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[Daricles 22]

BeefBacon, I hope you are right.  I played the game for a while back in 2014 and thought "this is pretty cool.  It still needs a lot of work, but it's a great concept and has a lot of potential."  Having seen what there was to see at the time I left.

Three years later I thought "hey, remember that DayZ game?  It was pretty cool.  It has been a few years, I wonder if it's ready for prime time yet."  I logged in and played for a couple weeks.  At first glance I thought "it looks better."  It was nothing but disappointment after that.

Hmm.  Kiwis still show up as grey squares?  That's surprising.  Hmm.  Zombies still have rudimentary ai and animations? That's surprising.  Hmm.  Crawling Zombies still push me around the map?  That's surprising.  Hmm.  Items in my inventory still sometimes leave ghosts behind that occupy slots after I drop them?  That's surprising.  Hmm, I clipped through a wall and fell to my death?  That's troubling.  Hmm.  That zombie clipped through a wall and killed me.  That is troubling.  Hmm.  I can't pick up any items and have to restart the game?  That is worrisome.  Hmm,  I just tried to interact with that trash pile and the game crashed.  That is very troubling.

Delivering graphics upgrades when the game is still riddled with clipping errors and crash bugs is just putting lipstick on a pig.  If this demo were released as a proof of concept demo four years ago I would be thrilled.  After this long in development, I'm just disappointed.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Daricles

[-Gews- 7443]

9 hours ago, Espa said:

New controls :) 

Heh. A lot of rebinding there!

[Daricles 22]

Biohaze, only BI can decide what is acceptable in terms of progress.  They are the ones sinking their time and money into the project.  I only commented that I am disappointed that the game still had many of the same problems it did when I first tried it out back in 2014 and was worried that the project is exhibiting some of the same telltale signs of trouble that I've seen in many projects that ultimately failed.

I like DayZ.  It is a great concept and has some engaging gameplay elements, but it is plagued by some longstanding problems and has been in development for a very long time.  Close to five years despite your claims to the contrary.  I hope it succeeds, but there are potential signs of trouble that indicate it might not.

No, I won't want my money back if the project fails.  I'll just be disappointed that a potentially great game never made it to market.  It wouldn't be the first or last game to have that happen.  I understand what early access means and feel I've got my money's worth out of what I paid for the privelige of playing with their development builds.  With my expectations tempered by that understanding, I have enjoyed many hours playing with what they have been able to deliver.  That doesn't mean the development is going along just fine without any problems.  Only that BI has fulfilled their limited obligation to give me access to their development builds for purposes of evaluation and feedback and I've had some fun in the process.  Which is all I expected.

That doesn't mean I can't say that I'm disappointed the game isn't further along by now or that I won't be surprised if it never makes it to market.  If anything, I'll be pleasantly surprised when (hopefully) it does make it to market and even thrilled if it happens any time soon.

I don't care what modding might bring to the table, that's not my cup of tea.

I know nothing of furlongs.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Daricles

[emuthreat 2837]

30 minutes ago, Daricles said:

BeefBacon, I hope you are right.  I played the game for a while back in 2014 and thought "this is pretty cool.  It still needs a lot of work, but it's a great concept and has a lot of potential."  Having seen what there was to see at the time I left.

Three years later I thought "hey, remember that DayZ game?  It was pretty cool.  It has been a few years, I wonder if it's ready for prime time yet."  I logged in and played for a couple weeks.  At first glance I thought "it looks better."  It was nothing but disappointment after that.

Hmm.  Kiwis still show up as grey squares?  That's surprising.  Hmm.  Zombies still have rudimentary ai and animations? That's surprising.  Hmm.  Crawling Zombies still push me around the map?  That's surprising.  Hmm.  Items in my inventory still sometimes leave ghosts behind that occupy slots after I drop them?  That's surprising.  Hmm, I clipped through a wall and fell to my death?  That's troubling.  Hmm.  That zombie clipped through a wall and killed me.  That is troubling.  Hmm.  I can't pick up any items and have to restart the game?  That is worrisome.  Hmm,  I just tried to interact with that trash pile and the game crashed.  That is very troubling.

Delivering graphics upgrades when the game is still riddled with clipping errors and crash bugs is just putting lipstick on a pig.  If this demo were released as a proof of concept demo four years ago I would be thrilled.  After this long in development, I'm just disappointed.

I think you might be taking a lot of this out of context.  The current build is the most advanced they can manage without the new underlying technology.  In a sense, it is all putting lipstick on a pig, just so we have a pretty pig to play with while they finish creating the new engine.

Many of the things that you mentioned are the reason that they decided to build a new engine. It was an application of the law of diminishing returns.
Everything they could have done to address those problems would have added unnecessary complexity, and severely impacted resource consumption and server performance.

The .62 patch is held together with duct tape and wire, just so we still have something to play; and likely so they can do large scale testing on the CLE and vehicles.  .62 might be the most complex build that they have released, but it is nowhere near the smoothest.

In beta we trust.

Edited August 24, 2017 by emuthreat
that'll do pig, that'll do

[Daricles 22]

Emuthreat, I hope you are right.  

If beta does address all these things or even some of them that would be great.  However, the demo video doesn't showcase those improvements.  

I still see a lot of the same problems on display in the video with a new inventory management system layered on top.

[emuthreat 2837]

2 minutes ago, Daricles said:

Emuthreat, I hope you are right.  

If beta does address all these things or even some of them that would be great.  However, the demo video doesn't showcase those improvements.  

I still see a lot of the same problems on display in the video with a new inventory management system layered on top.

Well, I know that the dev team made this engine with DayZ in mind, and that they are aware of all these issues.  That is enough for me to have faith in their ability to put together an awesome game in the relatively near future.

[BeefBacon 1185]

1 hour ago, Daricles said:

I still see a lot of the same problems on display in the video with a new inventory management system layered on top.

Well, let's see what 0.63's new tech will, or should, fix.

2 hours ago, Daricles said:

Kiwis still show up as grey squares?

I played tonight. My interest in DayZ picked up over the last week or so. Found several kiwis, and they all showed up just fine.

2 hours ago, Daricles said:

Zombies still have rudimentary ai and animations?

They'll eventually be able to knock down doors, amongst other things, but besides the navmesh a while back, and the ability to vault over objects, zombies have barely been touched. Given that they want more zombies on the server, however, it stands to reason that they intend to make changes to the way they behave.

2 hours ago, Daricles said:

Crawling Zombies still push me around the map?

I suspect this will be addressed by the player controller which affects all aspects of player movement. 

2 hours ago, Daricles said:

Items in my inventory still sometimes leave ghosts behind that occupy slots after I drop them?

The new inventory system that you mentioned should address this.

2 hours ago, Daricles said:

Hmm, I clipped through a wall and fell to my death?

Player controller.

2 hours ago, Daricles said:

That zombie clipped through a wall and killed me

I, personally, haven't seen zombies clip through walls for a very long time indeed. Doors, occasionally, but that's usually a lag issue rather than anything else. Netcode is a problem in DayZ, but we know that's something they're working on in preparation for 100-player servers and more zombies. I don't know if netcode changes are coming in 0.63, but we shall see.

2 hours ago, Daricles said:

I can't pick up any items and have to restart the game?

Sounds like either a netcode or an inventory system. Probably the latter. See 0.63

2 hours ago, Daricles said:

 I just tried to interact with that trash pile and the game crashed

I didn't know you could interact with trash. I guess my only answer to that is that games crash sometimes.

3 hours ago, Daricles said:

Delivering graphics upgrades when the game is still riddled with clipping errors and crash bugs is just putting lipstick on a pig.

Which is why they're putting together the new engine. Without the graphics upgrade, it'd just be a pig without the lipstick. They're getting rid of the pig, and replacing it with Karen Gillan. Bear in mind that it wasn't just a graphics upgrade, it was also a performance upgrade. Given that Arma games tend to run like shit regardless of your setup, the performance boost is much more relevant. The graphics upgrade is just a nice perk. It's still not fully there yet - you'll be lucky to break 40fps in Novo - but it's a lot better than it was, and that's without extra optimisation passes.

In short, 0.63 should fix most of the problems you're having. Game development isn't so straightforward. Try to develop a game at the same time as you're developing the engine for that game, and things can get pretty messy. You could argue that DayZ's development process could have been better - there's a lot that they've done wrong, but there's a lot that they've done right too. Hindsight is 20/20.

In an alternate reality, there's a DayZ that was released in 2015. It was shit.

[Daricles 22]

Kiwis that show up in slain Dean Zombie inventories often appear as a grey square.  You can drag the grey square from the slain Dean zombie to your own inventory and it changes back into a kiwi.  It has been that way since at least 2014.

With regards to zombies, the biggest change I'm hoping for is for them to aggro on the location where you fire a weapon and not telepathically lock onto your character.

I have frequently had zombies clip through walls, tents and concrete barriers to attack me.

You actually can't interact with trash piles.  However, it had been so long since I last played that I forgot that.  As soon as the game crashed when I tried I instantly remembered that the game used to crash back in 2014 when you did that and was frustrated that it was still a problem.

Looking back through older status reports I see that many of the same problems were going to be addressed in upcoming patches as far back as 2015.  Your optimism is earnest but perhaps misplaced.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I think the short answer here is that all of the legacy bugs you're most concerned with had to wait for the new renderer and the modules being merged before they got fixed.

We all have our pet bugs and glitches but we don't have the same perspective on priorities that the devs have, and at some point you have to try to trust them that it will get done and stay engaged with the process, or walk away from DayZ for a while and maybe return later once more bugs are squashed. 

 

[Daricles 22]

How much later?  I waited three years before checking back in last time and the state of the game is largely unchanged in that time.  I think a little healthy skepticism is reasonable.

[WOLFGEIST 122]

15 hours ago, GaryWalnuts said:

I noticed this too, releasing the button seems to stop the animation.  So no more cancel current action with animations being interruptible.  I'm hopeful this is for all animations, reloading and especially bandaging/medical.    

Doesn't only stop the animation. The animation and the action are tied together. So, if you take 3 bites and stop, you've still taken 3 bites. If you load 3 rounds into a mag and stop, you've still loaded 3 rounds.

[WOLFGEIST 122]

15 hours ago, Espa said:

At 6:50, does he say TWO months. . Or Few months? Seems to have a date for .63?

I think he actually said "3 months"... he probably let it slip :)

[WOLFGEIST 122]

12 hours ago, BeefBacon said:

You're a star.

Something that I didn't notice before - rags now take up four slots instead of one, but bandages only take up one. I wonder if that's how they're going to balance bandages against rags since rags, currently, are objectively better. I'm also wondring if they'll include the need to sterilise rags as well, or else face the risk of infection. I guess we'll see in [REDACTED] when 0.63 is released.

The "resolution" of the inventory is higher overall. Each container has more slots. Some items have gotten bigger, very small items remain 1 slot. I think in the end you will be able to carry roughly the same but you can carry many more very small items.

[WOLFGEIST 122]

9 hours ago, Daricles said:

You can almost guarantee you are looking at something like a 2 year setback. 

You're 100% correct. Original beta was set to launch in 2015. It is now 2017. 

[WOLFGEIST 122]

7 hours ago, Daricles said:

If you want to be BI's biggest cheerleader go right ahead.

I think the biggest problem with your criticisms such as the bugs in the demo, kiwis being grey, zombies not aggroing perfectly, etc, is that those examples all miss the biggest, most important point. For one, all of the examples of issues in .62 and everything before it are moot. They've been building the new engine for years. Do you read the status reports? They've replaced SQF script with Enforce... This alone is a massive, monumental feat. Enforce is many, many times faster than SQL. What does this mean? Well, for one, it means they have a much higher server bandwidth to operate within. They can implement helicopters without crippling desync, they can enable 100 player servers. 

YES, of course there are bugs in the demo... It is just that, a DEMO of the FIRST BUILD of DayZ on a brand new engine. The most important point is that the technology - the engine - is in place now. It's all downhill from here. All of the people who've been laboring on the engine for the last 2+ years are now able to work on the GAME. 

I understand your worries and frustration but my man, it's all gravy from here. From here on out it's a matter of adding models, sounds, fine tuning the scripts, optimizing things, and squashing bugs. Yes, those other games seem to have lightning fast development compared to DayZ. There is a very good reason for this - they started with complete engines! DayZ now has a complete engine, and not only that, it's a CUSTOM engine built for DayZ specifically! Now is not the time to be pessimistic and worried. They already have all of the models, sounds, and textures ready to go! Not to mention the largest, most beautiful, and most realistic map in the genre! 

You imply that you're pessimistic but ready to be happily surprised. Now is not the time to be pessimistic, but I believe you will be very happily surprised.

Take care.

[Seitan 161]

Nice pics and vids from camescom. ^^ I quess the moderators are also at CameCom.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Seitan

[EZann 8]

13 hours ago, BeefBacon said:

Zombie AI and pathfinding is now greatly improved - remember when they couldn't even go through doorways or upstairs, and they just walked through buildings like they weren't there? 

Yeah thats great, a year back zombie AI was worse than in Half Life (1), now its improved but still crappy, in two years zombies might even be able to open doors. Thats really fantastic.

[EZann 8]

9 hours ago, BeefBacon said:

 

In short, 0.63 should fix most of the problems you're having. Game development isn't so straightforward. 

 

So what will you say in case it does not fix many, or even any of those? I think that is at least a real possibility. And I am quite sure then many people will just write exactly those kind of sentences but replace 0.63 with 0.64, as has happened many times before....

[Girth Brooks 570]

I know all the youngbloods here are extremely impatient. The next Arma game will be using the Enfusion engine and all the tech that Dayz is currently prototyping. The tech in Dayz  will be used in all of bohemia shooter games for the foreseeable future. So Arma 4 is going to use it and it needs to be right before Bohemia decides to release any games with it. 

This technology isn't just for DayZ, it is for ALL of bohemia Interactive. 

Let them do their jobs. There is plenty of salt on Reddit if you want to go hang out with those mongoloids.

[Espa 711]

Hopefully some good info will come out today ^_^ 

Compliments of @Wolfgeist on Reddit, summarizing some of the awesome changes.

• They said apples and stones are spawning on the ground, and aren't unlimited.
• the new melee system automatically detects entities in your proximity, not sure if this means a soft "lock on" mechanism or what exactly.
• Eugen said you will see the character holding the mag and you can see every round being loaded, on a revolver you can see the exact amount in the wheel, pretty cool!
• The stamina bar isn't linear: it will replenish slower the lower it is, meaning you don't want to let yourself get totally exhausted.
• You can place a generator using the precise placement system and connect it to an electrified fence.
• There is now a belt slot, hopefully we get belt holsters and knife sheaths!
• The "resolution" of the inventory has increased meaning there's many more slots in each container, some items will become smaller or bigger generally meaning you will be able to carry more very small items than before.
• Many functions such as crafting, first aid, etc will function from the quick bar.
• Sound will be affected by walls so zombies will be less likely to hear you through a wall.
• we will be able to distract zombies with objects thrown.
• The contents of our stomach will be more realistically simulated including digestion, etc. Maybe your belly will stick out a bit of you're full?

[IMT 3190]

People let's stop feeding the trolls. I don't want this beautiful topic to get locked because of dem trolls.

[BeefBacon 1185]

21 minutes ago, EZann said:

So what will you say in case it does not fix many, or even any of those? I think that is at least a real possibility. And I am quite sure then many people will just write exactly those kind of sentences but replace 0.63 with 0.64, as has happened many times before....

I don't believe anybody has said that any previous version of DayZ will fix everything. What we have said is "0.60 will really improve the performance!" and it did. "0.61 will really improve the audio!" and it did. 0.63 represents the beta milestone. It's a big update with features that have been talked about in status reports for years.

It's possible, even probable, that the new player controller will come with its own set of bugs and issues. The difference is, however, that these bugs can then be squashed because they are no longer working with legacy tech. They've not bothered with bugfixing before because it'd be a waste of time, since everything was going to be replaced anyway.

13 hours ago, IMT said:

Let's not waste this topic on the trolls.

I don't know if they're trolls, but I do agree.

Who's got more Gamescom pics?

[Espa 711]

 

[Pyongo Bongo 240]

woooowowowowo hypeeeeeepepep

[Daricles 22]

Well, I'm convinced of this:  This next release is a pivotal make or break moment in the development of the game.  

Either the new engine will open the floodgates and the bug fixes and features will start flowing at a steady pace over the next few months or they won't and the devs will wind up treading over the same ground again yielding the same disappointing results in a new engine.

I've seen both outcomes from projects that started over with new architecture in the past.  However, as I said before, I've seen more failures than success stories after that reset button was pushed.  It has been about 2 years since Dayz hit the reset, so now seems about right for the moment of truth to occur.

Here's to hoping Dayz beats the odds, overcomes the difficult setbacks of starting over, and goes on to become a spectacular success.

I guess that BI does have one thing going in their favor that most projects that I have seen fail after starting over didn't have:  Deep pockets.  BI did make a crap ton of early access sales back in the day and the project shouldn't be in danger from lack of funding unless they have terribly mismanaged their finances or diverted the money to other projects.  That could very well make the difference in the project's success.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Daricles