jamiereid_wow@hotmail.co.uk

Has Anyone Else lost Faith in Dayz?

213 posts in this topic

Lost faith here.. but not because of the current state of SA, but rather by the lies that BI / Rocket have been lying to us early MOD supporters.

 

They said that the mod would not be affected by the release of early access SA but that was an outright lie. Razor and crew sat on 1.8.1 for almost 6 months while BI was raking in the cash from EA sales. During that time, the Mod lost lost a ton of momentum because BI did not approve the patch. Plus as of recent, we lost the public hive and it seems like BI has made ZERO attempt at giving the mod a public hive instance back. They let it dissolve, not even giving it the a single mention to it. SHAME ON THEM!!! 

 

Now I usually would NOT make a stink about this, but Rocket specifically told us NOT to buy SA if we didn't want to play an early access game that was riddled with bugs. Fine, I'll keep playing the mod, but to neglect the game that got to where you are today, what's the point in that? The mod is NOT taking away from SA sales, they shouldn't be worried about that. But for some reason the Mod turned into the red headed step child of BI as soon as SA hit steam?? 

 

Just to be clear I am hopeful that SA will be an amazing game and I can't wait to play it once it reaches that state, but for now I'd simply rather invest my time playing a game that I know satisfies my needs. Please give us back the public hive, stop neglecting some of your biggest supporters and stop ignoring the fact that BI lied to the community that helped shape the game so many people love..

 

Go make a great game but please give us something to play in the meantime, that is all that I ask.

Edited by m0tzilla
thelonewarrior gave beans to this

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Lost faith here.. but not because of the current state of SA, but rather by the lies that BI / Rocket have been lying to us early MOD supporters.

 

They said that the mod would not be affected by the release of early access SA but that was an outright lie. Razor and crew sat on 1.8.1 for almost 6 months while BI was raking in the cash from EA sales. During that time, the Mod lost lost a ton of momentum because BI did not approve the patch. Plus as of recent, we lost the public hive and it seems like BI has made ZERO attempt at giving the mod a public hive instance back. They let it dissolve, not even giving it the a single mention to it. SHAME ON THEM!!! 

 

Now I usually would NOT make a stink about this, but Rocket specifically told us NOT to buy SA if we didn't want to play an early access game that was riddled with bugs. Fine, I'll keep playing the mod, but to neglect the game that got to where you are today, what's the point in that? The mod is NOT taking away from SA sales, they shouldn't be worried about that. But for some reason the Mod turned into the red headed step child of BI as soon as SA hit steam?? 

 

Just to be clear I am hopeful that SA will be an amazing game and I can't wait to play it once it reaches that state, but for now I'd simply rather invest my time playing a game that I know satisfies my needs. Please give us back the public hive, stop neglecting some of your biggest supporters and stop ignoring the fact that BI lied to the community that helped shape the game so many people love..

 

Go make a great game but please give us something to play in the meantime, that is all that I ask.

What exactly are they taking away from a free mod?  BiS has nothing to do with the mod.

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What exactly are they taking away from a free mod?  BiS has nothing to do with the mod.

 

Actually they do.. BI were the maintainers of the public hive. When the HFB servers went out of business (~2 months ago) they made no attempt at relocating the hive to another host so all that info was lost. There still isn't a public hive as ALL servers are private hive now (that sucks)... Plus they still have to approve the patches. Something that takes them apparently 6 months to do sometimes.. 

Edited by m0tzilla

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Actually they do.. BI were the maintainers of the public hive. When the HFB servers went out of business (~2 months ago) they made no attempt at relocating the hive to another host so all that info was lost. There still isn't a public hive as ALL servers are private hive now (that sucks)... Plus they still have to approve the patches. Something that takes them apparently 6 months to do sometimes.. 

Yeah I thought they basically said "We'll hand over the Mod to the community" way back. If that still hasn't happened, it should. Although maybe thats why we have so many DayZ spinoff mods available. Isn't the source available?

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Screw this game, ima go play Stomping Lands!

 

Too soon. That game had so much potential. Those kind of devs (I'm looking at you, too, Wollay) give Early Access a bad name.

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Yeah I thought they basically said "We'll hand over the Mod to the community" way back. If that still hasn't happened, it should. Although maybe thats why we have so many DayZ spinoff mods available. Isn't the source available?

That is exactly why.  They handed over the mod to the community and look what happened.  Over run by bastardized versions of DayZ called Epoch/Overpoch.  1000's vehicles and self blood bag ftw, right?

RAM-bo4250, aintnevernot and epeenoire gave beans to this

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Yeah I thought they basically said "We'll hand over the Mod to the community" way back. If that still hasn't happened, it should. Although maybe thats why we have so many DayZ spinoff mods available. Isn't the source available?

 

well yes, the code is now maintained by the community, but who's going to dump a bunch of money for a beefy sql server to host the public hive? BI maintained the SQL instance for the mod since the beginning, and it was only until recently that it went away. They should have addressed the fact that the public hive was going to be abandoned instead of simply turning a blind eye to the whole thing. It was a real slap in the face for all the hardcore mod supporters that are waiting to play Standalone Beta! They could have easily moved the public hive to a BI maintained host. 

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That is exactly why.  They handed over the mod to the community and look what happened.  Over run by bastardized versions of DayZ called Epoch/Overpoch.  1000's vehicles and self blood bag ftw, right?

 

I am not sure why this is a bad thing. Why shouldn't people be allowed to play the game that they want to?

I felt the hardcore mod DayZero was true to vanilla but kinda' failed because no one wanted to play it. To be honest, I tried it and it was only fun for my first few deaths.

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ok i'll play...

 

as a long time fan of the mod and seeing how SA is going, i think its a safe bet to say this game will never hit its full retail release candidate.

 

at some point it'll get turned over to the modding community just as the mod did and that will be that..

 

the window for SA is gone tbh. 

 

i dont regret paying my 30$ for the SA as a way of paying back for all my time in Dayz mod. but i dont think i'll ever reinstall SA. there are simply better choices out already and PLENTY more around the corner.

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That is exactly why.  They handed over the mod to the community and look what happened.  Over run by bastardized versions of DayZ called Epoch/Overpoch.  1000's vehicles and self blood bag ftw, right?

 

hey look, I dislike those mods just as much as the next (hardcore dayz mod supporter) guy. But if you think the same thing isn't going to happen when they release the mod tools for SA then you're going to have a bad time... 

 

They are going to come out, and they are going to suck just like the do now.. but who am I to judge... If there are people that enjoy it, great. enjoy it! 

 

But.... lets not forget the public vanilla hive mod community which was still very much alive and well. I say "was" because it's totally dead now that BI totally gave those supporters the bird when they didn't relocate the public hive a few month back.

 

and that's what really grinds my gears.

Edited by m0tzilla
epeenoire and BC_Hawke gave beans to this

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hey look, I dislike those mods just as much as the next (hardcore dayz mod supporter) guy. But if you think the same thing isn't going to happen when they release the mod tools for SA then you're going to have a bad time... 

 

They are going to come out, and they are going to suck just like the do now.. but who am I to judge... If there are people that enjoy it, great. enjoy it! 

 

But.... lets not forget the public vanilla hive mod community which was still very much alive and well. BI totally gave all those supporters the bird when they didn't relocate the public hive a few month back and that's what really grinds my gears.

Weren't all those owned and run by gamespy who shut the doors down.  Not BiS.

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Yeah I thought they basically said "We'll hand over the Mod to the community" way back. If that still hasn't happened, it should. Although maybe thats why we have so many DayZ spinoff mods available. Isn't the source available?

The community is developing the mod, but they still have to get approval from BI to push updates on the official DayZ mod (meaning the regular mod, not the spinioffs like Epoch etc.).  The problem is, the mod devs got shut out by Dean Hall and BI and couldn't update the mod for over 6 months.  The 1.8.1 patch (arguably the best update to the mod since it's inception because of the vast PvE improvements) was ready to be released sometime around November or December 2013.  They submitted it to Dean/BI for approval, and got no response for several months despite many attempts at communicating with them.  Sometime in April they finally opened a line of communication with Hicks and got the ball rolling again.  1.8.1 was approved and released in either late May or early June (I forget).  The pace has picked up since then, which is good, but like m0tzilla said BI dropped the ball on moving the mod public hive database to a new host when HFB shut down.  The loss of the public hive was a devastating blow to fans of the mod, as most of the players that preferred the true vanilla version of the game played on the public hive.  Dean Hall abandoned the mod the moment SA released by ignoring the requests for approval on updates, thus going back on his promise that "Development and updates of the mod will continue in parallel with the development of the game, so anyone who is playing the mod now will be able to continue to do so".  

 

I, like m0tzilla, have lost faith in SA not simply because of the pace of development, but more so because Dean/BI went back on their promise of letting the mod continue to be developed/maintained.  It's hard to remain optimistic about the future of the game when they keep missing projected goals and going back on what they've said in devblogs.  I have a very hard time believing the game will be feature complete in the next 3 months, but I sincerely hope I'm proven wrong.

thelonewarrior, CoachMcGuirk, vinyljunkie and 1 other gave beans to this

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 It might be a lofty goal, but as long as I have something to say about it - you will all be kept updated as to what is going on.

I hope it will be more than few lines on twitter per week!!

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Not to be too inflammatory and no offense to OP - I hate posts like this. I realize there's a LOT of information and misinformation out there, but if you follow the devblogs, visit Reddit once in a while, or play after ever updated build that gets applied on Wednesday it's easy to see the general trend of what's being worked on and how the game is progressing. It's an early access alpha, which is a VERY new concept, the types of things people are seeing now (bugs, features that are being added/tweaked, core architecture that's being reworked, content that's still being worked on) are things that people normally wouldn't see, so you would normally not no the pace nor order in which changes are made as a game is approaching a beta or even release build.

 

Saying that you've lost faith at this point is only possible if you're not actively engaged with the project and community to have a good handle on what's going on... and to be fair that's a little difficult to do, and the second you show weakness and ask a question you risk getting attacked by those who will heckle about who to Google or use the search function.

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That is exactly why.  They handed over the mod to the community and look what happened.  Over run by bastardized versions of DayZ called Epoch/Overpoch.  1000's vehicles and self blood bag ftw, right?

Er, no. The dayz derivative mods were never approved, or authorized, and further, they are totally unrelated to the Official Community Mod. I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I'm fairly sure the first of the derivative mods actually came out before the official mod was handed off to the community development group, although I COULD be wrong.

The external mods were a result of someone reverse engineering Dean Hall's Mother Hive system, and re-writing it from scratch, then modifying the DayZ Client files to create a variation of the mod (dayzland.eu taviana).

Players tend to mix several topics:

 

1. Derivative Mods - These are all the variations of the original Mod by Dean Hall, they can use any version of DayZ, Origins for example used the last version of the mod that Dean Hall updated, and then never updated to any of the versions made by the community development mod.

 

2. Public Hive - This traditionally refers only to the "official hive" where all character data is the same regardless of server logged into. HOWEVER, LOTS of the derivative mods and even server hosting companies offered either/or "public hives" or "shared central hives", where all servers of the same mod on the same host would have common player data. 

3. Private Hives - these are servers where player data is local to ONLY that server. It was ONLY on this level of hosting that you see the lowest common denominator garbage like 1000's of vehicles and load out malls.

 

hey look, I dislike those mods just as much as the next (hardcore dayz mod supporter) guy. But if you think the same thing isn't going to happen when they release the mod tools for SA then you're going to have a bad time... 

 

They are going to come out, and they are going to suck just like the do now.. but who am I to judge... If there are people that enjoy it, great. enjoy it! 

 

But.... lets not forget the public vanilla hive mod community which was still very much alive and well. I say "was" because it's totally dead now that BI totally gave those supporters the bird when they didn't relocate the public hive a few month back.

 

and that's what really grinds my gears.

 

This is such a flawed mindset "hardcore DayZ mod supporter"... All you are doing is limiting your own playing experience by being snobby like that. Now that the DayZ Mod License is public, it's clear that the derivative mods are totally allowed within A2.

Your fears for modding in SA are totally unfounded, there is almost NO chance of BI or DayZ SA team opening up access to the hive or even server software... so what you will likely end up approved mods that alter the client files only, with possibly a webpage interface to alter SOME server settings... IF even that.

IF we end up in a situation like we did with the mod, where someone reverse engineers the hive system I think you'll see BI pursue it legally if there is ANY attempt to use DayZ SA Content on it.

 

The community is developing the mod, but they still have to get approval from BI to push updates on the official DayZ mod (meaning the regular mod, not the spinioffs like Epoch etc.).  The problem is, the mod devs got shut out by Dean Hall and BI and couldn't update the mod for over 6 months.  The 1.8.1 patch (arguably the best update to the mod since it's inception because of the vast PvE improvements) was ready to be released sometime around November or December 2013.  They submitted it to Dean/BI for approval, and got no response for several months despite many attempts at communicating with them.  Sometime in April they finally opened a line of communication with Hicks and got the ball rolling again.  1.8.1 was approved and released in either late May or early June (I forget).  The pace has picked up since then, which is good, but like m0tzilla said BI dropped the ball on moving the mod public hive database to a new host when HFB shut down.  The loss of the public hive was a devastating blow to fans of the mod, as most of the players that preferred the true vanilla version of the game played on the public hive.  Dean Hall abandoned the mod the moment SA released by ignoring the requests for approval on updates, thus going back on his promise that "Development and updates of the mod will continue in parallel with the development of the game, so anyone who is playing the mod now will be able to continue to do so".  

 

I, like m0tzilla, have lost faith in SA not simply because of the pace of development, but more so because Dean/BI went back on their promise of letting the mod continue to be developed/maintained.  It's hard to remain optimistic about the future of the game when they keep missing projected goals and going back on what they've said in devblogs.  I have a very hard time believing the game will be feature complete in the next 3 months, but I sincerely hope I'm proven wrong.

I think saying that the community developers got "shut out" by Dean/BI is both hyperbolic and inaccurate at best. When I was contributing to the mod we experienced a similar delay, and a public "raking over the coals" of Dean Hall for it, and he was neither happy about it, or AWARE of the update.

Sending ONE email to Dean Hall or Hicks ONCE and then waiting for a reply isn't exactly the best strategy. I have no idea if they changed that since, but it was FOR SURE the methodology being applied at the time.

"Handing over" the official mod is a MUCH more slippery slope than anyone here is outlining as well.

DayZ is a wholly owned property of BI/Dean Hall, so they are legally responsible to ensure that nothing included in the mod updates presents them with unwanted legal exposure.

As far as hosting the public hive, that's something I'm SURE an ISP would be willing to do for free in return for being promoted as the "official" server host for the mod... but again you are then talking about something that BI Lawyers will need to get involved in.

IMO Dean/BI allowing modification of DayZ files in A2 at all is awesome... having kept the public hive up for so long has been ENORMOUSLY generous.

I for one, prefer their focus being on SA.

In regards to SA's development I'd say you're looking at what is an obvious progression of development upon a pretty predictable timeline... 

The ONLY (imo) major failing was/is the failure to properly communicate the development timeline... and it's been a repeating problem. At least Hicks has laid it out above... 

I'm only disappointed that they are essentially writing off 2013 for having been a year that happened.... They announced SA development and dropping the idea of "Super Mod" in Sep of 2012 for god's sake.... by april of 2013 I was sending emails advocating a more aggressive development approach. I had hoped that was already happening but this whole assertion that we're only 11 months into development pretty much clarifies that they were mainly busy counting money in 2013 lol.

All fun poking aside, I'm still fairly confident it's going to be a great franchise/game eventually.

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I have a very hard time believing the game will be feature complete in the next 3 months, but I sincerely hope I'm proven wrong.

 

Are they actually still sticking to that timeline? If base building is finished in the next 3 months I would be VERY surprised. I would rather them delay the beta for another year than get a rushed, shitty version of base building that makes this game look like Epoch.

Yuck.

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I think saying that the community developers got "shut out" by Dean/BI is both hyperbolic and inaccurate at best. When I was contributing to the mod we experienced a similar delay, and a public "raking over the coals" of Dean Hall for it, and he was neither happy about it, or AWARE of the update.

Sending ONE email to Dean Hall or Hicks ONCE and then waiting for a reply isn't exactly the best strategy. I have no idea if they changed that since, but it was FOR SURE the methodology being applied at the time.

Unless you're calling the mod devs out as liars, they stated that they made several attempts to contact Dean and other people at BI regarding approval of the 1.8.1 update.  According to what I've gathered from this forum my comments are neither hyperbolic nor inaccurate.

 

"Handing over" the official mod is a MUCH more slippery slope than anyone here is outlining as well.

DayZ is a wholly owned property of BI/Dean Hall, so they are legally responsible to ensure that nothing included in the mod updates presents them with unwanted legal exposure.

Yes, this is true.  I can appreciate the intricacies involved with this, but again, it goes back to the fact that Dean Hall stated that mod development would continue in parallel.  I'm sure he knew the implications of that and should keep his word.

 

As far as hosting the public hive, that's something I'm SURE an ISP would be willing to do for free in return for being promoted as the "official" server host for the mod... but again you are then talking about something that BI Lawyers will need to get involved in.

IMO Dean/BI allowing modification of DayZ files in A2 at all is awesome... having kept the public hive up for so long has been ENORMOUSLY generous.

I for one, prefer their focus being on SA.

Again, they were aware of the implications when announcing that the mod would continue to be developed in parallel.  I appreciate what they have done to live up to that, but am frustrated at the areas in which they've dropped the ball.  I also think that they should focus on SA, but at the same time give the mod devs the tools and the ability to continue development without major setbacks like a 6 month delay in patch approval our the permanent loss of the public hive.

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Are they actually still sticking to that timeline? If base building is finished in the next 3 months I would be VERY surprised. I would rather them delay the beta for another year than get a rushed, shitty version of base building that makes this game look like Epoch.

Yuck.

About a month (or two?) ago I posted a comment on Reddit in one of Rocket's posts about gutting the engine asking if there would be a revised roadmap.  He replied that they are still going by the one announced a Rezzed.  I honestly can't remember what thread this was in so I don't even know how to search for it to reference it.

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The community is developing the mod, but they still have to get approval from BI to push updates on the official DayZ mod (meaning the regular mod, not the spinioffs like Epoch etc.).  The problem is, the mod devs got shut out by Dean Hall and BI and couldn't update the mod for over 6 months.  The 1.8.1 patch (arguably the best update to the mod since it's inception because of the vast PvE improvements) was ready to be released sometime around November or December 2013.  They submitted it to Dean/BI for approval, and got no response for several months despite many attempts at communicating with them.  Sometime in April they finally opened a line of communication with Hicks and got the ball rolling again.  1.8.1 was approved and released in either late May or early June (I forget).  The pace has picked up since then, which is good, but like m0tzilla said BI dropped the ball on moving the mod public hive database to a new host when HFB shut down.  The loss of the public hive was a devastating blow to fans of the mod, as most of the players that preferred the true vanilla version of the game played on the public hive.  Dean Hall abandoned the mod the moment SA released by ignoring the requests for approval on updates, thus going back on his promise that "Development and updates of the mod will continue in parallel with the development of the game, so anyone who is playing the mod now will be able to continue to do so".  

 

I, like m0tzilla, have lost faith in SA not simply because of the pace of development, but more so because Dean/BI went back on their promise of letting the mod continue to be developed/maintained.  It's hard to remain optimistic about the future of the game when they keep missing projected goals and going back on what they've said in devblogs.  I have a very hard time believing the game will be feature complete in the next 3 months, but I sincerely hope I'm proven wrong.

 

reading this is really making me consider never playing this again. they are spitting in the face of the exact kind of work that allowed DayZ to flourish at all. do you have some sources i can read up on, if possible? it's not that i don't believe you, but anything i learn that righteously pisses me off and changes my opinion on something i try to get all the facts of.

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Loved the Mod, had a blast with it, did not regret spending the money on Arma 2

The standalone? I was very happy to support it, but yeah i'm losing faith and patience...

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That is exactly why.  They handed over the mod to the community and look what happened.  Over run by bastardized versions of DayZ called Epoch/Overpoch.  1000's vehicles and self blood bag ftw, right?

and without those the dayz mod would have been dead long ago and you would have no dayz to play at all.

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reading this is really making me consider never playing this again. they are spitting in the face of the exact kind of work that allowed DayZ to flourish at all. do you have some sources i can read up on, if possible? it's not that i don't believe you, but anything i learn that righteously pisses me off and changes my opinion on something i try to get all the facts of.

It's hard to pinpoint any one particular moment to link you to, but here's a link to a post that R4Z0R49 made at the beginning of may regarding finally opening the lines of communication with Hicks at BI to get 1.8.1 approved which had been ready to go since (I forget the exact date) but somewhere around Nov/Dec of 2013.   

 

Regarding the public hive database, after it went down I posed a question as to who controlled the database or had access to it and this was R4Z0R49's response.

 

Just to be clear, there are certainly ways in which BI has been helping keep the mod going since R4Z0R49 was able to get things moving through Hicks, but I am still upset about the ways in which they dropped the ball (ie waiting 6 months to approve 1.8.1 and letting the public hive die).

sab0t gave beans to this

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