Why DayZ is no survival game

[qww 287]

I don't like the idea of 'skills', either - shooting, crafting, medical ability, etc - it's too "gamey" and would rely on arbitrary stats.

 

But I do think characters should be developable in terms of their physical condition. If you look after yourself, keep yourself fit and healthy, illness and injury free, then you should see an increase in physical fitness. You can run longer, run faster, you are physically stronger, can hit harder, carry more weight, resist disease better, recover from minor injuries faster. These things should take a long time to develop, I think, but there should be noticeable difference in performance between your character who's been successfully surviving for weeks, and the crappy new spawn you have to use if you die.

 

That'd give much more value to your life as opposed to mere gear. After the inclusion of persistent loot storage, gear will potentially be easily replaceable, especially for organised groups. The time- and effort-earned physical prowess of the character would not be easily or instantly replaceable.

with the current system we recover from injury only when healthy as far as i can understand.

i think the sprint speed will be adjusted as game develops, and i would agree that being healthy should increase stamina and resistance to illness. we will have to see how the sickness works in game when its added better.

it shouldnt be as fast a process as it is to get healthy, i imagine that it will be slowed down during development.

in my view persistent storage is the worst thing that could possibly (will) be added in standalone, and it goes against the whole point of the game. thats another topic anyway.

i agree with what you said, all makes sense .

[Wayze 549]

That's my point, your post is referring to the game now. Where yes you are right it's not much about survival at the moment for obvious reasons. Which also means youre not looking at the roadmap youre looking at what we have now or this whole thread would be irrelevant in your mind.

No, my post is referring to the road map and game design decision made now, in the past and in the future.

 

 

increase skills over lifetime is a horrible idea, like any other artificial mechanic that could be introduced.

Why?

Edited June 23, 2014 by Wayze

[pilgrim* 3513]

How about this ?

 

If a man survives 40 hours he gets a beard

If a woman survives 40 hours she gets long hair

 

xx  think about it

[Wayze 549]

How about this ?

 

If a man survives 40 hours he gets a beard

If a woman survives 40 hours she gets long hair

 

xx  think about it

How about people who hate beards? How about people who don't give a f*ck about beards? Do you really think anyone would give up all his gear just to safe his beard?

 

"Please! Don't f*cking shot me man, it took me 40 hours to grow that freakin beard man! Take EVERYTHING! I AM GOING TO BE YOUR SLAVE! JUST DON'T KILL ME!"

 

Yep, totally authentic...

Edited June 23, 2014 by Wayze

[Mystic Bagel 128]

Do you really think anyone would give up all his gear just to safe his beard?

 

 

 

 I would venture a bet a member of the Taliban or an Amish fellow would..............

Edited June 23, 2014 by Mystic Bagel

[frosti 2165]

Beard>gear.

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..

"Please! Don't f*cking shot me man, it took me 40 hours to grow that freakin beard man! Take EVERYTHING! I AM GOING TO BE YOUR SLAVE! JUST DON'T KILL ME!"

..//.....

 

hey - you got it !

 

everyone who saw you with a beard would know you were an old timer who had lived more than 40 hours - lots of players would hate you just for that...

 

 

Edited June 23, 2014 by pilgrim

[Cartoonrboy 94]

Survival is king. But I always asked myself the same question. How can value be added to a character? For me I found a solution in Epoch. Building a base over time adds value to the character spurning you on to survive.

 

But most servers forgot what DayZ, in my opinion is about; survival, but became militarized. So I configured my server to provide a harsh environment, bad food spawns, rare loot, limited 3rd person, no traders etc. And added my own mods to create a crafting system for trash items. It is not a popular server and never has been because of the progression of DayZ Epoch into ArmaIIOA with zombies. The value of loot was diminished.

 

I hate FPS's, but I love survival and for me, epoch; my way draws me in to spend £30/month to sit on my own, but with my own home, car, and things that my character managed to scrounge/craft over time knowing that I managed to survive and also, have something to show for it. That for me, creates the value in playing DayZ(mod).

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Survival is king. But I always asked myself the same question. How can value be added to a character? For me I found a solution in Epoch. Building a base over time adds value to the character spurning you on to survive.

 

But most servers forgot what DayZ, in my opinion is about; survival, but became militarized. So I configured my server to provide a harsh environment, bad food spawns, rare loot, limited 3rd person, no traders etc. And added my own mods to create a crafting system for trash items. It is not a popular server and never has been because of the progression of DayZ Epoch into ArmaIIOA with zombies. The value of loot was diminished.

 

I hate FPS's, but I love survival and for me, epoch; my way draws me in to spend £30/month to sit on my own, but with my own home, car, and things that my character managed to scrounge/craft over time knowing that I managed to survive and also, have something to show for it. That for me, creates the value in playing DayZ(mod).

Epoch is not a survival game and should not even be associated with DayZ.  It's an abomination that shit all over what DayZ is about.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I seriously do not understand the hate for skills and skill progression. It is both realistic, and would add value to your character.

 

It would also give us an actual reason (beyond enjoyment) to read books in-game. Not like "Fallout skill books", but a maintenance manual for a vehicle, or a generator, would provide a boost to skills, allowing us to repair/maintain those pieces of equipment faster/more effectively. Or a medical manual (with practice) would allows you to suture wounds closed, or perform minor surgery (iffy on that one.)

 

Everyone could start with 1st Aid, and another skill (not combat-related). This would both give you value ("Don't kill me, I'm a mechanic!"), as well as giving you some sort of backstory (If you are into that)

 

Possible skills:

-Medical

-1st Aid: bandages faster (Everyone starts with this)

-Bone setting: sets broken bones faster, lessened chance for infection

-suturing: you can know suture wounds shut, faster/more effective with higher skill

-recognize disease (obvious, recognize a disease and the best form of treatment)

-surgery (remove bullets, minor surgery)

Mechanical:

-Vehicular repair/maintenance (obvious, with maybe different "minors" in different types of vehicles? Sedans, trucks, diesel, tractors, helicopters, etc. Only someone with that skill can repair/maintain a vehicle of that class. Discuss?)

-Generator repair

-Carpenter

-Electrician

-Plumbing (not just "greywater", but drinking water as well)

Weapons:

-Firearm: Now, does anybody here play World of Tanks? IMO, that game has the best skill system I have ever seen. Essentially, each tank has certain characteristics (rate of fire, turn speed, top speed, turret turn speed, horsepower, etc). However, when you start out, you don't play with those characteristics, you start at 50% due to crew inexperience. AS your crew gets more experienced, you gradually reach the "stereotypical performance" of the tank (ex: you load guns faster, up to the max rate of fire, you get more accurate, to the max accuracy of the gun and the shell, etc) and once you reach 100% crew training, you don't get any better. 

 

Firearms in Day Z could act like this, with each player getting better and better with a specific firearm as they use it more, up to the gun's in-game statistical performance (raw accuracy, sway, effective range, etc). This way, players who stick with a firearm will be rewarded for surviving, but not to the extent that they will necessarily overshadow anyone else. Someone could be really good with an AKM, for example, but just because they are really good with it doesn't mean they will be outranging an SVD in the hands of a beginning player (of course, the experienced AKM user would be more accurate with his weapon than the beginner with the SVD, but only up to the AKM's base accuracy.)

 

-Reloading: reloading spent ammuntion (small pistol, magnum, small rifle, large rifle. Reloaders, chime in on this)

-weapon maintenance.

 

Obviously, I like the idea of skills. It is both realistic and flavorful.

[Cartoonrboy 94]

Epoch is not a survival game and should not even be associated with DayZ.  It's an abomination that shit all over what DayZ is about.

Absolutely. I totally agree with you. I hate almost all the servers that host Epoch. The playerbase is interested solely in PvP, gun collecting, car pimping and shopping. I cannot stand the typical Epoch player. I created my own server to mimick DayZ as much as possible and make it DayZ with the ability to build if you can gather the right tools, and I have not made it easy.

 

In almost all zombie films/shows there's an attempt to settle (28 Days/Weeks Later, Dawn/Day of the dead, I am Omega/Legend, The Battery, The Walking Dead). Epoch provides the tools to explore that possibility and this adds value to the players input over time. Perhaps nothing as extensive as Epoch, but the ability to board-up doorways/windows like Resident Evil 4 would be interesting. Wouldn't some people want get off the road and perhaps try to live some sort of normal life?

Edited November 12, 2014 by Cartoonrboy

[slippery gypsy 107]

did read after first page ... answer is dynamic beards 

[harteman 155]

Beards, razors, long hair and clippers would be kinda cool.  I'd be less inclined to shoot someone who values their life.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

I seriously do not understand the hate for skills and skill progression. It is both realistic, and would add value to your character.

Its not hate. I love RPG, agree with everything the OP said and I like your ideas. BUT that is all true for SP, I don't do typical MMOs. Its just too much time investment and I don't want the game to be geared with lvl99 in fishing in mind...

Edited November 12, 2014 by Mor

[rodolfoxiii 71]

Funny to read "this is alpha" in the first page back in february and after all that time the game is still not about survival lmao. The SimZ or ChatZ is more appropriate. Hahaha.

[bonesnap 75]

if someone survived for 500 hours, hasn't he deserved a really good boost? I would give such a person the ability to shoot like a robot.

And this is why you are not a project lead for a successful game. Pls no.. Then it's even harder to catch hackers who aimbot, because if an admin screenwatched them they could have the excuse of "oh, I have this perk. I'm not hacking". At that point it's even more difficult to distinguish cheaters/hackers, etc.

 

I like DayZ for the fact that it doesn't have perks/skillpoints/etc. It's about skill and smarts, not who played or survived longer.

 

As others have suggested, the best way to award surviving for a long duration would be age, beards, etc. Cosmetics. Doesn't break the game or add any imbalance.

 

edit: The last thing I want is for the game to become Eve: Online. A PoS grindfest where skill means jack because some twat with a 2 billion dollar ship can faceroll you by pressing 1-2 keys on their keyboard and you have zero chance of counterplay. Seriously, no to skill progression.

Edited November 5, 2014 by bonesnap

[Cartoonrboy 94]

The longer you survive - the better at survival you become. You don't need perks; your knowledge and skill is the perk.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Absolutely. I totally agree with you. I hate almost all the servers that host Epoch. The playerbase is interested solely in PvP, gun collecting, car pimping and shopping. I cannot stand the typical Epoch player.

Well i totally disagree with you, most players in all mods are more than willing to help, i am still to die from another player. I have had more interaction with players in 10 hours in mods, than 400+ hours in standalone.

Inclusion of growing vegetables in 0.50 has just made standalone that much less of a survival game. But seeing as these are "negative comments" toward dayz sa, attack begins in 3....2....1

[Accolyte 1727]

Inclusion of growing vegetables in 0.50 has just made standalone that much less of a survival game.

 

That doesn't even make sense. Care to elaborate on that?

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Including more ways of gaining food makes your survival easier. Understand

[Accolyte 1727]

Including more ways of gaining food makes your survival easier. Understand

 

:facepalm:  can't argue with that..

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

That doesn't even make sense. Care to elaborate on that?

In a sense he is right, if you think about the classic post-apocalyptic experience, its about exploration, scavenging... not plowing fields ;) Being able to make a fish trap from a bottle to keep yourself alive is different from being comfortable enough to stay in one location and tend your veggies for four month...

I feel that farming belong to a setting in which society has been established and people are re-building, which to me comes after my adventure is over... ETA: if you ever played fallout, this would be the diffrence between the setting in the first and the second one.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Mor

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Epoch is not a survival game and should not even be associated with DayZ.  It's an abomination that shit all over what DayZ is about.

 

Lets shit all over a mod.. of a mod.. in a thread completely unrelated to Epoch. Did you not read the guys posted? He heavily modified it to scrape up the shit.

[StayAlive (DayZ) 169]

As i have put as a point in one of my posts, having several spawn locations inland would solve some of the problems.

Still, even if the game does everything in catering to the surviving theme, there will still be the player himself who is

the main motivator to how well this theme is executed and interpreted. This is a line that goes into a lot of different game genres,

with some exceptions, like the VERY poorly streamlined games, where you can't make much personal

decisions within the game.

[Magodark22 31]

Thing is, today in dayz it is too easy to survive you dont really have an adventure, just enter in any small town and you already have tons of canned food that can make your character hold for like 50h of gameplay.
I think that maybe if we had a hard time trying to survive we would give more value to our lives, canned foods should be rare, just saying....

we cant have that now of course because we dont have many ways too obtain food (ALPHA)