a survival game into a BF game

Edited April 3, 2019 by Relic77

[kopo79 426]

maybe people should start to complain that we dont want to die in this game,we hate dying...maybe devs make us immortals.
but what is realistic?if there is no moonlight in presence or stars,is it really pitch black dark?

[aux7 234]

27 minutes ago, kopo79 said:

maybe people should start to complain that we dont want to die in this game,we hate dying...maybe devs make us immortals.

to the strains of Queen " who wants to live forever "       . .  .   There can only be one

 

cough . . . I'll get my coat.  . .

[ImpulZ 2491]

33 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

Wow, the devs wont remove it because people are butthurt about having to use a light source at night?  Good job at selling out Bohemia.  

That's not what was said.

2 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

Our goal is to find a compromise between making light sources important, while offering enough overview for players in the dark (there are many reasons for players to end up without a light source at night) to make conscious decisions on where to go and/or acquire a light source.

Also there's some trolling popping up, please keep the discussion on point.

[kopo79 426]

what if....:bound that personal light thingy just when your character is walking...?so if you jog or sprint,there is no additional light....but when walking,personal light is active.
it would be like that when you move slowly you can concentrate more on surroundings....and reduce a bit that light and add also fade in/fade out between movement.
thanks.what i win?

edit:also crouch and prone maybe should have then this extra "concentrate light"

Edited April 3, 2019 by kopo79

[kudrosh 0]

20 hours ago, SlipShady said:

I don't know how you're searching it but I have no problem finding a spark plug. Like every damn time I find one in the first city I'll be in. They're really easy to find but not to spot, always check your UI inventory to see if it is not in the vicinity.

 

And by the way, they should be difficult to find as we are years after the Infected Outbreak, those kind of stuff should be quite rare.

I have 1918 hours in the game and im not blind. It is bullshit to have spark plugs rare when there is hunderets of destroyed cars that should spawn them too...The problem is that the items spawn cinda weirdly. For example during that 4 hour looting experince ive found more than 20 car radiators, over 30 + range finders. Second day my friend found 5 spark plugs in Cherno during cca 15 minute looting...If some item spawn, it spawns in high number, but other items are extremely rare.

And btw i was always checking my UI inventory in every fu**ing shed or garage. It wasnt my fault that i didnt found it for so long believe me or not. I dont have problem with looting, but 4 hour looting is just too much dont you think ?

[0.64 Freerider 261]

6 hours ago, aux7 said:

Sure, I will get a picture of the christmas tree tonight. .  . I was just trying to point out that this guy still needed the flare . . . to be honest, he wasnt the only one I saw using flares . . . but they all went off inland. The night was different to usual, there was a longer twilight and morning seemed to come earlier than usual. It wasnt so pitch black. And the moon seemed huge as it rose..

Yeah of course, you still see better when you use the flare, everything else would be ridicolous and why would a fresh spawn with nothing to lose not use it, right? The point is, that you don't NEED it anymore. That doesn't mean using a flare isn't more pleasant for the eyes. If you want to see people with medium or even high gear to use their lightsources, e.g. headtorches, then the game must be so you NEED to use your light source.

[0.64 Freerider 261]

3 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

We are aware of the criticism on the night light and we will continue to balance it. But it will not be removed for now, as the previous dark night was evidently discouraging players from playing during night time. Our goal is to find a compromise between making light sources important, while offering enough overview for players in the dark (there are many reasons for players to end up without a light source at night) to make conscious decisions on where to go and/or acquire a light source.

Also, please try to avoid chain-postings, you can reply to multiple comments in one reply.

Thank you for the information. Personally I'm fine with a modified version as placeholder until moonlight is properly implemented. On that note, do you have any information as to when the moonlight-issue might be tackled? Regarding the balancing, how do you picture a balanced state here? I'm asking because I can't imagine it, it's either...or to me.

 

Either you need light sources,

or you have "enough overview[...]in the dark".

 

Regarding "chain-postings", I'm currently very busy and engaged on your forums, I hope that's not a punishable offense. I currently react to messages very quickly, shortly after I receive them.

Edited April 3, 2019 by 0.64 Freerider

[ThePugman 280]

2 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

We are aware of the criticism on the night light and we will continue to balance it. But it will not be removed for now, as the previous dark night was evidently discouraging players from playing during night time. Our goal is to find a compromise between making light sources important, while offering enough overview for players in the dark (there are many reasons for players to end up without a light source at night) to make conscious decisions on where to go and/or acquire a light source..

I understand you guys have just invested time and money into this new personal night light, so you want to give it a chance to shine (ahem), but I really don’t think that it will do anything to stop servers emptying at night. I don’t think people leave the server because it’s too dark. They leave because just don’t like night time. To the more casual player, it’s an inconvenience. I’ve said it before but you should consider adding content that can only be accessed at night. Give them a reason to stay on... 

Re the nightlight: you could balance it by adding a new type of extremely dangerous infected/animal that is afraid of the light, but attracted to movement in the dark.... that will cut down on those sneaky people not using light sources for extended periods.

Also, in your defence, I have been without a light source in the previous dark night, and it wasn’t fun. I couldn’t see anything, and so had to stand still until light. I’ve even logged out before, due to lack of vision, so I get where you’re coming from. I just think it’s a very rare occurrence, for most people.

[aux7 234]

6 minutes ago, 0.64 Freerider said:

The point is, that you don't NEED it anymore.

exactly

[ThePugman 280]

27 minutes ago, kopo79 said:

what if....:bound that personal light thingy just when your character is walking...?so if you jog or sprint,there is no additional light....but when walking,personal light is active.
it would be like that when you move slowly you can concentrate more on surroundings....and reduce a bit that light and add also fade in/fade out between movement.
thanks.what i win?

edit:also crouch and prone maybe should have then this extra "concentrate light"

I think this is actually a really good idea.

[0.64 Freerider 261]

59 minutes ago, kopo79 said:

what if....:bound that personal light thingy just when your character is walking...?so if you jog or sprint,there is no additional light....but when walking,personal light is active.
it would be like that when you move slowly you can concentrate more on surroundings....and reduce a bit that light and add also fade in/fade out between movement.
thanks.what i win?

edit:also crouch and prone maybe should have then this extra "concentrate light"

Hey, really like that one, would be a good compromise, for until they get the moonlight to work properly. After that though, I still want it removed permanently. There is just no ground for compromise, I explained why earlier.

3 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

[...](there are many reasons for players to end up without a light source at night)[...]

I don't mean to sound cocky here, but I have a more simple solution than adding an "artificial magic light bubble" to avoid players ending up without light source. Here goes: Spawn. With. Flashlight....and battery ;D

On this note I also want to cheer you guys for all the stuff I like about the latest patches.

- Nice enlarged/changed item icons

- Walking with open inventory, very good (On that note I want to refer to my post in the "focused feedback round" where the guidelines said "Just leave a can of beans to show your support.", that post had 11 of them, consequently being one with the highest amount of upvotes in the "Character Movement, Gestures and Actions" discussion.)

- All those wonderful fixes listed in the changelog! Nice job crushing those!

- Adding the Sedan, whooo!

...I'll add more, as it comes to mind. It's important to also word out the things you like and appreciate!

Edited April 3, 2019 by 0.64 Freerider

[BrokenToken42 1]

18 hours ago, Eldodo26 said:

It seems that with the new update we can't refill gas tank of cars anymore, same bug for olga and ada...

I'm experiencing this same issue.  I find it amusing that there was this big conversation about spark plug rarity, but only one mention that you can't even add fuel to the vehicles.  Great work on the other fixes!  Really liking the inventory UI changes!!

[SlipShady 0]

2 hours ago, kudrosh said:

I have 1918 hours in the game and im not blind. It is bullshit to have spark plugs rare when there is hunderets of destroyed cars that should spawn them too...The problem is that the items spawn cinda weirdly. For example during that 4 hour looting experince ive found more than 20 car radiators, over 30 + range finders. Second day my friend found 5 spark plugs in Cherno during cca 15 minute looting...If some item spawn, it spawns in high number, but other items are extremely rare.

And btw i was always checking my UI inventory in every fu**ing shed or garage. It wasnt my fault that i didnt found it for so long believe me or not. I dont have problem with looting, but 4 hour looting is just too much dont you think ?

Yeah I've noticed that when a item spawns, it spawns multiple times in its town, as you said with radiators or others. I think they did that so you can't find everything in one town and actually have to move from this town to another.

 

And yeah, 4 hours is long time. But it sometime happens. That's the game, it shouldn't be easy to find anything.

 

And you don't have to be rude in your messages, I've not done nor said anything wrong here.

[aux7 234]

christmas tree

 

I was trying to hide under this. The illumination means you have to come out of the tree to see. I nearly got caught by another player getting these pictures . . . not paying enough attention (me), He (amazingly) didnt see me even though he just about ran past me . .. . time to move on . .

Oh and I tried to make a sniping shot and wound up on my back when I moved . . .. .

And I jumped from a rock to the ground, no great height, my vision flashed red and I took a hit on the health

Edited April 3, 2019 by aux7

[aux7 234]

4 hours ago, 0.64 Freerider said:

christmas tree

 

[0.64 Freerider 261]

7 hours ago, aux7 said:

 

Thanks, yeah, it's ridicolous and now it's on stable. It's confusing as you cannot really tell, how visible you are from what distance. It's just bulls*** and today it really struck me. They came up with this crazy idea, to avoid new players and freshspawns getting lost. There is a SIMPLE SOLUTION: SPAWN. WITH. A. FLASHLIGHT.

Edited April 4, 2019 by 0.64 Freerider

[McWendy 675]

Regarding the light: like myself and others have previously suggested;

Let fresh spawns start with a flashlight or more flares and or more (stronger) chemlights. 

For Lore and immersion a zippo would be better and more feasible but ok. You could also state we need to walk or it goes out 🙂

At least do this untill proper implementation of the moonlight (or reflected sun light if you will) 

Edited April 3, 2019 by McWendy
Extra recap

[Derleth 1357]

13 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

We are aware of the criticism on the night light and we will continue to balance it. But it will not be removed for now, as the previous dark night was evidently discouraging players from playing during night time. Our goal is to find a compromise between making light sources important, while offering enough overview for players in the dark (there are many reasons for players to end up without a light source at night) to make conscious decisions on where to go and/or acquire a light source.

@ImpulZ you seem like a reasonable guy, but I just can't figure out what this post really means. You say you are "aware" that people are quitting servers due to not seeing anything after dark, but instead of adding incentive or making it easier to find and use existing in-game light sources, you decide to implement a completely artificial, FAKE "personal" light source, that only affects the user. In effect this renders all other light sources in the game more or less obsolete, since players do not want to give their position away by using a light source. Since the "night light" is invisible to other players, and thereby safe, players will rather stumble around with the bare minimum than use available light sources.

So, how about making sure every damn newspawn has some chemlights, and make it possible to strap said chemlights to your hoodie, so you can have your hands free to fight while using a light source? And if players STILL manage to end up in night conditions without a light source, for the love of everything holy just let that be a lesson to them! If you throw your flare and/or chemlights away when you spawn, you WILL die when it gets dark. It is Darwinism in effect, nothing dangerous!

Next thing I want to ask is what is actually happening regarding night lighting in general? In 0.63, from the first stress tests all the way until the beta patch around Halloween, there was some ambient light at night. The moon and stars provided illumination and cast shadows, making the nights moody and realistic for the most part. Sometimes it was definitely off, there was obviously no correlation between moon phase and the level of ambient light so even with no moon the ground would be illuminated, which of course is unrealistic. But the current model with the landscape completely dark under a full moon is even more unrealistic! The moon sheds light, so where is the moonlight? Is it the anti-gamma mechanism blocking it? If so, and if there is no way to solve it, please get rid of anti-gamma, because this thing is more damaging to the game than gamma cheaters ever were!

What I hope we will see in the near future is a system where night time ambient lighting is dependent on moon phase and position as well as cloud layer, making a clear night with full moon bright as in 0.63 before the beta patch, while a completely overcast night with thick clouds would be dark as 1.0 without the "night light". That would mean the lighting would be somewhat dynamic, weather and moon dependent as in real life. I believe most DayZ players would appreciate such a system. 

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Derleth

[repzaj1234 126]

Good stuff Derleth and I agree. In fact I made a similar post to yours.
 

Quote

this renders all other light sources in the game more or less obsolete, since players do not want to give their position away by using a light source.

This is the main thing here, I remember when gamma abuse was rampant in the mod days and in Standalone. All this night light does is erase all the progress made with this. Night time 1.0 had everyone on an even field at night because we all had to use a light source.

Again, there are a lot better temporary band-aids than this artificial light. I really do not want to squint at my monitor because everyone else is doing it.

 

[FunkInYourTrunk 354]

15 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

We are aware of the criticism on the night light and we will continue to balance it. But it will not be removed for now, as the previous dark night was evidently discouraging players from playing during night time. Our goal is to find a compromise between making light sources important, while offering enough overview for players in the dark (there are many reasons for players to end up without a light source at night) to make conscious decisions on where to go and/or acquire a light source.

out of sheer curiosity, why not just get rid of the cluster concept with servers.  then people would have a different character on each server.  then people could still leave at night but wouldnt be able to take their toon with them.  I know I would stay through the night if leaving would mean starting again.  

that being said I suppose that this concept might actually cause more people to just log off during night time and lower the numbers playing the game....  I dont know what I'm talking about....