"Nail Bats" and other (realistically) crappy weapons

[Whyherro123 2283]

Just a little bit of discussion!

 

So, in various video games, movies, and even on this forum, I see a lot of love for the "nail-bat". For those of you that don't know what this is, it is basically a baseball bat, or any length of wood, with nails driven through it

 

 

What I don't understand is the sheer worship for this weapon. For anyone with actual experience in fighting, or any knowledge of anatomy, a nailbat would be either 1) hilariously ineffective, or 2) an active hindrance, in a fight

 

So, yeah, a baseball bat is basically a club, right? Heavy length of wood you wallop things with? Pretty effective for the last 500,000 years or so, not going to argue that. However, taking a perfectly serviceable club and driving nails through it actually makes it less effective as a weapon. Let me go through the details

 

1) Physics

 

So, force = mass x acceleration, right? The heavier something is, and the faster you swing it, the harder it will hit something, correct? 

 

However, you are forgetting "drag" in  the equation. Drag, which can also be called "air resistance", is essentially ( I am not a physicist, here, so bear with me) is essentially friction in the direction opposite of movement, due to air moving around the shape of the object. Round objects already have a large amount of air resistance, and adding spikes around the surfaces just add to the drag. So, by adding spikes to a bat, you are essentially slowing down the swing of the weapon. Not much, but it is still there. And, since you are slowing down the weapon, you are decreasing the amount of force impacted to the target.

 

 

2) Misdirection of force.

 

By driving nails through the bat, you are in effect creating oblique angles to the direction of force. These angles would intercept the target before the bat, causing the bat to "rotate" in a sense, and lose energy. Essentially, you would be striking a glancing blow.

 

3) Loss of integrity

 

By driving nails through the bat, you are weakening the integrity of the wood the bat is made of. You are separating the wood fibers, making it more likely the wood will split. And, by using the bat, you are placing more stress on these separation points (see above), making it even more likely the bat will split down the grain with heavy use. Yes, you can reinforce the fibers with heat and tape, but a solid bat will be more structurally sound.

 

4) Anatomy

 

When you drive something into the flesh, blood pressure from inside the body changes. When you bleed, you lose blood pressure. But when the object stays inside the body, like a nail from a nailbat, the blood pressure will serve to "hold" the object in place (note: this is why you don't want to pull stabbing/puncturing objects from an injury, at least not right away). This isn't exactly strong, but couple this suction with bunched muscle fibers and a moving limb, and the weapon can/will be held in place for a split second, as opposed to a "regular" bat which can be drawn back.

 

Adrenaline would prevent the opponent from feeling much pain, and they are already inside the reach of your weapon. Couple that with you being unable to retrieve it right away, and you could be in for a spot of trouble.

 

Now, I am not saying that a nail-bat is completely inept as a weapon. They just aren't "God-tier", and there are many things "wrong" with them that make them less effective, especially when compared to a "standard" club

Edited November 25, 2015 by Whyherro123

[Bororm 1156]

Option A:  I hit you with a regular bat.

Option B:  I hit you with a nail bat.

 

Which do you choose?

[Whyherro123 2283]

Huh, I thought I canceled this thread. ....... woops

 

B: nail bat. Of course, I would prefer to not be hit at all, but if I had to choose, I would choose nail bat. The swing would be slower, the force of the swing would be directed away from my flesh by the projecting nails, and the guy is unlikely to get his weapon back, as capillary action in the flesh would effectively "suck" the nails into the muscle, making it hard to pull away. Adrenaline would cover the pain, at least at first, and I could beat the guy to death before he could pull it out of me and back for another swing.

 

I would take a couple of puncture wounds and some heavy bruising over a shattered humerus/femur any day of the week.

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

When the nails on the bat hit your skull all the force is transmitted to the nails, and as the cross section of the nails is smaller all the power of the swing drives  the nails into your brain.

[-Gews- 7443]

The problem I have with nail bat is the practicality of carrying such a thing without puncturing yourself.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Bro.... Drag is going to have little to no effect on this.  If we're going to get semantic i'd take a guess at the weight increasing force more than the air resistance decreases it to neutral (unchanged bat).

The nails are going to puncture you.

They are going to provide a greater possibility of infection.

You are still going to be connecting with a large majority of the impulse, only now you will also have a guaranteed puncture and blood loss upon contact.

 

The nail bat is going to be quite a lot more detrimental to the person on the receiving end.

 

The only real negative that I can give for this weapon adjustment would be that it may result in your weapon becoming lodged in the flesh of the enemy.  This can be a pro if you can incapacitate them in the connecting hit, as then when you rip it out of them they are passive and you do even more damage.

 

But in a situation where you are confronted with multiple close threats, you want a weapon that you can continue to swing and not spend time dislodging from debris/corpses.

Also, if the thing you are impacting is stronger or more resillient than a single hit would allow, then you are either stuck trying to pull your weapon out of this now enraged thing, or you lose it as the opponent moves away, taking it with it.

 

It also instills a degree of fear, which though not particularly useful in most video games, adds to the 'badassery' as we know it is going to do (or at least looks like it will - and i'm quite certain it would at least be more unpleasant).

 

Bare bat 10/10 would receive again.

[Whyherro123 2283]

When the nails on the bat hit your skull all the force is transmitted to the nails, and as the cross section of the nails is smaller all the power of the swing drives  the nails into your brain.

 Not really.

 

1) As above, the nails are likely to be driven through the bat at an angle. Hell, this is what they did in-game, including having the heads, not the sharp ends, sticking out!

 

 

Couple that with the point above, about how the nails are going to come into contact with the target first, make the bat "roll", and strike a glancing blow.

 

2) Bone is hard. Really, REALLY, REALLY hard. Steel knives often chip when they cut into bone. A relatively-dull-point striking at an oblique angle is unlikely to punch straight through

 

3) The head of the target can move freely with the blow, which in effect would severely lessen the amount of force impacted. A human skull, neck and spine are not nice and braced, immobile, on a table for you to swing at

 

4) All the nails would do, even if they did punch through, is make a nice neat little puncture wound. Considering how people can easily survive getting shot through the head, that ..... isn't really going to cut it.

 

I am not saying it wouldn't be effective. It would still hurt like hell. It just wouldn't plow through your skull like a missle.

[Whyherro123 2283]

-snip-

That is, of course, if they insert the nails at a straight angle. Both the picture I linked to, and the in-game model, don't.

 

Sure, you will get cut up. But, again, I will take some lacerations puncturing and deep bruising over a shattered bone. Might just be me, but "heavily injured" beats "crippled"

[Whyherro123 2283]

And.... here we go.

 

https://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/223709-baseball-bat-make-it-deadlier-by-yourself/?hl=%2Bbaseball+%2Bbat+%2Bnails

 

The video I linked to is particularly interesting. A baseball bat modification that is actually ridiculously effective.

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

OK prove your contention that a nail bat is no good  let some one hit you in the head with a nail bat  but don't have a helmet on at the time.  

[Bororm 1156]

Never mind this is just beyond retarded.  Forget physics, the OP needs to learn common sense first.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Bororm

[Deathlove 2280]

The nail bat would be ineffective in long term fights. Not to mention there is the chance to get it stuck in your back in any giving situation or trip and fall on it.

 

A better option would be an aluminum bat which hits MUCH harder, it last longer and can fuck up a mans skull much easier.

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by Deathlove

[LucidHills 94]

Both sides of this argument are right and wrong.
Air drag is not an issue in any way. All the effort you have to put in to swing a bat is fighting inertia, not drag.
Adding nails would have advantages and disadvantages in terms of damage. They have mostly already been discussed but it all just comes down to a trade off.

I don't think either way is 'better'. I wouldn't want to be hit with either.

As for in-game, I'd say the nailed bat should have higher bleed chance and damage but lower shock. 

[Red_Ensign 990]

there's like a dozen kinds of helmets and armor in this game.  look at historical weapons designed to mess up someone in armor, and see how many don't have pointy bits.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

That is, of course, if they insert the nails at a straight angle. Both the picture I linked to, and the in-game model, don't.

 

Sure, you will get cut up. But, again, I will take some lacerations puncturing and deep bruising over a shattered bone. Might just be me, but "heavily injured" beats "crippled"

 

Your OP shows a lot of pointy ends.

 

I'm trying hard not to geek out on this one, but I can say with relative confidence that either way, it's going to be less pleasant than a standard bat.

 

@ Red_Ensign

Weapons designed to ignore or work against armor are generally quite specific. 

Scimitar was designed to slice through leather, Broadsword was designed to cleave through steel, Bodkin were designed to pierce through chain link...

You can smash at something all day, but if you don't focus the force it's going to be less efficient.  That's why knobs, edges and ridges are there for too.

 

Ultimately I don't have any issue if it's coming in.  It's something cool.  Sure, maybe something cliche, but the same as with a blade, if i were staring down something that's probably going to cut me up as well as the chance of a broken bone, i know where my feet go.

Edited November 25, 2015 by q.S Sachiel

[Konfucious K 183]

I'm just not a big fan of this weapon (IRL) in general, but it does have a certain iconic status so it would be weird to have an apocalypse game without it. Anyway it's in now and looks pretty cool, but when it was first put in it was quite overpowered, I think it may have been scaled back a bit because it took me three solid hits to take an infected down with one today.

 

As for the original post, I've been hit by a baseball bat and I guarantee you that experience would NOT have been enhanced by several rusty nails sticking out of it, adrenaline or not. And I "won" that fight in the end!

[emuthreat 2837]

Nails would most likely rip the flesh even if it were a glancing blow, and a good direct hit could possibly snag the person being hit.  I would imagine it could be used to drag, push or pull a person, if the nails got good and sunk into the shoulder, leg, or ribs.  I don't care how much adrenaline is pumping, if you have a bunch of nails sunk into you and also connected to a stick, your body is going to want to go whichever direction the stick goes, for as long as a few of them sumbitches are still stuck into ya.

 

Given that a framing nail driven through a bat would only stick out  15 to 20 mm, and that each nail would require pre-drilling to avoid splitting the bat,  it seems like this is a severely impractical weapon to construct and use..  A few large spikes would ensure a devastatingly painful series of punctures, but the larger the spikes, the bigger the holes in the bat would have to be.  It seems a lot more effective to just use a few box nails to secure barbed wire to the bat.  Barbed wire would keep a lower profile, add more force of weight to the swing, be less unwieldy and dangerous to the user, and still add a significant amount of spice to the interactions of that particular baseball bat.

[gannon46 788]

A war hammer would be best for bone and one could be easily made. could punch through armored helms and the like. though its not as cool as the baseball bat it would be highly effective.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Yea whoever said a club isn't more badass and threatening than a regular club .... Oh wait , everyone who's ever lived in the dark ages ! :

http://medieval.stormthecastle.com/armorypages/club.htm

Although a nailed baseball bats more impractical than what I just linked , it would still hurt , and the nails would not bend when they puncture the foremost of your skin , and when someone drives nails into a bat where do you think they will hit you with it ? The back , the leg , the chest? Most likely the face , so You can suffer mild head trauma and a couple of gashes to the face , not to mention the nails don't make it nearly top heavy enough to imbalance it so as long as you don't have to pull it out of the opponents face the first strike , you can come with a backhand strike making up for its reduced blunt trauma (it would have to be driven Into his skull for an average man to struggle with the pull it out, and in regards to adrenaline : Im pretty sure the attacker would have much more of it ) .

But if I were to make the choice I would pick up a baseball bat and save my nails , a nailed bat hurts in many ways that a regular bat cannot (fear reducing the defenders adrenaline to fight back after being hit , bleeding and blunt trauma damage + pure shock value) but a regular bat is going to have a better chance to guarantee a knockout than a nailed bat would, and that's precious to someone in the apocalypse not trying to rack up a body count . So I have to disagree with the dismissal of how deadly it still is but I do agree the regular bat is more practical in terms of carrying and knock outs !

[pilgrim* 3513]

                   

 

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanab%C5%8D

Edited November 25, 2015 by pilgrim

[over9000nukez 199]

 Not really.

 

1) As above, the nails are likely to be driven through the bat at an angle. Hell, this is what they did in-game, including having the heads, not the sharp ends, sticking out!

In DayZ the nail points are sticking out.

 

The reason in medieval times they used maces with points is because they wanted to pierce armor, and I'm certain it would pierce your skin.

 

Now the point of nails isn't just for "looking cool", if you received a blow (even with the heads of the nails sticking out) It will stick, and RIP your skin out, we're not talking about bruising anymore, we're talking about your meat leaving your arms, legs, body, and even your head. The idea that you "lose velocity" because the bat has nails in it is pretty pathetic, it's such a small thing to point out, I might as well say the "nails add weight to the end, so now it should do more damage"

 

I can only assume you've never seen the in-game image of the DayZ baseball bat with nails, because you're saying that they don't point out at right angles, so here's a google search:

 

http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dayz.gamepedia.com/thumb/e/e8/Nailed_Baseball_Bat.png/600px-Nailed_Baseball_Bat.png?version=010f7735a757f912321d3c2ffdd41544

 

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZNgcIaeQW1o/maxresdefault.jpg

.

That's an image of the real DayZ nailed bat, the points stick out, and if you received a blow with that you would be absolutely destroyed. Doesn't matter if your wearing thick leather, or any sort of protection, it would punch holes in your clothes, and you.

Edited November 25, 2015 by over9000nukez

[BeefBacon 1185]

Yeah I can attest to the air drag thing. Tested it, even. Swung a regular baseball bat no problem. Hammered some nails into it and it was like lifting Thor's Hammer. When I was finally able to gather enough strength to swing it it was like dragging a chain through drying cement. At one point I let go of it mid-swing and it just hanged in the air. There was so much drag that it could just float. Obviously I freaked out and called a physicist. Before long the area had been cordoned off by the military and I was detained. They asked me all sorts of questions about how I was able to defy physics, and I explained that all I'd done was hammer some nails into a rounders bat. Now that was my first mistake, because I told the physicist it was a baseball bat. For ten years they held me. They built a small base around the nailed bat. It took months of work and more energy than I can even comprehend, but they were eventually able to move the bat into an underground bunker where they could hide it away until they understood it better. Every day someone would come in and question me. Every day I told them the same thing, but they never forgave me for calling it a rounders bat. At one point they subjected me to horrific tests, examining my biology. They put me through a mass spectrometer towards the end, but they found nothing out of the ordinary. I guess they concluded that I wasn't a threat and that I'd created a gravity-defying artifact by mistake. I've been trying to reintegrate into society. Everyone I know has moved on. I am alone.

 

Don't put nails in baseball bats. It isn't worth it.

Edited November 25, 2015 by BeefBacon

[KenoSkir88 181]

Huh, I thought I canceled this thread. ....... woops

 

B: nail bat. Of course, I would prefer to not be hit at all, but if I had to choose, I would choose nail bat. The swing would be slower, the force of the swing would be directed away from my flesh by the projecting nails, and the guy is unlikely to get his weapon back, as capillary action in the flesh would effectively "suck" the nails into the muscle, making it hard to pull away. Adrenaline would cover the pain, at least at first, and I could beat the guy to death before he could pull it out of me and back for another swing.

 

I would take a couple of puncture wounds and some heavy bruising over a shattered humerus/femur any day of the week.

 

Umm.. No.

 

The extra drag would be negligible. I get what you're sort of trying to say, but i don't think it makes any sense. If i hit you in the head with a nail-bat, the nails will pierce your skull, and the bat will cause serious fracturing and plenty of hydraulic shock. As i wrench it out again it's going to do even more damage, probably leading to serious bleeding, nerve damage and shock.

 

It's not an either / or choice. You're either getting bones broken by a bat, or bones broken by a bat, heavy bleeding, organ damage etc.

[CornProducts 315]

Buy 2 watermelons.

 

Smack one with a baseball bat.

 

Smack the other with nail bat.

 

Report back when finished. I want pictures damnit!

[Deathlove 2280]

Iv already posted this once but ill do it again since its relevant.

 

 

We NEED an aluminum bat please. One to two hit kill to the fucking head end of story.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Deathlove