What would you do if they removed third person view?

[fosty99 160]

I know this will probably never happen, but I wonder what the community would do. Answer honestly.

[schwaBAM 200]

While I do enjoy 3pp (because I like to look at my character), and I do know friends who only like 3pp, I would hate to see it go.  But 1pp feels sooooooo much more immersive.  Love it.

[Parazight 1599]

It isn't even a remote possibility.

 

[fosty99 160]

47 minutes ago, Parazight said:

It isn't even a remote possibility.

 

Timestamped 3:10
 

 

[Parazight 1599]

haha

Sorry, this isn't exactly the first thread on this topic.

To answer your question directly, I don't know what I would do.  Social Interaction is important to me.  I'd have to wait and see if I'd leave or not.  I enjoy 1PP, but there's a ton of people in 3rd.  Would DayZ survive being 1PP only?  It's not black or white.

[Sqeezorz 839]

I think the poll here will not bring an authentic result. Here are mostly members who know what DayZ is, and therefore also very well agree with 1pp. Out there, however, there is another majority who play or love DayZ differently.

(There are also understandable reasons that speak for 3pp, for example, motion sickness).

[pilgrim* 3514]

5 hours ago, fosty99 said:

I know this will probably never happen, but I wonder what the community would do. Answer honestly.

look up the last poll and thread on this subject and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that

and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that

and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that?

And

THEN look up the discussions about CHANGING 3PP to avoid wall peeking etc etc etc etc  ( .. )

AND the dev experiments with 3PP and the reactions

THEN look up the discussions about REALISM  etc etc etc etc  ( .. )

And which servers permit which and WHY

THEN know the whole subject will be DROPPED again and go on doing whatever I do

xxp

[Rekurv 53]

Personally I like playing (and prefer) 1p servers because I know people are not hiding behind walls looking over them in 3rd person in complete safety. I'm sure there would be a fair bit of salt from some people though.

[Derleth 1357]

Personally I prefer 3d person since for me it is more immersive. 1st person is okay for pure shooters like CoD, Battlefield or Doom, but to me DayZ is more of an adventure or RPG so if there was no 3d person I would probably find another survival game.

I don't play DayZ primarily to fight other players (although the pvp part is what gives it that essential fear-of-death flavour that makes it unique), I play it to explore, scavenge and survive. Doing stuff like that I want to see my character. Whenever I end up in a gunfight I tend to swap to 1st person anyway since I can't aim in 3d person. My brain is just wired wrong, I guess I played too much Doom back in the nineties...

As for that "corner peeping" mechanic which is the main gripe of folks howling for 1st person only, I actually couldn't care less. Make it so players you wouldn't see if in 1st person are hidden until they actually come into your line of sight, and 3d person is fixed for you too. I don't use 3d person to get an advantage, I use it because I like it.

[Ninefingers 19]

FPP or bust, switched to FPP in Day Zero mod for Arma 2 and never looked back, I cannot play 3PP anymore, in Arma, Dayz or PUBG it is just disgusting to me, floating camera, that is abused to get information risk free, in FPP you need to expose yourself to get information, which makes the action way more tense, it also gives more meaning to flanking maneuvers, and things like suppressive fire, which are pretty much useless in 3PP when people see you moving from perfect safety, or can prefire a corner accurately while being suppressed or without you being even aware they were there, it is just dumb, this is my personal opinion, to each their own . 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Ninefingers

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

11 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

Personally I prefer 3d person since for me it is more immersive. 1st person is okay for pure shooters like CoD, Battlefield or Doom, -snip-

This is the first post you've made that I completely disagree with.

The developers have openly encouraged people to try 1pp because it is the most immersive.

3pp is literally a leftover aspect of Arma 2 that people used in the mod, people got comfortable with it, and now we're stuck with an RTS view that was literally labeled easy mode in Arma 2. How can you have a respectable zombie game where you can see the pattern of zombies from behind a wall? When will you ever be surprised by the infected? How is having an invisible camera drone at your disposal immersive?

The only valid argument I've heard is motion sickness. Otherwise, people just like the path of least resistance. You can gawk at your character all you want in the inventory screen....

[Sqeezorz 839]

The advantages of 3pp to combat should be filled with disadvantages in this attitude.

(For example: 3pp is only possible with an empty hand slot, which does not solve all the advantages, but breaks the advantage of seeing the wall to shoot, because the handling of the slot change should make audible noises.)

Surely a suggestion of me no Applause from the world will bring.

[Derleth 1357]

13 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

This is the first post you've made that I completely disagree with.

The developers have openly encouraged people to try 1pp because it is the most immersive.

3pp is literally a leftover aspect of Arma 2 that people used in the mod, people got comfortable with it, and now we're stuck with an RTS view that was literally labeled easy mode in Arma 2. How can you have a respectable zombie game where you can see the pattern of zombies from behind a wall? When will you ever be surprised by the infected? How is having an invisible camera drone at your disposal immersive?

The only valid argument I've heard is motion sickness. Otherwise, people just like the path of least resistance. You can gawk at your character all you want in the inventory screen....

Like I said earlier it's a personal preference, I'll try to explain below.

The thing is when playing shooters I prefer 1st person, or rather I have to have it because I'm perfectly honest when I say I can't aim in 3rd person. That body blocking half the screen just bothers me too much, and the crosshair doesn't help (although the dynamic one in 0.62 actually worked better for me, sad to see it go in 0.63). I was "born and bred" a 1st person player since I started gaming in earnest around the time good old Doom was released. I spent far too much time at university playing Doom deathmatches in the computer lab. The IT bear (really, the man was hairy, I'm still half convinced he was Bigfoot) hated us and wiped the game from the hard drives every day, but we just put it right back next evening. Doom fit on just a few floppy disks...

I grew fond of 3rd person in 3d games when games like GTA3 and various RPG:s came around. I've always hated close combat in 1st person, to me it just looks and feels incredibly dumb, those floating arms and weapons are absolutely awful. When my friends were all like "YOU HAVE TO PLAY MORROWIND IT'S SOOO GOOD!!" I just couldn't bear it, tried a few hours and ragequit. And in DayZ I usually kill zeds in close combat to keep from getting swarmed so 3rd person is crucial.

Anyway for me this all boils down to 1st person being for pure shooters and 3rd person for rpg:s and sandboxes. And to me DayZ is not primarily a shooter, when I feel like shooting at other players I'll play Battlefield or PUBG for a couple of hours. Fast, arcadish and a bit of fun, but ultimately shallow and boring in the long run. DayZ is so much more than a shooter, forcing 3rd person on everyone just to cater to pvp extremists (sorry) would not be a good decision, especially when there are already 1st person only servers available. Why force 3rd person on everyone when you have the option to play on pure 1st person servers anyway? Doesn't make sense to me.

As for the corner peeping, I keep forgetting it's there since my old brain can't readjust after all those years playing pewpew in 1st person. I wouldn't mind if they made it so the game simply will not show any player or AI unit that would not be in LOS in 1st person. Would be a fair and sensible change. 

 Removing 3rd person entirely would actually be a gamebreaker though, I'd have to find something else or wait for modders to put it back in...

Edit: Another sensible change would be to go right to 1st person when raising hands with a firearm, so no hipfiring in 3rd person. Isn't PUBG like this already?

Edited July 11, 2018 by Beavis3D

[Parazight 1599]

Corner peeking is the devil, for sure.  A workaround is to not put yourself in a position where you'll be a victim of it. Easier said than done, I know.  Patient observation is critical.  Also, I would bet that players die to their own bad decisions more often than to corner peeking exploitation.  The other workaround is to embrace death. Become callous to it.  Having multiple characters and stashes helps to mitigate the sting of permadeath.  (note that permadeath isn't even a thing anymore)

I've always liked the fact that 3PP provides an extra boost of awareness that makes up for a lack of it in other areas.  Sound triangulation, the realities of computer rendering, total lack of sense of smell, and not being able to detect subtle body language are but a few examples of where a computer game just can't deliver like reality.  3pp (and eye zoom) help to bridge the gap where awareness suffers due to the limitations and nature of interacting with a computer screen.

Can anyone name a title of an MMO that only provided a first person perspective that was widely successful?

[wartzilla 182]

I would finally be able to play this game without everyone having a personal invisible surveillance drone over their heads.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

5 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

it's a personal preference

It's only a personal preference because the game was built off of Arma2.

I think it's safe to say that if DayZ SA was created in a world where Arma2 didn't have "easy mode", it would have been made as a 1pp only game.

5 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

I can't aim in 3rd person

Most players who play on 3pp switch say they switch to 1pp when using firearms.

5 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

around the time good old Doom was released

Yeah, I played Wolfenstein on C64, and played Doom on more than a few platforms, including Atari Jaguar. Shooters haven't interested me since GoldenEye really. I consider them to be the most repetitive and stale gaming experience available. DayZ gives me a reason to carry a gun in a game, to protect myself. Not just to shoot at everything that moves. There's an actual decision to be made as to whether to shoot or not and that adds tension (if you don't KoS).

5 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

I usually kill zeds in close combat to keep from getting swarmed so 3rd person is crucial.

I find CQC to be far superior and more immersive in 1pp, always.

5 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

Anyway for me this all boils down to 1st person being for pure shooters

That's definitely just your opinion and does not reflect the facts. Why would VR be so impactful if 1pp didn't provide more immersion for nearly every genre?

5 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

DayZ is so much more than a shooter, forcing 3rd person on everyone just to cater to pvp extremists (sorry)

To me this shows that you have not followed the discussion around DayZ much, at least not on this forum. 3pp is DEFINITELY preferred by most players who search for PvP only. Myself and most of my non-KoS friends prefer 1pp and it often seems like most people who play in a survivalist style that I've met say they prefer 1pp.

5 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

especially when there are already 1st person only servers available. Why force 3rd person on everyone when you have the option to play on pure 1st person servers anyway? Doesn't make sense to me.

The ratio of 1pp only servers to 3pp only is paltry and that's purely because more people took the path of least resistance and chose 3pp. I reiterate, "I think it's safe to say that if DayZ SA was created in a world where Arma2 didn't have "easy mode", it would have been made as a 1pp only game." There is a status report where the devs plead with the player base to try 1pp.

6 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

As for the corner peeping

In Stress test, servers are often 3pp only.

I laid on top of the apartment buildings in Novo, zoomed out to 3pp, and watched more than half the city completely hidden from view for 30 minutes.

3pp doesn't just effect "corner peeping"....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

3pp destroys the DayZ experience.

At no time should you ever feel "safe".

Being able to hide behind a structure and see where half the infected are in the town is "game breaking". Being able to see the loot inside the buildings without entering them is "game breaking". Astral projection to see further out into the horizon is "game breaking".

I've played in 1pp with more than a few people who say they prefer 3pp, and they almost always have the revelation that 1pp is more tense and immersive.

Saying that 3pp accommodates for the fact that a flat screen cannot reproduce a realistic FoV is a weak argument, one which I've never seen brought up in regards to other 1pp games.

If I played in 3pp I would almost never accidentally run into players or infected and my survival first play style would be mostly me just running away. 1pp forces me to interact more because there are more times I find myself in close proximity of another player and I'm forced to talk or defend myself.

DayZ is not and adventure game or RPG, and is often not treated like a sandbox by most players, sometimes with good reason (missing features being one). DayZ is essentially built on a shooter, whether we like it or not. Every aspect of DayZ leans hard on reproducing a level of "authenticity".

3pp is so far against the core of what I understand should be the DayZ experience, that I find it cringe worthy, and a massive shame and detriment to keeping DayZ more a sandbox and less a shooter.

[Ninefingers 19]

This video has been posted time and time again, it breaks it down very nicely .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zoVIsIT2A

Edited July 11, 2018 by Ninefingers

[Derleth 1357]

5 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

It's only a personal preference because the game was built off of Arma2.

I think it's safe to say that if DayZ SA was created in a world where Arma2 didn't have "easy mode", it would have been made as a 1pp only game.

Most players who play on 3pp switch say they switch to 1pp when using firearms.

Yeah, I played Wolfenstein on C64, and played Doom on more than a few platforms, including Atari Jaguar. Shooters haven't interested me since GoldenEye really. I consider them to be the most repetitive and stale gaming experience available. DayZ gives me a reason to carry a gun in a game, to protect myself. Not just to shoot at everything that moves. There's an actual decision to be made as to whether to shoot or not and that adds tension (if you don't KoS).

I find CQC to be far superior and more immersive in 1pp, always.

That's definitely just your opinion and does not reflect the facts. Why would VR be so impactful if 1pp didn't provide more immersion for nearly every genre?

To me this shows that you have not followed the discussion around DayZ much, at least not on this forum. 3pp is DEFINITELY preferred by most players who search for PvP only. Myself and most of my non-KoS friends prefer 1pp and it often seems like most people who play in a survivalist style that I've met say they prefer 1pp.

The ratio of 1pp only servers to 3pp only is paltry and that's purely because more people took the path of least resistance and chose 3pp. I reiterate, "I think it's safe to say that if DayZ SA was created in a world where Arma2 didn't have "easy mode", it would have been made as a 1pp only game." There is a status report where the devs plead with the player base to try 1pp.

In Stress test, servers are often 3pp only.

I laid on top of the apartment buildings in Novo, zoomed out to 3pp, and watched more than half the city completely hidden from view for 30 minutes.

3pp doesn't just effect "corner peeping"....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

3pp destroys the DayZ experience.

At no time should you ever feel "safe".

Being able to hide behind a structure and see where half the infected are in the town is "game breaking". Being able to see the loot inside the buildings without entering them is "game breaking". Astral projection to see further out into the horizon is "game breaking".

I've played in 1pp with more than a few people who say they prefer 3pp, and they almost always have the revelation that 1pp is more tense and immersive.

Saying that 3pp accommodates for the fact that a flat screen cannot reproduce a realistic FoV is a weak argument, one which I've never seen brought up in regards to other 1pp games.

If I played in 3pp I would almost never accidentally run into players or infected and my survival first play style would be mostly me just running away. 1pp forces me to interact more because there are more times I find myself in close proximity of another player and I'm forced to talk or defend myself.

DayZ is not and adventure game or RPG, and is often not treated like a sandbox by most players, sometimes with good reason (missing features being one). DayZ is essentially built on a shooter, whether we like it or not. Every aspect of DayZ leans hard on reproducing a level of "authenticity".

3pp is so far against the core of what I understand should be the DayZ experience, that I find it cringe worthy, and a massive shame and detriment to keeping DayZ more a sandbox and less a shooter.

I haven't stated anything I said as fact, quite the opposite, I was very clear with that I was stating my personal views. I never played the Arma2 mod so I don't have that reference I'm afraid, but if DayZ had been a 1st person only game I'm fairly sure I would have thought twice about buying it. I guess it's kind of irrational, but any other actions than ranged weapon combat feels utterly cheesy for me in 1st person. You often can't see what your character is doing, the camera wiggles a bit back and forth and things get done, to some that is immersive but to me this is cringy. On the current experimental I noticed a bug that makes the character do the "slit throat" emote when you try to wash your hands with a water bottle. In 1st person I wouldn't have seen the emote, I'd just know the character didn't wash his hands.

On the other hand, that anyone would prefer 3rd person for pvp feels completely alien to me, for the reasons I stated earlier. That must have everything to do with the advantage you get with that invisible drone hovering behind your head, so like I suggested earlier: hide players and AI units that wouldn't be in your 1st person LOS and that is fixed. Loot I don't know, wouldn't consider that much of an issue but you could do it with that too unless the character is in e.g. the same room as the item in question.

Maybe the rates between 1st person and 3rd person servers would need to be changed with the above changes? Meaning that players would migrate from 3rd person if it wouldn't give them that advantage? Who knows, I know I wouldn't change anyway.

I would probably be able to adapt to 1st person only since I enjoy the game very much, but it would take away part of what makes it so enjoyable for me. Here we are obviously very different.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Beavis3D

[pilgrim* 3514]

Can you get to the "field of vision" argument please?  - that's where this thread always starts getting interesting (traditionally).

A human being in the real world has about 170° field of vision in front of them without moving their head . How do you imitate that on your screen?

I used to love this argument, it has gone on for years, please do it again.

xxp

 

 

 

[Parazight 1599]

2 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

3pp destroys the DayZ experience.  

1pp destroys the MMO experience. 

2 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

At no time should you ever feel "safe".

I always feel safe.  Even during my time with 1PP pvp squads.  There are no actual consequences.  Permadeath doesn't exist.

2 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Being able to hide behind a structure and see where half the infected are in the town is "game breaking". Being able to see the loot inside the buildings without entering them is "game breaking". Astral projection to see further out into the horizon is "game breaking".

Doesn't seem game breaking to me.  How can this statement NOT be totally subjective?? 

Maybe if you replace 'game' with 'reality'. 

2 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

3pp is so far against the core of what I understand should be the DayZ experience, that I find it cringe worthy, and a massive shame and detriment to keeping DayZ more a sandbox and less a shooter.

Isn't DayZ meant to be a social experiment?  So it's an MMO first.  Either way, views are all subjective.  What it 'should' be doesn't matter.

I use corner peeking all the time to Chat-on-Sight.  It's a great tool to find other players that you may not otherwise notice.  Think of all the friendly interactions you're missing out on by not having 3PP!  In my opinion, dying 90% of the time to corner-peek-sniping is absolutely worth an interesting 10% of the time where it's not just Killing on Sight.

In the end, it doesn't really matter what the developers' vision is.  The only thing that matters is what it will naturally evolve to be and how players use the game to do what they're gonna do.  The original idea was to create a lawless social experiment where people can choose to interact how they wish.  It's noble that the intent was to create an atmosphere where your decisions create consequences in a social environment, but ultimately it's pointless and dumb because there are no real consequences, moral or practical.   You can kill a person in-game and not be a bad person because there's no real world consequence.  With the introduction of multiple characters and limitless persistence options, permadeath is no longer a factor.  Experiencing permadeath was real back around the time of ~.20 and matched the intention of the original vision, but that game-state wasn't a practical vision for a video game company.  Thus, the title evolved from the intended vision to what it actually is now.  So, what it 'should' be is subjective and off the mark to what actually happens.

Honestly, you don't have to ever leave the coast to experience the endgame vision.  Social interaction is heavily available on the coast AND you can find all the best loot there (on other players).   It's funny that zones were created to promote progression across the map when it's completely impractical.  Survival will never be hard because you don't have to stay alive for extended periods in order interact with others, which is what DayZ 'should' be about, right?  Once a player realizes that loot doesn't really matter (permadeath no longer exists)(try to not get distracted by the shiny) and doesn't really affect social interaction, then what's the point of DayZ again?

Here, the 3PP vs 1PP debate comes full circle.  How people use it.  Often, 3PP gets the negative connotation of being a tool to help players KoS easily.  Perhaps it should be viewed as a way to interact safely with complete strangers, which is how I use it.

In the end, it's all pretty subjective, no matter what side of the fence you're on.  The reality is that it isn't a wise business decision to remove 3PP, and that's far more important than game design vision.

Removing 3PP,..

On 7/9/2018 at 11:12 PM, Parazight said:

It isn't even a remote possibility.

 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

1pp destroys the MMO experience. 

I disagree

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

Permadeath doesn't exist.

In stable I prefer to play like it does, for future readiness. In experimental builds and stress test builds where I know my character won't last more than a week I usually play a bit looser.

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

Doesn't seem game breaking to me.  How can this statement NOT be totally subjective?? 

Maybe if you replace 'game' with 'reality'. 

If you agree with the basic concept that DayZ aims for authenticity, then you must agree that having an invisible drone is anything but authentic.

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

Isn't DayZ meant to be a social experiment?  So it's an MMO first.

It's a survival horror MMO that most people exploit the feature pour versions to play as a shooter.

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

I use corner peeking all the time to Chat-on-Sight.  It's a great tool to find other players that you may not otherwise notice.  Think of all the friendly interactions you're missing out on by not having 3PP!  In my opinion, dying 90% of the time to corner-peek-sniping is absolutely worth an interesting 10% of the time where it's not just Killing on Sight.

You are in a tiny minority playing this way. I have a very good average of "friendly" and neutral encounters in 1PP by nearly running into another player and talking through the situation.

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

In the end, it doesn't really matter what the developers' vision is.  The only thing that matters is what it will naturally evolve to be and how players use the game to do what they're gonna do.  The original idea was to create a lawless social experiment where people can choose to interact how they wish.  It's noble that the intent was to create an atmosphere where your decisions create consequences in a social environment, but ultimately it's pointless and dumb because there are no real consequences, moral or practical.   You can kill a person in-game and not be a bad person because there's no real world consequence.  With the introduction of multiple characters and limitless persistence options, permadeath is no longer a factor.  Experiencing permadeath was real back around the time of ~.20 and matched the intention of the original vision, but that game-state wasn't a practical vision for a video game company.  Thus, the title evolved from the intended vision to what it actually is now.  So, what it 'should' be is subjective and off the mark to what actually happens.

Where do I even begin to unpack this?

The developers vision is carried into Vanilla.

Modded versions of DayZ will fulfill the enlarged bold faced type I highlighted. I firmly believe that most people will not play Vanilla, or hardcore survival mods and DayZ will have PuBG/CoD/BF style mods which I would guess 75% of players will gravitate to.

PERMADEATH will be very real on private servers, private hives, and single server based mods.

The "moral" consequences are up to the player who can choose to project themselves into their character and act accordingly as a survivor might or be a disaffected rambo asshole in an apocalypse.

Modded versions will settle all of these concerns, from 3pp to KoS. I imagine there will be certain versions with 0 survival elements at all and are basically Arma with a DayZ skin.

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

Honestly, you don't have to ever leave the coast to experience the endgame vision.  Social interaction is heavily available on the coast AND you can find all the best loot there (on other players).   It's funny that zones were created to promote progression across the map when it's completely impractical.  Survival will never be hard because you don't have to stay alive for extended periods in order interact with others, which is what DayZ 'should' be about, right?  Once a player realizes that loot doesn't really matter (permadeath no longer exists)(try to not get distracted by the shiny) and doesn't really affect social interaction, then what's the point of DayZ again?

Base building, camps, and vehicles, alone will provide a lot of goals and "endgame" that require little interaction outside of maybe joining a clan or group. 

Some of my favorite memories of DayZ are the interactions but I very much enjoyed playing 600+ hours of the mod almost completely by myself and proving I could thrive that way. For me, logging into the mod and seeing how many days I've survived typed across the screen was a big incentive to play everyday. I knew I had avoided or killed many murderers and killed hundreds of infected and traversed the map many many times, having built vehicles and established camps and stashes, eventually banding together like minded survivors and pooling resources.

In a sandbox the endgame is essentially up to the player, to some people that's being a coast rat, to others that means living off the land in the North, and to even more people it's some kind of quasi-CoD experience. Which are all "valid", though I might argue some styles are more fun for the entire player base than others.

The "point of DayZ" is just as the tagline says, "This is DayZ. This is your story.". I can RP any number of characters, serious or not, all under the context of a zombie apocalypse. You've found your preferred play style, and that's fine, I mean, in real life I value experience far more than material items as well... but I fear you've steered me too far off topic....

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

Here, the 3PP vs 1PP debate comes full circle.  How people use it.  Often, 3PP gets the negative connotation of being a tool to help players KoS easily.  Perhaps it should be viewed as a way to interact safely with complete strangers, which is how I use it.

In the end, it's all pretty subjective, no matter what side of the fence you're on.  The reality is that it isn't a wise business decision to remove 3PP, and that's far more important than game design vision.

Again, you are in the tiniest of minorities with this use of 3pp drone cam.

You're also tying KoS in too closely here. 3pp drastically effects any form of PvP and PvE experience, whether talking comes first or not.

I do not believe that the concept of immersion is subjective at all. There can be clear and logical definitions of what's immersive and why.

I've known for a long time that removing 3pp isn't going to happen, and yeah, it's a business decision, but the devs would not have publicly encouraged the player base to try 1pp if they did not believe that 1pp was more true to their design vision. A vast majority of people play 3pp because it's easier and that's where their friends play on, period. I almost always ask new players this question and the answers are almost always the same.

3 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

Can you get to the "field of vision" argument please?

 

6 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Saying that 3pp accommodates for the fact that a flat screen cannot reproduce a realistic FoV is a weak argument, one which I've never seen brought up in regards to other 1pp games.

I thought I had?

[Derleth 1357]

19 hours ago, Parazight said:

I've always liked the fact that 3PP provides an extra boost of awareness that makes up for a lack of it in other areas.  Sound triangulation, the realities of computer rendering, total lack of sense of smell, and not being able to detect subtle body language are but a few examples of where a computer game just can't deliver like reality.  3pp (and eye zoom) help to bridge the gap where awareness suffers due to the limitations and nature of interacting with a computer screen.

I think this bit put better words on why I prefer 3rd person perspective. It gives me some spatial awareness that I don't get in 1st person, the feeling that I'm playing a person and not a drone/android/avatar I'm controlling from the safety of a computer. I know it's a contradiction in terms, how can seeing my avatar from behind his head give me a stronger feeling of "being" him than looking through his eyes? 

It's all very subjective of course, I'm talking feelings here. But 1st person has never been very immersive to me since it does not actually feel like I'm looking through the eyes of a person, it just feels like I'm looking through a camera. To me it might as well be an airplane, space ship or a mechanical fly I'm controlling, since I don't see it I don't feel it. I believe field of vision and perspective is the culprit here so I don't think it will ever change, unless I'm playing in full VR. Which would be awesome, tried Resident Evil 7 VR on my mate's system, and although the game itself is very dumb the immersion is incredible. Playing DayZ like that would probably give me a heart attack.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Beavis3D

[pilgrim* 3514]

11 hours ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

I disagree

I prefer

an invisible drone

 exploit

You are in a tiny minority playing this way

Where do I even begin to unpack this?

The developers vision is carried into Vanilla.

 I firmly believe

hardcore survival mods

PERMADEATH will be very real

The "moral" consequences 

a disaffected rambo asshole . 

3pp drone cam.

3pp drastically effects any form of PvP

I do not believe that the concept of immersion is subjective at all

clear and logical definitions of what's immersive and why

it's a business decision

the devs would not have publicly encouraged the player base to try 1pp if they did not believe that 1pp was more true to their design vision.

majority of people play 3pp because it's easier

and that's where their friends play on, period

I thought I had?

 

Sorry Biohaze but this (above)  is all NOT argument or discussion, it is just

DOGMA

You must show us the stone tablets handed down from the mountain with all this DOGMA written on them before we will say THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND IT IS BIOHAZE'S GOD  right along with you.

Sorry I only got involved, but I did.... <sigh>

SOME PEOPLE for YEARS have sworn that 3P is like having your eyeballs floating above/behind your head and is not realistic, and the SAME people swear that if you put a cardboard box on your head in real life and cut a 6 square in the front of that, then you can go into action wearing that box and it imitates your screen view so it is more REALISTIC and therefore more IMMERSIVE than having full real human eyesight.

They really think that  looking out through a small slit to give yourself narrow NON-HUMAN limited vision is "realistic"  -  which is exactly as laughable as having your eyeballs floating over your head. 

But this is THE problem with fanatics - they CANT see how their DOGMA leads them blindly into utter rubbish.. Their religion tells them it MUST be TRUE so it IS TRUE and they cut their brains out  and come knocking at you door telling you all kinds of Crap or wearing explosive belts, etc.. Their message is DIRECT FROM THE ONE GOD - so NOT open to DISCUSSION of COURSE, and you're a HERETIC even before you open your mouth.

This is not "discussion" .

So an argument would be nice BUT we have had it 100 times before and it never gets anywhere because

as we all know

The only, SINGLE, eternal &  ONE TRUE GOD  is YOG-SOTHOTH the All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self, not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep.

And -  NOBODY can discuss THAT because I got it from the NECRONOMICON

And claiming the NECRONOMICON is "not" the ultimate ABSOLUTE truth is like going around with a cardboard box on your head.

xxP

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by pilgrim*
~ so that's sorted ~

[ImageCtrl 719]

On 10.7.2018 at 2:18 AM, fosty99 said:

I know this will probably never happen, but I wonder what the community would do.

They would play on private servers with third person view. For some of them it would be their first time where they survive on one server without serverhopping.

The first few weeks it would be a drama, after some time they would enjoy the private servers. New players would at least test first person only.

I believe the official hive should not have third person view. I believe the private servers should have more options without mods (death messages, global chat, third person view, high loot... I hate it all, but it is wanted).

In my opinion the official hive should have the illusion of "hardcore" (even the hive should be removed). The private servers should have more options (without mods, with the option of a hive).

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by ImageCtrl

[FunkInYourTrunk 354]

i cant believe how many times i have read this same topic.  how is it discussion worthy? removing it would be a poor business decision because of the people who like 3pp (i prefer first person) and the people with motion sickness.  besides it gives us a buffer.  it is where people who play strictly for pvp or people who want "the upper hand" all the time play.  if you take all the toxic players from 3pp and move them to hardcore it would probably take from the experience.  im not a fan of 3pp and dont play it but it would be silly for them to remove it imo.

 

alas.... here i am saying dumb things like 'how is this discussion worthy'........while taking part in the discussion.