Stable Branch - 0.60 Discussion

[Thurman Merman 726]

19 hours ago, Fing said:

Ok crashed my 4*4 into a tree stump and the windscreen shattered.  I don't mind that happening, but they could at least then give you the option of removing the windscreen so it is easy to see again.

About 10 days ago, I was driving a 4x4 - pristine tires, worn battery and plug - it was pulling so badly to one side (think it was left), that I had to abandon it.  I've driven other 4x4s that didn't have that problem (nor did the sedan I swapped it out for).  Ever seen that?

[Fing 111]

Ok thats it for me on stable 0.60.  With the cars de-spawning and the constant battle of over heating when jogging let alone running I think its time to stop and see what the next exp brings. I don't mid the over heating mechanic to slow the game down, but its the cool down time that is a pain in the bottom even when wet is far to long.  Stripped down to just usmc trousers, assault pack and wet it takes a long time to cool down from hot.  Lets be honest we are not in the middle east here. Yes it can get hot, but with a little soaking you cool down quickly. And yes I have been mainly jogging around the map and not sprinting like the good old days.  But I refuse to make this a walking around the map game especially when vehicles are bugged at the moment.  Not sure whats going on there?  Parked one up in a vehicles tent it spun around on 1 reset trashing it, but still in the tent/ Next server reset its gone.  I wounder if it would have still been there if I had interacted with it or fixed it.

[Kohlbar 270]

8 minutes ago, Fing said:

But I refuse to make this a walking around the map game especially when vehicles are bugged at the moment.  Not sure whats going on there?  Parked one up in a vehicles tent it spun around on 1 reset trashing it, but still in the tent/ Next server reset its gone.  I wounder if it would have still been there if I had interacted with it or fixed it.

It's been confirmed that vehicles aren't persistent this patch, so don't bother trying to store them somewhere. Usually for me it's a hit or miss if I take a vehicle I see. If it just needs 1 or 2 parts I'll look around and fix it up but if it needs a lot then it probably won't be worth the effort of fixing it, considering it'll probably only be useful until the next server restart. And yeah I agree it takes way too long to cool down, downpours seem to help though.

[barnabus 1708]

2 hours ago, Thurman Merman said:

About 10 days ago, I was driving a 4x4 - pristine tires, worn battery and plug - it was pulling so badly to one side (think it was left), that I had to abandon it.  I've driven other 4x4s that didn't have that problem (nor did the sedan I swapped it out for).  Ever seen that?

When that happens use a tire repair kit to repair all the tires, remove them with a lug wrench and reattach them to the vehicle.  Sometimes the tires do not show their true damage state when you inspect them, if you have worn tires they can make the vehicle pull in one direction.  There are still some serious vehicle bugs, this is but one of them.  At least they don't get glued to the ground anymore when in proximity to another vehicle..

[barnabus 1708]

12 minutes ago, Kohlbar said:

It's been confirmed that vehicles aren't persistent this patch, so don't bother trying to store them somewhere. Usually for me it's a hit or miss if I take a vehicle I see. If it just needs 1 or 2 parts I'll look around and fix it up but if it needs a lot then it probably won't be worth the effort of fixing it, considering it'll probably only be useful until the next server restart. And yeah I agree it takes way too long to cool down, downpours seem to help though.

To me, it seems that vehicles are despawing only once a day.  I have been on a server that resets every 4 hours and the vehicle are persisting through a 24 hour period.  I have taken to using barrels to store batteries, lug wrenches, repair kits, headlights, spark plugs and glow plugs near vehicle spawns that are known to me.

[eno 1049]

20 hours ago, barnabus said:

To me, it seems that vehicles are despawing only once a day.  I have been on a server that resets every 4 hours and the vehicle are persisting through a 24 hour period.  I have taken to using barrels to store batteries, lug wrenches, repair kits, headlights, spark plugs and glow plugs near vehicle spawns that are known to me.

I think there's a difference between the forced restarts every 12 hours and the ones manually programmed by the server admin. Seems they'd survive manual restarts- but 24 hours was the most any car survived. 

And I just read in that last update that apparently "vehicle persistence is fine" but the vehicles move to other locations during a restart. I have to admit I lul'd when I read that since I'm not sure how persistence could be "fine" if vehicles despawn from where they are and respawn elsewhere. Even if they have everything on them that I left inside... the persistence isn't exactly working since part of it is that the vehicle remains in place. Or maybe I just don't understand persistence- I don't see tents and barrels despawning and respawning full of whatever loot they had inside so that's sort of what I'm basing my assessment on. 

One thing I will say for certain- at least from my limited perspective on the subject... whatever you want to call the state of vehicle persistence right now has totally killed enthusiasm for .60. Within about 2 weeks it was a shift-W sim regardless of how much the addition of the new renderer was appreciated.  

[Kronons 98]

20 hours ago, Kohlbar said:

It's been confirmed that vehicles aren't persistent this patch, so don't bother trying to store them somewhere. Usually for me it's a hit or miss if I take a vehicle I see. If it just needs 1 or 2 parts I'll look around and fix it up but if it needs a lot then it probably won't be worth the effort of fixing it, considering it'll probably only be useful until the next server restart. And yeah I agree it takes way too long to cool down, downpours seem to help though.

 

20 hours ago, barnabus said:

To me, it seems that vehicles are despawing only once a day.  I have been on a server that resets every 4 hours and the vehicle are persisting through a 24 hour period.  I have taken to using barrels to store batteries, lug wrenches, repair kits, headlights, spark plugs and glow plugs near vehicle spawns that are known to me.

Vehicle persistence has been confirmed to be working as intended by Brian Hicks himself. As I am the one who asked him. I can post a link if you would like. I am not sure where you got your information.

14 minutes ago, eno said:

I think there's a difference between the forced restarts every 12 hours and the ones manually programmed by the server admin. Seems they'd survive manual restarts- but 24 hours was the most any car survived. 

And I just read in that last update that apparently "vehicle persistence is fine" but the vehicles move to other locations during a restart. I have to admit I lul'd when I read that since I'm not sure how persistence could be "fine" if vehicles despawn from where they are and respawn elsewhere. Even if they have everything on them that I left inside... the persistence isn't exactly working since part of it is that the vehicle remains in place. Or maybe I just don't understand persistence- I don't see tents and barrels despawning and respawning full of whatever loot they had inside so that's sort of what I'm basing my assessment on. 

One thing I will say for certain- at least from my limited perspective on the subject... whatever you want to call the state of vehicle persistence right now has totally killed enthusiasm for .60. Within about 2 weeks it was a shift-W sim regardless of how much the addition of the new renderer was appreciated.  

Vehicle persistence and vehicle location/orientation are two different entities. Vehicle persistence means a vehicle will stay the same and hold the same items between server restarts. I.e. if it is a fully working car with guns and ammo inside the car. Once the server restarts the vehicle will maintain its functionality and items. Similar to tents and barrels. If the tent is pristine and has items. On server restarts the tent will maintain its pristine status and items. Now for vehicle location/orientation is when a vehicle moves to a new location. From what I understand the vehicles location and orientation is not saving properly. The vehicles after a period of time loses its location. The symptoms seems to be when the vehicle begins to rotate after server restarts and then eventually disappearing. Which means eventually the vehicle loses it's last location and spawns some where else with everything in the car intact. I have had one instance after a server restart. I found a vehicle on the coast at a vehicle spawn. The sedan was fully working with everything pristine. I can only assume that once the vehicles loses its location it will eventually return to the original spawn. Clear as mud? 

Edited July 27, 2016 by Kronons

[eno 1049]

20 minutes ago, Kronons said:

 

-snip. Clear as mud? 

Yeah- good explanation. Thanks. 

[BCBasher 2465]

25 minutes ago, Kronons said:

 

Vehicle persistence has been confirmed to be working as intended by Brian Hicks himself. As I am the one who asked him. I can post a link if you would like. I am not sure where you got your information.

Vehicle persistence and vehicle location/orientation are two different entities. Vehicle persistence means a vehicle will stay the same and hold the same items between server restarts. I.e. if it is a fully working car with guns and ammo inside the car. Once the server restarts the vehicle will maintain its functionality and items. Similar to tents and barrels. If the tent is pristine and has items. On server restarts the tent will maintain its pristine status and items. Now for vehicle location/orientation is when a vehicle moves to a new location. From what I understand the vehicles location and orientation is not saving properly. The vehicles after a period of time loses its location. The symptoms seems to be when the vehicle begins to rotate after server restarts and then eventually disappearing. Which means eventually the vehicle loses it's last location and spawns some where else with everything in the car intact. I have had one instance after a server restart. I found a vehicle on the coast at a vehicle spawn. The sedan was fully working with everything pristine. I can only assume that once the vehicles loses its location it will eventually return to the original spawn. Clear as mud? 

Thanks for clearing that up even though you mention yourself that you're assuming what's happening.

Last I read from the devs was the vehicles during their movement during restart was causing them to drift into the map and get destroyed/cleaned up but I'll take your word for it.

I'm one of the players who lost interest in the last two patches because the vehicles are fucked, the effort it takes a solo player to fix one is great but the disappointment that comes with it makes me go play something else.   

Edited July 27, 2016 by BCBasher

[eno 1049]

43 minutes ago, BCBasher said:

 

Last I read from the devs was the vehicles during their movement during restart was causing them to drift into the map and get destroyed/cleaned up but I'll take your word for it.

 

I am left wondering sometimes if this is happening with the zombies too- resulting in the "invi-Z-ble" zeds that seem to be able to ghost hit people. I figure with that 10 foot extra reach they get horizontally, it wouldn't be impossible for them to be running around under the world swinging at passers by. Reminds me of when they'd get trapped in the lower floors of 2 story houses and be able to hit you... 

[wasnu 301]

think you are right, saw a lot of zeds running around half in the ground (svetlo).

you can see their upper body and hit them but it takes much more fist hits to kill them.

[barnabus 1708]

1 hour ago, Kronons said:

 

Vehicle persistence has been confirmed to be working as intended by Brian Hicks himself. As I am the one who asked him. I can post a link if you would like. I am not sure where you got your information.

Vehicle persistence and vehicle location/orientation are two different entities. Vehicle persistence means a vehicle will stay the same and hold the same items between server restarts. I.e. if it is a fully working car with guns and ammo inside the car. Once the server restarts the vehicle will maintain its functionality and items. Similar to tents and barrels. If the tent is pristine and has items. On server restarts the tent will maintain its pristine status and items. Now for vehicle location/orientation is when a vehicle moves to a new location. From what I understand the vehicles location and orientation is not saving properly. The vehicles after a period of time loses its location. The symptoms seems to be when the vehicle begins to rotate after server restarts and then eventually disappearing. Which means eventually the vehicle loses it's last location and spawns some where else with everything in the car intact. I have had one instance after a server restart. I found a vehicle on the coast at a vehicle spawn. The sedan was fully working with everything pristine. I can only assume that once the vehicles loses its location it will eventually return to the original spawn. Clear as mud? 

Not too sure about that.  I had a Lada 4x4 next to my tent.  The next day it was gone, nothing in the tent was touched, including the battery, spark plug and the headlights from the same Lada I had stored in the tent.  They seem to be resetting, now maybe that is a bug and I am sure that isn't as intended.  This is happening to many people, have you have a vehicle persist past a 24 hour period yourself or are you just taking someone's word for it?  So clear as mud, you bet it is.  LOL.  I went to look too and it had NOT respawned in it's old location.

Edited July 27, 2016 by barnabus

[Kronons 98]

1 hour ago, BCBasher said:

Thanks for clearing that up even thought you mention yourself that you're assuming what's happening.

Last I read from the devs was the vehicles during their movement during restart was causing them to to drift into the map and get destroyed/cleaned up but I'll take your word for it.

I'm one of the players who lost interest in the last two patches because the vehicles are fucked, the effort it takes a solo player to fix one is great but the disappointment that comes with it makes me go play something else.   

I am taking someone's word. And that someone's word is Brian Hicks. Check this link for yourself.

 

If your car despawns it doesn't necessarily mean it went back to the old location. Vehicles are dynamically spawned on server start. So vehicles are randomly placed on the map. If your vehicle despawns it is possible it respawned at one of the many possible spawn spots. I did not say anything was confirmed. I was stating in my own experience I have come across very few vehicles fully built left at a spawn spot. I don't know if it is possible for a working vehicle to spawn. But I assumed someone's vehicle was spawned at a vehicle spawn location due to the current bug. Majority of the vehicles I find are missing a lot of parts. All is my in my experience and assumptions. But it has been confirmed vehicle persistence is working as intended.

[eno 1049]

2 minutes ago, Kronons said:

I am taking someone's word. And that someone's word is Brian Hicks. Check this link for yourself.

 

 

Yeah, the same guy that said you could reset the timer for your storage inventory by moving one item back in .59... And that in .60 it was 8 days and my 3 week old barrel (a month now?) is still there untouched.

So while I do appreciate your input on the subject (we know he said persistence was working fine) I think your dependence on the accuracy of Hicks' statements as if it was the gospel itself is drastically misplaced. Besides- who gives a flying fuck if persistence is fine if the vehicles despawn anyway? 

[wasnu 301]

i agree with many things eno, but hicks said, you don´t have to move items in your barrel to reset the timer. you only have to see it in your inv. window

 

it´s enough to see the barrel in your inventory window. this works like intended and barrels stay exactly 8 days without viewing them in your inv. screen.

tested it and it works, like hicks said.

[Kronons 98]

4 minutes ago, eno said:

Yeah, the same guy that said you could reset the timer for your storage inventory by moving one item back in .59... And that in .60 it was 8 days and my 3 week old barrel (a month now?) is still there untouched.

So while I do appreciate your input on the subject (we know he said persistence was working fine) I think your dependence on the accuracy of Hicks' statements as if it was the gospel itself is drastically misplaced. Besides- who gives a flying fuck if persistence is fine if the vehicles despawn anyway? 

You sir need to watch your language. Secondly you ask why I take Hick's opinion so seriously? He is the creative director and one of the developers of this game. Are you developing the game? Do you understand what is happening under the hood? NO. They are the only line of communication we can get. So if the person who is working on the game says it is working as intended then it is. If you do not believe so provide proof, create a ticket, do something constructive rather than acting childish. 

 

You sir I will block/ignore for your statement. 

[eno 1049]

Just now, Kronons said:

You sir need to watch your language. Secondly you ask why I take Hick's opinion so seriously? He is the creative director and one of the developers of this game. Are you developing the game? Do you understand what is happening under the hood? NO. They are the only line of communication we can get. So if the person who is working on the game says it is working as intended then it is. If you do not believe so provide proof, create a ticket, do something constructive rather than acting childish. 

 

You sir I will block/ignore for your statement. 

You must be an absolute DELIGHT to live with. 

[eno 1049]

23 minutes ago, wasnu said:

i agree with many things eno, but hicks said, you don´t have to move items in your barrel to reset the timer. you only have to see it in your inv. window

 

it´s enough to see the barrel in your inventory window. this works like intended and barrels stay exactly 8 days without viewing them in your inv. screen.

tested it and it works, like hicks said.

My experience has differed in.60- and it DEFINITELY differed back in .59 where we lost untold amounts of meticulously organized loot because he forgot to mention that by interacting with the inventory you actually had to empty / pack / pitch the entire storage item (tent / barrel) as well. 

Hence I don't take any suggestion that his word is gold by any stretch. We're talking about the same guy that said that the game was going to be in Beta Q2 / 2016. And he was wrong- and that's fine... the roadmap and reasons and new tech etc. Literally... It's fine and expected. 

But for anyone to sit there and trumpet on about how "he's a dev and the blah blah blah" and that validates everything a persons says like it's true on principle... yeah, no. Devs are wrong about a lot of things all the time. That's the point of alpha... 

I play(ed) DayZ regularly with some of the most enthusiastic bug chasers the game probably knows... Actually, correction. I don't think any of them are playing right now for exactly this reason. BUT when they played they took it on as a challenge to test game functions and features to see what worked and what didn't... but gradually realized this was futile since nobody was ever particularly open with what was expected. Or even KNEW how they wanted to work since the game meta seems to shift from one new gun to the next. How can you tell if something is working or not if you don't know how it's supposed to be working because you don't know what the game is supposed to be?

/rant. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by eno

[Dudester100 448]

33 minutes ago, eno said:

 who gives a flying fuck if persistence is fine if the vehicles despawn anyway? 

Apparently amazon sells remote controlled flying fucks to give to people :P

https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Controlled-Flying-F-ck/dp/B002P4J2P8

[eno 1049]

1 minute ago, Dudester100 said:

Apparently amazon sells remote controlled flying fucks to give to people :P

https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Controlled-Flying-F-ck/dp/B002P4J2P8

I think it's hilarious that "people also bought" the red "bullshit" hot button. Going to be an expensive month, me thinks. 

[blackberrygoo 1416]

I'm gonna grab a vehicle and see if it's persistent for more than a restart , but afaik about two weeks ago they werent at all :( .

[barnabus 1708]

1 hour ago, blackberrygoo said:

I'm gonna grab a vehicle and see if it's persistent for more than a restart , but afaik about two weeks ago they werent at all :( .

It should persist for more than one restart, depending on the server.  Some are still doing 4 hour resets and vehicle are persisting through at least enough to go 24 hours, this is what I am seeing and am not depending on someone else's word for it..

[barnabus 1708]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 9:07 AM, Dudester100 said:

Apparently amazon sells remote controlled flying fucks to give to people :P

https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Controlled-Flying-F-ck/dp/B002P4J2P8

Sorry, my give a fuck meter is pegged at absolute zero, so I have no fucks left to just "give away" like that, flying or not.

 

 

[philbur 476]

On ‎2016‎-‎07‎-‎27 at 2:45 PM, eno said:

My experience has differed in.60- and it DEFINITELY differed back in .59 where we lost untold amounts of meticulously organized loot because he forgot to mention that by interacting with the inventory you actually had to empty / pack / pitch the entire storage item (tent / barrel) as well. 

Hence I don't take any suggestion that his word is gold by any stretch. We're talking about the same guy that said that the game was going to be in Beta Q2 / 2016. And he was wrong- and that's fine... the roadmap and reasons and new tech etc. Literally... It's fine and expected. 

But for anyone to sit there and trumpet on about how "he's a dev and the blah blah blah" and that validates everything a persons says like it's true on principle... yeah, no. Devs are wrong about a lot of things all the time. That's the point of alpha... 

I play(ed) DayZ regularly with some of the most enthusiastic bug chasers the game probably knows... Actually, correction. I don't think any of them are playing right now for exactly this reason. BUT when they played they took it on as a challenge to test game functions and features to see what worked and what didn't... but gradually realized this was futile since nobody was ever particularly open with what was expected. Or even KNEW how they wanted to work since the game meta seems to shift from one new gun to the next. How can you tell if something is working or not if you don't know how it's supposed to be working because you don't know what the game is supposed to be?

/rant. 

As I posted....back in 2015!

"I personally hope that Brian and the others have internally decided to use the coming quarters as a structured "milestone" time of the development phase. As I am not one of them (and neither are any of you) then I can only speculate....but this past year has seen so many wasted cycles by the team just being reactive to whatever focus we happened to trend on.

 

If the team would be more specific in their requirements from us as Alpha testers then maybe we can better add to their hard data and the resulting monthly progress would be far more efficient than perhaps it is otherwise. All in all, though, I am sure the core testing crew are given absolute requirements rather than just being told to "go have some fun with the cool new stuff". This leaves us as ancillary participants and it is kind of them to refer to us as Alpha Testers...but quite honestly the bug reports and content feedback is more likely a distraction rather than constructive input. We are being given an opportunity to share in the development process in a way that has not been readily available for big titles and I personally find it interesting that as I have played over this past year I have a better understanding of game mechanics and the inter-relationships of the various layers of design. Back in the day of id Software and the early years of Valve they had some pretty interesting game development blogs and progress reports, but most of it was just fluff and was more for the magazine articles and pre-launch hype than it was for true fans to feel better connected. You can sit behind a wall of glass and watch your Porsche or BMW being assembled...but do you actually help? You just dropped $140k on a car, and you are given less access to the product than you have with a $30 game....perspective is a learned attribute, apparently.

 

On the contrary, is the story from the DAyZ team, where we have transparency on a forensic level compared to most other games. The forums have been a constant ebb and flow of emotion and outright lunacy and I am under no illusion this coming year is going to be any different....that is, unless the team chooses to take the point and set the tone early on. I would like to see them drop a release onto experimental and then ask specific questions from the user base. If it has made it past art and coding then chances are it is something they want to be included and unless it fails to impress THEM then it is most likely a foregone conclusion and we are only needed to provide mass-deployment, server loading, and stability metrics. If the team were to treat us as an attentive and willing datum pool rather than vast and oppressive customer base then I honestly think there would be a cleaner line of sight between Devs and Alphers. With apologies to anyone who feels offended, the maturity level is something that can't realistically be controlled, so a lot of the pain is inevitable....but..the choice, for example, of some team members to chime in on Twitter, Reddit, and other SM sites is like watching slow motion train wrecks. You just KNOW a fed Troll is a happy Troll and you guys still do it. I would welcome a related Twitch stream of releases so we can first WATCH the changes being demonstrated by the people who built it, with an explanation of what they want out of the content and what they want us to provide feedback on. (Hicks can only make casual conversation with Septic for so long before he is overcome by his compunction for mischief and outright banditry). With a Twitch tutorial to go by, I think the time between releases would be a tad more civil and progress would be more easily "felt" by us."

 

I am disappointed that the team never went this route...maybe just my own expectations, but once a Stable build gets "old" it really puts the brakes on my enthusiasm (mind you...I still feel compelled to log in and wander the map for hours...just to immerse my stressed-out ass in the coolness that is Chenarus)  ;-)

Edited July 29, 2016 by philbur

[Kohlbar 270]

Good points. I would really like if with each new update there was a list of things that the devs had just introduced and needed tested and/or were curious about. With a massive base of players I think a little direction would go a long way for bug testing purposes. I remember looking at each changelog as sort of a "to do list" in my DayZ sessions.