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rickyriot

So is this normal? One punch death in melee.

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I'm trying my best to like DayZ in it's current form. Many things are going for it but also many against and I've now wasted 10+ hours of gameplay due to game breaking bugs or unexpected results. To be fair the unexpected results could be filed under "stuff I should have known", but to say it's not endearing the game to me is an understatement.

This time I got punched out by a zombie. I had full health and full blood, no cuts and was using an axe to defend myself. The zombie aggro'd then ran towards me, I raised my axe, swung and got a hit but at the same time the zombie hit me too. Ok, that seems fair enough, but the result of the hit from the zombie put me unconscious while my axe to their head did absolutely nothing to impair it's movement or attacks.

Now don't get me wrong, I want a hard game, I wish for zombies to be rock hard*, my question is whether what I experienced is genuinely how people expect the game to work? If it is? C'est la vie, I'll just deal with it, but in the scenario I just described does it seem right?

 

* I also want melee to be a solid and enjoyable part of the game, perhaps even key, but I've been asking for that for years and it's never arrived and I doubt it ever will.

Edited by rickyriot

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The zombies knockdown chance seams very random. As if its a 5% chance they will knock you down no matter what. Sometimes they can hit you 20 times without sucess other times they are lucky and knock you down on first hit. 

My friend and I played on a unmodded server and he got knocked down in two hits. Despite wearing a helmet and having full health/blood. Since he was in another town he died from that and we never managed to retrive his loot. 

I'm all for more threat from the Zombies, but things like that feels so unconsistant. As if you are playing a lottery. It would be far better if the knockdown chance was based on your blood and health level. 

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Clothing states seem to add some form of protection level.  Just recently I had most of my gear ruined, jacket, pants, backpack and I noticed that infected hits would cause me to bleed almost instantly and drop my health down even more but I have never been one hit by an infected yet.  Was this on an official server or some modded server?

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5 hours ago, rickyriot said:

The zombie aggro'd then ran towards me, I raised my axe, swung and got a hit but at the same time the zombie hit me too.

This is the problem right here.  Do not let their first hit land undefended.  You are much better raising your weapon and holding "S," or whatever your movement backwards key assignment is, so you can block the attack rather than risk soaking it all up with your chin.

Think about it, If some crazy guy decides to bum-rush you for lookin' at him wrong, are you gonna risk taking the full force of a running haymaker in hopes of your counterattack being successful, or are you gonna dodge that shit and try to take him down after he misses his first swing?

I always try to dodge the first swing, and then start my attack.  Same thing when you are already fighting one, and another aggros on you; disengage the first one so the second one can't get a full force cheap shot on your backside.
Granted, I don't seem to get knocked out from behind as easily, but if that first blow lands, it reduces the number of total hits you can take by a fair margin.  It's an unnecessary and unacceptable risk to let that first running aggro hit land.

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The process that has worked for me given the wild hit boxes on zombie strikes is the following- 

1) Aggro zombie

2) When he gets within about 10 feet, start to pull back while pressing RMB. This will initiate a "blocking" stance.

3) Zombie will strike 2 times in relatively quick succession- the defensive posture will deflect these strikes MOST if not all of the time if you do it right.

4) Immediately after the last strike stop backing off, hold down RMB and mash LMB to strike. I use a knife because the rapidity of the strikes is such that it "stuns" the zombie in a way that makes its further strikes ineffective. 

5) Striking in quick succession does cause some drift of your character... if you're not careful you'll segue through the zombie or it will get around you to a point where it can strike you. This takes a little getting used to- but if you stay on it and control your movements to account for it this should still work for you. 

 

This obviously doesn't work very well when you have multiple striking you at once... unless they're staggered a bit in their approach. A few slices with a knife knocks down zombies pretty readily- 

Knives work pretty well- hatchet is probably my favourite for its hit potential and speed... but takes up inventory space and can't be mounted on your back. 

 

Edited by eno

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1 hour ago, Just Caused said:

Zombies are very, very broken right now.

No they aren't

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15 minutes ago, amadieus said:

A couple of weeks ago I got killed by an infected in two hits. No unconscious state, just killed. I reported it on the feedback tracker with a video: https://feedback.bistudio.com/T136931

Your character was sick so yes, you can get two shotted when you are unhealthy even if your "health is in white"

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19 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

Your character was sick so yes, you can get two shotted when you are unhealthy even if your "health is in white"

I have never read anything about this. Do you have a link or so where I can read more on this? Just wondering how this works, as prior to my death I had fought and got hit by many more infected while being sick. Is it progressive? As I was sick already for a lot of days. Nevertheless, if this is the case then I should receive some sort of notification that my sickness is getting worse.

Edited by amadieus
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21 minutes ago, amadieus said:

I have never read anything about this. Do you have a link or so where I can read more on this? Just wondering how this works, as prior to my death I had fought and got hit by many more infected while being sick. Is it progressive? As I was sick already for a lot of days. Nevertheless, if this is the case then I should receive some sort of notification that my sickness is getting worse.

I believe your thirst and hunger levels will go down much faster as you get weaker and eventually will probably start losing blood or even health.  Not sure as the sickness seems to be a hit and miss.

 

Just to update, the straight to death is a little odd, you should have at least been knocked out first maybe but it all depends at what state of sickness you were in... dunno

Edited by Guy Smiley

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41 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

I believe your thirst and hunger levels will go down much faster as you get weaker and eventually will probably start losing blood or even health.  Not sure as the sickness seems to be a hit and miss

My experience with cholera so far is that during 1.0 it would disappear if I would stay healthy and didn't drink any pond water. With the first platform update this seemed to change as it never cured itself, even though I didn't touch any pond water. I also never noticed any downsides besides having to throw up randomly and losing energy and hydration when it happens. I didn't notice an increase in thirst and energy levels going down and never lost any blood or health because of the sickness. Maybe there is more to Cholera and that damage taken increases the longer you have the disease. However, I have my doubts. In my video you could see that the first hit from the infected barely scratched me as the health icon remained full. Then the second hit went directly past all the other health icon phases (yellow, red etc.), right to my death. My suspicion that it is a rare bug remains.

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5 hours ago, Guy Smiley said:

No they aren't

So you're telling me that devs purposely made them not be able to climb stairs, get stuck on doors, run around like brainless fly while jumping over fences back and forth, can easily outrun the player since they have more stamina, that they can pull a 180 on you way quicker than your character, can detect you from miles away, can turn and sometimes player's attacks doesn't register while their's does? Don't think so buddy....

Edited by Just Caused
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9 minutes ago, Just Caused said:

So you're telling me that devs purposely made them not be able to climb stairs, get stuck on doors, run around like brainless fly while jumping over fences back and forth, can easily outrun the player since they have more stamina, that they can pull a 180 on you way quicker than your character, can detect you from miles away, can turn and sometimes player's attacks doesn't register while their's does? Don't think so buddy....

Do you even play the game?

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9 hours ago, amadieus said:

A couple of weeks ago I got killed by an infected in two hits. No unconscious state, just killed. I reported it on the feedback tracker with a video: https://feedback.bistudio.com/T136931

If your clothing was all ruined, you would have very little protection.  That might be the issue, judging by the look of your jacket sleeves.  Getting hit in the back is also a big no-no.

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20 hours ago, rickyriot said:

I had full health and full blood, no cuts and was using an axe to defend myself. The hit from the zombie put me unconscious.

That is (obviously) not intended behaviour. We have received some reports (for example by @amadieus) on infected one-hitting players, but so far we lack exact reproduction steps for the issue. So if you encounter problems like that, please report with all details (and best, a video) to our Feedback Tracker at feedback.dayz.com.

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On 2/25/2019 at 1:32 AM, Guy Smiley said:

Do you even play the game?

Funny you should say that, I just came back from it.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/25/2019 at 8:26 AM, ImpulZ said:

That is (obviously) not intended behaviour. We have received some reports (for example by @amadieus) on infected one-hitting players, but so far we lack exact reproduction steps for the issue. So if you encounter problems like that, please report with all details (and best, a video) to our Feedback Tracker at feedback.dayz.com.

Apologies in taking so long to reply to this. I was unable to capture the one-hit knockout, but the fact that others have reported it is good - it means it's not just me and that it will get worked on at some time.

In terms of behaviour, I'm well aware of just how difficult and complex coding the AI is. Many things have unexpected outcomes. I'm glad you don't think what happened should happen in general although I will fully accept that ultimately you do need RNG within the system and that RNG can sometimes lead to harsh outcomes. Is it possible to one punch someone unconscious? Of course it is. Could it be I was just unlucky in this instance? Extra unlucky considering I had full health.

On 2/24/2019 at 5:23 PM, emuthreat said:

This is the problem right here.  Do not let their first hit land undefended.  You are much better raising your weapon and holding "S," or whatever your movement backwards key assignment is, so you can block the attack rather than risk soaking it all up with your chin.

Think about it, If some crazy guy decides to bum-rush you for lookin' at him wrong, are you gonna risk taking the full force of a running haymaker in hopes of your counterattack being successful, or are you gonna dodge that shit and try to take him down after he misses his first swing?

I take on board your comments, but up until now I've been managing to time my swing (whether weapon or just my fists) as they come at me. They'll get a little knocked back allowing me to engage in melee. I don't mind taking the odd hit, albeit close melee doesn't feel like anything except spamming the hit button and hoping for the best, but in general that one or two hits they get do nothing more than damage my clothing or perhaps cut me. Just wasn't really expecting a full out knock down.

As for your "think about it" comment, in real life if someone bum-rushes you then the odds are far more in your favour if you do take that risk and hit them first rather than dodging. I understand why you'd think otherwise but it doesn't actually get borne out in real situations. That said, I appreciate you were only mentioning it as an analogy, and in the game perhaps you are right.

Edited by rickyriot

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14 hours ago, rickyriot said:

As for your "think about it" comment, in real life if someone bum-rushes you then the odds are far more in your favour if you do take that risk and hit them first rather than dodging. I understand why you'd think otherwise but it doesn't actually get borne out in real situations. That said, I appreciate you were only mentioning it as an analogy, and in the game perhaps you are right.

Lol.  First rule of street fighting: Don't let the other guy hit you.  Second rule of street fighting:  If he is gonna hit you, don't let him hit you in the face.  Third rule: If he is gonna hit you in the face, don't let him land a clean hit.  I think you can see where this is going...

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, haven't been a in a fight in years.  But even back then, I was never ballsy enough to play rock paper scissors with my face.

Blocking is fine too.  I just prefer to dodge in case my janky mouse decides that I'm not pressing RMB at the instant the zombie lands that first hit.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/2/2019 at 2:11 AM, emuthreat said:

Lol.  First rule of street fighting: Don't let the other guy hit you.  Second rule of street fighting:  If he is gonna hit you, don't let him hit you in the face.  Third rule: If he is gonna hit you in the face, don't let him land a clean hit.  I think you can see where this is going...

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, haven't been a in a fight in years.  But even back then, I was never ballsy enough to play rock paper scissors with my face.

Blocking is fine too.  I just prefer to dodge in case my janky mouse decides that I'm not pressing RMB at the instant the zombie lands that first hit.

Are we talking in real life here? If so I could explain both the logic and physics of why you would want to hit an oncoming opponent rather than dodge them.

As for in game? There are probably several successful strategies, and as I say the one I was employing before was fairly successful barring the odd hit. I think we'll both agree that the melee combat is some way off from being fluid and it's only then will we have a true picture of how to interact with the zombies.

Edited by rickyriot

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The knockout chance seems to be random and fairly low, so far it has never happened to me when fighting against one or two zeds, but when being pummeled by 3-4 or more I've been knocked silly fairly quickly. That is fine by me, they should be dangerous in numbers.

I'm guessing those cases of one- or twoshots by lone zombies are cases of extremely bad RNG. It should be possible to prevent by e.g. requiring a certain amount of shock damage to be soaked before the KO chance applies. 

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7 hours ago, Derleth said:

The knockout chance seems to be random and fairly low, so far it has never happened to me when fighting against one or two zeds, but when being pummeled by 3-4 or more I've been knocked silly fairly quickly. That is fine by me, they should be dangerous in numbers.

I'm guessing those cases of one- or twoshots by lone zombies are cases of extremely bad RNG. It should be possible to prevent by e.g. requiring a certain amount of shock damage to be soaked before the KO chance applies. 

There are enough BS ways you can die of in DayZ. If Zombies are all RNG it will be really frustrating for that lone survivor that has lived for days to run into one zombie and boom dead. 

Meanwhile in other scenarios people can get hit by multiple zombies without any issue. It becomes too rng. Thats why I think it should be based on your blood or health instead. 

But i'm all for making zombies harder in other ways. It just needs to be concistant. 

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I think perhaps (?) a zomb can headshot you, similar to a player (?) but their attack is a body strike & doesn't usually hit that high ?  - It has happened to me once in 1.0  (heard zomb running up behind me, I turned and shot) was dead so fast that I even wondered (and asked)  if it was possible to turn round while you were raising a gun and pulling the trigger & to have just enough movement lag to actually shoot yourself  (the server predicts where you "will be" and then updates it's prediction to where you really "are")  - I was running, I turned, I was a foot from the zomb, fired at his body mass and I was instant-dead. .. never did find out HOW that happened.
And previous to 1.O,  I was one-hit killed twice or so over maybe a year.. each time that happened when I was crouched. - So that makes me wonder if a zomb CAN headshot.

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20 hours ago, Derleth said:

The knockout chance seems to be random and fairly low, so far it has never happened to me when fighting against one or two zeds, but when being pummeled by 3-4 or more I've been knocked silly fairly quickly. That is fine by me, they should be dangerous in numbers.

I'm guessing those cases of one- or twoshots by lone zombies are cases of extremely bad RNG. It should be possible to prevent by e.g. requiring a certain amount of shock damage to be soaked before the KO chance applies. 

I coulnd agree more

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Make sure you aren't wearing ruined clothing.  It makes a difference.

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