For those complaining about the development time of DayZ

[DannyDog 532]

@pilgrim* That's an interesting question. I mean i don't see it being a "bad" thing if you want to design your game to be fully moddable etc. Just look at other games that are popular because of mods. (minecraft for example)

You don't really say that mojang's business model is to make minecraft moddable so that the community can create content for it whilst they reap the rewards of the base game being popular? I mean the fact that it IS moddable and so open should make it good shouldn't it? That's just what i think.

[pilgrim* 3514]

18 minutes ago, DannyDog said:

@pilgrim*You don't really say that mojang's business model is to make minecraft moddable so that the community can create content for it whilst they reap the rewards of the base game being popular? I mean the fact that it IS moddable and so open should make it good shouldn't it? That's just what i think.

never heard of "mojang" friend .. but I'm sure you pray to him every night (or light incense, whatever) just like you should.   So, about those Minecraft Mods .. er.. who gets paid when someone needs a copy of minecraft to mod?  do they buy it off the modder?  How many copies of mojang Minecraft have mojang sold (if thats what they do? ) just by sitting around on a beach drinking cool drinks and watching the modders convince folk to buy a billion copies of a game those buyers don't ever intend ever to play.. they just NEED it to play the mod ??

or is mojang (blessed be his name) into some other kind of business ? 

xx nice day

[Solopopo 330]

On 10/29/2017 at 10:42 PM, Guy Smiley said:

Instead, companies sell you a game on pre-order for $60-$80 plus another $60 season pass which means you're paying for a game that you don't even get to play for up to a month lol.  Or companies release a game which they call "full version" for $60-$80 and their a buggy mess beta.  So, yes the bitching and moaning is extremely childish and unwarranted when you have zero knowledge of game development.  So the fact that this "project" has been on going for almost 4 years and is in the process of going into beta soon shows that they are right on track with normal development times.

I think the only one being childish is you. It is no coincidence that DayZ has lost almost it's entire playerbase. The vast majority of people think DayZ is bullshit at this point. 

I don't agree with the practices of those other companies you are referring to either, but it's laughable that you are trying to compare DayZ to those games. Price gouging a finished product is not the same thing as charging money for an unfinished one. Games should come out at a set price as an entirely finished product. That is the way it has always been until recently, and there are still many games that release this way. The Witcher 3 is a shining example of how a game should be released. So is the Last of Us, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, Grand Theft Auto V. All of these games I just listed are phenomenal and in comparison make DayZ look like a literal joke.

Your argument this time around, if it can even be called that, is that the DayZ devs are completely justified releasing an unfinished piece of crap and charging money for it because some other companies price gouge their finished product. That's even more ridiculous than your original argument. 

Again, with all that being said, I am still rooting for DayZ and I think it has the potential to be amazing. However, the way this game released is just bullshit and practically everyone in the world agrees with that. But the devs have stuck to their guns. They keep pushing this crap about how early access alphas are innovative and how they were the first ones to do it. If that is their claim to fame they are doomed to fail, and they need to recognize that fast. Early Access Alphas don't bring innovation to people's minds, they bring broken, clunky, hilariously bad games to mind. The devs seem to think they can rewrite history with their words. They have people like you believing their bullshit rhetoric and it honestly just makes the whole community look bad, as I said in my original post. From an outside perspective everything happening with DayZ is just utterly absurd. To try to defend it at this point it just... dumb. If the Devs are going to insist that this alpha nonsense is innovative and continually fail to acknowledge how badly the early release hurt the game, they have a lot to prove at this point. It's seriously put up or shut up time. I have no problem waiting for a good game to be made right, but if that is what they are going to do they need to shut up about how great everything has been so far because it's been awful. This game should have been locked up behind closed doors from the start. They released early because they wanted to cash in on the DayZ craze while they could, and that's just the honest-to-god truth everyone knows. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Solopopo

[Solopopo 330]

On 10/30/2017 at 7:13 PM, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Whether you think public alpha is a sound concept or not has very little to do with the text you quoted.

I was pointing out the fact that originators often suffer more pitfalls.

Early Access seems to be proving itself a raw deal for most consumers and I have only supported 1 or 2 other projects.

Considering the apparent enjoyment that the DayZ player base has had from this broken limping Frankencoded alpha in its current state I would say this negates the drawbacks alpha brought and it was merely the testers who did not have the resolve to participate wholly. 

Many have since melted down and left in a huff declaring DayZ forever shit and then they can tell stories about how they were involved when it was still good and how it will never be done and the devs are thieves and we're just suckers and fanboys.

Then fucking 1.0 comes out and they see a video and pee themselves a little and they'll want to return with pride like they were here from the start and "love" DayZ.

What bullshit.

No, I am directly responding to what you said. 

"DayZ is one of the first open alpha releases on this scale if I'm not mistaken and originators are bound to make more mistakes.

I think it's better to look at the time comparisons on a general level and what's expected as the outcome if you want to draw parallels with other games."

I refuse to accept your premise that the idea of Early Access Alpha is some new industry innovation pioneered by the DayZ devs. That is complete nonsense. There is nothing innovative about releasing unfinished work and charging money for it. There is nothing innovative about making the majority of your customers loathe you. The early release of DayZ has hurt it's development, not helped it. Us "testers," as you say, are not helping them do anything. You are brainwashed by their rhetoric too. Do you not remember that even the creator of the game bailed on DayZ? We were stuck with pre Enfusion DayZ for so long, and they actually worked on that engine for a while. They could have been doing real work in that time, but they were jerking us around. They would have to be complete fools not to see right away that their current technology wouldn't support what they wanted to do with the game. 

You try to say in your original post--and this was originally something I wasn't going to respond to, but you insisted--that despite all the bullshit, the overall time this game has taken to be developed is not unreasonable. I don't agree with that at all. DayZ was already a fully functioning mod. Bohemia Interactive shut all of the mods down. They stopped real development that was happening with the mod so the devs could release a standalone, and the promise was that it would be released in 2 years. They even published a detailed quarterly release schedule. DayZ would be incredible at this point if it had successfully transitioned to Arma 3, which it would have. You mean to tell me that it is not unreasonable that the devs couldn't do the same amount of work that a bunch of hobbiest modders were doing for free? That is complete nonsense my friend. 

So why then? Why couldn't they keep up with the modders that were already working on DayZ? It's because they already got paid, and they weren't incentivised. 

I find your certainty that DayZ will be finished, and that there will ever be a day people come running back to it, hilarious at this point. So much damage has been done. I know people who would only play DayZ if forced at gunpoint. There seems to be this common idea among the few remaining survivors that the past won't matter when DayZ releases, because what DayZ is supposed to be is so damn amazing that everyone will come flocking back. Well, I'm sorry to say that too is bullshit. A lot of people are just utterly disgusted with the franchise so much so that they just can't enjoy it. Not every person with a complaint about DayZ is some brat with no patience. A lot of them are just regular, rational, people with completely justified complaints who are just fed up. Some of them have even grown up, because the game is taking so damn long, left to live life never to return. 

I don't wish to trash DayZ, but when speaking honestly, there are just very few positive things left to say about it. I was gushing over the trees just a few months ago, but since then there has been basically nothing. Making the grass textures match at all distances was nice, but still not that big. I would love for the beta to come out and have it be a transformative experience for everyone. I just don't believe anymore, and I'm not alone.

The beta promo was really lackluster. I was not really all that impressed with what I saw, and at this point I don't believe anything I don't see with my eyes. They say there will be base building? Yeah, sure, they've said a lot of things in the past. At this point it's actually more probable that it's not true, and that's not even a joke. If you ran the numbers, the probability would be in favor of it not happening. I like where they are going with melee combat, but it's looks like shit. They say it will look better later. Yeah? When my kids are born and grown and old enough to play it? Also, zombies are still crap, and that isn't even something they are planning to address in the beta. 

As for now, I can't bring myself to play at all. I can't believe they haven't addressed the apple glitch literally since the game has released. I have no incentive at all to try to survive the way the game intends, knowing that there is infinite food literally everywhere. The game has been fundamentally broken from the beginning, and their solution is to just not talk about it so fewer people learn about it. It's just absolutely preposterous. How do they not address one simple but completely game breaking glitch in 4 years? There is no excuse for that kind of thing. If they still had money to earn from this game it would have already been fixed. 

It would have been better for DayZ as a franchise to have a normal release, when it was good and ready. Even if the game hadn't released yet, nobody would hate it. The reputation of the game has been dragged through the mud by it's early access release, and the only way to start healing those wounds is to openly acknowledge that DayZ should not have been released as an early access alpha, and no game ever should be. That is the only way I can see the DayZ devs and community ever regaining respect, and the only way anyone will ever come back, because if this charade continues, people will see right away that nothing has changed. Early Access Alpha releases are a cancer that is infecting the video game industry. If the devs continue to stand by their abomination, I cannot continue to stand by them, and I am not alone on that either. 

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Dancing.Russian.Man
Formatting

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

6 hours ago, Solopopo said:

They keep pushing this crap about how early access alphas are innovative and how they were the first ones to do it. If that is their claim to fame they are doomed to fail, and they need to recognize that fast. Early Access Alphas don't bring innovation to people's minds, they bring broken, clunky, hilariously bad games to mind. The devs seem to think they can rewrite history with their words.

That's just you putting words in their mouth. I was going to respond to your other post, but it's almost nothing but hyperbole statements or just plain false like the following:

4 hours ago, Solopopo said:

Bohemia Interactive shut all of the mods down.

You keep saying you're serious and not joking, but there's no way you can be this misinformed about DayZ if you've been following development even sparingly.

This has to be bait. If you ran the numbers, the probability would be in favor of it being so.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

6 hours ago, Solopopo said:

I refuse to accept your premise that the idea of Early Access Alpha is some new industry innovation pioneered by the DayZ devs. That is complete nonsense

I never said it was innovative, I said they made mistakes related to having no precedent for the process.

6 hours ago, Solopopo said:

don't wish to trash DayZ, but when speaking honestly, there are just very few positive things left to say about it. I was gushing over the trees just a few months ago

After all of the negative mostly unfounded garbage you spewed above this, why would you not just leave DayZ behind altogether? No one wants to even play it once it's done right? Are you a glutton for punishment? 

 

1 hour ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

there's no way you can be this misinformed about DayZ if you've been following development even sparingly.

Isn't it incredible? 

Also, there are millions of console and PC owners who have never heard of DayZ as it's never been fully promoted.

Unless DayZ implodes completely, I do have faith that BI will finish the game and it will be better than any fantasy you had while playing the mod.

Just remember everything you said here and definitely save your fork, there's (humble) pie.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

 http://www.dayztv.com/standalone/dayz-console-port-xbox-one-ps4/

May 2013: Dean Hall talks about console port during E3 2013

Dean hall personally consider that a console “port” would be “probable” if the sales of DayZ standalone were very good.

They already had consoles in mind very early. So they should've had some vision already for something like Enfusion engine happening that fits the consoles. Likely in smaller scale but still engine that fits even the consoles. So they knew they would do more if the game sells well. Some games have tried to go through Kickstarter but early access is easier way to fund the game early on and that's what has happened on some games.

 

Then the reasons why it was released so early:

- Other survival zombie games were trying to grip on some sales so there was pressure coming from that way. Hicks have talked about it and probably Dean Hall also. They didn't need to sell well but of course they really wanted to sell well ;)

- Sell on the hype while it still was there. A good way to fund things.

- Dean Hall was leaving the Bohemia. They likely need to release before the leave or it would've looked bad in public.

 

The release showed that it would take easily even 2 years to complete DayZ even if they had remained with the RV engine base. At least that was my opinion when I first time fired up the game. But the sales were good, so they started to look for more options like a totally new engine that can play on consoles also and be the base for future titles from BIS. When you think about that, it hasn't really taken a too long time yet.

When they realized they should actually do Enfusion, the development team was pretty small. They naturally hired more people and hiring people in this kind of project slows up the development for some time at first. Eugene at least has talked about that in some conferences.

 

Releasing DayZ on early access so early wasn't good move if you think about the state of the game and consumer. But in long term and financially thinking it was likely the right move for the company and future BIS games because they now have a great chance with the Enfusion engine. I think there is still nothing in the market, other than RV, that can come close to what Enfusion can offer.

[DannyDog 532]

9 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

never heard of "mojang" friend .. but I'm sure you pray to him every night (or light incense, whatever) just like you should.   So, about those Minecraft Mods .. er.. who gets paid when someone needs a copy of minecraft to mod?  do they buy it off the modder?  How many copies of mojang Minecraft have mojang sold (if thats what they do? ) just by sitting around on a beach drinking cool drinks and watching the modders convince folk to buy a billion copies of a game those buyers don't ever intend ever to play.. they just NEED it to play the mod ??

or is mojang (blessed be his name) into some other kind of business ? 

xx nice day

That's a very naive view of modding and modders in general. Go ask an actual modder if they feel like this and you will realize not everyone feels like that otherwise they wouldn't be doing it in the first place? I mean modding is a choice. They do it because they love it and are passionate about the game not because they want to earn money. (Even though it is still nice to support them with it)

Also whats up with your weird comments like "but I'm sure you pray to him every night (or light incense, whatever) just like you should". It makes you come off as some kind of jerk given no context.

ps. mojang is the game company behind Minecraft.

Edited November 4, 2017 by DannyDog

[sneakydude 480]

2 hours ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

That's just you putting words in their mouth. I was going to respond to your other post, but it's almost nothing but hyperbole statements or just plain false like the following:

You keep saying you're serious and not joking, but there's no way you can be this misinformed about DayZ if you've been following development even sparingly.

This has to be bait. If you ran the numbers, the probability would be in favor of it being so.

Exactly there is anger in the post, its misleading to the actual facts behind development, and what was actually said by the devs. Yet his argument does hold loads of truth to many of the player base feelings. Another reason why it is rather difficult to repair anything in the game, or forum to make it better.

Sadly EA has put a bad taste in the original player base mouth. We all hope for the best of dayz, yet we can not say will the vast numbers even return at this stage.

[libertine 351]

On 11/1/2017 at 9:40 PM, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

They just finished one of a few guns that will be ready for .63, the fnx, that was 30 different anims just for the one gun.

If I'm not mistaken, they also announced more mo cap sessions as well, and they have a lot left for vehicle interactions and actions in different poses.

I also believe that the interactive depth for the character is intrinsically more complicated because of all the different factors working on many unusual mechanics tied to them. Bringing together all of these elements far exceeds the average demand for characters in a game.

Just the animations for crawling out of an overturned vehicle (on trello) are above and beyond the standard expectations of most gamers.

Can you link to the trello page? The one i can find has only a public page. I don't see animations you're referring to.

[DannyDog 532]

33 minutes ago, libertine said:

Can you link to the trello page? The one i can find has only a public page. I don't see animations you're referring to.

Hm i remember seeing it on trello ages ago but maybe i'm wrong. I looked back and found it on the status report (crawling out of an overturned vehicle).

https://dayz.com/blog/status-report-12-apr-2016

Would be nice if all of these unlisted videos were put on the trello or some sort.

[philbur 476]

On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎25 at 8:10 PM, comikz said:

So both sides of the coin need to be able to speak they're mind about this game, it's development and staff

My man...you just did.

Everyone on this forum has bitched to some extent about release schedule, bugginess, etc. All things considered, its a miracle the dev team never simply shut down the forums and servers and told us all to shut up and wait for the Beta.

On a positive note...

I had an old LAN-Bash buddy stop in for a couple beers and we were laughing about the old days of Doom, Duke, and Quake when I suggested he check out DayZ SA. After a quick explanation of the game he thought I had finally gone off the deep end as so I sat him down in my game room...gave him another beer and fired it up. It was really interesting to watch him mess around on the coast as a true Bambi new spawn. Ultimately...he has decided to buy a copy DESPITE my clear warning that this game is still ALPHA. He said that for 38 bucks he would buy it just to explore the coastal areas and Elektro, as he did at my place...

Without any prompting his logic to me was this "I have paid a lot more for games that I have played only 10-20 hours...and THIS is already a 100-hour game."

If the time feels like its too long for the state it's in then just try to get an opinion from someone who has not been as tied to it as yourselves...and it helps keep it in perspective.

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by philbur

[libertine 351]

@philbur: Your friend is an example of why i think the game could really carve out a successful space in the gaming market so long as they take it to a high quality level. This is a build it and they will come sort of deal IMO. If they get the game to look like The Division, in terms of atmosphere and environment detail, theres no way they wouldn't be successful.

@animations: Those animation are sub-standard IMO. That climbing out of the car animation is super-easy to do; you could just borrow the existing prone-forward anim to start with changing the main poses and be done if your a little lucky. It also completely stops motion at the extremes, like the prone-forward animation does, thats not very realistic. The gun animation has the bare minimum amount of movements; it very basic; you put the ammo in and the gun goes downward, no accounting for the person applying force in the opposite direction with his opposite hand and the loading is exactly the same timing and gun movement for each round. Its not horrible but animation is one of the keys to believably and immersion IMO, its important to get it right for this type of game. I hope those are just placeholder animations to give the team something to work with and they probably are. The narrator of the last video said they were going to polish some movement animations later. If they leave the animations accessible, someone like me could make a big improvement at least. I want to get my hands on that ladder animation so damn bad. I can't change anything but the climbing movement, everything else will likely be locked away in the .exe so i hope they improve the transition behavior, it would make a huge difference in the gameplay i think, especially the exploration gameplay they are shooting for.

 

EDIT: "could make a big improvement", not "could be..."

Edited November 4, 2017 by libertine

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

8 hours ago, philbur said:

Without any prompting his logic to me was this "I have paid a lot more for games that I have played only 10-20 hours...and THIS is already a 100-hour game."

This, forever this.

5 hours ago, libertine said:

This is a build it and they will come sort of deal IMO.

This, absolutely this.

5 hours ago, libertine said:

I hope those are just placeholder animations

And almost certainly this as well.

[Mantasisg 172]

Pretty sure by now, that beta won't hit stable this year, perhaps could hope for exp. #complaining

When they were announcing things at gamescom I really thought that they are very close to 0.63. But bases, and even modding was mentioned, so I guess features which are that big, will probably take a year to implement, and then one more year to polish them. If they are going to reach it. 

Sometimes it might be better to go for less, but for better maybe. 

OMG HOW MUCH MORE TO W8 M8 ~!

Edited November 5, 2017 by Mantasisg