Status Report - 14 Aug 2015

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Stamina Q3 but it's soon Q4 already so you meant Q4? I'll also say make stamina punishing but you could introduce "friend spawn" type of thing so you could choose some spawn places. Let's say divide coast in 6 areas you could choose to spawn so you could get somewhere close to your friend when you start playing the game. Otherwise people will always suicide spawn.

 

- I'll add that playing and getting mods installed in DayZ wasn't really hard. It was actually 99% because of beta branch usage and Arma 2/OA <-> Steam version issues

- Dat vehicle physics/suspension :o

- I'm not interested with bases (walls like you say) but everything inside like generator sounds interesting

- Soft skills sounds nice

- Player KoS, yeah it's horrible that about 50% of the interactions go like "hey buddy" and he starts to shoot or engage you instantly, or says couple mocking words to feel like a big boy and bang. Good to hear that you're maybe bringing radios as starting gear. Hopefully you can make people to trust each other more and reasons to not shoot rather than shoot everyone without any punishment.

 

/edited a lot.

Edited August 15, 2015 by St. Jimmy

[HaseDesTodes 315]

my 5 cents:

"We need to support an easy way for survivors to "refresh" large base areas rather than have to interact with each of them"

 

the best way i can think of is: if an object*  gets refreshed/placed all objects* within the proximity get refreshed

the actual range needs to be balanced, also whether only the player refresh count, or if any secondary refresh can refresh other objects (might also cause a loop, so best not)

*  tents, walls, towers, backpacks, mines, traps, tripwires, etc.... but not things like the can of beans on the ground

 

 

it's propably been said elsewhere already, but i'd like to mention once again:

both gasoline and diesel engines, don't need a battery to run(!) as long as the electric generator is functional (not even that is needed for some old diesel engines).

so if you start an engine and remove the battery it should keep running

 

diesel engine (any mechanic correct me if im wrong):

the glow plugs are used to heat up the fuel air mixture in the pistions when the engine itself is still cold, so it will start faster.

diesel engines only need fuel, compression and heat to ignite

means (and im not to sure about this) if you use the starter motor long enough, the engine temperature should rise and the motor should start eventually.

also means, if a glowplug is missing, there is a hole in the pistion cover, which does not allow the fuel air mixture to get compressed there will be no ignition in that piston which leads to a reduced engine power

if the glowplug is just non functional (no heating up) the piston should still be working

 

gasoline engine:

needs functional sparkplugs for an ignition in each piston

so each non functional/ missing sparkplug will reduce the engine power (if to many are missing the engine will keep going out, but with lets say 5 pistons, one or two not functional, should still work)

 

 

 

soft skills:
imho you should get a random character (farmer, fisher, policeman, (solider), worker) for each respawn (so no picking it in the main menu), with a slightly randomized skillset (which you cant see) and some custom clothing/items from which you can tell what your talents are most likely

as you mentioned, everyone should be able to do everything, some are just better at things

but still lets say you have a player that spawned as a farmer, but had to patch up a few people in his life (let's say 10 hours real time), he should be better at medicing than that lucky bambi that just spawnd as a medic.

 

i think whatr also might work well, to keep people play their roles more, is to make them evolve faster in thier role, than in everything outside, means: the worker levels up faster in cafting things, while the farmer levels faster in planting things

 

an other thing that would most likely come along well with soft skills, is the chance of failing certain actions.

eg. you want to take someones blood? nice, you just have to but a needle in this vein (hard enough for some doctors already)

failing should cost time, and in some cases recources, because you might also break some things (as mentioned in the speech)

whith soft skills you could now influence those chances, alongside with some other factors like stress (eg. someone is shooting at you (supressive fire), or you are in pain) phisical condition (things get harder if you are actually sick, or hypo/hyperthermic)

 

i know this might make things a lot harder and more random, but with some balancing i imagine it to become just fine

Edited August 15, 2015 by Hasi

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

INFECTED HORDES AS DYNAMIC EVENTS! That sounds too awesome for words. 

 

I cannot wait for 0.59 Experimental. The new vehicles look great.

Edited August 15, 2015 by ColdAtrophy

[mitor 176]

Nice presention, the one thing i didn't like was that fresh spawns essentially start with 100% combat effectiveness - this just means that PvPers won't really have more of a reason to fear death, only survivors do.

 

Stuff like reloading speed isn't a player skill, so i don't see anything wrong with a soft skill for it. Imo it's unlikely to make a huge difference, anyway.

 

 

edit: and i wonder how base raiding and offline time will be handled, that's hard to balance.

 

Agreed. No doubts soft skills need to be realistic, but they should also somewhat influence combat. Otherwise I don't think they will matter a lot for people. They have somewhat contradicted themselves, as things like bandaging yourself faster does influence combat, so I don't see a reason why you cannot gain certain skill reloading a weapon that has been yours for a while, or maybe steadier aim after sprinting...

 

By the way, another visual aspect that I would add to this system is physical fitness. Characters could spawn well, not fat, but somewhat not fit at all, and with time develop muscles (Realistically!) and all that, which could pair with the gain of stamina. I think you get the idea, I am not an english native speaker so I cannot express accurately what I mean. 

Edited August 15, 2015 by Mitor

[chompster 171]

So.. is there a full full version of this video? seems to cut off at the end.

[xCAPx 349]

yep, very nice things are mentioned in this presentation.
I'm very exited for the Soft Skills too - it's all about the balance.
The basebuilding description sounds very good, and I'm happy that Mr. Hicks doesn't want skyscraper bases in this game :thumbsup:
Infected hordes as server events are awesome. Can't wait for the next half year. It will be fantasic! Thank you! :beans:

[Wili 156]

Nice to hear new things about basebuilding, the only thing I didn't like it about basebuilding is the military basebuilding type using Hesco barriers, I'm not a fan of military equipment on a game like Dayz, I would prefer bases made of metal scraps, car hoods and so on, more like in the movie Waterworld, Mad Max, or in games like Fallout.

Also walls made of tree logs would be nice.

[Thumper1999 48]

the new vehicles are really cool cant wait to drive one.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

I'm wondering what's gonna happen when someone find your base on public hive server and change server to another to move into your base and log back.

You'll get bounced out. I think they're playing with this already as I've been bounced out of certain locations sporadically in the last 2-3 builds.

 

Stamina, sounds super cool.

 

Soft Skills, digging it.

 

Base Building, not so sure. Whats the 'construction kit' about? There seems to be some debate about if you build a camp piece by piece or if you build an 'improvised base' and its a pre-built joint. I'm guessing based on what Hicks said that you build it piece by piece. If you built a prefabbed joint, that would be super silly. I do dig that Hicks said he doesn't like impossible builds (six story huts). Big relief. Also, when Brina mentioned a Z space ceiling cap, that surely means you build piece by piece right.

 

As far as Hicks issue with refreshing your base, wouldn't it make sense to add a trigger once an enclosure of walls was built? Step inside the trigger, bam...7 more days or etc. The only caveat would be if you didn't build a full perimeter of wall because a trigger couldn't be assigned because after all it is a radius. But honestly, who would build walls with out using them as a base enclosure. Doesn't make sense imo.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Weyland Yutani

[Coheed_IV 381]

Why do we need bases? What benefit do they provide us? I didn't hear any reason besides the inferred "sandbox" or "other games have it".

I'm not saying I dislike it, I'm just trying to understand the fundamental gameplay reason for it. This is a survival game how does this base help me survive?

Safe water stock pile? maybe, if wells become extremely unsafe with disease.

Shelter? No, there is shelter everywhere (unlike the mod)

Storage (food, tools)? Only in a larger player group, I think. Hicks said "aggressive" in context to guarding loot. I can't see the base becoming a benefit until your part of a larger group.

Achievement? Seems likely

I just don't see base building as fundamentally "DayZ", it was not a big part of the mod. Not that I think it's terrible, it just needs to have a place or need in gameplay. And the need was not "sold" in the presentation.

[mitor 176]

Why do we need bases? What benefit do they provide us? I didn't hear any reason besides the inferred "sandbox" or "other games have it".

I'm not saying I dislike it, I'm just trying to understand the fundamental gameplay reason for it. This is a survival game how does this base help me survive?

Safe water stock pile? maybe, if wells become extremely unsafe with disease.

Shelter? No, there is shelter everywhere (unlike the mod)

Storage (food, tools)? Only in a larger player group, I think. Hicks said "aggressive" in context to guarding loot. I can't see the base becoming a benefit until your part of a larger group.

Achievement? Seems likely

I just don't see base building as fundamentally "DayZ", it was not a big part of the mod. Not that I think it's terrible, it just needs to have a place or need in gameplay. And the need was not "sold" in the presentation.

 

Because base building is popular.

 

I think it should be limited a lot. Large clans (Which seem to be the ones that are going to be able to build large bases) ruin to a certain extent the experience, particularly for themselves. Hoarding weapons, food and all that simply makes the survival and looting aspects of the game trivial. We well see how it behaves in combination with CLE.

[Zephyr- 1]

Give the soft skills diminishing returns so players cannot grind them, but also still gain when they do actions because they actually need to. A cap per day is harsh.

Those diminishing returns could be a counter that wears off as time goes by, so the gain for doing the action increases. Players that are actually using it as intended and not grinding gain full exp for said skill. While players who intend to grind receive a penalty for it. 

Gain should not be halted for everyone because some might grind. Also on that note for diminishing returns, while you don't want players to grind out skills, they shouldn't be fully punished for wanting to practice said skill. 

The idea would be that players who are using the skills normally will usually gain full or high exp unless they end up doing it more based on their current situation. While those who are grinding (practicing) gain less and less as they continue. This way you can actually gain more exp if you'd like to, but if you want to just sit and grind it's going to be tedious, boring, and not earn you very much for doing so compared to someone just doing it normally. 

An example is someone who played for a full day gained 100 exp using the skill normal, while a player who grinded the entire day gained 120. Due to diminishing returns, grinding would be a huge waste of time. 20 points over 24 hours is hardly worth the grinding. Though with the right breaks and time spent it would be possible to earn that little extra.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Zephyr-

[eno 1049]

 

Progressive stamina for lifespan, I'm not crazy about. It takes months/years of hard focused work to build up a persons athleticism....

 

 

 

Yeah but keep in mind I can grow a pumpkin in 5 minutes or less. Marathon physique- meh... 3 hours in game time tops on a pure diet of canned tuna and pumpkin slices. 

 

Now then- to transpose that into real life. That would definitely make more time for gaming!

[Coheed_IV 381]

Because base building is popular.

Does not compute, how does a base help me survive? This is a game, what benefit do I gain by spending time building it?

 

It's great that this is popular, but that is not a reason I would spend loads of time putting it up.

 

A cap per day is harsh.

For most games that would be right, but I think it's perfect for DayZ. It has to be based on time alive or it falls apart IMO. I really liked what was in soft skills presentation. :thumbsup:

 

but if you want to just sit and grind it's going to be tedious, boring, and not earn you very much for doing so compared to someone just doing it normally. 

People would do it, and the game would be boing for them. Don't put a potentially boring mechanic in a game.

 

I don't think we're sure about what it is capped on (in-game character day, real-time 24). I would think in-game time?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[Zhang Liao 16]

I do no care what anyone says. Brian Hicks comment about not wanting the people on the internet yelling at him more than they normally do is the best part of the entire video!

It was epic level awesome!

Edited August 16, 2015 by Zhang Liao

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Why do we need bases? What benefit do they provide us? I didn't hear any reason besides the inferred "sandbox" or "other games have it".

I'm not saying I dislike it, I'm just trying to understand the fundamental gameplay reason for it. This is a survival game how does this base help me survive?

Safe water stock pile? maybe, if wells become extremely unsafe with disease.

Shelter? No, there is shelter everywhere (unlike the mod)

Storage (food, tools)? Only in a larger player group, I think. Hicks said "aggressive" in context to guarding loot. I can't see the base becoming a benefit until your part of a larger group.

Achievement? Seems likely

I just don't see base building as fundamentally "DayZ", it was not a big part of the mod. Not that I think it's terrible, it just needs to have a place or need in gameplay. And the need was not "sold" in the presentation.

We don't "need" basebuilding , but do we "need" m4s or AUG's either ? The options to basebuilding should be in any open world sandbox environment simply because that's what humans do: they create , do , and use things that aren't necesssry for survival simply because they like to or it makes them feel more comfortable ... If all the work is done we WILL find something else to do , wether it be make our own shanty somewhere so we don't have to work at living In an undead city or making a massive fortress inside a city to take it over , I beleive the outcome will be amazing both for those that build and don't build : imagine finding a big fortress and slowly but surely breaking through the back wall where no one looks , one night you finally break in and steal away into the night with weapons from their armory ! I personally loved base building in dayz aftermath and think that they had a good model , it was never easy to break into someone's base especially one with large level 4 walls, it took many sledgehammers and sometimes a few hours to break into a well fortified base... Dayz should be the exact way if not harder !

[freethink 984]

I love the way zones are evolving

It was originally this

http://i.imgur.com/Bvov6gf.jpg

which was way too arbitrary imo. Now it's looking like prison island or the bases at zelen/pavlovo can be part of zone 1 despite being geographically quite far away. I am so cool with that. Absolutely no reason for zones to be contiguous.

[VVarhead 185]

 

 

soft skills:

imho you should get a random character (farmer, fisher, policeman, (solider), worker) for each respawn (so no picking it in the main menu), with a slightly randomized skillset (which you cant see) and some custom clothing/items from which you can tell what your talents are most likely

as you mentioned, everyone should be able to do everything, some are just better at things

but still lets say you have a player that spawned as a farmer, but had to patch up a few people in his life (let's say 10 hours real time), he should be better at medicing than that lucky bambi that just spawnd as a medic.

 

 

 

This would be great, awesome idea!

[stinkenheim 249]

I love the way zones are evolving

It was originally this

http://i.imgur.com/Bvov6gf.jpg

which was way too arbitrary imo. Now it's looking like prison island or the bases at zelen/pavlovo can be part of zone 1 despite being geographically quite far away. I am so cool with that. Absolutely no reason for zones to be contiguous.

That was never anything more than an image to illustrate and clarify the concept of zones, it was never going to look anything like that in the final implementation.

I really enjoyed thins presentation, very interesting and exciting ideas. The idea of zombie hordes as a dynamic event is just awesome. Imagine walking through the hills around zelenogorsk and stumbling across a shambling horse of the undead... Going to need more than an axe to deal with then.

[grimsonfart 49]

I don't get the RTX video, they are talkingabout Q1, Q2, Q3 etc, then they say release is estimated around mid-2k16. If so they are very late on their goals in the video unless they are talking about 2k16 goals...

[blackberrygoo 1416]

I don't get the RTX video, they are talkingabout Q1, Q2, Q3 etc, then they say release is estimated around mid-2k16. If so they are very late on their goals in the video unless they are talking about 2k16 goals...

FULL release of the game (meaning 1.0) will be around mid 2016 which makes sense because we are only about a year away from that (making the whole development process 2.5 years which is right on with the 2-3 year figure the devs gave us at the beginning of alpha). But if anything they have only been delayed by a month or two because of persistence and the CLEs stubbornness .

[Zephyr- 1]

For most games that would be right, but I think it's perfect for DayZ. It has to be based on time alive or it falls apart IMO. I really liked what was in soft skills presentation. :thumbsup:

 

People would do it, and the game would be boing for them. Don't put a potentially boring mechanic in a game.

 

I don't think we're sure about what it is capped on (in-game character day, real-time 24). I would think in-game time?

Based on time alive? That'd be impossible given the time frames in which people play. Not to mention it wouldn't matter if their is a cap per day. I could go on and grind for x minutes and get the cap and then just get off. While someone who is actually playing gets nothing because a cap applied for grinders. 

People would do it? (Example) So if in 24 real time hours you can gain 100 exp using a skill normally and getting full exp for it. Then in 24 hours you can gain 120 exp if you were to grind the entire 24 hours. You're telling me people are going to spend 24 hours for 20 exp? Less than 1 exp an hour. While on top of it all you could still get that extra exp playing normal. 

In-game time would be the opposite of stopping grinders. That means you could gain exp faster for staying on longer in a real day... aka grinding. Unless it stops when you got offline, which would hurt non grinders even more and allow the grinders to grind. 

Lol.

[Coheed_IV 381]

We don't "need" basebuilding , but do we "need" m4s or AUG's either ? The options to basebuilding should be in any open world sandbox environment simply because that's what humans do: they create , do , and use things that aren't necesssry for survival simply because they like to or it makes them feel more comfortable ...

The assumption of putting advanced base building in game because it is "popular" or because "that's what human do" is ridiculous.

 

The Devs aren't just throwing things in game and hoping for the best.

 

Breaking this down to understand benefits must be done to understand how to improve upon.

 

So I will try to answer my own question. What are the benefits of advanced base building?

 

Each storage should have an advantage and disadvantage:

Ammo box keeps ammo from breaking down. The underground stash can hide something with little chance of being stolen, but it's small and damp I assume. The barrel can house liquid, can craft colored items, also is easy to hide. Tents should keep things dry, hold large numbers, but hard to hide.

 

So the advanced base is for large size items, helicopters, vehicles, large vehicle parts, tires. Theses things cant be hidden easily. So even though its not hidden, it will be safer in a base. Bases will work better with a larger group of players working cooperatively.

 

So I think to improve this (coop & large item storage). What the base will need more of, is a reason for players to be at the base for longer time frames, which will lead to more interactions and emergence. Right now it would be just "building it" or "repairing it", and most of that task is away from the base finding materials.

 

Something like running a generator for a long period gets you something that cant be made or found in any other way. That is a task that keeps you there. Attracts others (interactions). And could potentially make something you need.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[Coheed_IV 381]

Based on time alive? That'd be impossible given the time frames in which people play. Not to mention it wouldn't matter if their is a cap per day. I could go on and grind for x minutes and get the cap and then just get off. While someone who is actually playing gets nothing because a cap applied for grinders. 

People would do it? (Example) So if in 24 real time hours you can gain 100 exp using a skill normally and getting full exp for it. Then in 24 hours you can gain 120 exp if you were to grind the entire 24 hours. You're telling me people are going to spend 24 hours for 20 exp? Less than 1 exp an hour. While on top of it all you could still get that extra exp playing normal. 

In-game time would be the opposite of stopping grinders. That means you could gain exp faster for staying on longer in a real day... aka grinding. Unless it stops when you got offline, which would hurt non grinders even more and allow the grinders to grind. 

Lol.

Wow, that's very grindy. :P  I wasn't suggesting anything really, hadn't thought about it enough. I was confused on what your post was trying to suggest and point out the devs didn't specify either. 

 

I'm just pointing out that anytime someone is saying "that wont be fair for some players" this usually leads to grinding. And exp grinding is being avoided in many games in development now, which I applaud. :thumbsup: Seems the DayZ devs feel that way too.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[Zephyr- 1]

Wow, that's very grindy. :P  I wasn't suggesting anything really, hadn't thought about it enough. I was confused on what your post was trying to suggest and point out the devs didn't specify either. 

 

I'm just pointing out that anytime someone is saying "that wont be fair for some players" this usually leads to grinding. And exp grinding is being avoided in many games in development now, which I applaud. :thumbsup: Seems the DayZ devs feel that way too.

There are better ways of handling grinding than just applying a cap to everyone who plays. 

Players who aren't trying to abuse the system by grinding, are having this penalty handed out because players may grind it. 

The opposite is also the same. What if someone has the time or would like to play for 2 days straight. They are penalized for doing so because people are not allowed to grind, or really play too much, lol. So they'd end up playing all that time and getting nothing more for it because there is a cap on exp for play time. 

Why penalize everyone? 

Since it is a game there are some things that have to be balanced out so that people can play on at least somewhat even terms without having to dedicate all your time to games or a particular game. 

Which is quite possible with something like or similar to the suggestion I stated. That is fair for everyone. I don't see the difficulty in making it fair for everyone especially with this game and it's style of play. Grinding is effectively stopped because of diminishing returns (especially in a game where you won't just throw away supplies or waste time so you need more supplies for nearly nothing) but no one will feel like they are halted because they still can gain. 

Technically it would be possible to grind, but the cost far exceeds the gain. This also allows the players that actually have more time to play, to feel rewarded for it. Instead of penalized because you spend a lot of time playing. 

Outside of that people will still complain because that is what people do, at least the minority who use the forums anyway. But that is not the majority of people who play.