A Few Thoughts On.. (Loot Economy, Protecting the Vanilla Experience, etc..)

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

Recently as I've been enjoying my travels across Chernarus in 0.60 experimental I've noticed a few comments, or questions regarding availability for server resources such as food, ammunition, and such. I thought taking a few moments to talk about that might help everyone understand our direction, and goals.

For those of you who were around for the 0.55 build you'll recall the unintended side effect a few economic based bugs had on the gameplay for that build. The struggle to survive was "real" for certain - and interestingly enough, a good portion of the community has expressed nostalgia for it.
So, for those folks - they'll be happy to know to a certain degree - an experience like that is what we've been aiming for. Let me elaborate a bit.

Peter and I both share a passion for DayZ being a struggle to survive. Infact, there are game mechanics that just *don't work* without it being the case. The balance for us, the goal we're constantly iterating towards is a playable experience that is that struggle for survival. 
You should be able to find the basics for survival within your first few moments in game. Be it scavenging for some basic food, or finding the basic supplies needed to get off the coast. Within your first hour in game you *should* be able to find a firearm, and basic set of matching ammo.

The coast is not intended to be an easy viable location to survive. We want you to need to move inland to exist, we *want* to push players to move across the map. Deeper inland you will find the high risk, high reward areas for players that want to push themselves towards that. For those that don't - surviving off the land, and setting yourself up for sustained survival through creating camps, and living off of renewable resources should be just as viable.

Mechanics such as horticulture, or even such desperate measures as harvesting meat from fallen player corpses just won't ever be viable if we don't have that balance - that survival part of the survival game present. 
We track via heatmaps and server logging data such as global server quantities, and even exactly where things are concentrated and how evenly things are distributed across the server. Even with this however, bugs occur - and we rely upon player reports via the feedback tracker to properly track these down. I'm rambling again - so let me get to the next part of this post I wanted to hit.

I, *we* recognize that an honest to god punishing survival game might not be the DayZ experience everyone wants, or even knows. Through the robust modding community on Arma 2, to the countless different type of content creators that are out there - DayZ can, and is something different to each person, and this ties into why we talk so much about providing people the tools to make the DayZ experience they specifically are looking for.
This extends past modding, to robust control over the server economy for privately hosted shards (when server files and CLE/Database tools are released) with a lower barrier to entry than traditional hobby based development via modding.
That said - I'm very aware of the concerns some members of the community have expressed in regards to so called "5000 vehicle servers" and "Spawn w/ AS50 HighLoot PvP Mania" type situations.

These concerns were first a foremost on my mind when our Lead Designer, Peter Nespesny and I sat down to lay out the design of our final Main Menu, Server Browser, and Launcher. Maintaining the character centric view in our Main Menu, so that your "Official DayZ" character and his or her successes, statistics, and overall status is one of the first things you are presented with. In addition to this, our Main Menu ties right into the new server browser design - which is intended to segregate the Official DayZ experience from community run experiences, and modded servers.

There is a point in UI/UX design that is discussed in the industry - that basically put covers the "clicks to gameplay" count. Maintaining a low click count to gameplay for us is one of the key points in the Main Menu, and to that end - where you end up through these clicks is critical. 
Separating the "Official" servers from the community run, and modded servers is more than just a filter. Our focus is very heavily on ensuring that the first gameplay experience someone has (unless they intentionally navigate past it) is on Official DayZ servers, with the original and intended DayZ gameplay design. 

- Main Menu "Play now" or "Quickplay" type option that dumps you into the lowest ping / highest pop Official DayZ server (or the last one you played on)
- The first tab you see when opening the server browser is *only* Official DayZ servers
- Community servers kept on their own tab
- Main Menu character data and statistics are Official DayZ servers only

Sure, these might seem small in the grand scheme of things - but the little things add up when trying to ensure that the base DayZ ("Vanilla") is protected, is the first type of gameplay a new user is presented with, and continues to thrive past the introduction of modding and private run hives/servers.

As usual, I've ranted and rambled a bit - but again, I just wanted you all to have a little insight into the thought process. Peter and I (and the entire team) are always very focused on the unforgiving survival game DayZ is intended to be - and while it might not seem like it from development build, to development build.. every decision we make during development is focused on making sure the *final product* is exactly what we all dreamed it would be.

[Kerbo 198]

It's great to hear the commitment to official DayZ being a hardcore survival experience. Ramble anytime.

[zomgzerg 0]

I'm really glad the main experience will be kept intact. I grew up playing counter-strike, which is a mod itself then it was modded to death on all the community run servers, and it was very hard to find a vanilla experience after a couple of years. I fell in love with dayz when i played the vanilla arma mod, feeling hopeless on the coast with a trail of zombies behind me. All the cars and guns are fun and it will bring more people back to the game, as well as survivor gamez style modes for the PVP itch, but it's great that joining a vanilla experience will stay an easy task, thanks.

[tomtrustworthy 35]

Its nice that the official servers will be preserved but right now I'm not sure they are all that fun. I mean the only time I have my worst experiences are on public servers. So I hope things change in the future.

My main issues are the fact that their public so people just server hop. There are no active admins so any issues like hacking or anything will not be taken care of. If these servers were cared for like your typical private server then i think more quality people would end up using them. 

Would private servers get a chance to stat track and all that as well? Then push that info to our main screen and make sure you show the main screen data is being taken from some private server rather than the official servers. 

[Azeh 4]

Quote

Deeper inland you will find the high risk, high reward areas for players that want to push themselves towards that. 

I looted all of NWAF except for the hangars and all I found was a few jackets, some vests and 2 AKs (neither had mags but that's not really relevant). I didn't find a single mag or any ammo. Is this intentional? Cause NWAF should be one of the most rewarding areas imo.

This was on 0.60 btw.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Azeh

[odin_lowe 3686]

Very interested to see the new menu and browsing method for the servers. I think it's a great idea to separate official servers from the private servers in different tabs. That said, I totally disagree about not showing player stats for private hives, for many points. First, it's only sure environment to play hacker-free since they were first made available. And there's the fact that the character's life is bound to the server he plays on, making his "life", all the more important. No server hopping, all interactions been done within the same "community", that can relate to. 

The experience in private hive is very different. Anyway, thanks for sharing Mr. Hicks. Looking forward a bright future for DayZ, and a fun present! ;)

[Qpec 5]

6 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

we're constantly iterating towards is a playable experience that is that struggle for survival.

It's probably a joke.

[Areyoukiddingme 2]

As someone who has played the mod, I'm pondering what dayz mod you played. I can recall running into towns such as Elektro and finding an Enfield within the first 10 minutes. Suggesting that people even liked the lack of loot is ridiculous, or you are listening to a select group of players. I specifically remember me and a about 20-30 other people in our clan, just not playing. It isn't like we didn't like to survive off the land, but it shouldn't be forced upon us. It seems like you guys are frustrated you added all these mechanics in the game and spent all the time, just so no one uses them. I can cook and eat someone if I'm hungry, I can farm if I can't find food, its not exactly easy in the first place, and I FOR SURE, do not want to play for hours on end to get a f**king gun and ammo, just to be killed by some bandit who looted Northwest and came to the coast. If this is the direction the game is going, it will stay on my, "deleted until mod support," list. This, "vanilla experience," you talk about is absolutely absurd.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Areyoukiddingme

[Nebulae3 422]

-  Heli events need changes, Brian Hicks - you can loot an empty official Dayz server and be be geared up in minutes with rare weapons now if u have a balota or far west spawns. I suggest to add additional heli events locations all over the map (inland, north, center east, and small islands.) Because most heli crash sites are far west on the map which is strange in my opinion. And heli crashes need zombies to protect rare loot for new players without weapons and zombies need to be a threat, Hicks. Maybe u get ill if u get hit by a zombie like a % chance, or they hit you harder, because they are like no threat at the moment. My point is if someone gun down zombies near a heli crash site - it should be heard and competition for that loot in Dayz. 

Another view why heli events need to spread out all over the map - tents near Green mountains and NW Airfield, and Tisy are one of the few locations to get military equipment - that location far west or in the area doesn`t need heli crash sites for rare weapons spawns at all. And same with the city Zelenogorsk - the only city on the map almost with military baracks and end game gear - also located near Green Mountain with most crash sites. My point is we don`t need all the players located far west on the map. Because now the map far east-north feels completely empty since the suicide glitch. No one enjoy berenzino spawn or far north, because of no heli crash sites or military equipment nearby.

The amount of heli crash sites are fine so I don`t like to increase rare weapon spawns, but it should be possible to find a heli crash site all over the map which is my point. 

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by ori42

[silverblade1233 18]

10 hours ago, Areyoukiddingme said:

As someone who has played the mod, I'm pondering what dayz mod you played. I can recall running into towns such as Elektro and finding an Enfield within the first 10 minutes. Suggesting that people even liked the lack of loot is ridiculous, or you are listening to a select group of players. I specifically remember me and a about 20-30 other people in our clan, just not playing. It isn't like we didn't like to survive off the land, but it shouldn't be forced upon us. It seems like you guys are frustrated you added all these mechanics in the game and spent all the time, just so no one uses them. I can cook and eat someone if I'm hungry, I can farm if I can't find food, its not exactly easy in the first place, and I FOR SURE, do not want to play for hours on end to get a f**king gun and ammo, just to be killed by some bandit who looted Northwest and came to the coast. If this is the direction the game is going, it will stay on my, "deleted until mod support," list. This, "vanilla experience," you talk about is absolutely absurd.

Ikr, some of us want to play other games too in our day, or have lives... We don't want to spend our whole day in DayZ walking in the woods making a fucking farm... We want to be interacting with players everywhere on the map... Food and water should be like how it was in the mod and players/zombies should be the biggest challenge since that's what makes the game so fun. There's a reason people still play the mod. Cause you can actually meet people up north. In DayZ sa i swear you can play for hours and not see a fucking person and that just makes me want to uninstall because of how boring it is.

[Parazight 1599]

This is great news regarding servers. 

I posit that the success of DayZ will largely hang on the server select screen and main menu.  I've said in previous threads that a player's options should be laid out in a format that's easy to navigate while displaying all of the possibilities available.  This seems like a great move.  Thanks for update, Hicks!

[Valdenburg 200]

Really glad to hear that modded server will be a "side-thing" and the new user is not confronted with hundreds of different rulesets first.

 

[komikon_suki@yahoo.com 2]

NO. NO. NO. Play on the experimental servers for 4 hours straight. With 60 players running around the map, there's enough danger. You barely manage to find a gun and ammo for it. You run 30-40 minutes, looting for food, clothes, and then you end up in a bad situation and die. This is basically a running simulator at this point. I don't know about the final product, but you must take into consideration that 60 players use a lot of resources, and the fact that loot only respawns every 20 minutes or so, when a player dies after 30-40 minutes of collecting items, which are eventually ruined by the killer, makes the game repetitive and boring after a while. I grew tired of how loot spawn works on 0.60. Besides once you release it to stable, everyone will be jumping from one server to another to get loot. The mod was much brighter when it came to loot spawning, you were able to do loot cycles while your friends were covering your back. It is not realistic, but loot spawns either way. Also how come a bullet RUINS EVERYTHING on you? A 7.62x54 mosin bullet ruined all my items on me, so many times, I stopped counting. That being said, you are not even able to split ruined ammo like before. You're supposed to throw it away, and go look for more, whilst on a 60 players servers you find none, because of the poor loot spawn. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SALVAGE WHEN SOMEONE SHOOTS YOU. You want to encourage people to use protector cases or what's the point? Because the fact that one bullet ruins everything is absurd. I am basically supposed to throw everything off, only keep my gun,my headgear and my gloves and then start looking for gear again, after 3 hours of looting. Is every bullet in dayz using fucking buckshot pellets?

I had 3 days surviving sessions on arma 2 dayz mod. 39 kills, in 3 days. I was able to stay alive that long because when I got shot, my items were not ruined, every damn time. I am not saying that it should be like that on Dayz Standalone aswell, but 1-2 hours average survival time, for someone who tries a tactical approach everytime and does not jump into a gunfight everytime, seems to me retarded, at least. I have watched all my friends die within 30-40 min of spawning. That's their average life span.

Dayz Standalone is a hardcore survival as it is right now. Making the loot spawn even more unforgiving will turn this game into a waste of time.

[John Goodman 3]

I would reccomend adding the defib to revive someone (if before an amount of seconds and if they have not respawned) for it to bring them back to life and it would encourage teamwork.

[Tigermonk 140]

On 11-6-2016 at 8:24 PM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Recently as I've been enjoying my travels across Chernarus in 0.60 experimental I've noticed a few comments, or questions regarding availability for server resources such as food, ammunition, and such. I thought taking a few moments to talk about that might help everyone understand our direction, and goals.

For those of you who were around for the 0.55 build you'll recall the unintended side effect a few economic based bugs had on the gameplay for that build. The struggle to survive was "real" for certain - and interestingly enough, a good portion of the community has expressed nostalgia for it.
So, for those folks - they'll be happy to know to a certain degree - an experience like that is what we've been aiming for. Let me elaborate a bit.

Peter and I both share a passion for DayZ being a struggle to survive. Infact, there are game mechanics that just *don't work* without it being the case. The balance for us, the goal we're constantly iterating towards is a playable experience that is that struggle for survival. 
You should be able to find the basics for survival within your first few moments in game. Be it scavenging for some basic food, or finding the basic supplies needed to get off the coast. Within your first hour in game you *should* be able to find a firearm, and basic set of matching ammo.

The coast is not intended to be an easy viable location to survive. We want you to need to move inland to exist, we *want* to push players to move across the map. Deeper inland you will find the high risk, high reward areas for players that want to push themselves towards that. For those that don't - surviving off the land, and setting yourself up for sustained survival through creating camps, and living off of renewable resources should be just as viable.

Mechanics such as horticulture, or even such desperate measures as harvesting meat from fallen player corpses just won't ever be viable if we don't have that balance - that survival part of the survival game present. 
We track via heatmaps and server logging data such as global server quantities, and even exactly where things are concentrated and how evenly things are distributed across the server. Even with this however, bugs occur - and we rely upon player reports via the feedback tracker to properly track these down. I'm rambling again - so let me get to the next part of this post I wanted to hit.

I, *we* recognize that an honest to god punishing survival game might not be the DayZ experience everyone wants, or even knows. Through the robust modding community on Arma 2, to the countless different type of content creators that are out there - DayZ can, and is something different to each person, and this ties into why we talk so much about providing people the tools to make the DayZ experience they specifically are looking for.
This extends past modding, to robust control over the server economy for privately hosted shards (when server files and CLE/Database tools are released) with a lower barrier to entry than traditional hobby based development via modding.
That said - I'm very aware of the concerns some members of the community have expressed in regards to so called "5000 vehicle servers" and "Spawn w/ AS50 HighLoot PvP Mania" type situations.

These concerns were first a foremost on my mind when our Lead Designer, Peter Nespesny and I sat down to lay out the design of our final Main Menu, Server Browser, and Launcher. Maintaining the character centric view in our Main Menu, so that your "Official DayZ" character and his or her successes, statistics, and overall status is one of the first things you are presented with. In addition to this, our Main Menu ties right into the new server browser design - which is intended to segregate the Official DayZ experience from community run experiences, and modded servers.

There is a point in UI/UX design that is discussed in the industry - that basically put covers the "clicks to gameplay" count. Maintaining a low click count to gameplay for us is one of the key points in the Main Menu, and to that end - where you end up through these clicks is critical. 
Separating the "Official" servers from the community run, and modded servers is more than just a filter. Our focus is very heavily on ensuring that the first gameplay experience someone has (unless they intentionally navigate past it) is on Official DayZ servers, with the original and intended DayZ gameplay design. 

- Main Menu "Play now" or "Quickplay" type option that dumps you into the lowest ping / highest pop Official DayZ server (or the last one you played on)
- The first tab you see when opening the server browser is *only* Official DayZ servers
- Community servers kept on their own tab
- Main Menu character data and statistics are Official DayZ servers only

Sure, these might seem small in the grand scheme of things - but the little things add up when trying to ensure that the base DayZ ("Vanilla") is protected, is the first type of gameplay a new user is presented with, and continues to thrive past the introduction of modding and private run hives/servers.

As usual, I've ranted and rambled a bit - but again, I just wanted you all to have a little insight into the thought process. Peter and I (and the entire team) are always very focused on the unforgiving survival game DayZ is intended to be - and while it might not seem like it from development build, to development build.. every decision we make during development is focused on making sure the *final product* is exactly what we all dreamed it would be.

'surviving off the land, and setting yourself up for sustained survival through creating camps, and living off of renewable resources should be just as viable.

then we'll first NEED these renewable resources? I'm not talking about tomato patches a mile long and 6 miles wide.. or pumpkin patches 3 hectares wide..
wildlife, meat is one of the key survival (protein) foods you'll need in real life..
so should be the case in dayz, the way the system works now. Energy vs effort vs draining of those stats.. is a little out of wack.. 3 liters of water gone within 2 hours? 3 cans of beans (most of those cans are 2 person meals) gone within a matter of hours? 
you're burning through reserves like NO tomorrow.. so there should be plenty of wild life to shoot and cook for steaks.. or beef.

I know this might come in later patches (due to server stability) but if you guys are really serious about the whole 'survival' thing in dayz.. that should be one of the main priority's from now on.. getting more elements (zombies/wildlife/eatable plants/fruit in the game, so people actually have a reason to go further inland. 
having 20 cans of baked beans on hand in elektro or cherno isn't going to make people go in land.. because effort vs reward.
why run/walk all the way to vavilovo or severograd, if cherno apartments yield enough food for 2 full days? and every server restart this cycle repeats itself?

I know this all requires components like game/rendering engine etc. etc. working in complete harmony, but as things are now (5 cows/3 deer/2 boar/100 chickens.. that will not sustain a population of 10-15 people for weeks when camps/establishments/modded camps come into play.

regards,

tigermonk

[emuthreat 2837]

This is great news regarding the direction of the vanilla experience, and the creation of a more demanding server environment.

I have some questions relating to fish, though.  How does taking away half of the meat from a caught fish add to the authenticity of the experience?  If you thought fish was a little bit OP as a food source, due to the relative ease of access and infinite nature of fishing for food, why not just reduce the caloric value to that of a chicken breast?
But aside from vehicles being more broken than when they were new, the one-fillet decision is my only complaint about .60.  

Touching on what Tigermonk said above:  There are now so many chickens on the map, that if the guts were able to be made into rope, a player would have absolutely no barrier to survival, so long as they understood basic crafting, hunting, and fishing mechanics.
Remove all packaged food, and increase the number of canteens, and see how loudly people protest?  I know of a number of people who would rather starve than pick apples or build a fire to cook.  Please, please, make them starve for science.

Edited June 13, 2016 by emuthreat

[Tigermonk 140]

8 minutes ago, emuthreat said:

This is great news regarding the direction of the vanilla experience, and the creation of a more demanding server environment.

I have some questions relating to fish, though.  How does taking away half of the meat from a caught fish add to the authenticity of the experience?  If you thought fish was a little bit OP as a food source, due to the relative ease of access and infinite nature of fishing for food, why not just reduce the caloric value to that of a chicken breast?
But aside from vehicles being more broken than when they were new, the one-fillet decision is my only complaint about .60.  

Touching on what Tigermonk said above:  There are now so many chickens on the map, that if the guts were able to be made into rope, a player would have absolutely no barrier to survival, so long as they understood basic crafting, hunting, and fishing mechanics.
Remove all packaged food, and increase the number of canteens, and see how loudly people protest?  I know of a number of people who would rather starve than pick apples or build a fire to cook.  Please, please, make them starve for science.

that is very true... increase the spawn rate of canteens/bottles a tiny bit (say 5% on the entire server) but decrease the canned food with like 50%..

what good does this do?

it get players moving because: less/no food in towns will force people to think on their feet
it makes the game more interactive (hunting/fishing/trapping etc.
it slows the game pace down (because you can't run at a deer with your AKM and expect to have 20 pounds of deer steak laying infront of you in seconds.. (stealth/tactics are required)
it makes for more danger, because now everyone WILL fight for that can of beans (for legit reasons, not just shits and giggles, we robbed a freshy in cherno because we're fully geared)
it shows that people actually know a thing or two about survival in general. 

my best bet? the 12 yo kid will grow tired of sitting around a campfire for an hour trying to cook 20 steaks for all his mates
while the seasoned veteran players take all the time they need, building a base/guarding the perimeter/handing out jobs to people <- like they would should this be a real life situation

1 person collects firewood
2 people hunt for deer/pigs/chickens/rabbits/cows
3 people guard the fort  (guard duty)
4 people do perimeter control checks every 10-15 min or so

congratulations you're running a small community, in a very harsh and unforgiving environment, congratulations you're actually surviving/having fun with your friends that'll last you a whole lot longer than emptying 4 drum mags each on NWA and then starting over when you get your head blown off.

less easy accessible food.. and the food that IS easy to find?
guarded by about 100 zombies in a city (like elektro) or 20 zombies in a village (like gorka)
want food? be prepared to fight for it.. 
want access to that well? be prepared to fight for it!

cya'll in cherno folks
happy hunting and goodluck surviving

[quatermass 9]

On 6/11/2016 at 9:39 PM, Azeh said:

I looted all of NWAF except for the hangars and all I found was a few jackets, some vests and 2 AKs (neither had mags but that's not really relevant). I didn't find a single mag or any ammo. Is this intentional? Cause NWAF should be one of the most rewarding areas imo.

This was on 0.60 btw.

Err no. It's not been like that for quite a while. Try the military camps to the north of NWAF or the big camps. You'll find plenty of guns and ammo...oh and zombies. 

[Luc Tonnerre 174]

On 11.6.2016 at 8:24 PM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

*enormous snip*

While I agree with everything you say I still have to express my concerns about whether this right now would be the best time to fiddle with balancing and tweaking.

I like the struggle for survival but as a 'tester' I would prefer to do my job without having to run for miles before I can find anything worth testing.

I would prefer it if you would delay the balancing of loot economy to a later state when everything else (like gun mechanics, player controller and such) is settled and working as intended. I think it's way to early to start balancing the loot economy.

just my 2 beans

[themightylc 56]

6 hours ago, komikon_suki@yahoo.com said:

NO. NO. NO. Play on the experimental servers for 4 hours straight. With 60 players running around the map, there's enough danger. You barely manage to find a gun and ammo for it. You run 30-40 minutes, looting for food, clothes, and then you end up in a bad situation and die. This is basically a running simulator at this point. I don't know about the final product, but you must take into consideration that 60 players use a lot of resources, and the fact that loot only respawns every 20 minutes or so, when a player dies after 30-40 minutes of collecting items, which are eventually ruined by the killer, makes the game repetitive and boring after a while. I grew tired of how loot spawn works on 0.60. Besides once you release it to stable, everyone will be jumping from one server to another to get loot. The mod was much brighter when it came to loot spawning, you were able to do loot cycles while your friends were covering your back. It is not realistic, but loot spawns either way. Also how come a bullet RUINS EVERYTHING on you? A 7.62x54 mosin bullet ruined all my items on me, so many times, I stopped counting. That being said, you are not even able to split ruined ammo like before. You're supposed to throw it away, and go look for more, whilst on a 60 players servers you find none, because of the poor loot spawn. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SALVAGE WHEN SOMEONE SHOOTS YOU. You want to encourage people to use protector cases or what's the point? Because the fact that one bullet ruins everything is absurd. I am basically supposed to throw everything off, only keep my gun,my headgear and my gloves and then start looking for gear again, after 3 hours of looting. Is every bullet in dayz using fucking buckshot pellets?

I had 3 days surviving sessions on arma 2 dayz mod. 39 kills, in 3 days. I was able to stay alive that long because when I got shot, my items were not ruined, every damn time. I am not saying that it should be like that on Dayz Standalone aswell, but 1-2 hours average survival time, for someone who tries a tactical approach everytime and does not jump into a gunfight everytime, seems to me retarded, at least. I have watched all my friends die within 30-40 min of spawning. That's their average life span.

Dayz Standalone is a hardcore survival as it is right now. Making the loot spawn even more unforgiving will turn this game into a waste of time.

Talking about kills in DayZ always makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. There should only be one stat and that is (active) hours survived.

Try joining the "Spawn w/ AS50 HighLoot PvP Mania" Server instead. I bet It'll be a great experience for you.

Edited June 13, 2016 by themightylc

[komikon_suki@yahoo.com 2]

I mentioned the number of kills so you realise that, so many people couldn't kill me. On standalone, a player is enough to kill you even if you don't die, because one bullet will ruin your whole gear, and you will be standing there, with a half empty mag, if not empty and anything else ruined on you, which will get you killed. This is not about stats, it's about people not being able to make it through the day, with their character, no matter what. The only exception would be playing 10 minutes a day. I'm pretty sure everyone would survive enough then. People complain about the game not being hardcore enough? Get your facts straight.

 

To be honest, you make me sick. @themightylc If, you can't get a kill, you might wanna keep your frustrations to yourself. This game can be played as a survivor, a hero or a bandit. If you do not accept the fact that bandits actually kill people in this game, then you should find a more peaceful game, like Rocket League.

[komikon_suki@yahoo.com 2]

Also, you want less PVP? Then give people something better to do, like building a base. Shortening the food supplies to make people hunt animals. Cool. I hunt an animal, get some clothes. Then some punk kills me after running 40 minutes on the map. Where's my satisfaction? I lived enough to sacrifice a cow and eat it? You can't educate players to stop killing people on sight. You can give them alternatives, other activities. Perhaps instead of making the loot spawn more unforgiving, you should make the zeds so. You want people to run from the coast? Get AI helicopters on the coast, shooting survivours, like they did on Dayz Origins. That was in my opinion one of the toughest mods I've played on. You looked for a weapon and instead of hunting players, you tried to get to the Sector B island and pop some AIs in the head for better loot. 

[Red_Ensign 990]

On 6/13/2016 at 3:19 PM, Luc Tonnerre said:

While I agree with everything you say I still have to express my concerns about whether this right now would be the best time to fiddle with balancing and tweaking.

I like the struggle for survival but as a 'tester' I would prefer to do my job without having to run for miles before I can find anything worth testing.

I would prefer it if you would delay the balancing of loot economy to a later state when everything else (like gun mechanics, player controller and such) is settled and working as intended. I think it's way to early to start balancing the loot economy.

just my 2 beans

never too early to teach people that maybe bullets are too valuable to spray at respawns.  maybe it'll weed out a bunch of the squeakers by beta.

[Tigermonk 140]

7 hours ago, Red_Ensign said:

never too early to teach people that maybe bullets are too valuable to spray at respawns.  maybe it'll weed out a bunch of the squeakers by beta.

very well said!
in most survival scenarios:

-shelter
- clean water
- food
- basic weapon
- good clothing

is the way to go.. in terms of 'prioritize your to-do list'

in any other situation:

- bullets
- firearms (of any kind)
- medication/drugs in general
- tabacco
- water
- food
- clothing

is the way things works in terms of value.. so like you said: 'never too early to teach people that maybe bullets are too valuable to spray at respawns'
BECAUSE they really are!! certainly the non-russian weapon supply should be ultra rare..
so finding an M4A1 or an M16A is like finding the holy grail.. finding 5.56 nato rnds? you've just been struck by lightning twice.. and survived type of lucky!

7.62x39 should be a bit more available because that's the main ammo type for the most abundant weapon in the world (AK-47/74)
5.45 should also be pretty doable if you know where to look because this gun is also native to chernarus/russian forces (AKM)
9mm should be doable but only if you know where to look.
45 ACP should be rare because most of the guns this goes into aren't native to the country of Chernarus (winchester/remmington are US build)
5.56 as stated above.. should be so rare that if you FIND them.. you can barter them for anything you want, about the same as a diamond would be or gold

^ long story short:

US based weapons and ammo should be very very very rare
USSR style weapons should be doable if you know where to look
as for the ammo types?
US based should almost be non-existent (a 1:500.000 chance or something)
USSR based should be pretty easy to find after restarts.
very common ammo types should be fairly easy to find because of wide spread use around the world. (.45 acp/9mm)
types of ammo that are not commonly used should be a pain to find. (.22/.357/.308/flares)

Edited June 15, 2016 by Tigermonk

[EdStaffordZombie 63]

11 hours ago, komikon_suki@yahoo.com said:

Also, you want less PVP? Then give people something better to do, like building a base. Shortening the food supplies to make people hunt animals. Cool. I hunt an animal, get some clothes. Then some punk kills me after running 40 minutes on the map. Where's my satisfaction? I lived enough to sacrifice a cow and eat it? You can't educate players to stop killing people on sight. You can give them alternatives, other activities. Perhaps instead of making the loot spawn more unforgiving, you should make the zeds so.

This is exactly what I think. They need to provide more mechanics, more vehicles, wildlife and more objectives. 
Yesterday I was playing on exp. and suddenly I heard a car going through the city where I was. It scaried me so much, but it made me happy because I had an objetive ("to kill that guy and get his car..."). Vehicle nowadays are hard to get them work so i do not understand why people dont want more vehicles. Having more options will lead to a more interactive and funny game.
In summary i dont think that the balance in the loot spawn would be the main point to do right now. We are playing an alpha release, we need more mechanics and things to do, of course loot balance is important, but not as other features like "surviving" on the wildlife in order to accomplish one objetive(vehicle, food, weapon, shelter or whatever).

Bestz