Third Person View should be Over-the-Shoulder, NOT a bird's eye view.

[xImFriendly 10]

I really dislike the Third Person View. Not because it isn't strictly a first person perspective of the world, but because the 3rd Person View in this game is far too advantageous and immersion breaking. I don't have anything against people who like it, and it's kind of sad that on this website I have to make sure some of you people don't take this as a personal attack against you. It's cool to be able to look at your character from some sort of third person perspective to see your gear, your weapon, and even in a more tactical sense...to see how you look in foliage, against a certain wall, or how your character will appear (to a degree) when viewed at another angle.

In real life, we have a situational awareness about our bodies that a video can't truly simulate yet. A third person camera lets us compensate for that lack of awareness and feeling that we have. But I think that the raised and drawn back camera of the game currently is a bit too much because it lets us see too much.

I AM NOT ARGUING THAT THE THIRD PERSON VIEW IS UNFAIR. IT IS NOT UNFAIR. IT IS PERFECTLY 100% FAIR.

But, I do think that in a game like DayZ, which draws lots of mechanics from realism and which strives to be as gritty and authentic as possible at times...you shouldn't be able to have such a superhuman ability to see above walls and fences, around corners, over cars and obstacles, around trees...etc. Third Person View allows you to keep your hitbox and character safe and sound behind cover while you reap all the benefits of what would normally come from some level of exposure and risk. Laying on roofs and crouching behind cover in most games means that you can't see what your character can't really see, leaving you to rely on intuition and audio clues to make up for your lack of sight lines.

The third person camera just gives to much of an advantage to people who aren't mobile. I understand the concept of "tactical situational self-immobilization", but the current camera, I think, takes that a bit too far and gives you too much to work with. A game like DayZ is all about Risk vs. Reward. The Risk of exposing yourself should reap you the Reward of having a view of your surroundings.

My personal preferred remedy? An over the shoulder Third Person Camera, akin to games like Dead Space or Fallout or Resident Evil. These cameras allow you to look at yourself in the third person, but don't let you survey the land like a spy satellite. It would still allow people to look at themselves and check their camouflage and their positioning, after all.

"But Rags, if you don't like it, then don't play on Softcore servers!"

But I DO like the concept of a third person camera, I just think the implementation is...poor.

I understand that the Third Person View is sort of a staple with the game, but when you consider no staple-toting office is complete without a staple remover...

Not taking sides, but a very well put together argument, good job.

[solodude23 649]

I love first person and the more realistic gameplay it provides, but this topic has been beaten to death. As long as there's an option to choose between 1st and 3rd person servers, I'm happy.  :)

[cartire 55]

Theres nothing realistic about 1st person mode.  

 

Its called peripheral vision, which is realistic.  Its something that can only be achieved utilizing a 3rd person view when using a 2D screen.  FOV can only scale it so far.  

 

With that said, Im all for zombies and people being invisible when you dont have true LOS on them so that 3rd person cant be exploited around corners and walls.  I dont remember what game did this, but it has been done before.  

 

Otherwise, I greatly appreciate 3rd person view as it allows us to utilize a realistic feature we already possess, peripheral vision.  Detrimental to our survival in real life.  You would think people playing a survival game would appreciate that.  

[solodude23 649]

Theres nothing realistic about 1st person mode.

Its called peripheral vision, which is realistic. Its something that can only be achieved utilizing a 3rd person view when using a 2D screen. FOV can only scale it so far.

With that said, Im all for zombies and people being invisible when you dont have true LOS on them so that 3rd person cant be exploited around corners and walls. I dont remember what game did this, but it has been done before.

Otherwise, I greatly appreciate 3rd person view as it allows us to utilize a realistic feature we already possess, peripheral vision. Detrimental to our survival in real life. You would think people playing a survival game would appreciate that.

Dammit I really didn't want to reply, but it's not just about the view itself. The 3rd person perspective brings with it an entirely unrealistic version of gameplay that is based massively on looking over walls and around corners without exposing yourself. Just watch any 3PP video in the gallery and you'll see that engagements are 80% (or more) composed of using the 3rd person perspective to look over walls/bushes/etc. I can't blame em either, because if you don't do it you're at a big disadvantage. I suppose if you're used to 3PP or play it exclusively, you don't realize how much it effects gameplay, especially when it comes to PVP. IMO this is much more unrealistic than the lack of peripheral vision of 1st person, especially considering that there's a freelook key.

I'd rather play a game where if my enemy can see me, I can see him.

Ok now I'm definitely done replying! :D

Edited December 17, 2014 by solodude23

[Etherimp 1323]

Hey there DayZ community! I just wanted to see what other people's thoughts and views on 3rd person were. I for one would like to see 3rd person completely removed from the game. Now take in mind I would like to see DayZ become much more difficult in over all terms such as zombies, general survival (weather conditions, sickness etc) so, you see where I'm coming from in my views. I say the harder the better, it's a survival game. Make me feel like I'm fighting for my life and just that, SURVIVAL!

 

3rd person in my opinion is like having an easy mode. Is it likely that it will be removed? No, but I still would love to hear what other people have to say about it and their reasoning. 

 

Hasn't this topic been beaten to death already?

 

Here's the reality

 

-keyboard warriors on the forums and reddit claim 1st person is all they play, and yet 3rd person servers are packed 24/7 while 1st person servers often struggle to be fully populated despite the fact that there are far less 1st person servers. 

-Streamers and youtubers play 3rd person almost exclusively.

-Stream viewers prefer 3rd person (as 1st person is less entertaining to watch.. for some reason.)

-Driving vehicles (and especially flying helis) would be a complete pain in the ass in 1st person.

-Playing 1st person doesn't make you a "better player" nor is it "easier".. It's just a different set of skills.

[FortheEnts 22]

Hasn't this topic been beaten to death already?

 

Here's the reality

 

-keyboard warriors on the forums and reddit claim 1st person is all they play, and yet 3rd person servers are packed 24/7 while 1st person servers often struggle to be fully populated despite the fact that there are far less 1st person servers. 

-Streamers and youtubers play 3rd person almost exclusively.

-Stream viewers prefer 3rd person (as 1st person is less entertaining to watch.. for some reason.)

-Driving vehicles (and especially flying helis) would be a complete pain in the ass in 1st person.

-Playing 1st person doesn't make you a "better player" nor is it "easier".. It's just a different set of skills.

 

I just recently got back into DayZ. I apologize for beating a dead horse.

[Dagwood 680]

Go check out dslyecxi and the rest of shack tac. Do they play 3pp? Why not?

[cartire 55]

Dammit I really didn't want to reply, but it's not just about the view itself. The 3rd person perspective brings with it an entirely unrealistic version of gameplay that is based massively on looking over walls and around corners without exposing yourself. Just watch any 3PP video in the gallery and you'll see that engagements are 80% (or more) composed of using the 3rd person perspective to look over walls/bushes/etc. I can't blame em either, because if you don't do it you're at a big disadvantage. I suppose if you're used to 3PP or play it exclusively, you don't realize how much it effects gameplay, especially when it comes to PVP. IMO this is much more unrealistic than the lack of peripheral vision of 1st person, especially considering that there's a freelook key.

 

I'd rather play a game where if my enemy can see me, I can see him.

 

I probably wont check back into this thread anymore as to avoid this discussion again.  :D

 

And thusly, why I said I was for them making players and zombies invisible without true LOS.  Which has been done in games before.  Its not an impossible thing to implement.  You can make it so people can look around corners in 3rd person but see no one, just to come around a corner and have someone in their face.  

 

This would solve the biggest complaint people have with 3rd person, while simultaneously allowing you to have better vision of your surroundings like you do in real life.  

[DemonGroover 8836]

(Falls to knees, looks up to the sky with arms stretched out)

Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

[Demoth 366]

And thusly, why I said I was for them making players and zombies invisible without true LOS. Which has been done in games before. Its not an impossible thing to implement. You can make it so people can look around corners in 3rd person but see no one, just to come around a corner and have someone in their face.

This would solve the biggest complaint people have with 3rd person, while simultaneously allowing you to have better vision of your surroundings like you do in real life.

Full Spectrum Warrior for Xbox and PC.

You anything not fully in your LOS was kinda blurry, and enemies invisible until your character's head was actually peaking around a corner.

[gibonez 3633]

Full Spectrum Warrior for Xbox and PC.

You anything not fully in your LOS was kinda blurry, and enemies invisible until your character's head was actually peaking around a corner.

 

Perfect solution that both sides could rally behind.

[Noble Savage 116]

Perfect solution that both sides could rally behind.

with the exception of those who use 3rd person specifically as a wall hack.

 

As mentioned there is a choice, it's great that we can play on 1pp servers if we want, also, from my admittedly limited experience 1pp only players on the whole seem to be a slightly better class of player, so the existence of a choice acts as a kind of idiot filter.

 

Not for one moment suggesting all 3pp players are idiots, far from it, but for sure all idiots are 3pp players.

[umberfive 89]

I wouldn't say that 3pp is easier or for idiots. I mostly play 3pp because of my friends, but I prefer 1pp. This is because the whole aiming and shooting is more precise in 1pp. Fighting an infected in 3pp is a pain in the ass. Every time I shoot long range, I have to change the perspective in 3pp. Every time I have to change my thinking, de to the changing perspective. But I think that people who want to play 3pp, should, and who wants to play 1pp, is free to do so. Therefor we have exclusive 1pp server. No over wall looking and others.

[Karmaterror 982]

Theres a topic on the main page for 3pp lol.

 

 

Perfect solution that both sides could rally behind.

 

If 3pp was redone that way it basically is 1pp.....no need for a hive split anymore, that's one good thing I guess

 

However I feel its breaking 3pp to appease the players that shouldn't be using it in the first place(as they clearly prefer 1pp gameplay). Having things pop in and out of existence is immersion breaking...ok so you could argue 3pp itself is immersion breaking....but why make it even more so just for the guys that shouldn't be playing there if they don't like attributes that go hand in hand with that type of perspective. :)

[AmberHelios 2071]

Merged

[Blankki 7]

Well, if you take away a toy that kid likes and played with for a long time he/she starts to protest. Same thing here, it's kinda too late to change the 3rd person, let alone remove it. If it wasn't a feature in the game to begin with, people wouldn't have much to say to it. Sad thing but what can ya do.

 

Most people just want things easy, and the competitiveness just drives some people to gain upperhand in anyway (thus gamehackers exist, in addition to some people just enjoy ruining other peoples game) Getting bit sidetracked here, yes everyone has the same feature so it's an even playingfield. Just saying that a game that would have wallhack as a feature doesn't make it particularly fun feature. And yes 3rd person cam can be easily compared to wallhack, after all seeing people behind walls and stuff is what wh does..

 

It would make the 3rd person kinda okay if the game would make people invisible that you can't see when you're behind walls and such, but dunno if it's possible with the engine and would that raise more problems with server sync and such.

 

Seeing DayZ 3rd person cam videos or streams the gameplay is just all about using the camera to see people behind fences and turning the camera behind corners (unless the encounter happens on a field with no vision blocking things around).

 

It just doesn't fit with the nature of the game, isn't it supposed to be atleast somewhat realistic approach to a zombie apocalypse, and being able to magically know exactly where a hostile entity is behind walls doesn't belong in it. That's just my take on this.

 

Or maybe i'm mistaken and that is what the developers have had in mind for the game. Still doesn't mean people can't criticise it.''

 

(edit: Oh and yes this is alpha and things can change, sorry if I seemed hostile somehow)

Edited December 17, 2014 by Blankki

[gibonez 3633]

 

 

Another perfect example of why the status quo should be fixed.

[Freshmen 28]

How would it be, if 3rd person makes you hear less?

[scriptfactory 620]

Another perfect example of why the status quo should be fixed.

 

Who goes prone inside of a building surrounded by windows? The dude inside the house was going to die anyway. It's like those amateurs that run inside tents @ NWA because their potatoes make it look like the tent windows are opaque...

[gibonez 3633]

Who goes prone inside of a building surrounded by windows? The dude inside the house was going to die anyway. It's like those amateurs that run inside tents @ NWA because their potatoes make it look like the tent windows are opaque...

 

I suppose that is true but if third person view peeking was not a factor in the video then the guy inside would have had an advantage had the outside person walked through the front door.

 

 

Flatout not rendering people you cannot see in tpv would have fixed this problem in the video.

[xhiril 43]

"But Rags, if you don't like it, then don't play on Softcore servers!"

 

 

So the studio gives you an option to play your way and you want to comment on a way others play which you 100% have control over encountering?

 

I am lost here.

[goldtoaster 30]

Another perfect example of why the status quo should be fixed.

Dude inside could've easily heard him go around... Should be fixed... What? 3rd person isn't broken. It's never been broken. If you don't like how "unfair" it is then play on a 1st person server. People saying 3rd person was just tacked on... lol. DayZ was born on ArmA 2. ArmA has always had 1st and 3rd person. Early OFP had 1st and 3rd person. It's always going to be an option in the game. Get over it. I'm getting real tired of these 1P hardcore elitists who think the entire game should be 1P only and anyone who plays 3P is a scrub.

 

What difference does it make if I can peek around corners or see people over fences? They can see me too half the time. It's not game breaking. Oh and I definitely pray they never add over the shoulder perspective. Whoever thinks that's a better looking view is fucking mental.

Edited January 5, 2015 by DarkBullet

[gibonez 3633]

Dude inside could've easily heard him go around... Should be fixed... What? 3rd person isn't broken. It's never been broken. If you don't like how "unfair" it is then play on a 1st person server. People saying 3rd person was just tacked on... lol. DayZ was born on ArmA 2. ArmA has always had 1st and 3rd person. Early OFP had 1st and 3rd person. It's always going to be an option in the game. Get over it. I'm getting real tired of these 1P hardcore elitists who think the entire game should be 1P only and anyone who plays 3P is a scrub.

What difference does it make if I can peek around corners or see people over fences? They can see me too half the time. It's not game breaking. Oh and I definitely pray they never add over the shoulder perspective. Whoever thinks that's a better looking view is fucking mental.

And none of that justifies one person having extra visual information over another person with zero risk.

Simply not rendering what you can't see fixes that and makes the games PvP fair and balanced

[-Gews- 7443]

What difference does it make if I can peek around corners or see people over fences?

A fair amount

[zeotrope 76]

Unfortunately 3rd person is part of the game. I wish it wasn't but for some reason Bohemia thought I was a good option for the Arma series, the Mod and now the SA. 
 

1st person servers are an option but it's sad how unpopular they are considering how great the gameplay is in this mode. Oh well.