CR 550: Discussion

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

I wanted to start doing some threads covering content/features for the Beta milestone, and I thought we could kick it off with something simple - specifically for this one, the CR 550 rifle.

As some of you might be aware, this has been posted to our Trello weeks back, and is one of the new firearms that we should see in our Beta milestone.

So ask away - what questions do you have regarding the CR 550? What are your thoughts or hopes regarding this specific weapon?
I'll check back each morning and try and field as many of them as I'm able!

[Nebulae3 422]

It`s an interesting question @Hicks_206 (DayZ). Personally, I think most have different opinions on weapons in general in Dayz SA, and CR 550, or Carbin in that regard is a powerful backup sniper weapon for me who can hit zombies at over 800 + meter range with great accuracy and u can paint it with cammo colour which also help compare to Winchester bolt rifle which is my main sniper rifle at the moment.

I know SVD and VSS are modern military sniper rifles, but both are limited to relative short to medium range with their current scope setting. If the dev. team want a military weapon to be deadly about the same long range as the CR 550 Carbine - you need a completely new tech military scopes for long range purpose in the Dayz SA which I hope, because both Carbine and Winchester rifles are really old weapons compare to modern military sniper rifles with new scopes for 1000 + meter range combat. I hope the dev. team will add a new military long range scope in the future which can be used on modern military snipe rifles like SVD and VSS! :)

 

A brief experimental update not on topic, but maybe a bug: The exp. servers seems more stable now with the last update well done, no crashes for me, except some memory crash bugs when I exit a server after a brief play session! 

The minor bug is the chest holster which doesn`t fit a glock with a weapon flashlight - I don`t know where to report this since experimental topic was closed. (And I`m not sure if this is intended or not.)

Edited December 6, 2016 by ori42

[ZomboCZ 9]

What was the reasoning behind the decision to add another bolt-action rifle? For the variability of civilian weapons, or because it's an iconic piece from the Mod? I welcome it either way.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Is there some story why CZ rifles are called CR? Or is it just licensing thing? Can we get any info what the CR means? I'd guess something like "Centerfire Rifles" or "Czech Rifles" or even more in the lore "Chernarussian Rifles".

[igor-vk 909]

Am I wrong or this rifle will be the same as Winchester 70 except for detachable magazines? I doubt it will use new type of ammo. Anyway, Id rather have weapons like that than SAW.

[Gobbokirk 546]

First of, give the guys who made it a pat on the back, looks amazing as always.

Questions:

- New ammo or using existing? (I guess I could answer this if I knew much about weapons)
- Any scope plans? Thinking along the lines of advanced crafting.
 

[hemtek 53]

Hello ! 

I love that you add more civilian weapons because I prefer civilian than military one !

I have some quetion:

Which ammo this gun gonna use ?

the pro and cons between this gun and the cr527 ?

another question a bit offtopic sorry:

Is the izh 18 will gonna have a scope attachable on it ? (like pistol scope of hunting scope) there is a rail on it so it should be possible !

thank you

bye !

[Espa 711]

Oooh, pretty rifle! Will this come as a variance of a Winchester in terms of ammo/scope, or will this be more closely related to the Mosin?

Also, in terms of audio quality, will its' shot be very distinctive that a player will pick up on its sound and know right away it was this gun? :D 

Last question, how rare or common will this gun be? Am I correct in assuming that there will end up being far more civilian weapons running around in relation to military?

Thanks for all the hard work! Can't wait till we can see more of .62!

[Andy Thirkill 0]

Any New weapons are welcome in Dayz, will you consider looking at attaching bipods to some of the sniper rifles?

 

[therunningmanz 255]

Is the round in that mag the same as the mosin round? It sure looks like it. Will this take the long range scope or any scope at all?

 

Second slightly unrelated question. The accuracy between something like a Winchester and the Carbine seem wildly different. Is this intended? I understand why the Sporter and Trumpet wouldn't range to say 400m and be accurate at that distance with an LR scope, you kinda have to over range them. But personally i've found the Carbine (cr527) to be horribly inaccurate even at ranges of around 300m. It doesn't seem to shoot straight like a Winny or Blaze would do. Will this be changed or is it meant to be less accurate?

Edited December 6, 2016 by therunningmanz

[OliverPlotTwist 458]

Two quick questions:

How much ammo do the different magazines take?

Are we going to be able to spray paint this gun?

[TikTactical 61]

Beautiful looking rifle, that. All-in-all a general "specifications chart" so to speak for the weapon would be great like: ammo type, mag size, rarity/availability, "supported" attachments, effective range etc.

Second question(perhaps not completely related): Weapons like the Scout, is planned for DayZ. I was thinking about different "military grade" sniper rifles? Is there plans on adding a NATO (for example) sniper rifle that supports extreme long range sniping? Perhaps a new "top-of-the-line" round such as the .338? Or do you guys think you have reached the "top" in how powerful you want the rounds to be? I understand it might not be a question that can be answered as of right now, but is it something that has been talked about? 

[Nebulae3 422]

I thought it was the carbine weapon, lol. It looks almost the same. I guess u can equip a long range scope on it. :)

 

[TikTactical 61]

4 minutes ago, ori42 said:

I thought it was the carbine weapon, lol. It looks almost the same. I guess u can equip a long range scope on it. :)

 

It is a carbine, it's just the model 550 rather than the model 527 that is in the game right now :)

[Nebulae3 422]

21 minutes ago, therunningmanz said:

Is the round in that mag the same as the mosin round? It sure looks like it. Will this take the long range scope or any scope at all?

 

Second slightly unrelated question. The accuracy between something like a Winchester and the Carbine seem wildly different. Is this intended? I understand why the Sporter and Trumpet wouldn't range to say 400m and be accurate at that distance with an LR scope, you kinda have to over range them. But personally i've found the Carbine (cr527) to be horribly inaccurate even at ranges of around 300m. It doesn't seem to shoot straight like a Winny or Blaze would do. Will this be changed or is it meant to be less accurate?

Woah, really? :)

I prefer the blaze or winchester too, but my Carbine is usually accurate at 700 + meters at least - do u use hold breath by the way? The natural weapon sway could be the different on a hit or miss shot at long range though. ))    

[Blafirelli 39]

Cool. The rifle is being made in wide range of calibers IRL, are different caliber variants planned to be included in the game as well?

(I just realized the question is probably applicable to firearms in general and therefore might have been already answered elsewhere, in such case please ignore me :))

Edited December 6, 2016 by Blafirelli

[Nebulae3 422]

27 minutes ago, TikTactical said:

Beautiful looking rifle, that. All-in-all a general "specifications chart" so to speak for the weapon would be great like: ammo type, mag size, rarity/availability, "supported" attachments, effective range etc.

Second question(perhaps not completely related): Weapons like the Scout, is planned for DayZ. I was thinking about different "military grade" sniper rifles? Is there plans on adding a NATO (for example) sniper rifle that supports extreme long range sniping? Perhaps a new "top-of-the-line" round such as the .338? Or do you guys think you have reached the "top" in how powerful you want the rounds to be? I understand it might not be a question that can be answered as of right now, but is it something that has been talked about? 

Yes, we need a long range military scope - all modern weapon in this game is limited to short and medium range only. I feel like an old farmer Joe from World war 1 sniping the NW Airfield sometimes with a wnchester or blaze, lol. :)

It`s an own kind of charm with old civil weapons, but it would be great with a modern weapon long range scope upgrade in the future for military sniper rifles. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by ori42

[gekker 13]

Since its another Civilian Bolt Action Rifle I really hope it stands out in some way from the other weapons of its kind.

I would love to get more info on the devs intentions for this one like ammo type, attachable scopes (nothing tops the Hunting Scope right now).

A quick research gave me the impression its gonna be another .308 rifle with pretty much the same capabilities as the Winchester. With the only difference being that it needs a 5 round magazine. Which makes it more difficult to assemble but in turn increases reload speed I assume. Some differences in accuracy an recoil hopefully.

 

I believe there is a NATO sniper with RIS attachments comming (Scout) which I am happy about because it will stand out a lot from the other Sniper Rifles available. I would like the CR 550 to be unique in a same way. So either a different ammo type or other attachment capabilities. New scopes always excite me :).

Also I am unsure how excately the rifles in the game affect the damage capacities of the ammo types. I learned that the damage dealt by a bullet is determined by the calliber and speed. Does DayZ take barrel lenght into account? Meaning, do different barrel lenghts affect the initial speed of the same calliber and therefore have an influence of the damage at the same ranges? If so, you could make the 550 stand out a bit more from the winchester that way.

[Nebulae3 422]

I really hope so @gekker - I`m looking forward to that for sure (new weapon attachment + weapon to the end game content is great in my opinion an unique to the game.) 

What we don`t need is another DMR type of weapon like in the old dayz Arma II mod. - it`s too powerful with little to no recoil and semi automatic. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by ori42

[jedimfp 231]

CZ550 is nice!  i have another question,where is clasics Czechoslovakian weapon VZ58 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QemYI_aWWvM

this beauty missing  

[RobCoxxy 52]

Hey @Hicks_206 (DayZ),

Looking forward to getting my hands on an old favourite again.
Quick question regarding attachments for rifles: are there going to be different types of telescopic sights for rifles like the Winchester/CR 550? I know we have the Hunting Scope currently, but are there any plans for different types, with different reticles (Mod's CZ550, or glow sights for example) and levels of zoom?

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

I suppose I have the same questions as everyone else (caliber, attachements, ect), plus one I think no one's asked yet.  Since this is available in so many calibers, is there going to be just one CR 550, or will there be different variants?  IE a .308 version, and a 7.62x54r, or even a version for a round that's not in yet like .300WM or .30-06SPG?  Or will this be the start of being able to convert a weapon to fire different rounds?  IE with the right tools/parts and a 'crafting table' you can covert a .308 CR550 into a 7.62x54 CR550?

7 hours ago, St. Jimmy said:

Is there some story why CZ rifles are called CR? Or is it just licensing thing? Can we get any info what the CR means? I'd guess something like "Centerfire Rifles" or "Czech Rifles" or even more in the lore "Chernarussian Rifles".

CR is sort of a play on words of the CZ brand from which the weapons are modeled from, Česká zbrojovka, but supposedly made in Chernarus instead.  It's probably also one of those legal things they need to do in order to have the gun in their game, copyright and all that.

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't have many thoughts about the weapon itself. It's a fairly simple, commonplace weapon so there is not much to say about the mechanics of the CZ550 that will be relevant to the game.

I'm glad that it was added, because I like to see an 'authentic' assortment of civilian weapons, which means having more than one rifle in this specific class (whereas some would question whether multiple similar weapons should be added).

 

My thoughts are more on the attachments for this weapon, particularly optics. As some above have said, I would like to see more scopes, particularly civilian models with unique properties... and with correctly-scaled reticles, correct magnifications, etc. A new scope essentially creates a new weapon variant. For example, in addition to the regular 'hunting scope' there could be scopes like the following, among others:

-1-4x24 variable (for short-range battue hunt)
-fixed-power 8x56
-precision scope with a mil dot reticle, such as Premier M8541A (military loot)
 

Etc.

 

Speaking of scopes, I would also like to see the current hunting scope fixed. It has incorrect magnification (only max 8.3x instead of 4-12x), incorrect reticle dimensions (the black bars are far too thick, and the opening between them for the intersecting thin lines is far, far too wide—proper dimensions are available from Zeiss), and also incorrect 'zeroing' (this scope only has 42 MOA of internal elevation adjustment, which means it should only be able to 'zero' to a maximum of 600 m with a .308—further is where a proper long-range precision optic could enter the picture). I don't think any of the three items above have been changed since December 2013 and the 'Long Range Scope', so I assume they are still placeholders. 

I made this mockup a couple years ago. The 'hunting scope' didn't exist at that point, so the dimensions are based on a different magnification, but it still gives an idea of how the reticle on this scope should look.

 

Current reticle—incorrect dimensions, only faint resemblance to real reticle(s)

 

'Fixed' realistic reticle (these dimensions are based on outdated 2014 specs for long range scope and character FOV)

 

11 hours ago, therunningmanz said:

Second slightly unrelated question. The accuracy between something like a Winchester and the Carbine seem wildly different. Is this intended? I understand why the Sporter and Trumpet wouldn't range to say 400m and be accurate at that distance with an LR scope, you kinda have to over range them. But personally i've found the Carbine (cr527) to be horribly inaccurate even at ranges of around 300m. It doesn't seem to shoot straight like a Winny or Blaze would do. Will this be changed or is it meant to be less accurate?

The dispersion is:

CR527: 0.0015
Winchester: 0.001

and the hunting scope adds -0.00025.

That comes out to 4.3 MOA for the carbine, and 2.6 MOA for the Model 70. With proper aim, a guaranteed hit on a torso-sized target to approximately 300 m with the carbine, and 500 m with the Model 70 (scoped).

11 hours ago, OliverPlotTwist said:

How much ammo do the different magazines take?

In real life, 4 and 10 round magazine (.308).

10 hours ago, ori42 said:

What we don`t need is another DMR type of weapon like in the old dayz Arma II mod. - it`s too powerful with little to no recoil and semi automatic. 

I think we should have one, because one of the standard USMC sniper rifles (who seem to be a backstory faction) is the M110, which is pretty much what you describe. This is the 21st century. I don't see an issue, because we already have a couple similar weapons, and even with a fancy rifle they still go down if you can get a solid hit in.

10 hours ago, gekker said:

I believe there is a NATO sniper with RIS attachments comming (Scout) which I am happy about because it will stand out a lot from the other Sniper Rifles available. I would like the CR 550 to be unique in a same way. So either a different ammo type or other attachment capabilities. New scopes always excite me :).

The Steyr Scout is a civilian rifle. Maybe plausible for a police sniper rifle (short range operations) although there are many more logical choices for that. It was designed as a jack-of-all-trades weapon based on Jeff Cooper's 'scout' concept. Hence the common long eye-relief scopes for fast target acquisition. I believe in-game version will be .223/5.56.

NOTE: unless it comes with its own scope for this purpose, the in-game Steyr Scout should have the scope mounted conventionally, at the rear of the receiver! Long-eye relief, forward mount doesn't work very well when you don't have a long-eye relief scope, hehe. Though the pistol scope could work for that, as it is designed to be used further from the eye.

10 hours ago, gekker said:

Also I am unsure how excately the rifles in the game affect the damage capacities of the ammo types. I learned that the damage dealt by a bullet is determined by the calliber and speed. Does DayZ take barrel lenght into account? Meaning, do different barrel lenghts affect the initial speed of the same calliber and therefore have an influence of the damage at the same ranges? If so, you could make the 550 stand out a bit more from the winchester that way.

The initial speed, since 0.59, is determined by the ammunition type.

Previously the initial speed was determined by the magazine type (IIRC, once upon a time, AUG magazine = more speed than, and if things work as suspected, more damage than STANAG magazine).

The Model 70 (Alaskan...) has a 25-inch / 63.5 cm barrel compared to the 60 cm / 23.6" barrel on a standard CZ 550. You might get velocities averaging 1% higher.

However, I would also like to see the effects of barrel length added. It would make quite a difference for certain weapons (eg, AKS74U, Longhorn pistol, sawed-off rifles, Repeater vs Magnum, etc).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by -Gews-

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

19 hours ago, igor-vk said:

Am I wrong or this rifle will be the same as Winchester 70 except for detachable magazines? I doubt it will use new type of ammo. Anyway, Id rather have weapons like that than SAW.

The major difference is magazine related.

Winchester is an internal magazine - where as this uses external, 5 and 10 round.

 

18 hours ago, therunningmanz said:

Is the round in that mag the same as the mosin round? It sure looks like it. Will this take the long range scope or any scope at all?

 

Second slightly unrelated question. The accuracy between something like a Winchester and the Carbine seem wildly different. Is this intended? I understand why the Sporter and Trumpet wouldn't range to say 400m and be accurate at that distance with an LR scope, you kinda have to over range them. But personally i've found the Carbine (cr527) to be horribly inaccurate even at ranges of around 300m. It doesn't seem to shoot straight like a Winny or Blaze would do. Will this be changed or is it meant to be less accurate?

The CR 550 will be chambered in 308 - things like accuracy, effective range, etc are not balanced fully at this point. Balancing will be a step later on in beta and towards 1.0.

[igor-vk 909]

Next topic should be on OT-14 Groza. That thing is awesome. And lot to discuss with its modularity.