Making developer's take action

[Poolofdeath1337 8]

So this post isn't here to attack BI it's to inform you as the community how we can start forcing change on games in "preview or early access". This is far to much a case with games anymore company's are slapping early access on saying please expect bugs or it not too work at all. Which is just horseshit flat out were paying the devs half the cost to be glorified bug testers. Now this can be a good thing don't get me wrong as we get our hands on products b4 others but the downside is paying to do a company's work for them with no reward or clear direction of the issues being worked on by the development team. Now that my rant is over we can get my main point forcing change on preview or early access. We tend to run to this forum and complain it's broke it doesn't work which what you paid 35$ to due test there game for bugs. but when creators see this they tend to go into hiding until there internal team has time to focus on an issue they missed . Now that great but when the community has no clear definition of what's being done to fix it there's more of an issue. Now dayZ has been plagued by this since PC launch then knowing there was an incomplete product they went and launch a whole other game right b4 releasing DayZ to the Xbox game preview which proves money talks so as the people paying for there products and working on there testing the developers need to be held accountable for this and the way to due that is take there money away request a refund it's that simple even if you have had the game since launch all you need to due is ask to speak with someone from microsoft explain to them the development team isn't holding true to there values they arnt being open or communicating with there plans to get there product to an acceptable standards. If Microsoft sees a trend or BI or whatever developer is making the game there going to be forced to remove the production till it can be brought up to acceptable standards.

[Demetrius Russyn 6]

Well this is all true. They only have a yr to make a full release. Or Microsoft will do what they did to Ark. Basically say release a game or we are taking your game and rights and making it. I truly love this game and I don't want what happened to Ark to happen to this. Devs who don't care about fans and making a better game then to get almost sued by Microsoft. then to push a game out and do nothing for it to have ppl just not play anymore and could careless about the game. So one way or another they will have to make a game sooner or later. They just need to do a hella better job with their communication. Because I bet if they told you they are working on an update and trying to get it ready they don't have a time but they are working on one and keep you updated you would be cool with that I'm sure. Better then saying jack and hoping you trust them after this has been their mo forever.

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 10/8/2018 at 9:40 PM, Poolofdeath1337 said:

..//..
dayZ has been plagued by this since PC launch then knowing there was an incomplete product they went and launch a whole other game right b4 releasing DayZ to the Xbox game preview which proves money talks so as the people paying for there products and working on there testing the developers need to be held accountable for this and the way to due that is take there money away request a refund it's that simple even if you have had the game since launch all you need to due is ask to speak with someone from microsoft
..//..

Ever heard of Microsoft Millennium or Microsoft 8 or MS 8.1 ??...  are you sure your windows 10 is working "OK" now ??.. OR 'scuse me - I mean are you sure your Xbox is working OK now that Microsoft are on their fourth version of Xbox One due to multi problems and complaints concerning all the previous units they sold (and new complaints and problems about the latest)  -  - BUT if you read the disclaimer you signed when you bought into the Microsoft "package deal",  they DENY any responsibility for ANY EXPECTATION you have, they disclaim ANY FUNCTIONALITY you may have imagined or they may have "suggested"  and DO NOT claim that Xbox can do ANYTHING specific AT ALL.. hardware or software.. if it doesn't work as you expect they MAY at their discretion replace it with another one that also doesn't work as you expect, but it's YOUR problem, NOT THEIRS. Historically it was Microsoft who  INVENTED the "SOFTWARE TOTAL NON-FITNESS FOR USE"  DISCLAIMER..  You DO READ that stuff, right ??

I feel sympathy for consumer rights (NO SHIT!) .. But I have been involved, been interested, argued & worked in development for a LONG time (back since ARPANET) and seen the big companies muscle in over the last quarter century..  Mainly "the masses" simply did NOT stand up to them.. it took them 20+ years and billions of cash to get a stranglehold on the Internet, and they aint QUITE got it yet... WHY do you THINK they are plugging Games Machines instead of PCs?.. Because you are NOT ROOT of your games machine, Microsoft is in charge of it, not you -  you never REALLY own it., you just paid to tie yourself to Microsoft.  you pay for what Microsoft chooses (to max profit) &  only what THEY let you have, and End Of Story.  WHY did you make THAT choice to go along with THAT crap? You should have known better.  JeeeZ
[my answer = because it was an easy, cheap and ill advised choice, made in ignorance - tell me I'm wrong].

Millions of people (literally MILLIONS)  are making the same dumb decision right now  - multiply that by the cost per Xbox/Playstation/Etc  to see why the Games Machine mega-corps are Laughing At You.

Bit if you are waking up a bit and wondering WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON - then I sympathize with you.. but BI is not the place to start..if they stand or fall it wont make a blind bit of difference.. BI are a small (we can almost say TINY) company.. and there are VERY FEW of THOSE small/medium left after Sony and Disney have bought them up and STAMPED them OUT... 

I paid - I don't remember - 30 bucks (?) for this DayZ game maybe 6 years back and that entitles me to FREE PLAY and FREE UPGRADES FOREVER...  and that, friend, is NOT typical..

xxP

 

                         

                                                       Unpack your machine & read the Xbox small print

*

p.s. The GDC
Originally called the Computer Game Developers Conference, the first conference was organized in April 1988 by Chris Crawford in his San Jose, California-area living room.  About twenty-seven designers attended.  In 2008 there were 18,000 attendees.
Today Sony Computer Entertainment, Microsoft and Nintendo deliver KEYNOTES at the GDC conference showcasing upcoming products and technologies.
hmmm ?

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by pilgrim*
~

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

Keep away from Early Access games.

Buy them when they're complete.

Rgds

LoK

[Demetrius Russyn 6]

9 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

Ever heard of Microsoft Millennium or Microsoft 8 or MS 8.1 ??...  are you sure your windows 10 is working "OK" now ??.. OR 'scuse me - I mean are you sure your Xbox is working OK now that Microsoft are on their fourth version of Xbox One due to multi problems and complaints concerning all the previous units they sold (and new complaints and problems about the latest)  -  - BUT if you read the disclaimer you signed when you bought into the Microsoft "package deal",  they DENY any responsibility for ANY EXPECTATION you have, they disclaim ANY FUNCTIONALITY you may have imagined or they may have "suggested"  and DO NOT claim that Xbox can do ANYTHING specific AT ALL.. hardware or software.. if it doesn't work as you expect they MAY at their discretion replace it with another one that also doesn't work as you expect, but it's YOUR problem, NOT THEIRS. Historically it was Microsoft who  INVENTED the "SOFTWARE TOTAL NON-FITNESS FOR USE"  DISCLAIMER..  You DO READ that stuff, right ??

I feel sympathy for consumer rights (NO SHIT!) .. But I have been involved, been interested, argued & worked in development for a LONG time (back since ARPANET) and seen the big companies muscle in over the last quarter century..  Mainly "the masses" simply did NOT stand up to them.. it took them 20+ years and billions of cash to get a stranglehold on the Internet, and they aint QUITE got it yet... WHY do you THINK they are plugging Games Machines instead of PCs.. Because you are NOT ROOT of your games machine, you never REALLY own it..  you pay for what microsoft chooses (for max profit) &  lets you have and End Of Story.  WHY did you make THAT choice to go along with THAt crap? You should have known better.  JeeeZ
[my answer = because it was an easy, cheap and ill advised choice, made in ignorance - tell me I'm wrong].

Millions of people (literally MILLIONS)  are making the same dumb decision right now  - multiply that by the cost per Xbox/Playstation/Etc  to see why the Games Machine mega-corps are Laughing At You.

Bit if you are waking up a bit and wondering WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON - then I sympathize with you.. but NI is not the place to start..if they stand or fall it wont make a blind bit of difference.. BI are a small (we can almost say TINY) company.. and there are VERY FEW of THOSE left after Sony and Disney have STAMPED them OUT... 

I paid - I don't remember - 30 bucks (?) for this DayZ game maybe 6 years back and that entitles me to FREE PLAY and FREE UPGRADES FOREVER...  and that, friend, is NOT typical..

xxP

I can say working for an 18 billion dollar a year company some of this is true and some of it is personal opinion. Every person and every company isn't that way. I have had a lot of stuff wrong that has been replaced or repaired because it doesn't work the way it should. But thinking my I can ride on my xbox and fly around is kind of stupid. So no its not all big companies its also very very stupid consumers. So a lot of these companies have to make these crazy ass guidelines or restrictions its sad but hey ppl though redbull gave them wings.... I think he's just saying if your gonna take $ and say your gonna do something then do it. And just have a little respect for the ppl who funded u and let us know what's going on.

[bent.toe 529]

@Poolofdeath1337I totally agree.

I have no problems paying $20-$40 to be a beta tester on a game i might like or even love.

But what i do mind is the secrecy/non transparency from the devs. Like they found a cure for aging or something. And not releasing weekley patches.

We Still have problems with shooting blanks, reloading, inventory, text on screen, scopes blocked by character, crashes, server list recent/favourites and so on....things that been reported a month ago.

Rome was not built in a day....but i'm sure the people saw progress every week.

[pilgrim* 3514]

9 minutes ago, bent.toe said:

Rome was not built in a day....but i'm sure the people saw progress every week.

Sure - Rome was built in a month.
(rofl)

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Refunds are not given on Steam unless you have very few hours/minutes in game.

I believe the level of transparency you desire is found in the status reports.

Here's something I put together to try to help new players get a grasp on where DayZ is headed and where it came from.

DayZ is a notoriously troubled project and I firmly believe that if you did not read enough before you put down your money, the blame falls squarely on you.

Steam reviews alone would offer a lot of critical viewpoints that would make the more cautious consumer think twice.

Dictionary:

ca·ve·at emp·tor

ˌkavēˌät ˈem(p)ˌtôr/

noun: caveat emptor

the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by ☣BioHaze☣

[TheCreeper (DayZ) 3565]

2 hours ago, OrLoK said:

Hello there

Keep away from Early Access games.

Buy them when they're complete.

Rgds

LoK

The Magical Horse has spoken

[Skruffy 167]

Tbh, the xbox early access games are tiny. DayZ has been in development for 5 years. If you didnt know that prior to buying then shame on you.

Have you ever looked at steam? There is a genre of game called Early Access Hell....

Thousands of EA games never see 1.0. The few that do are the big guys like you've heard of.. conan. Ark. The forest. Sure there are others.

I personally never buy alphas. I believe in supporting the development work but I have always said, well better them but than me.

I didnt buy ark in EA. I got it at 1.0 for a whopping $100. It sucked. But then I never experienced the bugs or issues that others did. I got the polished product.

You do realize there are 13 early access games on xbox right? The list is tiny because they dont wanna end up like steam. Years and years of people saying bring dayZ to console and this is what thanks you give? 

I agree, I dont like early access, it gives the developer to tuck tail and run. But know your publisher...

I'd rather buy an early access, than pay $60 for a game, and pay $40 for a dlc, then hit a wall and have to pay another $40 to break that wall *cough destiny* or rather you'd like to spend $120 flat out on a game that hasnt been developed but is promised "oh were gonna churn out 4 dlc packs for you at a later date, but we havent decided what they will be" *cough cod*.

Bohemia interactive is like the hardcore simulation shooter developer that CD Projekt Red or bethesda is to RPG games.

If bohemia tucked tail, there would be hell. 

Know your developers. Know what is and isnt worth investing in if you plan to buy early access alphas/beta. But hey, buyer beware. What do I know. 

 

Here is what I have to say about making publishers own up to their issues. The only early access games I own are these.

1. DayZ where I can submit bug reports and contribute to the progress of the game.

2. Stranded Deep where I can contribute to the games growth and help a 2 man development team get their dream.

3. Fortnite a game that will never leave because they make billions on microtransactions, for a free to play game.

4. Pubg a game that was fun then totally crapped out at 1.0 launch, because of microtransaction greed.

What do pubg and fortnite have in common? A dying playerbase. Microtransactions. And a washed up battle royale formula that was a fad. 

What do stranded deep and DayZ have in common? A loyal playerbase, small though it may be. Free updates. Free roadmap and community support. Bug tracking and bug creation. But are 4 years old in early access and everyone trips on the devs for not finishing the game.

 

$40 for DayZ, $20 for stranded deep. That is $60, the price of a normal AAA game, but have infinite replay value as long as you can think and make up your own story.

$30 for pubg, $40 for fortnite cuz I got the single player. Then infinite $ at microtransactions.

What's the difference?

When battle royale dies, it's gone. You lost the hundreds of dollars invested in skins and cosmetic items.

When survival games die or never leave early access. Well you have the memories, the feels that you atleast tried to help the game developer, and you have the $200 you saved by not buying microtransactions. Plus, the servers wont go offline. When any MP games servers shut down, that means the devs have given up on that title. DayZ is the first MP EA game I got. If you look at the pc base, 5 years later??? Servers are still up. People are still playing. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Bombarding

[pilgrim* 3514]

4 hours ago, TheCreeper (DayZ) said:

The Magical Horse has spoken

                                                    

                                                                             

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by pilgrim*

[TheYetiBum 790]

Quite simply put if you dont give a product or service your money then said business or product will no longer financially function. That seems to solve the issue.

Don't give your money away on any product without using detailed prior research also known as common sense, then the next step is don't mistake a personal regretful decision with injustice. 

[Skruffy 167]

2 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

                                                    

                                                                             

 

 

 

This is John Wayne at the first thanksgiving... 

"Happy thanksgiving, pilgrim"

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bombarding

[pilgrim* 3514]

7 hours ago, TheYetiBum said:

Don't give your money away on any product without using detailed prior research also known as common sense,

DUDE, It's a PAY TO PLAY WORLD
Take over the distribution network, then you control the content providers
Anybody who CREATES anything has to go THROUGH YOU to DISTRIBUTE it.
and ANYBODY who PLAYS ANYTHING, pays YOU to PLAY IT.
Hey, where did the internet go?

Intelligence test: 
In this video, what is Microsoft NOT SAYING about YOUR wonderful future ?
They left something out of the pitch, it must have been <deliberate> , right?
Can you spot the missing info?

                                              

 

<<its actually about choice for you>>
                 ROFLMAO

 

 

[Tarkules 153]

16 hours ago, Poolofdeath1337 said:

So this post isn't here to attack BI it's to inform you as the community how we can start forcing change on games in "preview or early access".

If you want to "force change on games", making such a post on BI's forums or any other games company is just pointless. Should have posted this on Microsoft or a news blog.

Your frustration, like many others, is because you got used (too quickly) to get weekly updates and patches and tweets, and worst - you let yourself to get carried away in the xbox hype (myself included).

The only real problem I see here, is the lack of super-heavy and professional PR management. This way they could tell you in the nicest words to "Take it, or leave it".

But instead, only here you can discuss your feelings with thousands of bored and disappointed xbox players who can share you misery.

I bet this forum is being refreshed countless times by players like you and me hoping to hear some news, but hey, what if nothing happens, like forever? 

Cheer the fuck up.

[TheYetiBum 790]

Tbh whether your an Xbox or PC player all your doing is funnelling your money into large faceless organisations. Whether they be American or chinese. Heck china the biggest breacher of human rights in the world is almost solely funded by it's government owned tech companies pumping out PC components faster than a fat kid eats cake. There are no moral or intellectual smart buys anymore, everyone is funding someone elses misery or slave labour somewhere else on the planet.

   Most people buy console because of the simplicity of the system or because of lack of funds to build a personal rig, anyone who bought an xbox thinking it would offer any kind of 'freedom' was obviously too deluded to begin with lol.

But PC is no better, its just an added layer of delusion thinking that there's any freedom involved. It's just a more expensive closed system that offers more wiggle room so peoples freedom itch can be scratched but never actually fully realised, all the while giant corporations get bigger.

Edited October 9, 2018 by TheYetiBum

[pilgrim* 3514]

4 hours ago, TheYetiBum said:

...//..  a n added layer of delusion thinking that there's any freedom involved. It's just a more expensive closed system that offers more wiggle room so peoples freedom itch can be scratched but never actually fully realised ..//..

 

 

                             The main thing to remember about a large corporation is it is  a non-human life form.

 

                             Don't ever forget that.

 

 

[Nayte 503]

4 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

 

 

                             The main thing to remember about a large corporation is it is  a non-human life form.

 

                             Don't ever forget that.

 

 

Capitalism is a good thing.

Remember, no one wants to work for a poor person.

It’s when governments try to stick their hands into the mix is when trouble starts..

[Poolofdeath1337 8]

So to set something's straight anyone telling me look at what you buy or getting into I can direct you too my steam page where I bought dayZ(the day it came out nd have 2k hrs) ark pubg or any other preview game not to mention the the copies on my Xbox account so I'm very familiar with how a preview works. Now the ones that posting the Microsoft terms of service for returns I'm glad you  believe what an automated system can do I'm assuming you never worked a retail environment where directly speaking with a human gets u a lot further then looking at link or online system .But regardless we all have our ways of handling things. My hope was the mods who patrol the forums could let dev know people are frustrated nd feel they need better communication or clear direction of there product. if not the ones u see on the forum who r complaining or getting frustrated  would use my suggestion and if enough people did it, this would light a fire under the devs asses for the Xbox side of things.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Poolofdeath1337

[Poolofdeath1337 8]

And btw I take nothing away from BI I love dayZ's concept since it was taken from arma mod. I believe it can and someday will be a good product but 5 plus years of sitting in alpha so they can avoid the PR shit storm. if it was a full game released the way it was let's face it  dayZ would have never made past 3months so this was placed to give the consumer knowledge how to return a game preview if there truly unhappy with what was purchased 

[pilgrim* 3514]

2 hours ago, Nayte said:

Capitalism is a good thing.

Remember, no one wants to work for a poor person.

It’s when governments try to stick their hands into the mix is when trouble starts..

 

Well - you have your opinion, that's clear - but it has no bearing on  what i was talking about at all.
lets leave the pro-and-con broadsheet arguments for the kids and the fanatics. That's not where I live. I have nothing to say here about any forms of contemporary government.

I was not making a party political point about "good or bad" - you have not understood me - a large corporation is a life form that exists to grow and thrive for it's OWN benefit..  it does NOT exist for the benefit of it's workers (it is not a cooperative or a village community or a family or tribe, etc) .. it does NOT exist for the benefit of the consumers, but it MUST convince the consumers that they are happy with its products in order that it can GROW, EXPAND continue to make goods, a similar function to the reason a tree makes apples, perhaps?. but that activity requires taking 'maximum'  advantage of current human attributes, NOT to make humans somehow "better" (whatever you take that to mean). It's aim is NOT the well being of the consumer although it must take their conscious or unconscious beliefs & desires into account if it wants to continue to GROW  -  its AIM is to make itself wealthier, to get bigger, to protect itself, to spawn .. to WIN (a standard life form, really)

This is odd because to Exist  it USES people to ACHIEVE its own ends.. these may by chance correspond to human ambitions, but the ORGANISM will spend considerable energy, time and money - which it has collected from consumers - to gain more consumers, convince consumers they are doing the right thing by giving it their money, for whatever it provides (and what it provides MUST be worth LESS than the money it charges or it will not GROW)..   and of course the people who work  in the company are NOT the company.

So we have an entity which is NOT HUMAN.. which aims to GROW and EXPAND by feeding off humans it can attract, and keeping them happy while it feeds ..
I find this interesting.. this ENTITY has no VOTE, it is NOT a member of a Democracy, it is NOT even human.. so simply, it is a non human life form. It uses humans to its own ends which MAY be good or bad ends.. I will avoid THAT discussion; it depends on your individual moral attitude.. but we know (what counts) is the company's moral attitude.. i.e. to  <<Grow without having Humans turn against you>>

For instance we could say the reason a tapeworm exists is to encourage humans to eat more - but we know this is false - that creature has it's own agenda, it exists to thrive and to live -  and the effect on humans consuming more is a simple SIDE EFFECT.

So without being POLITICAL I go back to my original message... this thing is not human, it has no vote, it is not "democratic" it is not "capitalist" (those are HUMAN attributes or theories) it Influences votes, it influences humans, it seeks to GROW for it's OWN reasons, which it is INCAPABLE of revealing because it CANT SPEAK...  only individual humans employed by the entity can speak, and they voice something of their opinions inside the Entity structure, but they are NOT IT. - because IT, the non-human life-form will still be there long after they are gone, sacked, retired, grown rich, been replaced, died..

In the same way you grow a new patch of skin cells if you scrape your elbow.. it will grow humans to fit the functions it requires.  This message is simple and I didn't intend to spell it out. I thought it would be obvious in one sentence.. - but to claim capitalism is good or bad has nothing to do with those Entities..  that's an individual human being speaking, and a Big Corporation is for SURE NOT an individual in ANY WAY  (not in any way that WE can understand, WE are still at the level of talking about "tribes", and "interest groups", and "political theories").

The big Corporations are relatively new on our planet.. they have superceded democracy and communism, kingship, clans, and fascism, alike.. they have NO need to vote or take part in wars  (except without "emotion"where it helps them GROW).. they manufacture slogans and weapons and TV sets .. but they don't USE that stuff.. only humans do that

At what age do you expect Coca Cola to die, or to retire ??  Or to declare that it is a cooperative dedicating its profit 100%  to the non-profit improvement of African living standards.. etc... when coca cola passes away will we sing hymns and bury it ?

What is the lifespan of these creatures - HOW do they communicate with each other?

They are EASY to see. I don't know why folk confuse them with human beings. They are nothing like human beings. There are only a few hundred of the <Big Ones> on the face of the earth. And THEY change the face of the earth.

<< p.s. - this is not a conspiracy theory.. conspiracy has as little to do with this life-form as communism or capitalism, etc..  it doesn't give a damn about those names, those words, those things, it manipulates those words. It has ORGANS to deal with them. >>

= there ya go =

Nayte, bet ya didn't read that did ya?

 

[ I work for poor people at the moment, they don't pay me for the work or skills I can offer, but that's no comment on your philosophy
Every human individual has their own freedom of choice - whoever they work for - at all times. Choice and life are two words meaning one thing.]

xxP

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by pilgrim*

[Arctic Volkssturm 95]

19 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

  Hide contents

Well - you have your opinion, that's clear - but it has no bearing on  what i was talking about at all.
lets leave the pro-and-con broadsheet arguments for the kids and the fanatics. That's not where I live. I have nothing to say here about any forms of contemporary government.

I was not making a party political point about "good or bad" - you have not understood me - a large corporation is a life form that exists to grow and thrive for it's OWN benefit..  it does NOT exist for the benefit of it's workers (it is not a cooperative or a village community or a family or tribe, etc) .. it does NOT exist for the benefit of the consumers, but it MUST convince the consumers that they are happy with its products in order that it can GROW, EXPAND continue to make goods, a similar function to the reason a tree makes apples, perhaps?. but that activity requires taking 'maximum'  advantage of current human attributes, NOT to make humans somehow "better" (whatever you take that to mean). It's aim is NOT the well being of the consumer although it must take their conscious or unconscious beliefs & desires into account if it wants to continue to GROW  -  its AIM is to make itself wealthier, to get bigger, to protect itself, to spawn .. to WIN (a standard life form, really)

This is odd because to Exist  it USES people to ACHIEVE its own ends.. these may by chance correspond to human ambitions, but the ORGANISM will spend considerable energy, time and money - which it has collected from consumers - to gain more consumers, convince consumers they are doing the right thing by giving it their money, for whatever it provides (and what it provides MUST be worth LESS than the money it charges or it will not GROW)..   and of course the people who work  in the company are NOT the company.

So we have an entity which is NOT HUMAN.. which aims to GROW and EXPAND by feeding off humans it can attract, and keeping them happy while it feeds ..
I find this interesting.. this ENTITY has no VOTE, it is NOT a member of a Democracy, it is NOT even human.. so simply, it is a non human life form. It uses humans to its own ends which MAY be good or bad ends.. I will avoid THAT discussion (it depends on your individual moral attitude.. but we know (what counts) is the companies moral attitude.. i.e. to  <<Grow without having Humans turn against you>>

For instance we could say the reason a tapeworm exists is to encourage humans to eat more - but we know this is false - that creature has it's own agenda, it exists to thrive and to live -  and the effect on humans consuming more is a simple SIDE EFFECT.

So without being POLITICAL I go back to my original message... this thing is not human, it has no vote, it is not "democratic" it is not "capitalist" (those are HUMAN attributes or theories) it Influences votes, it influences humans, it seeks to GROW for it's OWN reasons, which it is INCAPABLE of revealing because it CANT SPEAK...  only individual humans employed by the entity can speak, and they voice something of their opinions inside the Entity structure, but they are NOT IT. - because IT, the non-human life-form will still be there long after they are gone, sacked, retired, grown rich, been replaced, died..

In the same way you grow a new patch of skin cells if you scrape your elbow.. it will grow humans to fit the functions it requires.  This message is simple and I didn't intend to spell it out. I thought it would be obvious in one sentence.. - but to claim capitalism is good or bad has nothing to do with those Entities..  that's an individual human being speaking, and a Big Corporation is for SURE NOT an individual in ANY WAY  (not in any way that WE can understand, WE are still at the level of talking about "tribes", and "interest groups", and "political theories").

The big Corporations are relatively new on our planet.. they have superceded democracy and communism, kingship, clans, and fascism, alike.. they have NO need to vote or take part in wars  (except without "emotion"where it helps them GROW).. they manufacture slogans and weapons and TV sets .. but they don't USE that stuff.. only humans do that

At what age do you expect Coca Cola to die, or to retire ??  Or to declare that it is a cooperative dedicating its profit 100%  to the non-profit improvement of African living standards.. etc... when coca cola passes away will we sing hymns and bury it ?

What is the lifespan of these creatures - HOW do they communicate with each other?

They are EASY to see. I don't know why folk confuse them with human beings. They are nothing like human beings. There are only a few hundred of the <Big Ones> on the face of the earth. And THEY change the face of the earth.

<< p.s. - this is not a conspiracy theory.. conspiracy has as little to do with this life-form as communism or capitalism, etc..  it doesn't give a damn about those names, those words, those things, it manipulates those words. It has ORGANS to deal with them. >>

= there ya go =

Nayte, bet ya didn't read that did ya?

xxP

 

ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE global media corps and financial institutions. Don't worry pilgrim we're going to shut their lying mouths. Capitalism vs communism debate is pretty irrelevant when you have social media companies silencing political opinions and G**gle engineering censorship tech for China. BI is actually trying to provide a service no one else can at a fair price so they're good with me

[Nayte 503]

12 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

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I was not making a party political point about good or bad - you have not understood me - a large corporation is a life form that exists to grow and thrive for it's OWN benefit..  it does NOT exist for the benefit of it's workers (it is not a cooperative or a village community or a family or tribe, etc) .. it does NOT exist for the benefit of the consumers, but it MUST convince the consumers that they are happy with its products in order that it can GROW, EXPAND continue to make goods, a similar function to the reason a tree makes apples, perhaps?. but that activity requires taking 'maximum'  advantage of current human attributes, NOT to make humans somehow "better" (whatever you take that to mean). It's aim is NOT the well being of the consumer although it must take their conscious or unconscious beliefs & desires into account if it wants to continue to GROW  -  its AIM is to make itself wealthier, to get bigger, to protect itself, to spawn .. to WIN (a standard life form, really)

This is odd because to Exist  it USES people to ACHIEVE its own ends.. these may by chance correspond to human ambitions, but the ORGANISM will spend considerable energy, time and money - which it has collected from consumers - to gain more consumers, convince consumers they are doing the right thing by giving it their money, for whatever it provides (and what it provides MUST be worth LESS than the money it charges or it will not GROW)..   and of course the people who work  in the company are NOT the company.

So we have an entity which is NOT HUMAN.. which aims to GROW and EXPAND by feeding off humans it can attract, and keeping them happy while it feeds ..
I find this interesting.. this ENTITY has no VOTE, it is NOT a member of a Democracy, it is NOT even human.. so simply, it is a non human life form. It uses humans to its own ends which MAY be good or bad ends.. I will avoid THAT discussion (it depends on your individual moral attitude.. but we know (what counts) is the companies moral attitude.. i.e. to  <<Grow without having Humans turn against you>>

For instance we could say the reason a tapeworm exists is to encourage humans to eat more - but we know this is false - that creature has it's own agenda, it exists to thrive and to live -  and the effect on humans consuming more is a simple SIDE EFFECT.

So without being POLITICAL I go back to my original message... this thing is not human, it has no vote, it is not "democratic" it is not "capitalist" (those are HUMAN attributes or theories) it Influences votes, it influences humans, it seeks to GROW for it's OWN reasons, which it is INCAPABLE of revealing because it CANT SPEAK...  only individual humans employed by the entity can speak, and they voice something of their opinions inside the Entity structure, but they are NOT IT. - because IT, the non-human life-form will still be there long after they are gone, sacked, retired, grown rich, been replaced, died..

In the same way you grow a new patch of skin cells if you scrape your elbow.. it will grow humans to fit the functions it requires.  This message is simple and I didn't intend to spell it out. I thought it would be obvious in one sentence.. - but to claim capitalism is good or bad has nothing to do with those Entities..  that's an individual human being speaking, and a Big Corporation is for SURE NOT an individual in ANY WAY  (not in any way that WE can understand, WE are still at the level of talking about "tribes", and "interest groups", and "political theories").

The big Corporations are relatively new on our planet.. they have superceded democracy and communism, kingship, clans, and fascism, alike.. they have NO need to vote or take part in wars  (except without "emotion"where it helps them GROW).. they manufacture slogans and weapons and TV sets .. but they don't USE that stuff.. only humans do that

At what age do you expect Coca Cola to die, or to retire ??  Or to declare that it is a cooperative dedicating its profit 100%  to the non-profit improvement of African living standards.. etc... when coca cola passes away will we sing hymns and bury it ?

What is the lifespan of these creatures - HOW do they communicate with each other?

They are EASY to see. I don't know why folk confuse them with human beings. They are nothing like human beings. There are only a few hundred of the <Big Ones> on the face of the earth. And THEY change the face of the earth.

<< p.s. - this is not a conspiracy theory.. conspiracy has as little to do with this life-form as communism or capitalism, etc..  it doesn't give a damn about those names, those words, those things, it manipulates those words. It has ORGANS to deal with them. >>

there ya go

xxP

 

I wasn’t trying to put a political agenda in place with my post, as in the US, capitalism (no party affiliation) is a big factor as to why buisnesss (and people) were, and are, able to become very successful, without the state becoming involved.

While it’s true corporations, after some time, lose their human factor. At the end of the day, it’s still people which decide whether or not to continue to fund said organization. 

That’s the beauty of the consumer base. If they (we) enjoy a particular product, we buy, invest, and the company grows.

On the flip side, billion dollar corporations have gone under from many different bad business practices. People are still able to affect a businesses outcome, as the bottom line hits them, the ripple continues.

Humans have a tendacy to read into things that just aren’t there. It makes things seems more interesting, like there’s some grand scheme going on behind the scenes.

Think Illuminati... OooOooO

Whats created by man can be undone by man.

 

[pilgrim* 3514]

21 minutes ago, Nayte said:

I..//..

OK, so this takes us back to what Poolofdeath1337 was saying in the first post in this thread - his thread.

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by pilgrim*

[Nayte 503]

3 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

OK, so this takes us back to what Poolofdeath1337 was saying in the first post in this thread - his thread.

In a sense...given the fact people are able to enact change.

However, just because change is possible, doesn’t mean it should always be done.

Particularly in the sense of art (gaming). Companies like BI should be free to create the experience they were after when creating DayZ.

That’s not to say we as consumers shouldn’t have a voice, only that (again) we should be careful what, and how, those changes we want fit into their game.

It’s always interesting how things come full circle..