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jamiereid_wow@hotmail.co.uk

Has Anyone Else lost Faith in Dayz?

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I started playing about a week before .45 and was having a ball. I liked .45 .46 and .47 and was clocking up a lot of hours but since .48 my game time has dropped to nearly zero. I havent lost faith, just got sick of all the hacks/exploits  flaky servers and such. Hoping .49 resolves some of the probs and the player wipe happens sooner rather than later so i can get back into what i believe will still become an awesome game.

 

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Seems like the developers are creating a lot of technical debt for themselves. They keep adding in new features, that add in additional bugs. However instead of focusing on finishing those features, they continue to implement new things, thus creating more technical debt. Doing so is poor development practice and will come back to bite them. They need to focus on finishing vertical slices of the game, meaning they take a sliver, such as Zombies, and make them 100% working, then they take say . . . tents, and make them 100% working, instead of this 20% here, 40% there approach. 

 

But frankly, all of that pales in comparison to how big a problem hacking is going to be now that people can instakill a whole server and fly around.

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Seems like the developers are creating a lot of technical debt for themselves. They keep adding in new features, that add in additional bugs. However instead of focusing on finishing those features, they continue to implement new things, thus creating more technical debt. Doing so is poor development practice and will come back to bite them. They need to focus on finishing vertical slices of the game, meaning they take a sliver, such as Zombies, and make them 100% working, then they take say . . . tents, and make them 100% working, instead of this 20% here, 40% there approach. 

 

But frankly, all of that pales in comparison to how big a problem hacking is going to be now that people can instakill a whole server and fly around.

You absolutely cannot do what you just said.  Why fix something just to add something that will break it again?  That is not how Alpha's work.  Christ, get some education on the Alpha process before spewing nonsense.

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 They need to focus on finishing vertical slices of the game, meaning they take a sliver, such as Zombies, and make them 100% working, then they take say . . . tents, and make them 100% working, instead of this 20% here, 40% there approach.

 

You're dumbing it down to the things you actually see in the game, which does not work. From a development point of view, there is no Zombies. You have to look at the underlying mechanics. Navigation, collision, animations, sensors, combat mechanics, eventually models and textures. Then you have a finished Zombie. Needless to say that all of this pieces aren't relevant to zombies only, they affect many other things as well.

 

So no, they can't simply finish "The Zombies 100%"  and then move on to something else.

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Seems like the developers are creating a lot of technical debt for themselves. They keep adding in new features, that add in additional bugs. However instead of focusing on finishing those features, they continue to implement new things, thus creating more technical debt. Doing so is poor development practice and will come back to bite them. They need to focus on finishing vertical slices of the game, meaning they take a sliver, such as Zombies, and make them 100% working, then they take say . . . tents, and make them 100% working, instead of this 20% here, 40% there approach. 

 

But frankly, all of that pales in comparison to how big a problem hacking is going to be now that people can instakill a whole server and fly around.

No, no, no, and no. Thats not how it works at all. Component systems are being developed. You can look at my previous posts in this thread with quotes from Eugen on how these systems affect things like Zombies. You don't just "fix zombies," they rely on several systems that are still in development.

 

Almost no one feature in DayZ, or most games for that matter, are mutually exclusive. They almost always rely on several components that affect other features.

 

Game development is from the ground up, not top down, that would be asinine.

Edited by WhiteZero

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And at which point does it cross the line from "unfinished" to "outright scam" ?

1 year? 5?

I've a feeling some of you will still be here in 5 years claiming "alpha"

 

Maybe if u stopped exaggerating ur point u would see that ur point isnt really relevant. In plain text....saying or implying that Dayz is a scam is exaggerating, there is no need for that cos dayz isnt a scam.

What we have is just some players on the forum that need to take a break from dayz and play something else...like a finished game.

Edited by svisketyggeren

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I bought alpha on day 1 expecting to take poitn in bug testing what would become the refined interation of the official MOD. Optimized and bug-fixed and released as a polished standalone release.

 

Every change, design decision, etc that takes us further away from the mod's games play makes me hate the SA that much more.

 

  • I didnt want a new map or more cities. infact i hate the new cities.
  • I didnt want nerf guns that have huge dispersion cones. A2's weapons were 100% acceptable and could have been directly ported As-Is with no issue. infact that would have been preferable.
  • I Hate, spit on, and revile this attachment system that effect the mechanical behavior of weapons like an arcade FPS.
 

they should have simply refined the MOD, as it was, optimized it and stripped out all the stuff not needed for dayZ; Brought in an in depth medical system and added complex base construction similar to Epoch or Rust which involves crafting things into subsequently bigger components. I was expecting the gameplay that kept me going for 40hr benders almost every weekend thru the life of the mod (and still on the mod now)

If I remember correctly the weapon nerfing started at the end of the mod development, I really don't understand or agree with those changes, one of the great things about the original mod was the refreshing hardcore feel of the game, that was a big part of what attracted me and the other guys I played with in the first place, part of that came from the quite realistic weaponry, it makes no sence to go against this, but then dayz is headed to consoles... Expect anything.

Edited by Mutagen_7B4

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If I remember correctly the weapon nerfing started at the of the mod development, I really don't understand or agree with those changes, one of the great things about the original mod was the refreshing hardcore feel of the game, that was a big part of what attracted me and the other guys I played with in the first place, part of that came from the quite realistic weaponry, it makes no sence to go against this, but then dayz is headed to consoles... Expect anything.

pretty much my feelings. keep the weapons and weapons stats from A2. they made it better for being that way. i swear tho if they integrate console the way Warthunder did (console and PC players on same hive/servers) i'll flip ish.

i seriously don't want a bunch more whiney pre-pubesecent self-entitled brats then we already have.

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I got on last night for some reason. Realized my character had a weapon and was healthy. Started running around the woods, snailed my way up a few hills and said to myself "why the fuck am I play this game?" 

 

It has become so unbelievably easy and boring, the whole thrill of running around for HOURS hoping to meet one or two players has diminished. 

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pretty much my feelings. keep the weapons and weapons stats from A2. they made it better for being that way. i swear tho if they integrate console the way Warthunder did (console and PC players on same hive/servers) i'll flip ish.

i seriously don't want a bunch more whiney pre-pubesecent self-entitled brats then we already have.

Sorry for the typo, I meant at the end of mod dev.

 

Making promises, deals or whatever with Sony when the current Pc build is no where near finished is ridiculous and probably impossible to deliver anyway and I also believe that the original Dayz concept is absolutely not suited to the console market, anyone who has spent a lot of time gaming on Pc AND consoles will understand this.

 

I agree with you totally about mod vs SA, its disappointing but even so, I paid for SA to show support and appreciation for the project and also to kind of say "thank you" for the hundreds of hours of fantastic game play I had from the mod (even though I did scream and complain about it often) its been an "unforgettable" experience but it honestly feels like its over now, the mod seems to be ruined and SA needs so much work... I really hope they can deliver I honestly do.

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i am pretty much in the same boat as mutagen_7b4.

 

i bought the SA as soon as it came out even though i knew it might never be the game i loved so much in the mod.

i paid a tribute to BI and the peoples involved in dayZ with buying the SA and i still think it is ok (i could afford it at the time so no regrets here).

 

when i saw the vast amount of new military loot spawns after i first logged in i felt my concerns were right. this is not the direction i wanted it to go.

 

FOR ME the SA has nothing to do with dayZ at all (from a gaming experince perspective). and i do not see it coming out as dayZ at the end of whatever they call the way to develop this.

it does not trigger the emotions, excitement, anger or anything as dayZ did.

 

last week at work during a smoking break we talked about gaming and a guy from another company heard me describing chernarus as a harsh environment (i talked about dying by doors, stairs, rocks, trees, tents or whatever in the good old times).

the feeling i got when he said he just played SA never dayZ was: sadness and a bit of compassion.

 

he talked about the new patch and stuff so i did play last week for the 1st time since weeks/months and lost interest again after about an hour.

SA just does not feel like dayZ and i think it never will for me.

 

so yes, i lost faith in a way, but i did not have much for the SA to begin with.

 

i will check the SA from time to time just to see if ever something good comes out of the zombies dev team.

i will never forget dayZ as part of the best gaming experiences i had in a long life as a gamer.

 

i do not regret buying SA and i am quite happy that i supported BI which makes great games and even better mods possible.

i started to check for other mods/missions/games in the ArmA universe and have a lot of fun there (originally i bought ArmA 2 to play Project Reality).

 

if million of gamers enjoy the shit out of SA i am quite happy for them and for BI for their succes but it is just not my cup of coffee anymore.

 

time goes on and the gaming world changes and i will live with it.

 

i just hope the dayZ hive problems get fixed so i can go to chernarus from time to time.

Edited by justadude

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I'll be honest, I do not have time to go through 9 pages of posts, so I'll respond to the first and last posts with this statement:

 

You are not playing DayZ, you are playing development builds. Early development builds. 

DayZ is 11 months into principle development, on what should be a 3 year standard development cycle. I can't force you to be a fan of DayZ, but I can call this out:

Defining or judging what DayZ is by a build so early in its development is much a kin to judging a painting within the first few brush strokes. Hell, even Bob Ross's paintings didn't look great for the first few minutes (until you realized what it was he was making).

I can promise you none of your favorite AAA games played, or even resembled the final product that early in their cycles. (Okay, maybe some of the larger titles that push small incremental updates out every 12 months - but we all know those are special snowflakes)

 

Take a break, and come back in beta or even the full release. The Early Access period of development will have many peaks and low, low valleys. This is the nature of software development. Yes, it is stressful as heck - for all of us, but you get to be part of shaping the DayZ experience.

For me, its worth it - for some of you, it might not be. No one can fault you for that. :)

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DayZ is 11 months into principle development, on what should be a 3 year standard development cycle.

Maybe make this clear at a point where most people are confronted with the early access model. Especially that the game is <33% finished as opposed to >50% (thats what most people here seem to think).

If there is some kind of "progress bar" somewhere - its not visible enough because I have missed it for months.

Edited by Evil Minion

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after the post by hicks i feel the need to say that i am talking about he whole experience thing and not just the game and its development state itself.

i never ever fellt that bugs, missing content or anything would destroy the game itself as long as the majority of the player base had a certain kind of culture/same interests.

 

it is the mix from the community and the game mechanics which produces results for me.

 

the community/player base has changed so dramatically and the SA has developed to this majority that a gamer like me just does not see where i could fit in to have my kind of fun.

 

i doubt it but i might belong to an absolute minority? i like it as hard as it could be, much more then most people could even imagine.

 

the buggy mod deliverd that at times which i did not experience since the beginning of gaming (i think a lot of younger gamers can not imagine how hard most games used to be in the old times.)

 

and there is the problem, if this is a minority thing and the majority just wants to shoot and make dick size comparisons (which is generally ok. i mean CS1.6 started the complete esports thing due to that human behaviour and i still love CS1.6) then i see not how my experience can change very much wihtout a drastic change in the gameplay/mechanics.

 

 

before i start to write long philosophical essays about gaming and how it changed over time and where dayZ fits into this (in a language i have trouble to communicate in) i will make it short:

 

hype kills creativity.

 

always.

Edited by justadude

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I'll be honest, I do not have time to go through 9 pages of posts, so I'll respond to the first and last posts with this statement:

 

You are not playing DayZ, you are playing development builds. Early development builds. 

DayZ is 11 months into principle development, on what should be a 3 year standard development cycle. I can't force you to be a fan of DayZ, but I can call this out:

Defining or judging what DayZ is by a build so early in its development is much a kin to judging a painting within the first few brush strokes. Hell, even Bob Ross's paintings didn't look great for the first few minutes (until you realized what it was he was making).

I can promise you none of your favorite AAA games played, or even resembled the final product that early in their cycles. (Okay, maybe some of the larger titles that push small incremental updates out every 12 months - but we all know those are special snowflakes)

 

Take a break, and come back in beta or even the full release. The Early Access period of development will have many peaks and low, low valleys. This is the nature of software development. Yes, it is stressful as heck - for all of us, but you get to be part of shaping the DayZ experience.

For me, its worth it - for some of you, it might not be. No one can fault you for that. :)

 

Thanks for the reply, Hicks. I'm interested that you say we're 11 months into a 3 year development cycle. Is that 3 years total for Full Release? I'm wondering if that got pushed up at some point? The BI Company Brochure said "DayZ is expected to reach beta at the end of 2014," that was as of May 2014.

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I'm always careful with what I say - 3 year standard development cycle, meaning in standard terms this would be a 3 year, closed development cycle.
Early Access changes a lot of that, I don't need to tell you. We are still aiming for end of 2014 to hit our beta phase entry. You can be certain the weekly status reports will keep everyone updated on that.

We're trying to effectively do a 3 year standard cycle in 2 to 2.5 years. It might be a lofty goal, but as long as I have something to say about it - you will all be kept updated as to what is going on.

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I'm always careful with what I say - 3 year standard development cycle, meaning in standard terms this would be a 3 year, closed development cycle.

Early Access changes a lot of that, I don't need to tell you. We are still aiming for end of 2014 to hit our beta phase entry. You can be certain the weekly status reports will keep everyone updated on that.

We're trying to effectively do a 3 year standard cycle in 2 to 2.5 years. It might be a lofty goal, but as long as I have something to say about it - you will all be kept updated as to what is going on.

This might not be the time or place to ask this, but I feel compelled: Is the plan to enter Beta before all the new engine modules are in place? I recall Dean saying on a Sacriel stream that the new renderer wouldn't be available until next year.

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Interesting to see more devs and BI staff (plus the usually silent mods & admins) poking through the woodwork of late.

Wondering if this is a marketing or PR push, or a response to the also of late, negative and pessimistic views being circulated particularly here.

 

I'll add that I pretty much bought the game to play with a friend who persuaded me, who I actually introduced to the mod.  I had low-expectations for DayZ before purchase, cautious and slow to buy something that was both free, and involved bad memories of hacking and such back before the mega-banwaves.  I've enjoyed my time so far, and now ironically enough he's lost interest for the most part (he's an apathetic misanthrope for the most part ;) )while i still log on every now and then to hit the hills.

 

I'll remain optimistic, try to keep at it every now and then, but will definitely give it a solid crack once it hits open-release.  I'm sitting at 192 hours played atm.  good 30buck.

keep at it devs.  Make the game you want to make and don't buckle to pressure or popular opinion.  I paid for your game, not the embodiment of one thousand screaming sirens I could have easily lapped up from many other mass produced or churned-out-per-year games.  Good luck and good effort. :thumbsup:

Edited by q.S Sachiel

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Interesting to see more devs and BI staff (plus the usually silent mods & admins) poking through the woodwork of late.

Wondering if this is a marketing or PR push, or a response to the also of late, negative and pessimistic views being circulated particularly here.

 

They aren't posting as much on Reddit. /r/dayz is a cesspool. This forum is very mild in comparison AND they can moderate the content. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

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They aren't posting as much on Reddit. /r/dayz is a cesspool. This forum is very mild in comparison AND they can moderate the content. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

Seems to depend on the Staff member. Dean and Eugen still seem to mostly post on Reddit

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Seems to depend on the Staff member. Dean and Eugen still seem to mostly post on Reddit

 

Eugen, for sure. He is really informative and mostly professional.

But have you been reading Rocket's posts recently (http://www.reddit.com/user/rocket2guns)? His posts seem to be much different than they were in the past and way less common.

 

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Eugen, for sure. He is really informative and mostly professional.

But have you been reading Rocket's posts recently (http://www.reddit.com/user/rocket2guns)? His posts seem to be much different than they were in the past and way less common.

 

Yeah, he seems to have gotten sick of all the ridiculous posts people make in /r/dayz sometimes. But I still see him commenting on Development more there than anywhere

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