Vision nerfed yet again?!

[-Gews- 7443]

Seriously?

 

Vision nerfed yet again in 0.57 EXP. Character's zoomed vision is now nearly the same as ARMA 2's unzoomed vision. 

 

Here's how the character vision (minFov) has evolved:

 

DayZ 0.42 = 0.25 (same as ARMA 2)

DayZ 0.44 = 0.375 (same as ARMA 3)

DayZ 0.55 = 0.525

DayZ 0.56 = 0.500

DayZ 0.57 = 0.65 (this is ridiculous!)

 

2.6x less zoom than we started the alpha with. For comparison character's initFov in ARMA 2 is 0.7. So, now there's almost no zoom, characters can barely see things in the distance, this ruins one of the great things about DayZ/ARMA which is the realistic scale of things.

 

I don't get it... the only point of this zoom is to try to better represent human vision. Default zoom should be set to a level that reflects this. Take a rangefinder and go observe some people at different measured distances, based on this set a minFov in the game which seems about right. If not, then there may as well be no zoom at all (which is almost the case now... just another 30% reduction and this RMB zoom is all gone!)

 

 

Oh, and now also deliberately inconsistent with the iron sights since 0.55... 25% more zoom when aiming at someone. Why? In most arcade games they have no secondary character zoom and they aren't trying to be "realistic" so the guns often get extra zoom. Well, in DayZ we do have an extra zoom and there is no need for these two to be different... if I'm using that zoom, I'm looking at something specific in the distance! I want max detail! Whether I'm aiming at them or not! 

 

It should be the same zoom between iron sights and character. They are both using the same pair of eyes, no? (again.... as in ARMA 2, ARMA 3....)

 

I just don't get it. What's the point of this? Was fine in 0.54, then tinkering started... now character is half blind... I would like my character to be able to spot and engage people at realistic distances. That's one of the greatest things about the large maps and ARMA mechanics.

Feedback tracker issue: http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=25019

Edited May 30, 2015 by Gews

[Heatofbattle 49]

Seriously? I had a hard time seeing things in the distance ever since 0.55. This is just ridiculous.

[-Gews- 7443]

Seriously? I had a hard time seeing things in the distance ever since 0.55. This is just ridiculous.

Good thing is now the hunting scope, PU and ACOG magnify about right... ha, ha 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I gave beans because this is a good subject that needs some serious thinking through by the devs.

 

I'm not sure what the best solution is but some level of authenticity should be strove towards.

[hemmo 55]

Well, it gets alot harder to KOS people so... thats why they probaly are doing it! And deserved!

[scriptfactory 620]

Is this being done for performance reasons?

[-Gews- 7443]

Is this being done for performance reasons?

 

No

[Fortismo 0]

Would this help performance though?

[gannon46 788]

well i know my eyes have no magnification like zoom if i could i wouldn't need binoculars or scopes or anything of that nature i could just set the FOV selector thats on my chest from birth and see the whites of a mans eyes from 800m away. now after my smartass remark i have to say i can see this as a plus from a player interaction stand point you see something move you know its a person but you don't know what they have or are they armed so you get in position and you look at him from regular sight you can't see much then you hit the mouse button and like that know everything oh he's carrying this and that and you did it without the help of optics which IMO is bullshit. now without superhuman zoom you might have to get closer or have proper optics to find out what said person is carrying same goes for recon of an area or town/city you can go in there with the zoom in game and know what they hell is there hazard wise all without optics. i think its a fix in the right direction it adds more need for proper tools as well as add more oh shit moments from not seeing said hazards in areas or miscalculating what someones has weapon/gear wise. hopefully a happy medium can be found though so everyone can be at least get along.

Edited May 30, 2015 by gannon46

[Rags! 1966]

Odd. When I look through the ironsights of my own guns, the objects that I'm shooting at don't magically get any bigger. 

 

My eye doesn't have built in zoom. Why would your character? That's the negative aspect about irons...no zoom. 

[Evil Minion 943]

My eye doesn't have built in zoom. Why would your character?

As compensation for the rendering distance of objects. In real life you can spots thing from further away. In DayZ the zoom replaces taking a closer look as looking more concentrated won't magically show items otherwise not rendered.

[8bit_Survivor 93]

My vote is for iron sights and character zoom should be the same. Or no zoom at all, although I think the zoom is to simulate you focusing on an area or specific target.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

How exactly does zooming in compare to human eyes focusing? If they want to do it right, when you right click the mouse, it should sharpen whatever you're looking at, not zoom in...

Really, am I the only one who thinks that? Force AA on some level to blur things in your peripheral vision and ~50 meters out, right click to sharpen.

If people can't run DayZ because of forced AA, then they need to spend some money upgrading. Seems pretty simple to me.

[-Gews- 7443]

How exactly does zooming in compare to human eyes focusing?

 

It doesn't. Think about it.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Odd. When I look through the ironsights of my own guns, the objects that I'm shooting at don't magically get any bigger. 

 

My eye doesn't have built in zoom. Why would your character? That's the negative aspect about irons...no zoom. 

 

 

As compensation for the rendering distance of objects. In real life you can spots thing from further away. In DayZ the zoom replaces taking a closer look as looking more concentrated won't magically show items otherwise not rendered.

 

You can indeed spot things from further away. You cannot, however, magically enhance your vision so you can see things you cannot.

 

Take, for instance, a person at about 150 meters. That person will appear to be about the size of an American 10 cent piece. Could you see them? Yep. Could you see them clearly? Nope

 

Or, look at a building from a respectable distance. You can clearly see it as a building, but you probably can't differentiate between doors, windows, etc,much less someone standing in a window.

 

I would be happy if we had no "zoom" whatsoever, or, after reading it, what Sir Grimey Rick said above. If you want to be able to see things farther away, use binocs, a telescope, or a sight for a firearm. 

[-Gews- 7443]

I would be happy if we had no "zoom" whatsoever, or, after reading it, what Sir Grimey Rick said above. If you want to be able to see things farther away, use binocs, a telescope, or a sight for a firearm. 

 

Bahaha, no zoom? Tell me, how far away is this survivor?

 

[Whyherro123 2283]

Probably between 150-200 meters. I dunno, don't have a rangefinder glued to my face, but you can make out the trunk, legs, and arms of the person, while the facial features are obscured. Also, what is up with that guys posture? 

 

Secondly, what does this have to do with entirely-unrealistic-eyeball-zoom? 

[8bit_Survivor 93]

It doesn't rick. Just postulating on why it is there in the first place. I play with AA and Post. Love the blur on peripheral when running :)

[Coheed_IV 381]

This is a big part of arma and the mod, and I've always liked it. But, I don't really think it's needed in Standalone. I bet it is phased out at some point (seems already phased out). Or designated off the default control scheme (-+ only), and close to experimentals current zoom.

It basically feels like many console games analog zoom now.

Though I do agree this depreciates arma/dayz amazing game world, you don't find the scale in many games. This takes away from viewing it all the time.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[-Gews- 7443]

Probably between 150-200 meters. I dunno, don't have a rangefinder glued to my face, but you can make out the trunk, legs, and arms of the person, while the facial features are obscured. Also, what is up with that guys posture?

100 meters.

 

Secondly, what does this have to do with entirely-unrealistic-eyeball-zoom?

I don't see how you can say the zoom is "unrealistic". There's no other way to simulate human vision on a monitor. You either get too low FOV or too low resolution. Calling the zoom "unrealistic" is like saying the inventory screen is unrealistic because there's no floating holograph in real life. I'd rather my character can see details an appropriate distance, which is why BISIm put this feature into their military training simulators in the first place.

Also, given this ...

This is one of the primary reasons I play on 3PP servers. IRL, all of my senses would be working to provide me information before an attack. I would be listening, smelling, looking, hell, even pheromones would be involved.

... I should think you understand the game has to give us certain features to compensate for the fact it's trying to present an authentic, detailed world through a 1080p monitor and headphones.

[freethink 984]

I don't think we should have the zoom at all.

[Coheed_IV 381]

Yeah, as always realism has two sides with games. I agree, it's there to produce real life vision, and I think it works pretty well.

But, is it really needed in DayZ? I'm on the fence. Arma couldn't be without it, but maybe DayZ might be more interesting without it, forcing closer encounters and optic value.

Many of the sim roots are going to be tampered with, I'm sure. I'll be interesting to see if it's worth it.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

Seriously?

 

Vision nerfed yet again in 0.57 EXP. Character's zoomed vision is now nearly the same as ARMA 2's unzoomed vision. 

 

Here's how the character vision (minFov) has evolved:

 

DayZ 0.42 = 0.25 (same as ARMA 2)

DayZ 0.44 = 0.375 (same as ARMA 3)

DayZ 0.55 = 0.525

DayZ 0.56 = 0.500

DayZ 0.57 = 0.65 (this is ridiculous!)

 

2.6x less zoom than we started the alpha with. For comparison character's initFov in ARMA 2 is 0.7. So, now there's almost no zoom, characters can barely see things in the distance, this ruins one of the great things about DayZ/ARMA which is the realistic scale of things.

 

I don't get it... the only point of this zoom is to try to better represent human vision. Default zoom should be set to a level that reflects this. Take a rangefinder and go observe some people at different measured distances, based on this set a minFov in the game which seems about right. If not, then there may as well be no zoom at all (which is almost the case now... just another 30% reduction and this RMB zoom is all gone!)

 

 

Oh, and now also deliberately inconsistent with the iron sights since 0.55... 25% more zoom when aiming at someone. Why? In most arcade games they have no secondary character zoom and they aren't trying to be "realistic" so the guns often get extra zoom. Well, in DayZ we do have an extra zoom and there is no need for these two to be different... if I'm using that zoom, I'm looking at something specific in the distance! I want max detail! Whether I'm aiming at them or not! 

 

It should be the same zoom between iron sights and character. They are both using the same pair of eyes, no? (again.... as in ARMA 2, ARMA 3....)

 

I just don't get it. What's the point of this? Was fine in 0.54, then tinkering started... now character is half blind... I would like my character to be able to spot and engage people at realistic distances. That's one of the greatest things about the large maps and ARMA mechanics.

Feedback tracker issue: http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=25019

 

The point is to experiment. The game is in development - *now* is the time for us to do such things.

I understand if this upsets you, but it is exactly what you should expect.

[-Gews- 7443]

The point is to experiment. The game is in development - *now* is the time for us to do such things.

I understand if this upsets you, but it is exactly what you should expect.

Yes, but so far it seems like this experimentation has all gone one way... now is also the time for feedback. Someone should take out a rangefinder, sit on a hill and make some notes on the details and apparent size of objects at different ranges...

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

No one discouraged feedback, I was answering his frustration and confusion as to why these variables have been changed frequently.