[Poll] Official servers 1pp only

[yazar8 584]

banana for sure

[pilgrim* 3514]

Yes mate, this early access post apocalyptic survival game is totally incomparable with this other early access post apocalyptic survival game that was inspired by it. I'm sure that there is absolutely no cross contamination between these two irreconcilably different player bases and any lessons learned during the development process of one have no relevance whatsoever for the other. Hicks know this well, his absolute refusal to engage with Gary is well warranted as any attempt at information transfer is utterly futile. 

 

(sorry B4GEL, I chose the banana)

 

Ahh, so that's why Doom3 had no 3pp view - I always wondered - I thought it was just easier to program.

[Kirby12352 67]

What if someone doesn't care so much about "immersion", or doesn't want an ultra hardcore, super intense experience? Maybe they just want to play a game a bit more casually, and there's nothing wrong with that. If people find a casual experience fun, it's no different from someone finding a hardcore experience fun, so I would appreciate it if these 1pp cultists would stop with these comments like "1pp is superior in each and every aspect, only 10 year old kids like playing 3pp". If people enjoy 1pp, that's fine, and if people enjoy 3pp, that's also fine. It's just a game, which is supposed to be fun, and if people find certain aspects fun, then that's totally fine, but quit shoving your opinions down other people's throats.

 

The more I read this thread, the less compelled I am to ever play on a 1pp server, if the people on them are gonna act so juvenile.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Kirby12352

[BeefBacon 1185]

No, you didn't buy a game with those features as active.

You bought a game with 3pp and 1pp camera features.

 

Also the moon is cheese, this supports my point because bacon.

Get it?

 

Lets try to preserve a shred of rationale to the attack on 3pp players please guys.

 

There were features from early versions of DayZ that are no longer in the game and may or may not be reintroduced. Just because 3pp has always been in that's no good reason for it to stay, especially given that the game in in alpha. Besides, my point was that just because everyone can do something that doesn't necessarily make it fair.

 

 

I'm amazed anyone could so completely misunderstand literally everything they read and say as you friend.

 

"People play 3pp for the same reason "HIGH LOOT, 24/7 DAY, INCREASED VEHICLE SPAWNS"

 

The name of the server has absolutely 0 relevance to the subject, which is camera restriction. Your standard juvenile pasting of everyone who disagrees with you as "13-year-olds" makes you sound just like every other internet-big-man out there, and detracts from your point (if you had one). Your point about how no game should be played any other way than how the developers originally meant it to be, no matter how you try to insert references to hacking to bolster your argument, shows a complete lack of understanding of the subject matter. For example i doubt that when they developed Arma2, BI designed it to one day support zombies - again YOUR logic is flawed since this popular aftermarket modification is the entire reason you have a game to make ill educated posts about in the first place.

 

"the survival crowd can play on their own servers if they want to. That'd be pretty shitty, right? It'd be kind of like buying Counter-Strike hoping for a competitive shooter, only to find that it's overrun with surf and deathrun."

 

Again no, it would be like buying counter-strike hoping for a competitive shooter, only to find out that you can play it exactly how you want and so can everyone else simply by choosing the correct server, since various tastes are catered for B)

 

You see try as you might with references to hacking and sweeping insults against most of the player base, you cannot turn this into a 1PP vs 3PP argument with me. I support both, and the VAST majority of players agree as demonstrated by all the rental servers being set by choice to 3PP. You can't say that 3PP is easier due to wall peeking etc, and in the same breath say it's harder due to people being able to wall peek you when you can't see them. But since this isn't a 1PP vs 3PP discussion it's all pretty meaningless anyway.

 

You may as well have left the post empty and just let your signature do the talking, since your post and sig contain a similar amount of actual content once all the posturing is removed. In a game founded on an alteration of another game, you are attacking anyone's desire to play it any differently to how you would like it played.. Is it sinking in yet? Choices are ok maybe? People can enjoy something without your permission? Diddums.

 

 

Right. So reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. That's okay.

 

People can play the game however they want. That's fine. If people want 3pp, that's fine. If people want Berezino deathmatch, that's fine. The devs also understand this, which is why there are minimal restrictions on gameplay. However, the devs have stated that 1pp is the way to go and as such may make efforts to steer people in that direction. If people don't want to play 1pp they don't have to, in the same way that if people would rather have a punch out in Elektro, they are free to. Turning official servers into 1pp servers would mean that newcomers are more likely to play 'vanilla' or how the devs like the game if they join an official server. I've no doubt that plenty of 3pp players have never even tried 1pp. Hell, I only played 1pp when I joined a hardcore server by accident and learned I quite like it.

 

The rant about 3pp? Sure, I'll give you that one. I like to play the game in a certain way, as do a lot of other people. Finding a populated 1pp server is difficult, despite the fact that so many people prefer 1pp. There's plenty of low-pop 1pp servers but I rarely see high-pop. As a result I play 3pp and don't contribute to 1pp populations. Other people do the same, so 1pp servers never grow. Sure that's partly my fault, but I don't really want to play low pop 1pp. As a result I don't have a choice in what server I play on. If I want 1pp I have to play low pop. If I want high pop I have to play 3pp. As I said before, I daresay many 3pp players have never played 1pp, or found the inability to wallpeek claustrophobic. If their first experience of DayZ was 1pp, they might be more inclined to play 1pp, rather than sticking solely to 3pp.

 

That's not to say I dislike 3pp, I just prefer 1pp. While I may have been obtuse I think I outlined the problems inherent in 3pp fairly well - problems recognised by the developers. I'd be in favour of some system that removes wall peeking while still allowing 3pp - that way everybody is happy. Being abrasive and dismissing it because 'the majority of players like to play that way' does nothing to solve the problem. 

[KenoSkir88 181]

The rant about 3pp? Sure, I'll give you that one. I like to play the game in a certain way, as do a lot of other people. Finding a populated 1pp server is difficult, despite the fact that so many people prefer 1pp. There's plenty of low-pop 1pp servers but I rarely see high-pop. As a result I play 3pp and don't contribute to 1pp populations. Other people do the same, so 1pp servers never grow. Sure that's partly my fault, but I don't really want to play low pop 1pp. As a result I don't have a choice in what server I play on. If I want 1pp I have to play low pop. If I want high pop I have to play 3pp. As I said before, I daresay many 3pp players have never played 1pp, or found the inability to wallpeek claustrophobic. If their first experience of DayZ was 1pp, they might be more inclined to play 1pp, rather than sticking solely to 3pp.

 

That mate, is real content. Pat on the back, although there are obvious reasons 1PP servers are empty you kinda avoided. Beanz anyway for talking seriously.

 

Right. So reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. That's okay.

 

This on the other hand, is an attempt to reclaim lost playground points. You tried to relate a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the subject earlier and i called you on it. That's not down to my comprehension. Beanz for progress tho.

[BeefBacon 1185]

That mate, is real content. Pat on the back, although there are obvious reasons 1PP servers are empty you kinda avoided. Beanz anyway for talking seriously.

 

 

This on the other hand, is an attempt to reclaim lost playground points. You tried to relate a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the subject earlier and i called you on it. That's not down to my comprehension. Beanz for progress tho.

 

Nonsense. I reiterated a previous point and elaborated for clarity as you had clearly either ignored or missed it. You adopted, and continue to adopt a condescending tone - something I'm sure you'll agree doesn't suit someone of your immeasurable wit. I just made the mistake of emulating it.

Edited October 23, 2015 by BeefBacon

[Killawife 599]

I like it but voted for Banana.

[B4GEL 175]

(sorry B4GEL, I chose the banana)

 

Ahh, so that's why Doom3 had no 3pp view - I always wondered - I thought it was just easier to program.

Doom 3 does have 3pp, no one plays it because it sucks.

[KenoSkir88 181]

Nonsense.

 

:rolleyes: We're done here..

[pilgrim* 3514]

Doom 3 does have 3pp, no one plays it because it sucks.

 

Ok I understand now

Doom3 had 3pp so Rust is more of a Doom-like

than Doom but DayZ has 3pp so it's less ?

 

- well I didn't vote but it would have been for the banana

 

is the end of the thread soon ?

Edited October 23, 2015 by pilgrim

[Roger_Shrubz 19]

Could you quote for me the part where i said you don't have the right to speak? What i said is that you have an elitist overtone to your communication that doesn't have any basis. You hint that people who do not play your way are somehow less skilled, or even worth less in general than those who do. You make out with your language that 3PP is somehow easier, while also complaining that others have had an unfair advantage against you due to wall peeking etc. The fundamental flaw in your case being that everyone on a 3PP server has the same set of advantages against each other, meaning it is neither easier nor harder on anyone unless one party chooses not to use the advantage presented yet still plays on a 3PP server. I'd also be interested to see you quote where i was in some way uncivil, rather than factual. You also stated that 3PP is for "people who don't want to be nice" which is absolutely false.

 

With that out of the way, i re-iterate :

 

Can anyone deliver a serious reason to change ALL public servers to 1PP rather than just have an even split?

 

 

Well correction, I mean freedom of constuctive input, I have not put down or slated 3rd person atall, I do play 3rd person aswell dont forget.

 

I will say it clear for all the 3rd person players out there, when you play on a 1st person server for example you would get complete different outcome for survival, horror, action & interactions.

 

IF DayZ did go 1st person, the statistics on how players loot & patrol the map would be interesting, thats all................maybe it works for the better.... maybe for the worse, but I find this a interesting topic as I am all about thrills.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Roger_Shrubz

[St. Jimmy 1631]

I'll end this thread:

3rd person view:

- Optional easy mode since the first Arma

Btw if anyone here suddenly starts to suggest "fixing" 3PP with a solution like fourth wall, then check out Warthunder. The first person view is also ruined because it doesn't work in all the situations. It has the same effect as the current watching up limit in DayZ. It tried to "fix" 3PP but it only broke 1PP.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

There were features from early versions of DayZ that are no longer in the game and may or may not be reintroduced. Just because 3pp has always been in that's no good reason for it to stay, especially given that the game in in alpha. Besides, my point was that just because everyone can do something that doesn't necessarily make it fair.

 

Yes you're correct, although the devs have again and again expressed their intention to preserve 3pp.  I would also consider 3pp to be likely to stay given the input of effort that has gone into refining it, and removal would produce little positive gain.

 

At the risk of digging into semantic and further derailing, if everyone has access to the same opportunity, that is in essence completely fair.  It may be morally wrong, or perhaps of dubious profit, but indeed fair.  It enters a grey zone when the community wills it unso, and certainly is not correct practice if there are rules, say for a certain event like CS;go tournaments excluding skywalking, but i would argue the negative to your point, to use another example of the game 'screencheat' where looking at your opponents screen to identify their position is a game mechanic.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Didn't read whole thread.

 

Heard the whole argument before.

 

It's a fact that DayZ is meant to be played in 1PP.

 

That's just it.

 

3PP is broken bullshit left over from the mod that the KIDS learned to exploit and now can't do without because they lack guts and lack imagination.

 

If you really think 3PP is more immersive you truly are the minority.

 

If you abuse 3PP and it makes you feel safer, you are the majority.

 

You should feel uneasy and restricted in what you do in DayZ.

 

Everything should feel oppressive and if something has to be made MORE difficult because monitors can't repro vision characteristics, then so be it!

 

That is a WAY better option for DayZ than drone vision.

 

Watching Toporec's last video made me fucking ill.

 

You are all wall peaking in 3PP and it's the lamest most challenge and fun defeating thing you can do.

 

Congratulations, you fail at fun.

 

I would bet good money that the most vocal of the 3PP proponents are -30 and/or are PvP focused.

Edited October 24, 2015 by BioHaze

[Deathlove 2286]

I would bet good money that the most vocal of the 3PP proponents are -30 and/or are PvP focused.

Im mainly in it for the PVE the PVP comes second and im quite vocal with keeping it as a choice for official servers.

 

I just don't think its fair to make all the official servers FPS only. It should be half and half. I would like to feel safe knowing that im on a legit server when i play rather than give my self to the mercy of admins in unofficial servers just to enjoy 3PP. I also shouldn't be forced to pay extra just to have a server that offers 3PP as an option just because i dont want to deal with hackers or unsavory fellows in general.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

How about they make all official servers whatever true Hardcore mode they come up with?

 

I'm fond of extreme cold, more contaminated zones, low health on start, and FPP only.

[emuthreat 2837]

Ah stop taking everything so personally. You sound silly blaming 3rd person for the lack of interaction you obviously experience. I play both kinds of server (i just try not to be an elitist complainer) depending how i feel. Your point is void, since the option you like is easily available to you. When i play 3rd person i just stay aware of the extra tactical opportunities available to my opponents, and remain well aware that the same options are available to me should i require them. If you don't like 3PP don't play it, you don't need to railroad others into playing your way because you're butt-hurt about getting wasted by people who understand available tactics better than you. Funny guy aintcha :rolleyes:

 

An even split between 1PP and 3PP on official servers is the only realistic option for change that doesn't ruin one persons fun to support another.

I think you might be misunderstanding what this game is supposed to be when it is finished.  Because of this lengthy early access period, the dominant playstyles have gravitated towards a long form run-and-gun shooter.  While it is based on an ARMA mod, and has had community input since before it even existed, it is being made by a development team who has every right to build and administer the game however they damn-well choose.  Of course, their goal to make money off the game might be a compelling reason to not overtly alienate a large portion of their audience; but the game is theirs to make, as is the decision on what the vanilla experience should look and feel like.  You seem to believe that you are being fair and just in defending people's right to play 3pp, because everyone is entitled to their own opinions and preferences. In reality, there is often the right way, and the wrong way to do things; and that means that a group might not always get what they want.

 

How would you feel about a group of doctors trying to defend their freedom to decide individually if hand washing is always necessary; or a contractor's freedom to decide for himself how important it is that your floors are level, or fast food workers' rights to use however little or much ketchup or mustard, as they see fit?

 

I'll try not to be too pompous in explaining this:  3pp has exploits that allow a person to see more than the location of their avatar's eyes would allow, and is not as immersive as 1pp.  These are not my own personal, humble, opinions; they are irrefutable facts, and nothing anybody says or does will be able to change those two basic facts.  I know it is a contentious subject, mired in personal preferences and opinions, but anyone who says that 3pp isn't exploitable is a liar.  You took the position that the exploit is equally useful to everyone in the server, and is therefore fair.  And I'm sure you could say that laying on a rooftop and scanning the city below is equally fair, because anyone can get onto a rooftop.  But in that moment, a person on the rooftop is able to exploit an advantage that is not available to other players, and by seeing without the possibility of being seen, the fairness of an encounter has been precluded by the use of 3pp.

 

1pp is the generally accepted standard for competitive shooters, presumably for the lack of ESP afforded by 3pp corner peeking.  If you want fair gameplay, 3pp is simply not an option.  There is no getting around this fact; much in the same way that if I want my ribeye steak and mushrooms to be cooked in the juices of the steak, I have to use a frying pan instead of a George Foreman grill--which by design, discards all the juices during the cooking process.

 

That being said, I enjoy 3pp, and play it most often; but I prefer 1pp, and in my opinion, it is the better of the two.  I understand that some people get motion sickness from 1pp, and I fully realize the limitations of 1pp with relation to player stances, and the difficulty in seeing around/over obstacles.  Assuming that the finished product allows you some better options for being able to see out windows, I would prefer the vanilla DayZ experience to be 1pp.  IMHO, 1pp should be the standard mode, not "hardcore," and 3pp should be "casual" mode; complete with an "I Agree" button, acknowledging that  fair gameplay may be harmed by the use of 3pp camera perspective.

 

I think it is pretty safe to assume that DayZ will turn out however Brian Hicks and the rest of the team thinks it should, and we would be wise to just trust that they'll do a good job.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

  3pp has exploits that allow a person to see more than the location of their avatar's eyes would allow, and is not as immersive as 1pp.  These are not my own personal, humble, opinions; they are irrefutable facts, and nothing anybody says or does will be able to change those two basic facts.

..//.

 

 

OK thee are "not your opinions" I understand - they are (lol) "facts"

Can you fit these "facts "is into games like - say - Minecraft and Chess....

so I can uderstand why the hell 1pp is more IMMERSIVE than 3pp..... 

 

In "FACT" 3pp is MORE IMMERSIVE than 1pp and always HAS been

an it is JUST exactly as fair...

and the HISTORY of the WORLD proves this, and ALL games prove this. And that's a Scientific Fact.

 

 

Why do you think the USArmy is flying DRONES instead of using human pilots ???  (because it's an exploit?  ...)

 

please choose the banana, folks

Soon there wont BE any "official" servers anyway :)

 

xx

[BeefBacon 1185]

Yes you're correct, although the devs have again and again expressed their intention to preserve 3pp.  I would also consider 3pp to be likely to stay given the input of effort that has gone into refining it, and removal would produce little positive gain.

 

At the risk of digging into semantic and further derailing, if everyone has access to the same opportunity, that is in essence completely fair.  It may be morally wrong, or perhaps of dubious profit, but indeed fair.  It enters a grey zone when the community wills it unso, and certainly is not correct practice if there are rules, say for a certain event like CS;go tournaments excluding skywalking, but i would argue the negative to your point, to use another example of the game 'screencheat' where looking at your opponents screen to identify their position is a game mechanic.

 Hm. I can respect that. I suppose it comes down to notions of chivalry rather than fairness. If people are given an advantage then they're going to use it even if it's an advantage that is, I would argue, detrimental to gameplay. I think many people, like myself, would much rather not peek around corners - but we have to because everyone else does it. As I think I mentioned before, I'd very much be in favour of a system that maintains 3pp, but negates exploits inherent in 3pp. A system whereby things that cannot be seen by the player in 1pp are occluded in 3pp has been posted repeatedly on these forums (probably in this very thread, given the subject matter) and that sounds like a pretty great idea, provided it's reliable (not blocking the player's view when nothing is in the way, for example). This is also why (one of the reasons, anyway) there have been changes to the camera - an attempt to reduce the exploitability of 3pp. Its effectiveness is limited, but it's an attempt to address the issue, which I appreciate.

[Tactical Nuke 47]

Forced 1PP on all official servers is a great idea. It's the way the game is supposed to be played. I personally have more fun playing 1PP and the Poll shows I'm in the majority, the only reason I don't play 1PP as much as I'd like to is that there are very few 1PP servers that are populated and sadly the majority of my friends enjoy the comfort blanket of 3PP.

 

Take that comfort blanket away already!

[q.S Sachiel 470]

I'll re-iterate as the long campaign spanning years may have worn down my resillience: wall of text to follow

I do enjoy 1pp.  I play Arma3 SC and frequently am forced into using 3pp to combat obvious ledge peekers and window shoppers particularly in urban areas.  That being said, when i know i'm being watched by someone in 3pp it does drive me to use subterfuge ie: baulking/baiting fire to reduce enemy rounds available and exploit any topographic advantage or opportunity I may have, identifying blind spots and the like.

I'll use 3pp for roaming (and yes, it lets me see more than i 'should' but always go 1pp in urban/clautrophobic environments to reduce the jittery lag state between ironsight and hipfire.  I do acknowledge that 1pp servers are dead empty and a proportion of population would like to play on them, but are unwilling to take the step to get their mates in or wait in an empty server for hours on end to populate it, instead opting to play 1/3pp servers where the population is there.

 

BI needs to offer incentive to bulk up the 1pp servers, although i would really like to see this as positive incentive, not the alternative.

Also I feel uneasy in BI watering down commitments of server hosts to provide an across the board offering of servers.  I play on private servers sometimes, but for the most part I dislike private hosts.  I may be tarring many with the same brush unfairly but I feel most server operators are dodgy at best, or power hungry at worst. I haven't had much interaction with them in DayZ, but when I do it's generally negative, and some of those openly discussing their afilliation on this forum do tend to rub me the wrong way, in a way i have come to identify with their 'type' (sorry good hosts).  Previous experiences with other games has developed this distrust mostly however.

 

The recent spate of 'kick on join' servers people have been discussing stands as an example of this.  Obviously there is more work to be done, but i feel that if all tastes can be accomodated for, and the public official servers are there for the people, then they should at least have a 30-70 split to 1pp if they want to encourage it, but 100% i feel is just too much.  Yes there are more public servers and yes these servers are protected in some fashion from abuse, but it's a responsive protection and I feel that there is great potential to damage or destroy people's experiences over an issue that I feel is mostly a non-issue due to adequate supply being over-ridden by free-market behavior.  A 100% standpoint would also appear to be contrary to the 'hands off approach to customer experience' that DayZ so openly boasts.

 

@Beef: yes I'd say chivalry for the most part.  You can wipe the floor with me on 360 if you look at my screen, great: you have the skills and twitch to put me down when you know where I am, but should I be isolated from your information gathering my tactics and strategems would knock you out of the park every day (third person hypothetical).  I totally agree.  I ultimately don't have a rebuttal to the abuse argument because it is quite irrefutable i feel, although as a generally legitimate player (not immune to the dark tendrils of opportunity) i'd still like to enjoy a casual 3pp experience on public / official servers.  But I'll play anywhere without stupid pre-programmed white text, ad spam and hands off and unabusive admins.

 

One possible solution that I haven't seen yet is: increase bullet penetration/damage.  If you know where he(or she) is, but can't get him because of his/her cover use, why not reach out and touch them by blowing open a hole in that wall (figuratively, although geo-mod would make my pants oh so wet).  This may not be too popular with certain camps of course, as it would either require an unrealistic alteration of ballistics from current firearms, or an increase in high power military kit.  Still, I feel it may take away the advantage (even greater prevalence of grenades or some indirect fire may be a similar solution once the throw is fixed).

 

Concealment issues such as blinding gear (flashbangs/strobe) or smoke / improvised concealment devices like a small explosive and a bag of flour could provide a partial solution in that you're concealed not covered, and the player is not at a direct threat/disadvantage to employing static,or even mobile deployment.

 

If you wanted to really fuck with people (and it would also affect people not exploiting) you could have all 3pp live servers have a timer for 'incativity'(camping) where a cough or loud indicator noise is made occasionally to betray the persons behavior.  This may just drive people into more defensible position (usually rooftops anyway) but would at least act as a niggle in the back of their mind, distracting them somewhat.  But i digress, this is not a suggestions thread.  I'm still against 100% but am willing to succeed server share to the proles so that we, the ubermensch of 3pp shall not be deposed of our throne (yes let them eat cake) /sarcastic jab

Edited October 24, 2015 by q.S Sachiel

[KenoSkir88 181]

- a small explosive and a bag of flour -

 

Hehe, might wanna try something other than flour or you're going to end up with a very large explosion :D

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Yes, the stuff is quite flammable, as are most fine particulate matter.  That said it should be adequate to distract the domiciled dud as a distraction of only a second or two is generally sufficient to tip the scales if you have adequate cover/concealment along escape route.

 

But yeah, don't try that at home kids (or throwing flour at the fire definitely don't do that), and also from what i've heard, don't smoke cigarettes at the asian colour parties (where they basically throw coloured flour by the handfull in large crowds) as several people allegedly lost all their face hair from igniting particulates.

[KenoSkir88 181]

- don't smoke cigarettes at the asian colour parties -

 

Haha, yeah that'll leave some colour for weeks to come :D

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

/open sarcasm

 

When I think of a scary zombie game I think of a game where I can see over the walls to know where the zombies are at all times and easily walk around them all.

 

When I think of an "authentic" in game view point I think of having an out of body experience where I am looking from the view of my astral projection/guardian angel floating behind me.

 

When I think of a realistic gun fight I think about using my astral projection to see around large opaque structures so I know exactly when to ambush my adversary.

 

I think someone who masters a strategy tied to an exploit well should always win versus someone who uses actual strategy and skill not bound to an exploit.

 

I think you should be able to send your drone around a whole room so you can quickly and easily see where all the loot is because why don't I spawn with an AS-50 with infinite ammo and an infrared scope?

 

I think I should be able to lay face down on a rooftop and still see the entire town from my drone.

 

/close sarcasm

 

 

How many of you trolling with the ground swimming exploit are 3PP proponents?

 

:facepalm: