How can we fix Hunting

[Zurvivalist 300]

Again this post is designed for simply brainstorming ideas on how to fix or improve the immersion and experience of  Hunting the AI animals .

 

I have spent the last two month doing nothing but animal hunting . Trying to figure out patterns , behavior , hitboxes and so on. ALL questions btw could have been answered in five minutes by the Devs... Dunno why they choose to keep certain info locked up from us when we need to test to bug hunt.... 

 

 

Anyways ... In my testing I have observed some very impressive AI behavior. Very nice detailed animations . Which really do give a feeling of decent immersion from hunting and witnessing wildlife in the game.. You can see some examples of these on my youtube channel Here..Currently The only game I can think of that did it slightly better was a few mods I used in Skyrim .

 

 https://youtu.be/J7V8W79KoL4

 

https://youtu.be/PY3heUwEyog

 

As impressive as DayZ currently is in reguards to the hunting simulation aspects. There has to be room for improvements that will not overly stress the limitations of the engine of multiplayer performance. 

 

So i reviewed a lot of other "Hunting games" for inspiration . Honestly for games that are Just for hunting,, they fell very short . Poorly and cheaply made, So good job Devs in putting the majority of them to shame already. 

 

 

As to our hunting experience. 

I have witnessed that certain animals will travel while others seem to remain in certain areas. 

For example, Elk , Deer, Cows seem to travel a lot along game trails and from water hole to water hole, Where as hogs and chickens will stay with in a set area and just wander around a bit. 

 

So here I have a little list of ideas that might work to improve overall experience. 

 

Life Cycle: 

Like in the Skyrim mod, I would like to see animal reproduction occasionally . So from time to time we will see that herd of elk with babies, This will add to the ambiance as well as cause some players to have to think about how they feel about shooting a calf or killing its mother . A hog with piglets would also provide that little extra meat to the solo hunter if he was able to bag them all. (Side note, in IRL if you shoot a solo mother hog with piglets, then without moving wait a while , the babies will return to the corpse , giving you a chance to shoot them as well. ) This would also give the poorly armed player a chance to harvest fresh meat by killing the weaker babies rather then missing out on the larger game due to lack of high cal weapon, 

 

Predators and Prey: 

I'm sure this is hopefully already in the works , But I would like to see the predators in the game interact with the prey animals more . Bears and wolves , chasing or hunting the deer, A horde of zombies chasing a chicken through the city.. That sort of thing .And also of course the predators eating their kills.  A simple thing , but a simple thing that creates chaos and unique experiences . Its weird to never see zombies eat anything ,. even when they make a player kill, or to find a fox eating your rabbits killed in a snare. An entire city of zombies collected in a backyard eating a cow. (Imagine blindly running through a back door to find that waiting for you ? )

 

 

Aggressive males: 

I'm not sure how this would work out in the code yet. But I would love to see the large Elk , Wild Hogs, and Feral Cows, attack you if you got either too close to them , Or directly in their running path. 

I don't even really think this would require new animations, Just simple collision damage. A bull charging you is really no different then getting hit by a truck. Maybe rather than making it a killing blow, just set it to be a leg breaking , knock you out, ruin some gear blow. 

 

 

Animal hitboxes: 

Yea they currently have no heart/lung or headshot hitbox, So this needs to eventually be addressed . 

 

Bleed out and death animations: 

Rather than every kill shot being a perfect drop . I think bullet damage should just cause different degrees of massive bleeding.  This could allow them once shot with a killing caliper, to still run anywhere from 25-100 meters before they drop dead, At which point ragdoll physics could be applied allowing them to flip, fall, roll, or slide depending on their speed and terrain .

This could allow for more unique , action based and adrenaline inducing hunting results. 

 

Tracking. 

When a player runs over a road, in 3rd person , you can see footprints behind yourself. 

Apply the same principal to the larger game animals. Maybe a little darker to contrast against normal terrain. And last around 300-400m behind the animals who made them. This would give us a chance to track wounded animals, or find an animal to hunt. 

 

Location and diversity: 

Animals can be found out in the wild pretty much any time of the day, Just certain times are more common and easy to spot them , For example Deer are most common in fields from dusk till early dawn , at which point they return to the thicker forest areas. While animals like Cattle and Chickens wouldn't care at all about time of day. 

 

Ambiance: 

We have these annoying little particles of fuzz and dragon flies that buzz in our faces all the time , why not build off that and add roaches to houses , flies to spoiled foods, dead bodies and so on. Maybe mice in cities along with lootable rat traps that work just like snares to catch them , for ugly apocalyptic survival food for city dwellers . 
And on that note while I'm thinking about it ... worms are a great source of emergency protein, Albeit gross, they should not make you sick 100% of the time when you eat them....

 

Sounds 

 Sounds already work .. occasionally but not well enough . After studying chickens and cows, I have learned that they do seem to have a set range on how far you can hear them , which is good. But needs to be expanded on. While you would only hear a chicken clucking from a few meters away which helps in narrowing down its location , A Rooster should crow occasionally when they are spawned in a town , which could be heard from a few hundred meters away. Which would alarm any passing players to animal activity in that area. 

Elk cows and deer should make much louder calls more often , which can be heard from a greater distance to aid in finding and tracking them . In order to help reduce the current random encounter system of silent animals that we have now , and Isn't very fun. . 

 

Animal Calls:
Additionally, we really should build off the walkie system and add in animal calls, Such as rabbit squeals to attract foxes,  wolves, bears. and Deer / elk grunts to attract large males. 

I think using them to actually lure in animals would not work or just be too complicated to code in . But , this system could be used to triggers response calls from the target animal , which would at least notify you if anything is even in the area. 

You could use a Elk call for example and listen for them to respond, until you narrow down their locations. 

calls could be found in treestands or crafted . (collected deer antlers for rattling ) 

 

 

Those are just a few of my basic ideas. But I am more interested in hearing what everyone else thinks could help improve this area of game play.

Edited January 10, 2016 by J0nathan

[stinkenheim 249]

Animal life cycles, advanced behaviour, predatory animals and tracking have all been confirmed. Iirc tracking and predators in the last status report.

[Rags! 1966]

Like in the Skyrim mod, I would like to see animal reproduction occasionally . So from time to time we will see that herd of elk with babies, This will add to the ambiance as well as cause some players to have to think about how they feel about shooting a calf or killing its mother . 

 

If shooting animal shaped pixels in a video game about survival makes one question their morality, then one might consider needing to...what's the most polite way of saying it...grow up?

[Zurvivalist 300]

If shooting animal shaped pixels in a video game about survival makes one question their morality, then one might consider needing to...what's the most polite way of saying it...grow up?

You realise just how ignorant that comment makes you sound ? Get use to it man , a game like this has already and will continue to attract a lot of role players. 

Not to mention its player morality that makes the game interesting. It's the difference from between that guy just shooting your female character and taking her gear. And this guy from handcuffing you , dragging you off into the woods, stripping off your clothing . and making you do humiliating things to spare your life.  Its morality and mentality that decides rather I simply let someone walk by unharmed , or torture them to death with poisons , or burn them alive with camp fires . 

 If someone wants to have to make a choice between starving to death or eating human flesh , or a puppy . Then that just adds to the immersion of the ugly post apocalyptic life. 

To ignore or dismiss that aspect of the game , is really just limiting your experience and cheapens the game for yourself, 

[Whyherro123 2283]

If shooting animal shaped pixels in a video game about survival makes one question their morality, then one might consider needing to...what's the most polite way of saying it...grow up?

 

 

You realise just how ignorant that comment makes you sound ? Get use to it man , a game like this has already and will continue to attract a lot of role players. 

Not to mention its player morality that makes the game interesting. It's the difference from between that guy just shooting your female character and taking her gear. And this guy from handcuffing you , dragging you off into the woods, stripping off your clothing . and making you do humiliating things to spare your life.  Its morality and mentality that decides rather I simply let someone walk by unharmed , or torture them to death with poisons , or burn them alive with camp fires . 

 If someone wants to have to make a choice between starving to death or eating human flesh , or a puppy . Then that just adds to the immersion of the ugly post apocalyptic life. 

To ignore or dismiss that aspect of the game , is really just limiting your experience and cheapens the game for yourself, 

 

 

In an actual survival situation, I would have zero qualms with killing baby animals in order for me to survive. It is, after all, "me or them", plus, animals don't exactly have empathy/inspire empathy like human beings. Not including the fact that juvenile animals are extremely unlikely to survive without their parents. A mercy kill via bullet/arrow is almost infinitely preferable to starving to death.

 

Shit, some of the more successful traps and snares are goddamn horrifying. 

 

Killing people is different from killing animals.  If you can't differentiate between the two, then there is something wrong with the wiring in your brain.

 

Is  the "You should feel bad for killing baby animals" shtick coming from the guy that just murdered a dude and ate him? Really? Priorities, man.

 

As an aside, I fully understand that these are pixels, not real people or animals. 

Edited January 10, 2016 by Whyherro123

[Rags! 1966]

You realise just how ignorant that comment makes you sound ?

 

No, but I'm sure you'll let me know.

 

 

Get use to it man , a game like this has already and will continue to attract a lot of role players. 

 

I don't have a problem with people who roleplay in DayZ. But showing a real conflict of morality for shooting animal shaped pixels controlled by computers seems a bit much.

 

 

Not to mention its player morality that makes the game interesting. It's the difference from between that guy just shooting your female character and taking her gear. 

 

Or simple expediency.

 

 

 And this guy from handcuffing you , dragging you off into the woods, stripping off your clothing . and making you do humiliating things to spare your life.  Its morality and mentality that decides rather I simply let someone walk by unharmed , or torture them to death with poisons , or burn them alive with camp fires . 

 

Doing those things to pixels in a video game has literally nothing to do with actual morality. When I kill other players, it doesn't make me a bad person. When I grief other players and make their survival difficult in a video game...that doesn't make me a bad person. Because those aren't real people and they can't feel real things and they don't have real thoughts. 

 

 

If someone wants to have to make a choice between starving to death or eating human flesh , or a puppy . Then that just adds to the immersion of the ugly post apocalyptic life. 

To ignore or dismiss that aspect of the game , is really just limiting your experience and cheapens the game for yourself, 

 

These aren't moral choices. There is neither human flesh nor are there puppies at stake here. It's not real. You won't really kill somebody and eat them. It's a pixelated representation of it on a screen. Nobody is getting hurt. This is a "transgression without a victim". 

 

Also, this isn't cheapening the game for me at all. I got my hours of enjoyment out of days ages ago. Everything has been icing on the cake for a looooong long time already.

 

I'll go around and massacre whole herds of deer and I won't feel the tiniest iota of moral doubt. And neither should anybody. 

[Zurvivalist 300]

In an actual survival situation, I would have zero qualms with killing baby animals in order for me to survive.

Neither would I , Hell I currently prefer to take piglets and calves when hunting for food IRL. But SOME people would find issue with that, Which is a big part of this game.. personal experiences . 

 

Shit, some of the more successful traps and snares are goddamn horrifying. 

Yea, shotgun shell landmines are one of my personal favorites I've used, and really wish would be added into the game eventually ,.

 

Killing people is different from killing animals.  If you can't differentiate between the two, then there is something wrong with the wiring in your brain.

Meat is meat in a survival situation. In the apocalypse I would likely be more prone to killing people over animals simply due the the abundance and removal of competition and threats . Much like culling the wolf population near residential areas, 

 

Is  the "You should feel bad for killing baby animals" shtick coming from the guy that just murdered a dude and ate him? Really? Priorities, man.

I never said you Should feel bad about it , i added that as a possibility because SOME people might have issue with it . The female player or the 12 year old squeaker who has to kill and eat a puppy just to prevent starvation.. might find some small shame in the act.. who knows 

 

As an aside, I fully understand that these are pixels, not real people or animals. 

who doesn't ?

Edited January 10, 2016 by J0nathan

[Zurvivalist 300]

~snip~

Jesus dude who said anything about Actual real morals and values ? Some people have set rules they like to role play by, Rather it be a pysico killer, or that vegan that is stuck surviving off the land eating nothing but apples and grown crops.. Their are a million ways to play. So we cant judge or talk trash about anyones chosen path really.. 

 

*FYI ,,  **This will add to the ambiance as well as cause some players to have to think about how they feel about shooting a calf or killing its mother . **

 

it blows my mind that out of that long ass post, THIS one little line is what you trolls decide to focus on and go off on stupid ass rants about ? Talk about hijacking someone's post and going way the hell off topic..... 

[Rags! 1966]

Jesus dude who said anything about Actual real morals and values ? Some people have set rules they like to role play by, Rather it be a pysico killer, or that vegan that is stuck surviving off the land eating nothing but apples and grown crops.. Their are a million ways to play. So we cant judge or talk trash about anyones chosen path really.. 

 

*FYI ,,  **This will add to the ambiance as well as cause some players to have to think about how they feel about shooting a calf or killing its mother . **

 

it blows my mind that out of that long ass post, THIS one little line is what you trolls decide to focus on and go off on stupid ass rants about ? Talk about hijacking someone's post and going way the hell off topic..... 

 

 

People who don't agree with you are trolls and differing opinions are "stupid ass rants". Gotcha. 

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

deer and other game can be found around water still hunt a good body of water they come to it to drink.

[emuthreat 2837]

Shit, some of the more successful traps and snares are goddamn horrifying. 

 

Yea, shotgun shell landmines are one of my personal favorites I've used, and really wish would be added into the game eventually ,.

 

-snip

I wonder how often an ATF agent sits down and googles "shotgun shell landmine?"  I'm also not sure if FDNR sanctions any sort of explosive traps for the taking of mammals.   :huh:

 

DayZ isn't real, but your online security certainly is.  Might not be the best stuff to be publishing on a googleable resource.   I'm sure you wouldn't like the kind of attention that would bring.

Just a tip for personal security reasons. ;)

[boneboys 7988]

Children please...

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

I like your ideas, OP, I hope they all get read and implemented. I'm no hunter in RL but I love the outdoorsman style in Dayz. You made me hit the woods again, so far I've been focused on all things related to vehicles. Time to cross the Northern highway and go inland...

 

You talk a lot about tracking and hunting, what about resources you get from animals? How would you see it progress with the lard, pelts, bones, etc.? I wonder how many more applications they have, I like the idea of being completely on your own and never having to rely on anything looted from towns. I hope the devs think more about food and cooking, so that a devoted hunter is so much better nourished than a guy who grabs an occasional can and immediately runs to the NWAF.

 

And yes, I'm one of the players who might as well think to themselves "aww, sorry, baby elk, but I need to live", despite knowing it's it's just a game (probably this means I'm insane, but I like to pretend it's for reals when I play). It's quite obvious what you said and I hardly believe the topic got derailed so fast and for such a reason. I guess some people just really want to say something on the Internet.

[Zurvivalist 300]

You talk a lot about tracking and hunting, what about resources you get from animals? How would you see it progress with the lard, pelts, bones, etc.? 

 A few ideas I had would be dependant on other things eventually being added 

 

I'll list off a few for kicks , 

Starting with Antlers

- I would like to harvest Deer Antlers to make rattles To attract males closer for archery hunting 

-Elk and Deer antlers once harvest could be a cheap mans melee weapon ( same code as say the hay hook ) 

-Once carved they would make nice Improvised knife handles 

-The large elk antlers could be used in the crafting of improvised shelters, maybe as a type of upgrade 

 

 

Furs

I would like to be able to collect the furs off say 

Rabbits, foxes , sheep, bears ,wolves  for winter clothing 

 

Feathers are already in use for archery arrows, so that's good .. Just need Turkeys and some ambient birds 

 

Cow and deer leather could be used for the crafting of leather saddles once we have horses . 

 

Would add quivers to the leather making options , as well and better clothing and backpacks . Right now they are some of the worst gear that takes the most effort  to make .... 

You really should be able to make advanced versions of them on par with M65 jackets, and Military pants. 

 

Colors also need some attention... badly 

 

 

Head or at least antler mounts once bases or houses are implemented ( models already exist for wall mount and bear skin rug) 

Maybe even complete taxidermy mounts for decorations and decoys 

 

Guts, bones , blood and meat scraps , could be used as bear and wolf bait , 

Also later , pet food for companion dogs 

 

Mouflon ram horms could just be used as loud ass horns that could be heard for miles, to signal friends . 

 

Hedge hogs i guess could be thrown as zombie decoys ? 

lol 

 

 

Thats about all I can really think of at the moment 

 

 

lard for candles and soap. 

 

I would also like to see Biodiesel implemented as a primary means of gathering fuel for vehicles. 

Berries for Jam and jelly once recipies gets worked in 

 

 

Would also be nice to see a more realistic amount of meat come off of a large animal , 

For example you kill a cow , you get four large legs  That you could not fit into your inventory, would have to carry in your hands back to camp, that could then be chopped down into smaller steaks, for cooking.  Would take a group or a couple trips to lug all the meat back to a safe spot, and it would last much longer.  

The butcher knife could then be used to chop into smaller steaks, THe meat hammer to tenderise it for fast eating , and the other knives to make it into stews and such . 

Edited January 11, 2016 by J0nathan

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

Good ideas.

 

I also always thought "farming" infected a long time ago near for lard/bones/leather etc and I still think it would make a great addition although somewhat Macabre. 

 

I think that's a bit too dark for the devs though.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

[Etherious 907]

Hello there

 

Good ideas.

 

I also always thought "farming" infected a long time ago near for lard/bones/leather etc and I still think it would make a great addition although somewhat Macabre. 

 

I think that's a bit too dark for the devs though.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

Damn, Orlok, didn't realize you were so dark with your ideas.

 

[MrAerospace 87]

Brains can be used for tanning leather, and strangely enough, the standard rule of thumb is the brain of the animal is enough to tan it's own hide.

And if players want something warmer than leather, there could always be furskins from bears or sheep.

Edited January 11, 2016 by MrAerospace

[Zurvivalist 300]

Hello there

 

Good ideas.

 

I also always thought "farming" infected a long time ago near for lard/bones/leather etc and I still think it would make a great addition although somewhat Macabre. 

 

I think that's a bit too dark for the devs though.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

 Even if I have to wait till modding.. I will have my human flesh face mask , and human ear necklace . 

 

We should have always been able to harvest their rotten meat and bones . Was able to in the mod at least . THe zombie meat could i guess be used as some sort of bait or poison when force fed to someone . 

 

Forgot all about brain tanning . That would work very well . 

[Merc. 37]

Even if I have to wait till modding.. I will have my human flesh face mask , and human ear necklace . 

 

We should have always been able to harvest their rotten meat and bones . Was able to in the mod at least . THe zombie meat could i guess be used as some sort of bait or poison when force fed to someone . 

 

Forgot all about brain tanning . That would work very well .

I like all the original hunting ideas. Not sure about all the zombie thoughts though, even if it was in the mod. But that's just me.

I'm very interested to see how far the devs take specific aspects of the game, consider all the other aspects they want to include.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

You know what I'd like to see for hunting? 

 

I'd like to be able to throw food into one of those little feeding stands that are all over the place and sit in a deer stand, waiting for game. Much better than trying to hop out of a moving car and aim before the animals run off into the distance. On second thought, maybe I'm doing it wrong. Still. Baiting animals seems like it fits.

[Merc. 37]

You know what I'd like to see for hunting? 

 

I'd like to be able to throw food into one of those little feeding stands that are all over the place and sit in a deer stand, waiting for game. Much better than trying to hop out of a moving car and aim before the animals run off into the distance. On second thought, maybe I'm doing it wrong. Still. Baiting animals seems like it fits.

good idea

[ZomboWTF 527]

In an actual survival situation, I would have zero qualms with killing baby animals in order for me to survive. It is, after all, "me or them", plus, animals don't exactly have empathy/inspire empathy like human beings. Not including the fact that juvenile animals are extremely unlikely to survive without their parents. A mercy kill via bullet/arrow is almost infinitely preferable to starving to death.

 

Shit, some of the more successful traps and snares are goddamn horrifying. 

 

Killing people is different from killing animals.  If you can't differentiate between the two, then there is something wrong with the wiring in your brain.

 

Is  the "You should feel bad for killing baby animals" shtick coming from the guy that just murdered a dude and ate him? Really? Priorities, man.

 

As an aside, I fully understand that these are pixels, not real people or animals. 

 

If i was in a survival situation, killing baby cows, deer, whatever, would be no problem at all, i grew up thinking of these animals as food-still-living anyway

 

dogs, cats, or humans on the other hand... maybe humans, but definitely not dogs, at least not if i can avoid killing them

i think it would be pretty dangerous to meet a pack of wolves, but a pack of feral dogs? oh boy, you're in trouble, especially if these dogs grew up to be accustomed to firearms and have no fear whatsoever from humans, wolves at least aren't confronted with humans all the time, dogs are used to that and just as if not even more deadly

 

and come to think of it, would be funny as heck to see a pack of feral dogs with one or two yorkshire-terriers or chihuahuas in the bunch, i would laugh my ass off if i see someone get chased by that

 

nice post from the OP though, definitely would like to see hunting animals become more deep

Edited January 19, 2016 by Zombo

[S3V3N 1402]

What's that about Elks you mentioned, Jo? Are there elks in the game? I've only seen deer so far, but would love some moose or elk.

Later for camps it might be fun to be able to make trophies from the heads and hang them outsde or inside the base. That could also be done with human heads or zombies, so you'd see if who lives there is a cannibal, hunter, infected-killer or a badass, who mixes it all up. I'd definitely want tropies - if fishing gets expanded it would also be nice to have a little bit randomized fish sizes and a trophy option for them. They could be like calling cards for our bases to identify, who lives there and what they like doing.

 

I didn't read everything, but I suppose you guys already named tracking or some kind of indicators (e.g. trace near lakes, pointing the direction of the deer; bark eaten off young trees; broken shrubbery) in order to find out, if there are animals around - and what kind of animals there are. Boars would leave a track through shrubbery, while deer would eat bark and gather around waterholes. You're totally right that it is annoying to keep checking the same places without having a clue what brings out the animals or when they are there. In another thread I added time of day to one of the features for animal hunting. Deer will mostly come out and feed at night and are a bit more cautious during a full moon.

Edited January 19, 2016 by S3V3N

[TheDragon117 3]

I would like to see some changes made to the hunting. Having hunted my fair share in real life I have a bit of a problem with skinning and quartering an Elk with a stone knife in a field. 

 

Maybe some of these would be taking it a bit far, and might be unrealistic but for my ideal survival game I'd like to see some things like:

 

-I'd like to see the ability/need to field dress large game. Processing a Deer, Elk, or Cow shouldn't be a 5 second animation, so the need to get your game back to a safe place to work on this animal for say 2  minutes in game without eyes peering down on you in a field would be cool. Field dressing an animal could make it so you can slowly drag it, or maybe use a rope to tie it to a car or be able to load it into the  back of truck or cargo V3S.

Another thing I think would be great is to see is more crafting from animals. couple of examples-

-Large Hides and longs sticks could be used for small improvised shelters.

-Animal heads can be treated and used to make a hat/helmet with little protection but lots of warmth options. (cause who wouldn't want to wear a wolf or bear hat.)

-Bones, especially on larger animals can be used for a lot more then fishing hooks. I could see getting say X number of vertebra from an animal to make a fishing hooks but femurs could be used in place of    long sticks for some recipes, a simple improvised weapon/club. Also in cooking a bone can be split open for its marrow or thrown into a pot for flavoring.

-I'd like to see a lot more cooking recipes, making a steak but I think eating real meals would be nice. IE-throwing peppers tomatoes and meat into a stew counts for a bit of warmth, hydration, and food.

-Catching  and storing animals. Kind of stealing a a bit from the game The Forest, but being able to snare a rabbit without killing it, or maybe corral  cows into a fence and effectively lock them in and know  that you will have a source of food later would be great. Doing so could risk revealing that storage from like you said animal calls and such, maybe increase risk of predators attacking your base. Even  having to feed the animals with say plant matter from farming or vegetables to keep them healthy or complacent or risk them getting themselves out in search of food or dying and ruining your food source. 

-Fresh kills and stored meat should attract predators, like bears and wolves. a tent full of meat might bring a bear down on it that could ruin the tent. Storing it in something like a barrel could deter them or  having to hang food in a tree with a rope keeps it safe.

-Depending on how many predators scavengers they add you could have a cycle on the dead animals or left over guts from field dressing an animal telling you approximately how long its been dead. like bears or wolves mean its fresh, after they've had their fill a couple hours we're on to crows or buzzards picking at the remains, and flies and or other insects mean its been there for a while.

 

Like I said some of it may be well beyond constraints of the engine or time line, these are just things I think could add a lot of depth to the survival side of the game when it comes to hunting/animals.

Edited January 19, 2016 by TheDragon117