BI Needs to Postpone 1.0

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

DISCLAIMER: I've stood behind this game since 2012 and have supported development 99.7% of the time and only been vocal/critical these last few months.

With that said...I was leaning towards the devs getting it done before Christmas, but it's not going to happen...there isn't enough time. They're already saying they can't do anymore Status Reports this year...why are there no more Status Reports? They can't take long to make. Traditionally, the team leaves a week or so early for travel accomodations which leaves at least two good weeks left.

Since BETA we have Modding Tools that don't work and have zero documentation. I'm sitting around here waiting to adjust infected and loot with the CeEditor for WEEKS now. How are we suppossed to use it when there are no instructions on how to do so? Last I heard, CeEditor doesn't even work when trying to deploy. Essentially, devs rushed broken modding tools out to the public. I find that unreasonable and unacceptable.

Basebuilding and Persistence are broken and there simply isn't enough time to fix it. Players came in droves for Basebuilding and new fetures/assets/etc and they've left as quickly as they came.

Bohemia Interactives biggest flaw is they simply don't understand the lingua franca of the customer. 

Example...

Rush the console port out (Hicks even said it in an DUG interview), get a buzz, then destroy it with broken night and rain. Initial rush there was a good 6 servers with max pop and plenty underneath with comparable populations. Now it's one if you're lucky. Why leave the game for a weekend of play with night and rain non-stop? I could be wrong here and I apologize if I am, but isn't the crunch time cycle like a 7 day a week affair? I've read a few dev written articles on the subject so I'm not just grabbing that out of thin air.

As it stands on PC, you can't even shutdown a server and restart it without persistence getting partially wiped.

• I can't modify infected
• I can't modify starting health
• I can't modify stamina ror sprinting
• I can't modify a simple custom loadout
• I can't modify loot lifetime of 50 seconds (why would that even be a stock value anyway?!?!?!) so players can't lootfarm and despawn camps
• Hell, I can't even get on the bug tracker or get my players over there to file bug reports!

The core issues will not be fixed in the next two weeks, we haven't had a PC update in 11 days.

Why the big rush anyway? The reasoning posted was very ambigious and not clear. I know PlayStation was the first console to get on board, is this one of the reasons for the rush...to get it out on PlayStation or some sort of fulfillment with console contracts? Everybody knows the console contracts/deals/whatever-you-want-to-call-it made the new engine, renderer, etc possible so they must obviously have SOME SORT of deadline attached.

I don't think there is adequate transparency going on here and I really wish Dean was here yelling at Marek.

"The thing is, if I'm involved in the project, I'll be fighting anybody on the project to make sure it's good, so for the rest of the year, I'm there. And I don't just sit around; it doesn't matter if I'm the cleaner or the leader or whatever, I will be making sure - I will be in Marek's [Spanel, CEO] office yelling at him. I'm notorious for it."

-Dean Hall

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-24-dean-hall-to-leave-bohemia-and-step-down-as-leader-of-dayz

We need a leader that isn't scared to put Marek in his place. 

If there isn't a monetary obligation, just postpone the dang thing and release with your best foot forward. You don't take a hot chick out on a first date to Chick-fil-A do ya? You put your best foot forward, not a foot with dogshit on the bottom and your big toe poking through a hole.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Weyland Yutani (DayZ)

[Evilsausage 87]

Yeah I also got a really bad feeling about this... The bugs are everywhere.

Just to name a few.. 

Tried to put my backpack on the ground  - gets stuck floating in a bush and can't be picked up. 

Tried to use headtorch - it just floates above my head and doesn't work. 

Carries a barrel for 15 mins - realize then its bugged and can't be used. 

Fire my gun - no sound. But somehow I can hear my friends gun. 

Hits the Zombie in the head with my knife - See blood splatter coming from the Zombies feet. 

Zombie has his back turned toward me - Still manages to somehow hit me. 

Close combat is supposed to be better, encounter 2 players with shotguns inside a cramped field hospital cabine - They fire like 8 shotgun rounds point blank and one pistol mag before they manages to finally kill me (had no armor or gun). 

Encounters enraged zombie - it gets stuck by any obstacle infront of it. As if it has no pathfinding at all. Even older Zombies did a better job.

 

Many bugs are just baffling. I mean they are super easy to find. Yet you don't fix them properly? 

Then we have alot of content removed and some design parts of the game feels very unfinished.  We need a miracle at this point if they pull it off in time.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Evilsausage

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

And just so everyone understands... BI will be releasing the game regardless if it has a bunch of known issues, persistence corruption, and server crashes.  If you take everything said in account, this will be done come hell or high water.  I find myself asking 4 years of testing, playing and over 4000 hours... FOR....WHAT?!?  Can anyone at BI honestly say they are happy releasing this game in it's current state?

Edited December 3, 2018 by THEGordonFreeman

[Targaryen42 7]

11 minutes ago, THEGordonFreeman said:

Well dang, i was looking forward to a status report when i started my 2 days off...=( with no status report im sure they are bug fixing and taking that time and pounding out those bugs. A whole month without a status report and now it feels like waiting for updates on Squad.

[Vernon_Price 135]

Chill. Nothing needs to be postponded and won't be. We've been at this topic already, get over it. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Vernon_Price

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

I've been having these concerns since they broke their "no date/deadline" stance, as well.

This is not the end, but we're not going to have another "release" on Steam after Early Access is done. It's going to be difficult to grow a player base post-release if you don't have a strong number to begin with, because of how the game will be perceived by new players looking at the server browser. Releasing as 1.0 and leaving Early Access in a buggy state is always seen as a majorly negative point ("What was the point of Early Access then?"), as well. I've watched many games try it, and I can't think of one that has survived it and grow.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[Guy Smiley 534]

Oh for the love of.....  BI is the only company that I know of that doesn't use traditional numbering system to establish game state.  1.0 is not the end of beta nor is it full release unlike every other game out there.  It's leaving early access yes but it will not be the full release.  My god people.  Get a grip

[THEGordonFreeman 664]

4 minutes ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

I've been having these concerns since they broke their "no date/deadline" stance, as well.

This is not the end, but we're not going to have another "release" on Steam after Early Access is done. It's going to be difficult to grow a player base post-release if you don't have a strong number to begin with, because of how the game will be perceived by new players looking at the server browser. Releasing as 1.0 and leaving Early Access in a buggy state is always seen as a majorly negative point ("What was the point of Early Access then?"), as well. I've watched many games try it, and I can't think of one that has survived it and grow.

Community servers are mostly empty now minus a few of the COD style ones.  Those that wanted a true DayZ experience may never get one without proper, working base building that doesn't delete itself almost every day from some server bug.

you say this is not the end... you are right, Unless something HUGE happens, and I don't mean leaving early access, I mean something really huge, there is no incentive for players to keep playing this game, or for server owners to keep sinking money into resources to keep it afloat.

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

5 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

Oh for the love of.....  BI is the only company that I know of that doesn't use traditional numbering system to establish game state.  1.0 is not the end of beta nor is it full release unlike every other game out there.  It's leaving early access yes but it will not be the full release.  My god people.  Get a grip

Version numbering systems may be arbitrary, but in game/software/anything development, 1.0 is generally considered the first "complete" version, out of testing phase, or however else you want to phrase it. Regardless, even if BI made an official statement about 1.0 not being the end of beta, most people are not going to see that and the fact that you've left Early Access and get announced by Steam as a full new release, you can't ever get that again. It's a lost opportunity for a big push no matter what is going on with development if players receive it poorly.

[Guy Smiley 534]

1 minute ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

Version numbering systems may be arbitrary, but in game/software/anything development, 1.0 is generally considered the first "complete" version, out of testing phase, or however else you want to phrase it. Regardless, even if BI made an official statement about 1.0 not being the end of beta, most people are not going to see that and the fact that you've left Early Access and get announced by Steam as a full new release, you can't ever get that again. It's a lost opportunity for a big push no matter what is going on with development if players receive it poorly.

I agree.  I really think they shot themselves in the foot by slapping the beta tag on DayZ with the state and condition it's in.  I've defended some of the decisions the devs have made but this one I will not.  DayZ's current state is still very much Alpha and they will have to pull off a miracle for their 1.0 release.

[drgullen 596]

9 hours ago, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

Why the big rush anyway? The reasoning posted was very ambigious and not clear. I know PlayStation was the first console to get on board, is this one of the reasons for the rush...to get it out on PlayStation or some sort of fulfillment with console contracts? Everybody knows the console contracts/deals/whatever-you-want-to-call-it made the new engine, renderer, etc possible so they must obviously have SOME SORT of deadline attached.

 

Personally, I think this is exactly the reason -- it's out on one console, but not the other -- the BI execs want those PS4 sales.

As long as regular updates to the game on all platforms continue into 2019 (and hopefully beyond), I think it'll get there eventually.  It won't be the 1.0 we wanted, but it'll have to do for now.

[amadieus 315]

I completely agree with the majority in this topic. The dev team made some huge steps this year and the game got so much improvement, and I totally understand their reasoning to focus on bugfixing now instead of content. But why call it 1.0?!

Even beta was already a bit premature with the lack of balancing and too much game breaking bugs. And still we saw a huge increase in players.

1.0 will do the same. It will increase the player count, has the potential to increase steam ratings, but in its current state I fear the game has too many bugs. I'm fine with Bohemia's style of game releasing, with much more content and features post 1.0, but even Arma 3 had much more stuff at release. Point is that this game will also be reviewed by all kinds of gaming websites. And I'm afraid that the review scores won't be high with the minimum amount of content and probably buggyness.

I really hope that they can fix the majority of bugs though! We will see. But we really need some more patches this week, otherwise I'm afraid for the 1.0 release.

[ZomboWTF 527]

10 hours ago, Guy Smiley said:

Oh for the love of.....  BI is the only company that I know of that doesn't use traditional numbering system to establish game state.  1.0 is not the end of beta nor is it full release unlike every other game out there.  It's leaving early access yes but it will not be the full release.  My god people.  Get a grip

1.0 is the end of beta and the official release, read the status update again

[Just Caused 423]

I would also like to get it delayed until beginning of February. Just call it 0.64 or something until then. 

[Sqeezorz 839]

1.0 Means the completion of the Core_Engine. This means that the foundation should be finished. Thus at this point there is still a lot of missing that we call "content" / "feature" / "balancing". For BI it is important at the moment that the future construction works.

(Good example: Farming it works on exp. ... but purely without features ... it's a shell that does not get the finishing touches because of the Dev's focus ... yet).

 

Talking is always easier than making a pyramid anyone can draw, a pyramid in statics can calculate only a few, and to build it requires many hands that understand their craft, oh yes, and time is still needed, right?

[ZomboWTF 527]

15 minutes ago, Sqeezorz said:

1.0 Means the completion of the Core_Engine. This means that the foundation should be finished. Thus at this point there is still a lot of missing that we call "content" / "feature" / "balancing". For BI it is important at the moment that the future construction works.

(Good example: Farming it works on exp. ... but purely without features ... it's a shell that does not get the finishing touches because of the Dev's focus ... yet).

 

Talking is always easier than making a pyramid anyone can draw, a pyramid in statics can calculate only a few, and to build it requires many hands that understand their craft, oh yes, and time is still needed, right?

that is not at all what the devs told us in the status update regarding 1.0 and beta

end of this year, the game is released, and more content gets pushed in afterwards, but the state of the game end of this year is supposed o be a "core gameplay loop complete" and "stable" version for which they then only need to add more content on, yet there are still a huge amount of bugs in the game, calling that a stable base to work on is just a joke

Edited December 4, 2018 by ZomboWTF

[Guy Smiley 534]

3 hours ago, ZomboWTF said:

that is not at all what the devs told us in the status update regarding 1.0 and beta

end of this year, the game is released, and more content gets pushed in afterwards, but the state of the game end of this year is supposed o be a "core gameplay loop complete" and "stable" version for which they then only need to add more content on, yet there are still a huge amount of bugs in the game, calling that a stable base to work on is just a joke

No, 1.0 is the only release at the end of the year.  Zero mention of full game or end up beta.  

[MaxTheSurvivor 152]

BI needs to start communicating about postponing the 1.0 release to March or April. They always failed the deadlines they've set to themselves and failed even more the damage control attempts after they failed to deliver. We, the hardcore fans (probably only a few hundreds left), won't complain. We need a fully functional game in order to consider it a 1.0 on which you can build. In its current state the game is in alpha 0.64 state. Bethesda released Fallout 76 in the same state as DayZ will be by the end of the year and now they're facing class actions for many different reasons. We don't need that drama. Stop the "1.0 by the end of December" bullshit and start communicating about the fact that, in the interest of all, the 1.0 release will be postponed otherwise we will end up with an average server population of 2 players like we had before the base building update and a dead/abandoned game at release.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

11 hours ago, Sqeezorz said:

1.0 Means the completion of the Core_Engine. This means that the foundation should be finished. Thus at this point there is still a lot of missing that we call "content" / "feature" / "balancing". For BI it is important at the moment that the future construction works.

(Good example: Farming it works on exp. ... but purely without features ... it's a shell that does not get the finishing touches because of the Dev's focus ... yet).

Talking is always easier than making a pyramid anyone can draw, a pyramid in statics can calculate only a few, and to build it requires many hands that understand their craft, oh yes, and time is still needed, right?

Wrong. Hicks said dozens and dozens of times that by the time DayZ hits BETA she will be feature complete. Then the new features come in at 20% instead of 80% and bug fixing is 80% instead of the 20% its been before BETA.

DayZ is NOT featue complete. Nowhere NEAR feature complete.

Bohemia Interactive doesn't have the clout and isn't big enough to rewrite industry terms. This is NOT BETA and 1.0 will not be a proper release. Who release a game with THIS MANY bugs??? Don't you think it's funny that nobody even remembers BETA Strike Teams 1 & 2?

The engine should have been done during or before Pre-Alpha, thats when that stuff happens. If Marek had fully gotten behind Dean's vision, we wouldn't be in this pickle. Alpha is deployment of features and BETA is bug fixing. Thats how it works.

This is what you're saying in a picture...

If Bohemia Interactive wants to get back into the Major Leagues, they need to step up their batting average and start scoring. You can't release broken games and expect to knock it out of the park.

 

[amadieus 315]

A game does not necessarily have to be feature complete to be released. Look at Arma 3 for example. Also, lets see what happens in the next week before calling it a buggy mess. 

With that being said, it would not surprise me that there will be quite some bugs at launch with just a few weeks to go. Personally I also don't think that the version we have now, feature and content wise, is ready for a 1.0 release. The game will be reviewed and judged and it will be it's last huge PR moment. It would be better to postpone 1.0, get some more content and features in and then release it.

[Sqeezorz 839]

1 hour ago, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

Wrong. Hicks said dozens and dozens of times that by the time DayZ hits BETA she will be feature complete. Then the new features come in at 20% instead of 80% and bug fixing is 80% instead of the 20% its been before BETA.

 

Right. But Hicks is no longer part of the team. So you can not insist on his statements.

We have to take what we get. BI makes games ... games for leisure and not a "medicine" that will cure 1000 people from death.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

8 minutes ago, Sqeezorz said:

Right. But Hicks is no longer part of the team. So you can not insist on his statements.

We have to take what we get. BI makes games ... games for leisure and not a "medicine" that will cure 1000 people from death.

Huh? Hicks being hired or fired doesn't change what FEATURE COMPLETE means. Dean isn't here either so maybe we scrap the infected and put Brony plushies in as antagonists? We don't have to take shit. That's the wrong attitude my friend!

[Guy Smiley 534]

28 minutes ago, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

Huh? Hicks being hired or fired doesn't change what FEATURE COMPLETE means. Dean isn't here either so maybe we scrap the infected and put Brony plushies in as antagonists? We don't have to take shit. That's the wrong attitude my friend!

No, a wrong attitude is coming onto these forums and whining about something that is not true.  1.0 is not the end of beta for the last time.  It is also not the feature complete game.  It is the end of early access and that is it.  

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

1 hour ago, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

Huh? Hicks being hired or fired doesn't change what FEATURE COMPLETE means. Dean isn't here either so maybe we scrap the infected and put Brony plushies in as antagonists? We don't have to take shit. That's the wrong attitude my friend!

Please do not spread false information.  Hicks was not fired.