Is DayZ still too easy ?

[Nicklander 13]

I've constantly been losing interest in the pve side of DayZ, simply because it became way too easy to survive.
That's why I play mostly pvp for a year or so. There's no challenge in getting hydrated & energized. I noticed that food/drink can spawns were reduced (still not enough imo), but where's the point if you can simply spam apple trees or drink without any risks or limitations at fountains or ponds ? That's just illogical. When you search for apples there should be a message like "Dammit...no more apples left". Same for water sources, you should get nasty side-effects when drinking from doubtful sources (or at least need to use water purification tablets). Ponds should generally be reduced and have some sort of capacity level.

I'm positively surprised by the changes made to zombies in 0.61. At the moment you can simply run away from them since the runspeed is nearly the same, I wonder when the stamina system will be implemented.

I'm convinced that an increasement in pve difficulty would generally make this game even greater. I wish you would have to "do more things" or interact more with the game in order to survive.

[Wili 156]

I agree with the apples, the quantity of apples you get from a tree should be limited or the ability to retrieve apples from apple trees removed completely. Some apple trees should have no apples at all. Same for berries.

Planting something in a garden grows to quickly too, like 10-15 mins.

Zombies are spawning fresh kiwis also :P 

I don't really know about fishing right now but some time ago was too easy to obtain as many fish as you wanted.

Food resources shouldn't be unlimited.

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Wili

[Nicklander 13]

Yeah ! Also what happened to rotten food ?

In some really old DayZ patches this was balanced so much better. I'd like to see rotten items again, it's so much more logical and makes the game more interesting.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Nicklander

[Kohlbar 270]

Yeah, rotten food would be awesome to have again, maybe a chance of apples picked from a tree being rotten. Also I feel like the zombie combat isn't as enjoyable as it could be.

[sneakydude 480]

Yeah even though its too easy, we have to wait until those balances are either done by the devs, or us the modders.

I bet it still will be easy, and it will take us modders to push the envelope. That is ok, this is a BI game, they love what we can do with the main game.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

The OP is obviously right and I believe that adding PVP elements first and waiting with PVE stuff until the later time is a huge mistake for two reasons:

1) PVE stuff will be so much less beta-tested by us. Stun batons and pink balaclavas will have gotten more analysis and insight than food recipes, animal AI, etc. And if anything, it's the latter which will require more testing. As a result, cooking will potentially be more glitched (or just under-developed) than that precious prize you all dream about, the trumpet.

2) People get used to the fact that Dayz is just a poor man's FPS in an exotic land. When the devs finally do get around to cut food spawn, millions of kids will cry that 'you can't force them to play as you like' and 'survival games shouldn't be about survival'. This will affect days development one way or another. I wouldn't be surprised if the end product is much more shooter-oriented than marketed.

Each build, the devs make a big deal out of adding new items that I can't even imagine anyone would like to carry/use/put on/shoot with, etc. I'm no programmer but I sure as hell fail to understand so many decisions.

[Nicklander 13]

Maybe we can motivate the devs by posting some ideas here how the difficulty could be increased the right way.

[Bonappetit 117]

I believe it was 0.48 where the food was so scarce it was a priority over any clothing or a weapon, at least in my case. Also I tried getting light green hydrated and energized by eating apples and it's actually possible, I'd remove that though.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Bonappetit

[Coheed_IV 381]

Yes.

Prediction, many many tears coming within the year. 

[Guy Smiley 534]

Well to even state that this game is too easy in this alpha stage is quite silly.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Guy Smiley

[LackLustreSurvivor 35]

Well...  I did die today of starvation so it's not too easy for me. There are definitely a couple survival features still lacking but they will be in soon enough =)

[Henk Grunn 16]

If you look purely at PVE, then it might be too easy.

You spawn, and have to spend a decent amount of time finding food, not dying by keeping warm when it rains, etc.  And then of course you find some gear that will enable you to give you a chance with some pvp interaction. I think that with 0.61 the difficulty stepped up for all players. Mostly by the number of zeds, and the risk of hypothermia during rain.  

You can still have fun at pve when you set your own goals ( for example, only eat wildlife, or players). But the devs have to balance it in such a way that not only the hardcore pve player can have some fun as well.

Imagine some friends logging in on a saturday night. They want to have a play session together. And the only thing to worry about is to hunt, craft, keep warm,  and they will never be able to meet up during +3> hours, just because it takes that many planning and time to be able to stay alive. That would really take out the fun of this game. Those ppl would really just meet up, and have some pvp interaction with other players.

So, imo it is balanced reasonably.

[BAHADIR 124]

When modding is possible, this game will turn into a garbage, just like namalsk, taviana, epoch. Remember those garbages ?? Where you refuel even without getting out of vehicle, flying jets and driving tanks(in a survival game ? really ?), reduced zombies, 1 million chopper servers, trade system (wtf?), fkn aliens in an infected survival game. I can count more and more reasons like those. And the dumb streamers like frankie and so others keep motivating people to play those garbages.

Edited December 21, 2016 by BAHADIR

[Mookie (original) 799]

This patch is the hardest the game has been for as long as I can remember (I was ok in .55 because IIRC it was a non-wipe patch and I was well established).

The devs probably need to strike a balance between designing something which is a significant PVE challenge on one hand and not alienating significant numbers of people on the other.

[sanguine00 168]

5 hours ago, Mookie (original) said:

This patch is the hardest the game has been for as long as I can remember (I was ok in .55 because IIRC it was a non-wipe patch and I was well established).

The devs probably need to strike a balance between designing something which is a significant PVE challenge on one hand and not alienating significant numbers of people on the other.

Yup.  And I suspect many (not all) people who claim the game is too easy probably have several hundred hours in the game, and would have dropped it if it were as difficult when they started as they want it to be now.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

2 hours ago, sanguine00 said:

Yup.  And I suspect many (not all) people who claim the game is too easy probably have several hundred hours in the game, and would have dropped it if it were as difficult when they started as they want it to be now.

 

I suspect you have nothing to back this suspicion. I remember very well my first steps, when I was eating all those vitamins, purifying water (which wasn't a thing back then), carrying useless stuff like duct tapes, syringes etc. and I was hugely dismayed when I found out that most of this stuff doesn't even work yet. Many players expect DayZ to be super hard because that's what 'survival' means. And fun definitely shouldn't expire at 500hrs ingame.

 

As for 'alienating people', it's precisely what I was talking about - people forgot the meaning of the word 'survival' and expect a shooter but with Soviet vehicles. This why it was wrong to accommodate PVP so much in the first place.

 

A game which provides for multiple various game styles will never be really good at any of them. This is why there is no hunting mechanics in Civilization 6 and no strategic turn-based combat in DayZ.

[sanguine00 168]

11 minutes ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

I suspect you have nothing to back this suspicion. I remember very well my first steps, when I was eating all those vitamins, purifying water (which wasn't a thing back then), carrying useless stuff like duct tapes, syringes etc. and I was hugely dismayed when I found out that most of this stuff doesn't even work yet. Many players expect DayZ to be super hard because that's what 'survival' means. And fun definitely shouldn't expire at 500hrs ingame.

The problem with this mindset is that you seem to think "PvP" and "survival" are mutually exclusive.  They aren't.

Quote

As for 'alienating people', it's precisely what I was talking about - people forgot the meaning of the word 'survival' and expect a shooter but with Soviet vehicles. This why it was wrong to accommodate PVP so much in the first place.

It's funny you should say that, because talk to many PvP'ers and they feel that's the aspect of the game that is being neglected.  DayZ is a multi-faceted game that is in development.  All of the systems feel half-assed because they aren't done yet.

Quote

A game which provides for multiple various game styles will never be really good at any of them. This is why there is no hunting mechanics in Civilization 6 and no strategic turn-based combat in DayZ.

Then you simply don't agree with Bohemia's vision for DayZ.  Read the second half of Brian's entry in the Status Report from December 6.

[DR. IRISHMIKE 80]

I think that where you play has a lot to do with how hard or easy the game is... If you think it's too easy, try playing where I have been playing. Try playing on a First Person server like the UN, =FactionZ=, Underground, or another PVP based server. Having to Deal with Wolves and Zombies is one thing, but having to play against quality players and clans with a PVP emphasis (and also the potential from Friendlies) can make gameplay much more difficult if that is what you are looking for. It's my opinion that this game wasn't created to be a high quality PvE game, it's interactive to the core.

Players that just KOS all the time are also at a disadvantage, because when you play notihng but hostile all the time, you lose the opportunity to build your team / clan, so by necessity recruiting players to join your clan, or that you can at least have a friendly relationship with in game not only provides you with the full gaming experience of DayZ, it makes life easier. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by IRISHMIKE

[boggle 52]

I think it's a step in the right direction, but I think diseases need to be easier to catch. Especially cholera. I think the body temperature setup right now with rain making you hypothermic quickly is good. I think it will be much more difficult once stamina is implemented. Don't forget that bears will be in eventually too, so that's another predator we will have to worry about. I hope they do the damage points on bears right; in that they should be very difficult to kill unless you're using a high power rifle like a blaze, winchester, svd, or mosin. 

[KingOfTime 267]

The game is easy mode right now, impossible to starve or die of thirst. Only real threat is wolves and server hopping coastal campers with AKs. When pvpers say they are being ignored, what they mean is"why dont I have a gun right away/why do I have to eat/survival games shouldnt be hard to survive in/only real threat should be other players/I forgot CS exists."  Surviving in the world, by itself, without other players to be worried about should be hard. If it isnt, then what is the point of calling it a survival game? Why bother farming/fishing/hunting if you dont need to?

 

"It is no secret that DayZ set out to be a punishing survival title from the start of the project."- This, from the Dec.6 status report, gives me great hope for the future of survival in this game. I hope the pvp only crowd doesnt cry their way into making Dayz a casual game.

[Whyherro123 2283]

5 hours ago, sanguine00 said:

 

It's funny you should say that, because talk to many PvP'ers and they feel that's the aspect of the game that is being neglected.  

Pvp..... being neglected?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHA

Oh...... you were serious? Like, actually serious?

OH SWEET JESUS MY SIDES.

The only way PvP could be any more prevalent in Day Z right now is if you had the option to create a class, and your spawned into 15 minute rounds.

[sanguine00 168]

44 minutes ago, Whyherro123 said:

Pvp..... being neglected?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHA

Oh...... you were serious? Like, actually serious?

OH SWEET JESUS MY SIDES.

The only way PvP could be any more prevalent in Day Z right now is if you had the option to create a class, and your spawned into 15 minute rounds.

72-pt font notwithstanding, the point was it depends on your point of view.  PvP'ers have issues with the gunplay that have been ongoing for literally years.  Sway, hold breath, effective range of some weapons, bullet speed, the built-in rangefinder in the PSO-1 is not calibrated, etc.  People who understand the development side know that these will be addressed when it makes sense to do so, but to those who just want to PvP it appears they are just being neglected.

And similarly it appears that the survival mechanics are being neglected to those who simply want Grizzly Adams Simulator 2016.  There are dozens and dozens of items and mechanics already in the game in service of the survivalist play style, but merely having the content isn't enough.  It needs polishing and balancing just like the PvP mechanics do.

Edited December 22, 2016 by sanguine00

[Nicklander 13]

On 21.12.2016 at 1:20 AM, Bonappetit said:

I believe it was 0.48 where the food was so scarce it was a priority over any clothing or a weapon, at least in my case. Also I tried getting light green hydrated and energized by eating apples and it's actually possible, I'd remove that though.

Yes ! I remember that too.

On 21.12.2016 at 5:07 AM, Guy Smiley said:

Well to even state that this game is too easy in this alpha stage is quite silly.

It's silly to talk about bugs in this game, because it's still in alpha stage.

It's silly to discuss pvp/pve/gamemechanics because it's in alpha stage.

It's silly to register on those forums and give feedback, because it's in alpha stage, oh wait....

On 21.12.2016 at 8:24 AM, Henk Grunn said:

Imagine some friends logging in on a saturday night. They want to have a play session together. And the only thing to worry about is to hunt, craft, keep warm,  and they will never be able to meet up during +3> hours, just because it takes that many planning and time to be able to stay alive. That would really take out the fun of this game. Those ppl would really just meet up, and have some pvp interaction with other players.

So, imo it is balanced reasonably.

You're missing a point here. That's what DayZ is about. Go play Battlefield if you simply want to login with your friends, don't worry about a single thing and kill other players. DayZ is not supposed to be some sort of openworld shooter game. At least not in the first place, that would be more the endgame content.

 

On 21.12.2016 at 4:03 PM, sanguine00 said:

And I suspect many (not all) people who claim the game is too easy probably have several hundred hours in the game, and would have dropped it if it were as difficult when they started as they want it to be now.

No, because I bought/support that game for a reason.

 

On 21.12.2016 at 7:52 PM, IRISHMIKE said:

I think that where you play has a lot to do with how hard or easy the game is... If you think it's too easy, try playing where I have been playing. Try playing on a First Person server like the UN, =FactionZ=, Underground, or another PVP based server. Having to Deal with Wolves and Zombies is one thing, but having to play against quality players and clans with a PVP emphasis (and also the potential from Friendlies) can make gameplay much more difficult if that is what you are looking for. It's my opinion that this game wasn't created to be a high quality PvE game, it's interactive to the core.

Players that just KOS all the time are also at a disadvantage, because when you play notihng but hostile all the time, you lose the opportunity to build your team / clan, so by necessity recruiting players to join your clan, or that you can at least have a friendly relationship with in game not only provides you with the full gaming experience of DayZ, it makes life easier. 

I only die in pvp combats, hardly ever because of other reasons. And yes, I only play on pvp servers, most of the time on full servers, cause otherwise it would be too boring for me. KOS is a whole different topic. BUT ! I'm more than convinced that if the game were harder, or if it were more focused on pve, players would be way the hell friendlier to eachother.

I KOS players when I'm super bored and don't know what I should do else. That doesn't only sound wrong, it is in fact wrong. I mean, I could also help players or do something different, but 80% of the cases when I try to help someone I get either kos'd or backstabbed. And a lot of players do KOS because of that exact same reason. That's quite a vicious cycle. The game should motivate the players to actually cooperate.

 

On 21.12.2016 at 8:00 PM, boggle said:

I think it's a step in the right direction, but I think diseases need to be easier to catch. Especially cholera. I think the body temperature setup right now with rain making you hypothermic quickly is good. I think it will be much more difficult once stamina is implemented. Don't forget that bears will be in eventually too, so that's another predator we will have to worry about. I hope they do the damage points on bears right; in that they should be very difficult to kill unless you're using a high power rifle like a blaze, winchester, svd, or mosin. 

Good points !

On 21.12.2016 at 9:03 PM, KingOfTime said:

The game is easy mode right now, impossible to starve or die of thirst. Only real threat is wolves and server hopping coastal campers with AKs. When pvpers say they are being ignored, what they mean is"why dont I have a gun right away/why do I have to eat/survival games shouldnt be hard to survive in/only real threat should be other players/I forgot CS exists."  Surviving in the world, by itself, without other players to be worried about should be hard. If it isnt, then what is the point of calling it a survival game? Why bother farming/fishing/hunting if you dont need to?

 

"It is no secret that DayZ set out to be a punishing survival title from the start of the project."- This, from the Dec.6 status report, gives me great hope for the future of survival in this game. I hope the pvp only crowd doesnt cry their way into making Dayz a casual game.

That's what I'm talking about. In gamedevelopment you need to make decisions. The devs won't be able to please everyone with their game. So either they need to focus more on the gameplay (aka what they promised, aka what DayZ is about following their description of it), or I spend 400 hours on the wrong game. Don't get me wrong, I'm really satisfied with the changes made in 0.61 the devs are on the right path.

20 hours ago, sanguine00 said:

72-pt font notwithstanding, the point was it depends on your point of view.  PvP'ers have issues with the gunplay that have been ongoing for literally years.  Sway, hold breath, effective range of some weapons, bullet speed, the built-in rangefinder in the PSO-1 is not calibrated, etc.  People who understand the development side know that these will be addressed when it makes sense to do so, but to those who just want to PvP it appears they are just being neglected.

Ok, there are some problems with the pvp mechanics, but that's not a major problem at all. Personally, I don't have any problems killing another player if I really want to. The weapons work fine most of the time. Since you really focus on pvp, I'd like to give you an advice, open steam and purchase a game called csgo.

You guys are pointing out some really cool improvements, I hope they'll get implemented.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Nicklander

[Hyperion1817 1]

I know this has been stated previously, but I really feel if starvation and dehydration were a serious threat the survival aspect of the game would improve greatly. Especially if food was somewhat scarce and took a bit of time and effort to come across. 

[sanguine00 168]

24 minutes ago, Nicklander said:

Ok, there are some problems with the pvp mechanics, but that's not a major problem at all. Personally, I don't have any problems killing another player if I really want to. The weapons work fine most of the time. Since you really focus on pvp, I'd like to give you an advice, open steam and purchase a game called csgo.

Again, what is and is not a "major problem" depends on your perspective.  If you are a survivalist, then yes any PvP-related problem isn't a big deal to you.

Also, you have no idea what I focus on.  I was speaking from the perspectives of others who hold a different point of view than me (or you).  You should try it sometime.  I love the survival aspect of the game and enjoy it immensely.