What if we removed the crosshair?

[hoik 415]

My preference is no crosshairs - Playing without them makes Arma or DayZ quite a different experience. And untill you have had a good crack at playing without them i don't think you can appreciate this. The thing is many players will not even consider it (obviously not the ones posting here :) ) and so a little force feeding will have to take place - and not without a little kicking and screaming...

IMO the main reason to play with crosshairs is for ease of use (figuring out laders and doors does not take much effort, but is klunky in gerneral and needs improvement :) ) - and because that is what you are used to. Does that sound like dayZ?.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Hoik

[NoyZ (DayZ) 66]

Personally, I'd like to see them gone. It would separate the desirability of some guns. Better in game sites=more desirable. Bizon and AK-74 could kiss my ass. :)

See this is why I love different perspectives... for me, I'd be WAY more likely to carry a non-scoped rifle with CH removed... nothing worse that when you go into scope view out of habit when a line of zombies is under 100m from you... with CH they drop like flies... again totally unrealistic IMO...

IKR? CCO FTW!!

Edited January 22, 2013 by NoyZ

[guisho 258]

Server side option would be great, but if it helps to avoid some ESP cheats then remove it.

[Joe Freedom 34]

Guess you need a different melee combat system then. Humans do have six senses, even if this information is not widely spread. The sixth sense is the sense that tells you where your body parts are, even if you are not looking at them. As additional information, you can lose that sense, for instance through Korsakov's Syndrom.

Well, anyway, I played just a bit on no-crosshair servers and whenever I sneak up on a Zed and try to hatchet it and miss, I think by myself, wtf? Image, someone standing 1 meter behind you and still misses with a hatchet. Also judging distances is a problem.

So, I suggest adding a different system for melee weapons. Invisible crosshair with a huge (2 quarters of the width of your screen maybe) target area, since humans usual can influence a swing even while it is in progress and also a little marking whenever you would hit something. Could be a little red dot as a HUD icon that turns green if you were about to hit something, but since you once stated that you don't like HUD icons, you may just let his thumb move a little bit whenever he's in range, effectively showing the player an information that in real life he would develop a sense for it. Another advantage of this thumb movement, player who don't notice it consciously will notice it subconsciously and actually develop a feeling for the weapon without knowing why.

Anyway, still if you don't agree with this suggestion and the hatchet still stays a crappy gun rather than a real melee weapon, I prefer no crosshair at all times. And I do love my hatchet, even if it is a crappy gun.

[wolfstriked 143]

I just remembered something....Rocket once said that he is not making this game to be easy.Don't cater to anyone,remove the crosshairs,be done with it and move on.;)

[Jars (DayZ) 63]

No crosshair is far more desirable , and reduces the effectiveness of sniper rifles at shorter ranges and close combat , giving the assault rifles a bit more of an advantage .

"Shooting from the hip" can still be performed fairly effectively at very close range with no crosshair , but it will take out the certainty factor .

[Col. Kurtz (DayZ) 91]

You wont remove the crosshair, I call no balls..... lol In all seriousness I think it would be great if you removed it. Just an opinion.

[PracticalTactical 164]

Crosshair is for big dumb dumbs and noobs. Get rid of daht sheeeeyt

[calthehunter 61]

I've always personally found servers with no nametags or crosshairs to be immensely more enjoyable. There's a far greater level of challenge, for both yourself and anyone else involved, which makes any PVP'ing just that much more exhilarating. Unfortunately, this isn't really something you can force a removal of due to there being too many people that wouldn't be accepting of a change like that. And while a server with NO 3rd person/crosshairs/nametags is my ideal server when I'm wanting a real challenge, the removal of 3rd person just couldn't happen (I understand the thread's about crosshairs, it's just that someone suggested 3rd person, but as long as we want the DayZ Youtube machine to keep churning out content: It must stay)

Edited January 22, 2013 by calthehunter

[sheepdawg 278]

Do it. Make this game a bitch to play. You wanted it for people with balls, that was a great design idea. Do it!

[pmjkerr 76]

Surprised to see so much support for the removal side of the arguement.

That being said, I'm on the same side - Remove them completely.

[Rastamaus 323]

Surprised to see so much support for the removal side of the arguement.

That being said, I'm on the same side - Remove them completely.

me too, it's reassuring and has restored my faith in this community.

gotta say it's overwhelmingly in favour of making the game more challenging

[Flawless1 16]

Do it. Make this game a bitch to play. You wanted it for people with balls, that was a great design idea. Do it!

And I believe the majority of players would want it removed too. I keep beating this drum, but the people who truely love this game are the ones who embrace difficulty and realism. We have a bigger picture for this game than most. My buddies and I are currently playing on a lesser populated server to avoid the kiddie rush and we are having a blast! There have been unexpected OH SH**! moments even though we plan our every move/mission almost down to a T. The Walking Dead type moments have shown through. We have gotten angry with each other because of individuals in our group who have taken unnecessary risks and compromised our camp/stash...We have had really low lows followed up by really high highs and vice versa. If you keep the same arcadeish tools that are present in all the other hand me down shooters out there then that leaves US, the majority of DayZ enthusiasts, with so much more to be desired. We have been waiting far too long for a game like this to be released. Don't let compromises geared towards extra revenue potential and all-around appeal get in the way of the greatness that this title can and should acheive. Please understand this Rocket, and keep designing the game around these values.

Also... Check out the poll/topic that I started about the consequences of death. The overwhelming majority of people agree that the game should be difficult enough for you to feel punished upon death without the need of arcadey mechanics to unrealistically create anger, remorse, sadness, grief, or desperation.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Flawless1

[TIC 1050]

Rocket, I'd recommend that you'd keep the crosshairs optional so it'd balance out for the veterans and the new players for ArMA 2(DayZ) in particular since the controls can be difficult and sluggish so having crosshairs as something that can be controlled systematically over the server would be totally up to the administrator's choice.

So I have to say; Optional.

[-Gews- 7443]

The biggest argument for removing the crosshair is sniper rifles. Say you take a DMR. With crosshair, it's good for very close combat and long range with the scope. Without a crosshair it means it is going to be ineffective at closer ranges with its high-powered scope.

It would make players think twice about taking a sniper rifle.

[Zachstar 59]

The main reason is that all the functionality required to power it is entirely removed, it becomes more complex for ESP/hacks to locate the direction and orientation of your weapon. It would still be possible just somewhat more difficult. Removing it would also slightly reduce UI clutter, and save a few cycles on your CPU (but extremely marginal)

This is just my opinion but those benefits are what push me to the "Remove it" side.

Yes it will make things harder for newer players. However, I think the frustration of running into a hacker will cause them to leave DayZ much faster. Just please allow any weapon that can be so made to be sight adjusted. It is simply worth it to remove another tool for hackers.

If things are getting too hard from the change add a single player "Range" map in Single Player that has a simple bolt action and a pistol and a bunch of stuff explaining the basics of estimating range and lead.

[GOD™ 2795]

I say remove it, for the sake of realism.

remember too much realism can be bad.

Edited January 22, 2013 by GOD™

[enforcer1975 1111]

Remove it, no more cqb sniping. I already cqbed a lot of wannabe snipers with no backup on expert servers with just an assault rifle ( also "shot from the hip" ) and was called noob in the process, but i survived and the other didn't so i don't care.

In fact put expert as the only difficulty setting.

remember too much realism can be bad.

Not if you tweak at the right places...

Edited January 22, 2013 by Enforcer

[terrvik 2409]

Dslyecxi argues well for crosshairs on his personal blog, could be worth a read. He makes some good points.

http://blog.dslyecxi...-guys-play-with

EDIT: If you are lazy, he basically says "All in all, I find the notion that crosshairs are “unrealistic” to be pedantic and misinformed. Until ArmA or other games can accurately represent what is involved with using firearms in reality, abstractions will be needed to get the end result to be correct. This is just one of many such abstractions that exist currently. "

Personally I am all for removing them. Not for realism or anything like that, but just for the fact that it would make the firefights more awkward and possibly simulate (at least my own) incompetence with firearms.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[gesundheitk 420]

As long as iron sights are being removed, I'm down for it.

Although as some had explained, ArmA's system is very complex and realistic where the point of bullets come out of the gun, and if you are walking without wanting to look down the scope, you will definitely notice it is much harder to aim without a reference point.

Debates, debates...

Edited January 22, 2013 by Gesundheit

[DIEMAC0 5]

remove the crosshares

remove the UI that shows bullets left, but let me pull the mag and check visually amount remaining. and also keep empty mags and load/consolidate ammo.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

remove the crosshares

remove the UI that shows bullets left, but let me pull the mag and check visually amount remaining. and also keep empty mags and load/consolidate ammo.

would be an awesome idea! like in Metro

tbh i pretty much appreciated the idea in far cry 3, using little first person animations for every single action you do.

[Private Evans 1303]

Other cons: It would confirm the PvP priorities of this game and further discourage those players who have no interest in being great shots and just want to be able to play dayz and survive. Actually, it doesn't matter what I say, I'm sure it's all about the realism. I'm not going to post any more on this other than to say it makes my heart sink and saddens me far more than it should. I feel for the many players who play this game who do not fit the shooter/PvP type. There are so many players in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and up who love the fact we are free to roam, hunt, explore, defend ourselves with a gun without being great shots, and still have a great time while avoiding servers full of CoD kids. We would never play shooter games and things like maps and compasses and crosshairs make it possible for us to succeed and defend ourselves against the PvPers. In fact why have maps and compasses? Let's up the realism. Few of us would know where to find toilet tissue let alone compasses and maps in an apocaypse. Drop it all. That's my view.

Smasht, thanks you point it very well. :thumbsup:

I think it is casual gameplay and hacking which in fact supports this stupid shoot on sight pvp cod gameplay..most of the time I am killed by hackers, snipers, hacking snipers and cod kiddy noobs which kill me with their AK using the crosshair stalking me in 3rd person first.... having less military loot..less ammo..having to deal with maybe an infection (shivers etc) jamming guns, no batteries for your night vision googles, more dangerous zombies and NO Crossahair will stop a lot of people from starting a firefight for no reason....also a lot more shots will miss without crosshairs so that you have a chance to escape, take cover or fight back...

cheers

[joe_mcentire 2074]

I think it is casual gameplay and hacking which in fact supports this stupid shoot on sight pvp cod gameplay..most of the time I am killed by hackers, snipers, hacking snipers and cod kiddy noobs which kill me with their AK using the crosshair stalking me in 3rd person first.... having less military loot..less ammo..having to deal with maybe an infection (shivers etc) jamming guns, no batteries for your night vision googles, more dangerous zombies and NO Crossahair will stop a lot of people from starting a firefight for no reason....also a lot more shots will miss without crosshairs so that you have a chance to escape, take cover or fight back...

cheers

AMEN!

this post was not intended to offend any believers of a different faith.

[-Gews- 7443]

As long as iron sights are being removed, I'm down for it.

Wait what?