Base building in hived servers after 0.63 release

[OscarBlindeye 2]

Hello, just wondering if base building will be encorperated in hived servers? If so won't players just be able to ghost inside of people's bases simply by switching servers?

[Mantasisg 172]

Beses are going to be weird at first

Edited August 28, 2017 by Mantasisg

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

Not sure if I'm really understanding here, why WOULDNT base building be in hived servers (Assuming it's out on the public servers)

[Pyongo Bongo 240]

I remember some super-old dev interviews where they kind of address this, I'm pretty sure they'll make ghosting impossible somehow,

I don't expect bases to be hard to breach though

[comikz 218]

I'm just hoping people don't build their bases like you see people doing in games like H1Z1 where popular roadways/cities ect. are just one huge clustering of bases making it ugly/impassable and taking away the natural flow and esthetics of the area.

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 29/08/2017 at 0:51 AM, Pyongo Bongo said:

I remember some super-old dev interviews where they kind of address this, I'm pretty sure they'll make ghosting impossible somehow,

I don't expect bases to be hard to breach though

Well  - they def can't be inpregnable while there are no occupants around. Logic. Otherwise some smart "person" would fill up the map with bases and then never use them.
So you have to be able to impregnate them.. or whatever you DO, er. they cant be 100% prophylactically efficient, is what I mean..  without an extra UID passcode for the owner

Then this game would get sooooo..  boringingly realistic. We'd have to shoot the damn capitalist landowners AGAIN

But on the other hand, if all this CONTINUAL RAIN is caused by global warming, at least we'd know who to BLAME.

- I'm just going to camp out in the maquis and pick em off as they come out the gates

xxpilgim

( ps - my mate Charlie asks, if they have bases can we have mortars, please? )

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

I remember Hicks saying that bases wouldn't be 100% safe from looting by other players.

[Karmicdebt 46]

meh just wait for modders to go off on it, I see plot poles and not being able to spawn in with in a certain number of meters

from em lol

[BeefBacon 1185]

5 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

So you have to be able to impregnate them.. or whatever you DO

[Mantasisg 172]

I wonder how bases will be possible to lock. It was mentioned that it will be possible to lock stuff. I wonder if it is going to be possible to break locks, will it be very hard. I hope it will be not possible or very hard to break locks.

BACKSEAT DEV ALERT:

I HOPE PLAYERS WILL HAVE MORE OR LESS UNIQUE KEYS FOR THE LOCKS, OR IT WILL TAKE SOME SERIOUS LOCK PICKING SKILLS. Imagine it being really hard to break the lock with lock pick, I'd love it.

[pilgrim* 3514]

14 minutes ago, Mantasisg said:

I wonder how bases will be possible to lock. ..//..
I HOPE PLAYERS WILL HAVE MORE OR LESS UNIQUE KEYS FOR THE LOCKS, OR IT WILL TAKE SOME SERIOUS LOCK PICKING SKILLS. Imagine it being really hard to break the lock with lock pick, I'd love it.

So .. this is not too realistic.. hmm?

EITHER the lock is linked to the players GUID.. so if he never comes back or leaves the game, the base stays locked forever?
Or else the base vanishes if the "owner"  doesn't use it for a month
- otherwise every big town will be full of useless bases set up by players-for-kicks, that no one can ever get in to?

OR the "lock" is a real DayZ object, so you can kill the player, then he has no lock for "his" base.
Or you loot & steal his lock. Then it's your base.

The "lock" is on some kind of "gate" right? - and inside there are tents, trucks, etc in a large space ?
Please don't tell me that IRL a deserted base with a "locked" front gate is IMPOSSIBLE to get into??

.. that only happens in Games about the Flintstones and Asian Teen Butterfly Games, ya know?

Dayz got no plastic explosives, bolt cutters, earth movers, crowbars, grappling hooks, ladders, sledge hammers, lock kickers, chainsaws? .. all THAT stuff is unrealistic ??
Aint NO BASE ever EXISTED you couldn't get into, unless someone inside is shooting at you. Who needs a "key" ??

xxP

 

[Mantasisg 172]

Listen, I'm not a fool (now fanboys are loughing because I'm not supporting current DayZ for), I understand what is realistic waht is not, or at least i think that i mostly do. But we are speaking about the game first of all, right ? Not some platform for sick people to have a real life replacement, so they can live a virtual life without leaving their house, or chair lol

The point is that the bases will be useless, you will have to stick to one server, you will guard them all the time. What will happen, basically, will be that some players will simply choose to play in low populated servers, just to lower the chance to get looted. Like if game wasn't sad already. Like a real survival lol 

You are bringing good points about servers being full of untouchable bases, also about locks being breakable IRL. Now those things are variable I think, and all could be done simply by a game designer. All he has to do is to make a game. And I think it is possible to make without breaking immersion, or making a joke out of the game.

To my mind there shouldn't be any unbreakable lock, some just should be more secure than others, should be harder to unlock them. Of course it is possible to break the lock if it is weak, maybe it is possible to break even best locks when having a good tools and time. I think that some locks should be challenging. Imagine you keep failing to unlock one with a lockpick because you are messing up somehow, so then you try to saw it off, but then it makes noise, you can be heard then and you can not hear whats happening around you because of noise, and sawing for something like five minutes. That would be intense. 

Now imagine you just find a base, you take your lockpick one two and you are in. Or you use a hammer saw or whatever few seconds and you are in.... Definitely disapointing for all parties.

Breaking into a bases through locked gates, or trying to open locked crates with good stuff should be challenging, almost frustrating in order to be rewarding.... To solve all the little things is what game designers and coders are doing. But they have to deliver something good. I'm just thinking out loud what would be good. Forgive me for that, I know internet is full of "loud thoughts". Most of them are garbage. My is not.

Regarding of key being a real physical object, I think it shouldn't. There would be next to no chance if you would loot someone at one side of the map, while the base would be in the opposite side for example. I think "the key" should be binded with the GUID, and perhaps should be possible to share it with others, in case multiple players would be building a base.....

Also to avoid the abuse, I think there should be different kinds of locks as the items, and the best ones should be rare. And should make a real challenge to break.

Game designers and coders will decide what they can and want to do. They most likely already has done that. Waiting for it :)

If not... then mods.... hopefully

 

Quote

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by Mantasisg

[Sqeezorz 839]

I agree with you now fully. Finding a base (if no one is inside) should be a real challenge. It is possible to use certain tools to break a gate / lock or wall. It can also be that a big hammer is not enough, maybe you need 2 or even 3. The closing of the base should be possible from the inside, or a code so that a clan has control. But every lock and door must be cracked with time and tools. the owner rights with the GUID is for a lot of reasons somewhat meaningless. Building a base is supposed to be a challenge and in the same breath also breaking a base. (not yet mentioned are the traps which can be combined with base parts in the future.

[sneakydude 480]

5 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

Listen, I'm not a fool

The point is that the bases will be useless, you will have to stick to one server,

 

Maybe locking the servers to 1 character per server. if official should be suggested.

Still think base building will be a problem for awhile until the devs listen to our Past Arma experiences with base building. We should not have to bring in other games, with base building issues.

 

[pilgrim* 3514]

9 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

Listen, I'm not a fool (now fanboys are loughing because I'm not supporting current DayZ for), I understand what is realistic waht is not, or at least i think that i mostly do. But we are speaking about the game first of all, right ? Not some platform for sick people to have a real life replacement, so they can live a virtual life without leaving their house, or chair lol
 ..//..
The point is that the bases will be useless, you will have to stick to one server, you will guard them all the time. What will happen, basically, will be that some players will simply choose to play in low populated servers, just to lower the chance to get looted. Like if game wasn't sad already. Like a real survival lol

Game designers and coders will decide what they can and want to do. They most likely already has done that. Waiting for it :)

If not... then mods.... hopefully
 

For a base, first you want a team = so this is a team play thing.

The difference between a base and a bunch of tents is you have walls round your base, walkways, towers, buildings or shacks inside, parking, trucks vehicles = and a way of getting all that stuff in and out - we saw the artists impressions already, right?

OK so to be perfectly clear there is NO WAY you can "lock" a base.
Look at a base in any game ...  OR.. LOOK at the real life USA bases in Afghansitan (on YouTube for instance)
The ONLY thing that secures tha base is FIREPOWER... aint nothing else.. that's all from 0% to 100% what a base is about.   

Let's cut the story SHORT :
Hey where I come from, here ever since before 500 BC - if you wanted to get into a fort, a base, a castle.. what you did was this ....  (all ears?)
You cut down a bloody pine tree and lop the branches off, then at night you lean it up against the wall or the gate or the watchtower and you CLIMB up it
We've been doing that for 2000+ years and it has worked, still works, will always work..maybe use more modern equipment if you want, but the stuff you've had around since 2000 years still works fine... use rope and a grapple if you like.. or just CLIMB, ya know.. - ice axe, hay hook, crampons (dry tool it, dude) - 

So THERE'S the truth - any fortified place CANT be defended except by DEFENDERS on DUTY. If it is empty it is Yours, no probs.

To EXPLAIN this, so you  SEE the point  -- how about putting locks on TENTS ??... -Im not even joking - Invulnerable Tents! -  that would be exactly as realistic.
(not realistic at ALL, but it's what you want?  - a GUID-linked personal code for YOUR loot stash so no-one else can touch it.

Now you've got an 'Invulnerable Lock' on the fire-base car-pool wire-mesh main gate entry?  AND/OR on your tent zip ?? [ = same thing, same realism ]  
So there's no point in hiding your base anymore (or your tents, whatever), right? Leave that stuff in the middle of Novo or NWA  and go off play on another server, collect some more LOOT for your invulnerable stockpile?   Or maybe just never come back??

Players shout "base building" !! They are full of excitement.

BUT this needs just a -LEeeeeeTTLE  MORE-  working out, first, know what I mean, dude?

Even a "fanboy" (your word)  spends 2/3 of his life NOT playing DayZ -  so his base is EMPTY 70% of the whole time. You expect the bad guys to show up when your gang's all hanging out in there eating barrels of apples & cleaning their AKs, or when NO ONE is there?  What time of day would would YOU show up?

On a private hive mono-clan whitelist server these ideas could work? - Maybe? (boring & plenty of arguments IMO)
 
On public hive, or the Official Servers?  =  No Way.  

- any practical suggestions? My family always climbed over the back of a defensive complex on a moonless night and cut everyone's throats - BUT then we had to remember not to get too drunk at the victory celebration, or the bloody surviving buffoons climbed over the back the next morning and cut everyone's throats... ( it's a kind of family tradition )

* * *
A base has a STRUCTURE - made of in-game elements.. bales, concrete, wood, gates, doors, towers, corrugated iron, ladders, walkways, barriers, fire posts, sandbags, generators, refrigerators, Hesco bastions, electric lighting, barbed wire, camo netting
ALL these things have to be in-game constructible AND destructible

and that is going to be a hell of a problem.
Any suggestions??

1 ) DayzTV suggestion - "probably a 'different game module' "

2 )

3 )

 

4 ) DayZ basebuilding prediction from May 2016 + BI artist impressions

 

                 ..eh.. ?

 

 

xxP

Edited September 5, 2017 by pilgrim*
~

[Mantasisg 172]

Much wisdom

too much

Of course there will be ways how to get into your precious base, of course there will be ways to open a crate with your precious loot. I'm just saying that it should be possible to make difficult to acomplish. You know ? Dude ? ...eh... ?

I just suggested how to reduce chances of being raided, while at the same time making raiding more interesting, and you are talking to me about climbing walls by using chopped down trees and tents not being lockable. Do you realise how far you are from my idea ? I was talking about apples, and you have started talking about oranges.

Good luck protecting your super important base for half of your productive day time for weeks, in a nearly empty server.


By the way I think that as Bases will be getting introduced, it will be sensible to play only in private servers. As ghosting will just simply kill public servers. If basebuilding will be important to players in the first place. One of the worse things which could happen would be tons of low populated servers, which is kinda an issue already IMO. 







 

[pilgrim* 3514]

2 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

Much wisdom

too much

Of course there will be ways how to get into your precious base, of course there will be ways to open a crate with your precious loot. I'm just saying that it should be possible to make difficult to acomplish. You know ? Dude ? ...eh... ?

I was wondering HOW you intend to make this "getting in/ locking out" of a whole complex "difficult to accomplish"?  A key linked to a player UID is a REALLY bad idea. I don't think its ever been considered by anyone sane - for a number of reasons. Ask around.

I don't use bases and don't intend to. They are not MY "precious". I am not excited about bases. They are in no way my bases, I am not/shall not be attracted to bases, except as a target location where enemy and loot concentrate..  I have an Afghan attitude to bases.

I can see a lot of tears and rants coming up when the implementation starts and the problems become obvious.
By nature I'm interested in solutions, it's my thing (pretty boring, hu?).  I like stuff that works, especially when it looks difficult to make it work. This is a game-play hobby, - problem solving - seeing the specific problems coming up while everyone else is STILL cheering.  I notice the practical problems  that are going to throw cr@p right in the fan.

 

Sorry I called you a dude - my bad - I guess you're not. 
I withdraw that insult unreservedly.  OK mate?

xxP

Edited September 5, 2017 by pilgrim*
~

[sneakydude 480]

Arma 3 exile, has laid out the ground work for protecting bases. Not 100% full proof as you can get in by cracking the locks, blowing holes in the side. Enough said guys. NO reason to rehash it.

<--- call me a dude all you want :)

[pilgrim* 3514]

1 hour ago, sneakydude said:

Arma 3 exile, has laid out the ground work for protecting bases. Not 100% full proof as you can get in by cracking the locks, blowing holes in the side. Enough said guys. NO reason to rehash it.

<--- call me a dude all you want :)

well - Mr,

Exile Mod = 150 shit-tons of heavy weapons, vehicles, traders, armored vehicles, mines, crates, ammo, helicopters, planes, rocket launchers, fast easy  base building,
all the stuff "NEEDED" to make Exile base breaking & fast kills work, everything on a plate, worthless, glitchy, superficial, & bases even look dumb-ugly .. it's a play for lols game .. another easy-easy-play no-attention no-think no-effort shooter mod ..   sooooo kid's game.
NOT any groundwork there for anything, no excuse. Exile is NOT a place for rehashing Dayz SA,  Exile just useful to throw away.
The DayZ devs are NOT thinking THAT way  <good grief>

[sneakydude 480]

41 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

well - Mr,

Exile Mod = 150 shit-tons of heavy weapons, vehicles, traders, armored vehicles, mines, crates, ammo, helicopters, planes, rocket launchers, fast easy  base building,
all the stuff "NEEDED" to make Exile base breaking & fast kills work, everything on a plate, worthless, glitchy, superficial, & bases even look dumb-ugly .. it's a play for lols game .. another easy-easy-play no-attention no-think no-effort shooter mod ..   sooooo kid's game.
NOT any groundwork there for anything, no excuse. Exile is NOT a place for rehashing Dayz SA,  Exile just useful to throw away.
The DayZ devs are NOT thinking THAT way  <good grief>

Someone sounds upset this morning. You do realize not every mod works perfectly? the point being exile made good use of base building over many other games. You can restrict the content assets like dayz sa to make it work the same way. If you lock a base up tight, it still can be broken into but rare since explosives will be hard to make, or will they? since we may have a crafting system. Exile also made perfect use of restricting bases from being built 500 m or more per territory. That system alone worked good for the ARK, Conan exiles over building of bases close by. The system allowed for flags to be captured.

It was just one system, but doesn't mean we can not mod in a system to break into bases, but restrict the users on the system they deliver. That's the point i am trying to make here.

Vanilla will be vanilla, and mods will be the rest of the game. So like i said no use rehashing what the devs say, its moot when modding comes out. It clearly only directs people to the vanilla dayz sa.

Edited September 5, 2017 by sneakydude

[pilgrim* 3514]

10 hours ago, sneakydude said:

That's the point i am trying to make here.

Me too...  exactly, so no argument except the examples you give are cr@p 

They won't work in DayZ unless you want DayZ to be a cross between Conan with explosives and "many other games"
I think it is the "many other games" that gives me the sh1ts..  sounds like Cholera..
Announcement: DayZ will be like MANY OTHER GAMES... And the FAN-BASE goes wild !!  .. Hail !! Hail !!  etc... the Devs wave, wearing red togas and crowned with Laurels...  
does nobody think there is something WRONG about that "many other games" line ?? ...
And DON'T answer please ,sneakydude, dude!! - We ALL (if there's anybody here)  already know YOU are happy about the Orthodox Standard Stuff that the kiddies collect by the dozens.  So why not add it in to DayZ??  Problem solved ! Another cr@p game ! Just what we WANT !

I was trying to point out what's WRONG with the standard solutions .. But if that's what you love.. then you and "seen-it-before standard game-play" were made in Heaven together.

May Happiness Forever & Love shine on you and find you lots of crates of BIG guns and fast ammo and millions of easy-build base kits and warplanes and score points and reputations and perhaps one day Conan will come play with you too and help you capture the flag?  ps 'Dude, you know any songs from 'Frozen'?

xxp .. byeee

 

[Edit] : this post is intended to be STRONGLY stated but not offensive. - look at the games catalogue
- all the games with "BASES" in them are 100%  = Games About BASES =

- there has to be a DIFFERENT solution here, and it is NOT obvious, else DayZ becomes  another of the 200   <FPS with BASES>

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by pilgrim*
~

[Sqeezorz 839]

I think that I will have only joy on the Vanilla version ..... im believing that it will be right there.

[emuthreat 2837]

Concerning hardened entry points and locks, I think an elegant solution can be realistically implemented in a fairly simple manner.  I will arbitrarily use 5 as a baseline for this system.  Sorry Pilgrim, I'm going to ignore grapples/ladders for the purpose of this discussion.

Firstly, we can have an assortment of gates in five different durability classes, each gate being allowed to take a lock one class above its quality/durability level.  Similarly for those actively defending from a siege, or having logged out inside their base, they can bolt the gate from inside with a bolt following the five rule.

The lowest tier gate when closed and latched from inside can be beaten down with an ax/sledgehammer/pickax within one minute; an interior crossbolt could add one more minute; and a lowest tier lock would add one more minute to the overall breach effort required.
This should make half as much noise as handgun shots, and kick up a fair amount of dust.  A player leaving their base alone while logged in would only be able to rely on a lock from the outside and the basic latch strength of the gate.

So a basic gate with a tier two lock would provide three minutes of brute force resistance.   A tier three gate with a tier four lock and a tier three bolt would have a cumulative brute force resistance of ten minutes.

A player with a pristine lockpick should take one minute per lock quality tier to silently remove a lock.  Ammunition and explosives could all be assigned a fractional tier value per round placed accurately on the lock; the same could go for explosives.
As a caveat, players who damage a lock before attempting to pick it will have sealed their fate as brute force entry methodists; to balance the possibility for abuse by base owners, only pristine locks will not degrade over time--say one status condition per day.

In this way, a player could use a grenade and a few shotgun blasts to degrade a tier five lock down to damaged condition, requiring two additional minutes of brute force to fully remove it.  Locks should never be removed by ammunition or explosives alone, unless expensive and rare breaching charges are used.

 

In the case that one has to share their base, it should be required of them to find a locksmith workshop to duplicate and share keys.  Keys should be outwardly recognizable by examining the style and cut profile. Pristine keys can be used with 100% accuracy in creating a duplicate.

A relatively simple combinatorics process can be used to differentiate between species of the 5 different classes of keys, with one "blank form" corresponding to each tier of lock strength.  Each blank would have five different spline profiles to determine if it can even be inserted into the lock in question.  And each spline profile would have five cuts along the length (or circumference for barrel-blank keys), each with five different variable for the depth of cut.  With this system, there would be 15,625 unique key cuts for each class of lock, which can all be visually inspected and possibly even duplicated by more skilled players in the case that you kill the owner of a base and closely examine his ruined key.  Ruined keys WILL NOT work in a key duplication machine, and rather will have to be correctly assessed visually, and the proper instructions will have to be given to the machine.  The player would have to haul a generator to a facility that has a key grinding machine (perhaps tier four and five locks will have only one or two of these capable machines on the entire map), and secure the area while they load in the correct type of blank.  The blank keys will come in the five different spline variants, of each of the five different classes, for a total of 25 different key blanks needed to represent one chance at making one key of each class for each spline profile.

 A player would then be tasked with identifying the class and spline profile of the blank they need to use, and then programming the machine to cut a value of 1-5 in each of the 5 pin positions; for a total of 3125 possible cut profiles.  This would make it extremely difficult to manufacture a key to fit the lock of a killed player with a ruined key, but you would literally be able to walk up and open the gate within seconds.

Thank you for your consideration.

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by emuthreat
sp

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

i think it prudent to see what it will be like when it comes in beta.

[sneakydude 480]

On 9/5/2017 at 9:16 AM, pilgrim* said:

Me too...  exactly, so no argument except the examples you give are cr@p 

They won't work in DayZ unless you want DayZ to be a cross between Conan with explosives and "many other games"
I think it is the "many other games" that gives me the sh1ts..  sounds like Cholera..
Announcement: DayZ will be like MANY OTHER GAMES... And the FAN-BASE goes wild !!  .. Hail !! Hail !!  etc... the Devs wave, wearing red togas and crowned with Laurels...  
does nobody think there is something WRONG about that "many other games" line ?? ...
And DON'T answer please ,sneakydude, dude!! - We ALL (if there's anybody here)  already know YOU are happy about the Orthodox Standard Stuff that the kiddies collect by the dozens.  So why not add it in to DayZ??  Problem solved ! Another cr@p game ! Just what we WANT !

I was trying to point out what's WRONG with the standard solutions .. But if that's what you love.. then you and "seen-it-before standard game-play" were made in Heaven together.

May Happiness Forever & Love shine on you and find you lots of crates of BIG guns and fast ammo and millions of easy-build base kits and warplanes and score points and reputations and perhaps one day Conan will come play with you too and help you capture the flag?  ps 'Dude, you know any songs from 'Frozen'?

xxp .. byeee

 

[Edit] : this post is intended to be STRONGLY stated but not offensive. - look at the games catalogue
- all the games with "BASES" in them are 100%  = Games About BASES =

- there has to be a DIFFERENT solution here, and it is NOT obvious, else DayZ becomes  another of the 200   <FPS with BASES>

 

Very random points, and very hard to follow.

 

I don't want arma 3 exile ideas completely delivered to dayz sa. Where did you get that from? I am just saying if you are able to find an explosive to break into a base then why not. If handcrafting of items, and i mean hard crafted can create an explosive to break down a gate no reason to not allow that type of game play. This is all on a custom server. It doesn't ruin dayz SA.

 

I do agree not having 1000 explosives crafted like conan exiles and ark are needed in dayz sa., I completely agree with that. But like is said modders will do what they can to make their servers excel the game. Which dayz sa was first incited from.

Otherwise plz

Have a normal topic discussion or don't bother at all. Explain yourself better please because i probably missed half of your suggestions.