Third Person View should be Over-the-Shoulder, NOT a bird's eye view.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

 

 

 

brofist

 

 

To use your wording, it operates under the assumption that if "Do something?" (ie. Do ANYTHING to change the game) is true (ie. is the majority), then the largest SUB-group of the "Do something?" votes is the majority of that majority.

 

"Keep 3PP in game" vs "Get rid of it" combines the two questions to cherry pick data with intent to ignore 24% of the votes. That's not how it works. You don't get to ignore data because it doesn't fit your agenda, unless you're a politician.

 

Yes, but the majority of people still voted for the first option. Were the poll arranged differently or split up better then the data would be easier to analyze however it wasn't.

 

Whether or not I'm "cherry picking information", it's quite clear that complete removal of third person is not the most popular idea.

 

The majority do not advocate for third person being removed. Plain and simple.

(and regardless, it likely won't happen anyway... the devs have shown that they prefer having the option and split servers)

Edited November 20, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I'm going to reuse your statement. Lets see if you can follow along..

 

Given:

95 people vote they don't candy

43 people vote they like Snickers

16 people vote they like Kitkat

47 people vote they like Gobstoppers

 

"More people voted in this poll that they don't like candy. That is an undeniable fact".

 

While the statement is true given the structure of the poll, you say this implying that the majority of voters don't like candy, which is not true.

That's not even the same kind of question question....

 

 

95 people vote they are okay with the current candy selection / are okay with current 3pp

43 people vote they want Twix added to the menu / think 3pp should be over the shoulder

16 people vote they want some other kind of candy added to the menu / think 3pp should be different but not as suggested in this thread

47 people vote they don't think candy should be an option. / think 3pp should be removed.

 

Yes, a larger portion of the people that voted there believe that candy should change. However, the majority also seems to be okay with candy existing in some form, and would not pick the fourth option.

You're making a false correlation.

[evil koala 22]

That's not even the same kind of question question....

 

 

95 people vote they are okay with the current candy selection / are okay with current 3pp

43 people vote they want Twix added to the menu / think 3pp should be over the shoulder

16 people vote they want some other kind of candy added to the menu / think 3pp should be different but not as suggested in this thread

47 people vote they don't think candy should be an option. / think 3pp should be removed.

 

Yes, a larger portion of the people that voted there believe that candy should change. However, the majority also seems to be okay with candy existing in some form, and would not pick the fourth option.

You're making a false correlation.

 

You're taking the input of 95 people who don't want any change at all and using it to determine what change to make, when any change made is already unacceptable to them. You assume that some of the optional changes which they did not vote for may be more or less acceptable to that group. The data does not support that conclusion without subjective insight. It doesn't say anywhere what those 95 people would prefer should a change be made. Maybe they have no preference and would just quit because they didn't want a change at all. Maybe some would rather see it removed entirely than changed. Maybe some would prefer over the shoulder. It just doesn't say, so it can't be used to determine what change to make.

 

That being said, I agree with you on one thing. If the poll were more clearly written I'm sure that removing 3PP would be lower on the list. But the data does not support that in its current form and can't be leveraged to that end.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Evil Koala

[Judopunch 523]

 

 

 

brofist

 

 

To use your wording, it operates under the assumption that if "Do something?" (ie. Do ANYTHING to change the game) is true (ie. is the majority), then the largest SUB-group of the "Do something?" votes is the majority of that majority.

 

"Keep 3PP in game" vs "Get rid of it" combines the two questions to cherry pick data with intent to ignore 24% of the votes. That's not how it works. You don't get to ignore data because it doesn't fit your agenda, unless you're a politician.

 

Are you a logition or a statistician?

[Judopunch 523]

There are servers that let you play with others in 1pp so you can be on the "same level".

 

This argument is what I really dont like. 

The op said "I think the system is fair" in the first 3 lines of the post. 

 

I disagree with him. I put this question to the OP and now I ask it to you...

 

I disagree with this the most. I think this is WHY it needs to be changed. As someone brought up if you are on the hospital roof you have a massively unfair advantage to anyone not on a higher elevation then you.

 

Thats just one really clear example of why it needs to be changed. In this game death is a HUGE setback and to give that kind of unequivocal power to someone who just lays down on a roof with god-cam activated is just not fun.

 

 

Are you OK with an unequivocal advantage for someone laying on the roof, who can kill you at will, when death is a major setback in this game?

[evil koala 22]

Are you a logition or a statistician?

 

My work involves a good deal of statistics, but no, I'm not a statistician by title.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Evil Koala

[Evil Minion 943]

There are servers that let you play with others in 1pp so you can be on the "same level".

Too bad its not a question of being on the "same level". Its about the implications on gameplay which are plenty and significant resulting in a massively poorer experience. Peeking does not only hurt first person players - it hurts everyone (see above) and even people who are using peeking themselves are unable to defend against it in many situations because its not a symmetric feature and probably not even a feature to begin with.

 

So in terms of severity it tops the gamma glitch which is at least symmetric and can be defended against my using it as well - even though you could argue that peeking only gives you a situational advantage while gamma glitch is permanent. So first person servers are as much a "fix" as daytime servers are a "fix" for gamma glitching and private servers are a "fix" for server hopping (though server hopping is a completely different league hurting the gamplay much more than both of the former together).

[Blankki 7]

Anyone else feel it doesn't fit in with the nature of the game?  This may be a topic that's been here like a hundred times but i just think the 3rd person camera doesn't serve the game well. I mean isn't it supposed to be kind of like zombie apocalypse simulator game?  Being able to see over fences and walls and behind corners is kinda BS in this kind of game, it takes away a lot of the surprise elements.

 

And yeah there's option to go to 1st person only servers and all that. It's just they are much more rare and harder to find good servers with it. Just wondering why the 3rd person servers are so much more popular, i don't understand it :P

 

end of rambling.

[poster 23]

This might be merged with any of the more poplar threads on this topic. There's one out there with a poll on it, and last I saw it was basically an even scale of "I want it to stay the same" and "Take it out completely". I only want it to look at how bada** my character can be with gear, but I also don't want it because it makes the game play utter crap in a hostile situation. 1st person servers fix that problem entirely, making you rely on other aspects of game play instead of just looking over a fence or around the corner with the camera and not your character. That's why people love it imho.

[-Gews- 7443]

Just wondering why the 3rd person servers are so much more popular, i don't understand it

 

-feels much smoother running around 

-can see over and around obstacles by tilting camera without exposing character

-can see your character, models, animations from most angles

-illusion of greater field of view

-can be better for those who get motion sickness

[Karmaterror 982]

The devs have said they cater for both views....end of.

 

PS I have no probs finding populated 1st or 3rd servers on the server list

 

inb4 lock/merge :)

[Buck10489 29]

Anyone else feel it doesn't fit in with the nature of the game?  This may be a topic that's been here like a hundred times but i just think the 3rd person camera doesn't serve the game well. I mean isn't it supposed to be kind of like zombie apocalypse simulator game?  Being able to see over fences and walls and behind corners is kinda BS in this kind of game, it takes away a lot of the surprise elements.

 

And yeah there's option to go to 1st person only servers and all that. It's just they are much more rare and harder to find good servers with it. Just wondering why the 3rd person servers are so much more popular, i don't understand it :P

 

end of rambling.

Here we go again. The game has third person deal with it. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean anything. Deal with it

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

I used to be ardently opposed to the third-person camera. The many people who simply sit behind the corner of a building, or hide just behind a ledge, were assholes to me, unwilling to engage in a realistic fight, instead resorting to tactics that ruin the game. My thinking was that this basically makes it impossible to enter any city or built-up area whatsoever, since technically there could be some dude behind any given building or fence, watching you for the perfect moment to strike while remaining completely invisible to you. The idea that there was no risk to scouting was abhorrent, that this magical third eye could obviate so many of the potentially interesting and enjoyable aspects of an authentic tactical experience was a shame.

 

Then a friend of mine made an excellent, simple point. "I don't like first-person servers because they aren't balanced for snipers."

 

The idea of actual balance hadn't entered my mind, really. I thought back to my days playing the mod. All the times I'd been killed by ghillie-suited snipers from more than 800 metres away, never able to see the face of my killer, never having a real chance to even spot the danger before I was dead. Realistic, perhaps (ignoring the fact that nobody in real life would actually just sit around waiting to snipe someone), but highly annoying.

 

Sure, it might not be realistic, but after much thought on the matter I have arrived at the idea that I would rather deal with the ledge-camping morons who like to camp from Elektro to Balota than deal with the many, many bad snipers from the mod who, after putting enough bullets in the air, could kill me without me having a real chance to respond. At least with the ledge campers, I have a miniscule chance. It's still a bad situation, but it's the lesser of two evils.

 

In the words of that same friend of mine, "Give me a bike mirror on a stick so I can look out from behind a wall without getting shot, and I'll play on first-person."

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Is it balanced? Nope. Does development care? Nope.

Will a ton of baddies chime in about how it IS balanced? Yup.

#inb4lock

[Maia (DayZ) 93]

 

-can be better for those who get motion sickness

This for me. Just this. I play 1st pp servers as much as I can but ultimately I am very limited on how long I can play because of this.

[AmberHelios 2071]

Merged with mega-thread on the topic 

 

don't like 3rd person go on 1st person only servers, jobs a good'un 

Edited December 16, 2014 by AmberHelios

[BleedoutBill 1636]

I really dislike the Third Person View. Not because it isn't strictly a first person perspective of the world, but because the 3rd Person View in this game is far too advantageous and immersion breaking. I don't have anything against people who like it, and it's kind of sad that on this website I have to make sure some of you people don't take this as a personal attack against you. It's cool to be able to look at your character from some sort of third person perspective to see your gear, your weapon, and even in a more tactical sense...to see how you look in foliage, against a certain wall, or how your character will appear (to a degree) when viewed at another angle. 

 

In real life, we have a situational awareness about our bodies that a video can't truly simulate yet. A third person camera lets us compensate for that lack of awareness and feeling that we have. But I think that the raised and drawn back camera of the game currently is a bit too much because it lets us see too much.

 

I AM NOT ARGUING THAT THE THIRD PERSON VIEW IS UNFAIR. IT IS NOT UNFAIR. IT IS PERFECTLY 100% FAIR.

 

But, I do think that in a game like DayZ, which draws lots of mechanics from realism and which strives to be as gritty and authentic as possible at times...you shouldn't be able to have such a superhuman ability to see above walls and fences, around corners, over cars and obstacles, around trees...etc. Third Person View allows you to keep your hitbox and character safe and sound behind cover while you reap all the benefits of what would normally come from some level of exposure and risk. Laying on roofs and crouching behind cover in most games means that you can't see what your character can't really see, leaving you to rely on intuition and audio clues to make up for your lack of sight lines. 

 

The third person camera just gives to much of an advantage to people who aren't mobile. I understand the concept of "tactical situational self-immobilization", but the current camera, I think, takes that a bit too far and gives you too much to work with. A game like DayZ is all about Risk vs. Reward. The Risk of exposing yourself should reap you the Reward of having a view of your surroundings.

 

My personal preferred remedy? An over the shoulder Third Person Camera, akin to games like Dead Space or Fallout or Resident Evil. These cameras allow you to look at yourself in the third person, but don't let you survey the land like a spy satellite. It would still allow people to look at themselves and check their camouflage and their positioning, after all.

 

"But Rags, if you don't like it, then don't play on Softcore servers!"

 

But I DO like the concept of a third person camera, I just think the implementation is...poor.

 

I understand that the Third Person View is sort of a staple with the game, but when you consider no staple-toting office is complete without a staple remover...

^ Well argued, sir.

 

I say why stop there.

 

Just remove FPv on third person view servers and replace iron sights with a simple crosshair.

 

I think you're on to something. Why stop there, indeed. Give us 3rd person servers only, along with crosshairs. While we're at it, allow us to tag enemies as in Far Cry 3/4, so that we can not only see through walls, but we can do it from over 200M away. Better yet, mimimaps! Yeah, that's it, give us minimaps!! But don't mix blood types, that just wouldn't be realistic!!!

 

Seriously, it's  the apocalypse. Civilization has broken down. There is no electricity. But, somehow I effectively have a reconnaissance drone hovering over my head, that follows my every step and relays intel to me in real time? Pretty friggin' epic, eh? 

 

Seriously, if the devs need to dumb down the game to better suit consoles, then so be it. There is no compelling reason to make this compromise for PC.

 

Now, before anyone gets too worked up, with over 1,000,000 copies sold, the opinions of 100 of us are statistically irrelevant ... mine included. Besides, opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one.

 

Let the flames (to which I will not respond) begin!

[treetop82 59]

Great debate.

 

I do believe it should be 1st person for characters on FOOT and 3rd person while in vehicles.

 

I also believe that 3rd person gives an advantage while prone or hiding, that a person can see in almost 300 degrees of viewing angle. Sneaking up behind someone is also impossible if the enemy is using 3rd person. It's not realistic in it's current state.

 

On the same token, I think 1st person offers the best advantage to PvP as it gives me a realistic sense of battle. I am able to aim quicker and be more accurate, fumble through my weapons, etc. while in 1st person.

 

In overall fairness, any player can choose any view they want. So since everyone is afforded the same opportunities to change their views, it's inherently fair.

[therandomredstone 431]

I don't really have a dog in this fight since I mostly just play in 1st person, BUT, I voted leave it alone precisely because this is not an issue upon which the fate of western civilization rests.  It's just not that important to me either way, but I understand there are people who like it, why ruin their fun?

hey! barnabus is that dog from skyrim! #lore

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The devs will not change this. 3pp is hete to stay with all its wallpeeking glory. As others have stated, either play 1pp or wallpeek with the rest of them. Luckily I was able to convert everyone I play with to 1pp. The way a shooter is meant to be played.

[FortheEnts 22]

Hey there DayZ community! I just wanted to see what other people's thoughts and views on 3rd person were. I for one would like to see 3rd person completely removed from the game. Now take in mind I would like to see DayZ become much more difficult in over all terms such as zombies, general survival (weather conditions, sickness etc) so, you see where I'm coming from in my views. I say the harder the better, it's a survival game. Make me feel like I'm fighting for my life and just that, SURVIVAL!

 

3rd person in my opinion is like having an easy mode. Is it likely that it will be removed? No, but I still would love to hear what other people have to say about it and their reasoning. 

[Kirby12352 67]

People prefer different things. Not everyone wants to play the game ultra hardcore. IMO if people want to play first person, they should go on a first person server.

[Atom Quark 437]

[Dagwood 680]

Shit rolls downhill: 3rd person perspective is going nowhere.

[TheWizard14 372]

My personal opinion is that YES, 3rd person can stay ONLY if you are standing up. The developers should implement a mechanism so you can do whatever didle dadly things you want to do with your 3rd person while you are in a full standing position. But as soon as you crouch or you prone, the camera should automatically lock into 1st person and not let you go into 3rd until you go back into a full standing position.

 

This will at least solve some of the ultra whinning between Softcore and hardcore people. Though people will still be able to have a god like eye when standing behind trees and whatnot, it at least gives a little solution.